WWI Digest 760 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Wings over Yugoslavia by mgoodwin@ricochet.net 2) Re: Beardmore colour by Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton 3) RE: Beardmore color by "Rob" 4) Albatros G.IIIs over Macedonia by mgoodwin@ricochet.net 5) Re: WWI in Asia? by "Sandy Adam" 6) RE: excommuincation and Sadism by "Denest, Michael J" 7) Re: WW I in color by Suvoroff@aol.com 8) 3D models by JimAlley@aol.com 9) Re: WWI in Asia? by TPTPUMPER@aol.com 10) RE: WWII He-111 Thingie by "Denest, Michael J" 11) Re: 11-11-18 by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 12) Re: Roland CII part 1 by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 13) Humor Warning! Not List Related! by "Denest, Michael J" 14) Re: Fokker Dr1 by Patrick Padovan 15) Re: Roland CII part 1 by "Tom Werner Hansen" 16) Re: WW I in color by Geoff Smith 17) RE: Beardmore color by Geoff Smith 18) Re: Scale debates by Patrick Padovan 19) Bleriot XI by REATON@ccmail.dsccc.com 20) Roland by Pedro Nuno Soares 21) Re: Bleriot XI by Charles Hart 22) the bridge back by KarrArt@aol.com 23) Re: 11-11-18 by KarrArt@aol.com 24) Re: WW I in color by KarrArt@aol.com 25) Re: excommuincation and Sadism by KarrArt@aol.com 26) Re: 11-11-18 by KarrArt@aol.com 27) Re: 11-11-18 by KarrArt@aol.com 28) Re: Bleriot XI by "John Glaser" 29) Re: Udet's D.VII Stripes by Bob Pearson 30) Udet's Hawk-in Krakow by KarrArt@aol.com 31) RE: Bleriot XI by Shane Weier 32) RE: Bleriot XI by Charles Hart ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 20:47:20 -0800 From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net To: wwi Subject: Wings over Yugoslavia Message-ID: <346934D8.1D8A@ricochet.net> Who wanted to know about air war over Yugoslavia? I have the first part (at least) of a series of articles on the Serbian Air Force in vol. 8 of C&C. Maybe list members could cough up the other parts. Cheers, Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:41:44 -0800 From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton To: wwi Subject: Re: Beardmore colour Message-ID: <346A76F8.20C8@ConnectorSystems.co.nz> Joey Valenciano wrote: > > At 03:18 PM 11/11/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >If you have a non- metal engine you could paint with electrically > >conducting paint and then electroplate it. Is something like this used to= > > I thought of this too as soon as I read Aidrian's post. > > Where can one get such paint? Model railway stores - I use a product called Electrofix, which comes from Carrs in England. Otherwise try the paint used to repair demister elements for the rear window on your car. Cheers Aidrian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 00:48:29 +0000 From: "Rob" To: wwi Subject: RE: Beardmore color Message-ID: <199711120756.CAA00860@mcfeely.concentric.net> Electroplating? Flash evaporating? Conductive paint? Some guys will go to any length to use plastic. Why not just cut the plastic cylinders and valve gear detail off and substitute copper tube cylinders made using the technique I described in Chandelle. Then remount the plastic valve gear. Making the cylinders is the easiest part of scratchbuilding an engine: snip, file, sand, and you are done. Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 21:50:03 -0800 From: mgoodwin@ricochet.net To: wwi Subject: Albatros G.IIIs over Macedonia Message-ID: <3469438B.205D@ricochet.net> Anyone have details on Albatros G.IIIs possibly serving with Bogol 2(?) on the Macedonian front in 1917 or anything in general on the air war over Macedonia? TIA, Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:49:08 -0000 From: "Sandy Adam" To: Subject: Re: WWI in Asia? Message-ID: <199711121118.LAA28213@beryl.sol.co.uk> > It is often forgotten that the Imperial Japanese Navy was a major > contributor to Allied naval strength, particularly in the hunt for > raiders. A Japanese cruiser force was stationed in the Mediterranean > for most of the war. It did much to bottle up the Goeben in Turkish > waters. > In Willie Fry's "Air of Battle" which I mentioned recently he is transferred to Egypt right at the close of hostilities and the troop ships from the toe of Italy are escorted by four Japanese destroyers. He comments on one knocking off part of its mastage on leaving harbour at night. The troops are astonshed to find by first light the following day, that overnight, the whole thing has been repaired as good as new. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:10:10 -0500 From: "Denest, Michael J" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: excommuincation and Sadism Message-ID: <21A9C368581DD011986600805FEABAD4E3001C@xch-phl-01.he.boeing.com> Ira, I think you need a vacation. Mike > ---------- > From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com[SMTP:TPTPUMPER@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 1997 7:52 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: excommuincation and Sadism > > In a message dated 97-11-11 18:07:43 EST, you write: > > > (F-14s > > eeeeeekkkkkk- not a manifestation but an infestation) > > Maybe a man-infestation? Sorry . . . :^* > > Aww, slap some more photo-wretch hicky-doodles on the > ratch-magratch! > Those judges will cream their jeans!! Right, Robert? > > Have Fun!! > > IRA > > wemustallbuildjetswemustallbuildjetswemustallbuildjetswealljetsmustbui > ldjetsal > lmust > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:50:03 -0500 (EST) From: Suvoroff@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I in color Message-ID: <971112085002_1422478906@mrin54.mail.aol.com> What's wrong with gray? Yours, James D. Gray ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:03:12 -0500 (EST) From: JimAlley@aol.com To: wwi Subject: 3D models Message-ID: <971112090312_326389750@mrin79> I received the following request via email. I can't help the folks, but I thought someone here on the list might have an idea. If so, please contact Mr. Ryan directly. Jim Alley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: frd@enternet.com.au (Stephen Ryan) To: JimAlley@aol.com Dear Jim, I'm not sure whether you can classify this a comment, its more of a request for help. We are a design company involved in the design of a museum aircraft gallery in Canberra, Australia. We use 3 dimensional computer models for the design of the exhibition and we are faced with the prospect of creating, in 3 dimensions, all the aircraft that are to be displayed. We thought that perhaps someone out there in the aircraft enthusiast world may have already done this. The aircraft we require are as follows: Avro Anson Mk 1 Lockheed Hudson Mitsubishi A6M2 Zero Curtiss P-40 Kittyhawk Bristol Beaufort Bomber CAC Wirraway (this may be difficult as it is a little known Australian trainer) Dehavilland Mosquito Hawker Sea Fury P-51 Mustang We would really appreciate your help, even if its only to point us in the right direction Regards Stephen Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:06:09 -0500 (EST) From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: WWI in Asia? Message-ID: <971112090607_1658786840@mrin53.mail.aol.com> Hi Joey, Riordan, and guys! There was an article in Aviation History Magazine a few years back on a flier in this conflict in China. If interested I can dig it out and report in more detail or send copies. Have Fun!! IRA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 07:59:12 -0500 From: "Denest, Michael J" To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: WWII He-111 Thingie Message-ID: <21A9C368581DD011986600805FEABAD4E30019@xch-phl-01.he.boeing.com> We'll need a very large umbrella. Mike > ---------- > From: KarrArt@aol.com[SMTP:KarrArt@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 1997 4:39 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: WWII He-111 Thingie > > In a message dated 97-11-11 06:55:44 EST, ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au > writes: > > << You'll love the kit. I got one as well, and even though it might > make me a candidate for excommunication, I also highly recommend the > Modelmaster series Me-110.....it's a gem! > You might as well be under the ban with Joey and me.....and the > He-219 fans 80) > > > Cheers, > > Mick. > >> > > At great risk, I join you ! > Robert > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:52:40 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: 11-11-18 Message-ID: <199711121452.JAA21948@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 01:30 PM 11/11/97 -0500, KarrArt@aol.com wrote: >It's approaching 11:00AM here in California and when the hour arrives I shall >have a moment of remembrance. Going to school in the late 50's through the >60's ( high school class 1970), every year at the appropriate time we had a >moment of silence- this practice stopped about 1966.Well, dammit, I for one >still carried on.I had a grandfather and an uncle who had served in the >trenches- I wasn't about to forget.According to a newspaper article I read >yesterday there are still 9,600 WW I veterans alive in the U.S. and they >deserve a little thanks. >Robert Here, here. In our County in Pennsylvania, they changed the day of the remembrance to Sunday. I went at 11;00 yesterday to the WWI Memorial. No one was there. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:12:43 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Roland CII part 1 Message-ID: <199711121512.KAA22074@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 06:43 PM 11/11/97 -0500, Pedro Nuno Soares wrote: > >One last note: I've been using a lot of information on building this kit = >from an article in the french mag "Avions" that Matt sent me. The = >article is pretty well detailed and I've translated it to english. So if = >anyone cares to have a copy of my crappy translation just let me know = >and I'll e-mail it. Pedro I'd like a copy if possible Mike Muth 271 Prospect St. East Stroudsburg, Pa. 18301 USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:36:04 -0500 From: "Denest, Michael J" To: "'WW1 Mailing list'" Subject: Humor Warning! Not List Related! Message-ID: <21A9C368581DD011986600805FEABAD4E30020@xch-phl-01.he.boeing.com> Don't flame me, I'm only the messenger! The following should reduce spelling errors on this mailing list. Subject: New English The European Commission have just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5-year phase-in plan that would be known as "EuroEnglish": In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favor of the "k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with the "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter. In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"'s in the language is disgraceful, and they should go away. By the 4th yar, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!! And zen ve vil take over ze vorld!!! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:40:49 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Fokker Dr1 Message-ID: Greetings All: My 2 cents on finishing Fokkers: I paint the model with an enamel CDL color, let dry thoroughly, and then use an acryllic wash to do the streaking. This works well for me, especially on the wheels, as gravity does a good job of seeing to it that they dry with light-colored centers and dark-colored outer rims, just like the real thing. Also, one has the option of removing the acryllic and doing it over again, without disturbing the enamel CDL. This is sort of "the same, but opposite" of Joey's method. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 17:08:34 +0100 From: "Tom Werner Hansen" To: Subject: Re: Roland CII part 1 Message-ID: <199711121951.UAA11017@d1o211.telia.com> Pedro. Hang on to the files and drawings you used for this project. I'll probably rebuild an old Airfix Roland CII that I put together years ago, and finished in a totally wrong shade of blue, I have to admit. I'll use the information I have picked up about stripping old paint, and if you could beam me up the most useful of the drawings you used, I would be grateful. I'll probably have a go at fish-scales too. If I blow it, what the heck, it was only an old dust-collector anyway. I'll file your comments about your progress and refer to them when that time comes. I have a couple of other projects to finish first. Tom ---------- > From: Pedro Nuno Soares > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Roland CII part 1 > Date: 12. november 1997 00:43 > > Hi again gang, > > As promised I will now report on my finding while trying to build the = > venerable Airfix kit of the Roland CII. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:51:28 -0500 From: Geoff Smith To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: WW I in color Message-ID: <199711121451_MC2-27EF-4767@compuserve.com> >What's wrong with gray? >Yours, >James D. Gray Well it should be spelt with an "e" for a start, as in "rote". Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:51:25 -0500 From: Geoff Smith To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: RE: Beardmore color Message-ID: <199711121451_MC2-27EF-4766@compuserve.com> Rob stated what should have been blindingly obvious: >Electroplating? Flash evaporating? Conductive paint? Some guys = will go to any length to use plastic. Why not just cut the = plastic cylinders and valve gear detail off and substitute copper = tube cylinders made using the technique I described in Chandelle. = Then remount the plastic valve gear. Making the cylinders is the = easiest part of scratchbuilding an engine: snip, file, sand, and you = are done.< ROTFL Suppose you think that's clever, don't you? Lot's of people go out of the= ir way to help a guy in distress and you come along and make it all simple. = Thanks for the instant cure for this particular case of AMS. We just got carried away. Regards, Geoff =2E ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 12:21:59 -0800 (PST) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Scale debates Message-ID: Dear Sandy: I hope I qualify as a non-bigot! You pose an interesting question. I do build in both scales, and have finished kits in both 1/72 and 1/48. Honestly, though, I did start with 1/72 and still do prefer it to 1/48, but I don't have any "them or us" feelings about either scale. I'd say that given truly comparable kits in both scales, it would probably take me about the same amount of time. But usually, I find I have to add more scratch details to 1/72 that aren't provided by the kitmakers, and that takes me more time to build. On the other hand, seams and so forth are just plain bigger on 1/48 kits, and so they take longer to fill and sand, etc. Also, a bigger surface takes longer to paint, though it's no more difficult to paint. On the other hand, painting intricate details such as engines or interiors, is more difficult in a smaller scale. But then again, its also more visible in a larger scale, so it has to be done with just as much care in 1/48. I'd say that when one considers all of these aspects, it comes down to being about equally time-consuming, frustrating, and delightfully satisfying, maddening, and fun. The only real difference, for me, is just a matter of taste. I grew up with Revell and Airfix 1/72 kits, so I'm oriented toward that scale as being the "natural" feel. But since so many planes I wanted to build weren't available, I've since crossed over and added a number of 1/48, and found that in some ways things were easier, in other ways, harder, but that mostly I still use the same skills. I spend about the same amount of time, but this is based on comparing apples and oranges, as I don't think I've ever seen a 1/72 scale kit and a 1/48 scale kit that had the exact same degree of details and parts built in. I don't know if this helps to answer your question at all, but its the most honest answer I can give. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 16:27:17 -0600 From: REATON@ccmail.dsccc.com To: wwi Subject: Bleriot XI Message-ID: <00151203.3370@ccmail.dsccc.com> Well I thought I'd try a pre/early war kit. I found a beautiful vac kit in 1/72 at the local shop. Expensive but the brass alone is worth the price. One problem though, I want to build it. Do any of you learned gentlemen out there have drawings that might assist me in placing all those brass bits together in something like a true Bleriot XI flying machine? (the kit directions are a tad lacking) TIA, and Regards from a rainy and cold central Texas, Richard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 22:24:42 +0100 From: Pedro Nuno Soares To: "'ww1 modeling list'" Subject: Roland Message-ID: <01BCEFB9.C8347300@fei1-p11.telepac.pt> Hi gang. Since some of you showed interest in getting the copy of the "avions" = translation I'll be sending it to those who requested in the course of = the next days. Glad I can help Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:49:37 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Bleriot XI Message-ID: > Well I thought I'd try a pre/early war kit. I found a beautiful vac > kit in 1/72 at the local shop. Expensive but the brass alone is worth > the price. One problem though, I want to build it. > > Do any of you learned gentlemen out there have drawings that might > assist me in placing all those brass bits together in something like a > true Bleriot XI flying machine? (the kit directions are a tad lacking) > > TIA, and Regards from a rainy and cold central Texas, > > Richard Sounds like the Phoenix/Blue Rider kit, it was expensive. There is a book from the Smithsonian on their restoration of a Bleriot monoplane. While not extensive with its drawings, there are a lot of photos that should help your project. This book is still in print (I think). In Front Range Colorado its sunny and 30 degrees, at least last night's snow is melted off of the roads. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 18:14:20 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: the bridge back Message-ID: <971112181348_-21713741@mrin85.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-12 00:18:16 EST, shingend@ix.netcom.com writes: << I don't mind not sniffing, but if I can't open the boxes and fondle my someday-builds in my non-modelling time I'm going to start civil disobediance, petitions, and protests! -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com >> In response to this and Shane's wise words on long running jokes and off topic posts, I shall attempt to build a bridge back to the land of our common interests-WW I model building.Please allow a bit of nostalgia here.Yesterday my wife was looking at some bulletin-board message thingy and came across a posting by some old timer modeler who wanted to know if anyone remembered the SMELL that hit one's nose upon opening an old Aurora kit. I immediately knew what he was writing about- Auroras smelled nothing like Revell or Airfix or any other brand.If the kit was, oh, say, the Fokker D VII, the first 2 impressions were the dark shiny green plastic and then the smell. I don't know if it came from the packaging or their exact plastic formula- what ever it was, it was distinct. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 18:17:04 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: 11-11-18 Message-ID: <971112181700_1079963744@mrin43.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-12 15:21:41 EST, bucky@postoffice.ptd.net writes: << In our County in Pennsylvania, they changed the day of the remembrance to Sunday. I went at 11;00 yesterday to the WWI Memorial. No one was there. Mike Muth >> That's sad- even as "Veterans Day" here in the States, the holiday still needs to be kept on 11-11 for a little context Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 18:18:12 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: WW I in color Message-ID: <971112181810_1845518261@mrin38> In a message dated 97-11-12 09:08:52 EST, Suvoroff@aol.com writes: << What's wrong with gray? Yours, James D. Gray >> Nothing at all! (I have relatives with the name) Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 18:21:49 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: excommuincation and Sadism Message-ID: <971112182148_1903636663@mrin51.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-12 08:13:27 EST, Michael.Denest@PHL.Boeing.com writes: << Ira, I think you need a vacation. Mike >> Yes- perhaps a nice quiet place- maybe build a model or something- you know you've always wanted to scratchbuild that HP 0/1800 triplane bomber in 1/32 Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 18:24:37 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: 11-11-18 Message-ID: <971112182437_-2111118536@mrin41.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-12 04:11:20 EST, michel.lefort@ping.be writes: << On the other hand, what makes me more confident is that people, among themselves, are not too tempted by such insane discourses. Sorry if I have bothered you all, but I had to let off some steam. Regards. >> Michel- no bother here- it's good to hear what people are thinking about in places other than where one lives! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 18:38:36 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: 11-11-18 Message-ID: <971112183835_-1072594836@mrin53.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-12 01:48:38 EST, GeoffSmith@compuserve.com writes: << Quite right, in the UK the vast majority still wear a red poppy in the da= ys >> One little encouraging sign I noticed around my part of the world is that a few more people were seen wearing the red poppy Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 17:51:08 -0600 From: "John Glaser" To: Subject: Re: Bleriot XI Message-ID: <19971112235213.AAA19577@johng> Richard: I have a book that might help: Scale Model Aircraft Drawings, World War I, published by Air Age. Don't know about the accuracy of the drawings but it does have two pages on the Bleriot XI. I'd be happy to copy and send the pages if you want to send me your snail mail address off list. - John P.S. I got the book in rainy cold south Texas (Houston.) ---------- > From: REATON@ccmail.dsccc.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Bleriot XI > Date: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 4:33 PM > > Well I thought I'd try a pre/early war kit. I found a beautiful vac > kit in 1/72 at the local shop. Expensive but the brass alone is worth > the price. One problem though, I want to build it. > > Do any of you learned gentlemen out there have drawings that might > assist me in placing all those brass bits together in something like a > true Bleriot XI flying machine? (the kit directions are a tad lacking) > > TIA, and Regards from a rainy and cold central Texas, > > Richard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:56:13 -0800 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Re: Udet's D.VII Stripes Message-ID: <23561389202988@KAIEN.COM> Kevin Barrett wrote, > Bob, you wrote: >> >> Somewhere in one of the WW1 journals is a letter to the editor that says >> exactly what you just mentioned. Dan Abbott wrote a long reply to it. I >> don't recall exactly what was said but I believe it was something about >> being an illusion due to the angle of the camera, the wing, distance etc. I >> am on my way out, but will check to see if I can find the reply later. >> >> Regards, >> Bob > Were you able to find this reference/explanation? It would have to be a > good one! --------------- Kevin, I am sending my reply to the list, as I think the others may wish to see this as well. Here is the relevant letter and answer in Windsock 6/3. First is the letter from J Wheeler of New York. . . . ". . . . I have only one critical comment and that concerns a clanger that's been dropped constantly in the 40 years that I've been following WW1 aviation, namely Udet's candy-striped D.VII. Dan Abbott's illustration (WS4/4:21) shows perfectly regular stripes across the upper wing which is commensurate with all the other artist's renderings that I'vre seen over the years. But if you'll turn to page 24 of the same issue of WI and the photo of Udet and his D.VII, it's very apparent that the stripes assume an increasingly radical angle as they proceed from starboard to port. I have no other photos to substantiate this but it seems that the practice of 'break up an aiming point through illusion' would support my logic as it was a belief in wide use at the time. As an aside, I would like to know Mr. Abbott's logic for his belief that Udet's D.VII carried the candy stripes on the lower surface of the upper wing." - J Wheeler To which Dan Abbott replied . . . "I believe Mr.Wheeler has been mislead by the perspective of the photograph on pg.24 of vol 4/4. THere are two vanishing points in the photo: 1. centre point about Ltn Udet's navel and . . 2. above the horizon in regard to the upper wing stripes. The diagonal stripes being complicated by a curved surface compounds the problem for the observer. The stripes are parallel and are on both surfaces. This is substantiated by a German newspaper of July 30 1918. The Air Force Museum has a copy of this photo. I had also thought it odd that it was only depicted on the upper surface, when its predecessor, the Fok.Dr.I, had it on both surfaces." - Dan Abbott * * If anyone is able to track down this photo I for one would love to see it. It must be assumed that there is a typo in the Wheeler letter regarding the stripes being on the bottom of the upper wing. I'm not sure if this helps any, but at least it shows my memory is still intact. Regards, Bob Pearson nb: MPM W.29 Strut time nl. DSA again np: W.12s ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:05:07 -0500 (EST) From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Udet's Hawk-in Krakow Message-ID: <971112190506_411979584@mrin51.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-11-12 02:04:59 EST, ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au writes: << And Udet's Hawk still exists! That's it! That's it *again*! Can we get pics? Can we get details? Where where where?? Pleeeeease let it be true. Desperate ooops!....Sorry! Mick. >> It was one of the Berlin museum airplanes that turned up in the Polish museum that keeps spitting out interesting WWI types such as the Taube, Albatros-Siemans etc. There's a photo in the book Taube- Dove of War taken several years ago and the Hawk is in the backgraound.Also, the plane has shown up in various WW I publications, always in the background! Some where I have read that there are plans to restore it in the distant future. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:10:14 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: RE: Bleriot XI Message-ID: <199711130019.KAA11158@mimmon.mim.com.au> Richard asks: > > Do any of you learned gentlemen out there have drawings that > might > > assist me in placing all those brass bits together in something > like a > > true Bleriot XI flying machine? (the kit directions are a tad > lacking) > > > Charles replies: > Sounds like the Phoenix/Blue Rider kit, it was expensive. There is a >book from the Smithsonian on their restoration of a Bleriot monoplane. >While not extensive with its drawings, there are a lot of photos that >should help your project. This book is still in print (I think). The BR kit came out in about 1990, but there is also a newer one by AJP, one of those astonishing etched brass machines reviewed in Windsock last year. I think either would make an eyecatching model. I have the Smithsonian book, but am unsure just where it is. If I can lay hands on it, I'll let you know and you're welcome to copies of drawings etc which may help. All this is 1/72, so FWIW I note that the old, old 1/48 Inpact kit is also still occasionally available in one of the many reboxings, and eminently worth a look. I wish every WW1 kit were as good or better ! > > In Front Range Colorado its sunny and 30 degrees, at least last >night's snow is melted off of the roads. In Brisbane, capital of Queensland "The Sunshine State" its about 35C (95F) and 90% humidity. ALL the snow melted in 1894 Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 17:19:43 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: RE: Bleriot XI Message-ID: >Richard asks: > >> > Do any of you learned gentlemen out there have drawings that >> might >> > assist me in placing all those brass bits together in something >> like a >> > true Bleriot XI flying machine? (the kit directions are a tad >> lacking) >> > >> > Charles replies: > > > Sounds like the Phoenix/Blue Rider kit, it was expensive. >There is a > >book from the Smithsonian on their restoration of a Bleriot >monoplane. > >While not extensive with its drawings, there are a lot of >photos that > >should help your project. This book is still in print (I >think). > >The BR kit came out in about 1990, but there is also a newer one by AJP, >one of those astonishing etched brass machines reviewed in Windsock >last year. I think either would make an eyecatching model. The AJP kit of the Bleriot, as are all kits from this maker, are 1/48. This is a point that is not quite entirely clear from the recent reviews of these kits in Windsock. One thing that is certain though is that AJP kits are phenomenally expensive, quite a bit more than the 1/72 Blue Rider effort. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu >I have the Smithsonian book, but am unsure just where it is. If I can >lay hands on it, I'll let you know and you're welcome to copies of >drawings etc which may help. > >All this is 1/72, so FWIW I note that the old, old 1/48 Inpact kit is >also still occasionally available in one of the many reboxings, and >eminently worth a look. I wish every WW1 kit were as good or better ! > >> > In Front Range Colorado its sunny and 30 degrees, at least last > >night's snow is melted off of the roads. > >In Brisbane, capital of Queensland "The Sunshine State" its about 35C >(95F) and 90% humidity. ALL the snow melted in 1894 > >Shane ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 760 *********************