WWI Digest 678 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: German 1914 pattern LMG by Suvoroff@aol.com 2) by fedders 3) Re: Reply to justified(?) criticism by Patrick Padovan 4) Re: Blue Max Camel Review by Patrick Padovan 5) Re: Silverbird by Carlos Valdes 6) Re: Blue Max Camel Review by "Don Rinker" 7) Re: Silverbird by TPTPUMPER@aol.com 8) Re: Blue Max Camel Review by Patrick Padovan 9) Re: Blue Max Camel Review by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 10) Re: Blue Max Camel Review pt.2 by Patrick Padovan 11) Re: Silverbird by Carlos Valdes 12) Re: Blue Max Camel Review by mbittner@juno.com 13) Re: Silverbird by mbittner@juno.com 14) Re: Blue Max Camel Review by Mark K Nelson 15) Re: Blue Max Camel Review by Mark K Nelson 16) Re: Blue Max Camel Review by "S.M.Sundberg" 17) Re: Blue Max Camel Review by Carlos Valdes 18) Re: Silverbird by Joey Valenciano 19) Re: Voss' Pfalz D.III (formerly Re: Just spotted) by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:30:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Suvoroff@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: German 1914 pattern LMG Message-ID: <970916112851_1585081084@emout16.mail.aol.com> Well, when I said completely different, I meant the holes are not in the same pattern. The theme (a perforated sheet metal cylinder) is the same. Next week when I get back to work (on leave now) I will use the office copier and post the copies. Yours, James D. Gray ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:52:20 -0500 (CDT) From: fedders To: models Message-ID: I can't raise silverbird on the web. Do they still exist?? thanks peter fedders ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:14:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Reply to justified(?) criticism Message-ID: Dear Sandy: spoken like a gentleman, sir. And I in turn apologize for my harsh- or at least sarcastic- message to you. We're all entitled to express ourselves as we wish. Your message to Bill just rubbed me the wrong way at the time I read it. I don't know if this counts as an extenuating circumstance or not, but yesterday was my first work Monday after vacation, and I was in a somewhat foul mood to begin with. Anyhow, peace, bro. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:36:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review Message-ID: Dear Gents: Received my Camels in the mail yesterday, too. Wow! So, what we need now is a nice little after market package that includes: 1. One complete camel undercarriage 2. One Camel cowl, generic 3. One engine (Bentley? LeRhone?) 4. One firewall. With the above, anyone who buys a Blue Max camel will be able to complete two kits! Have I left anything out? Oh, of course! 5. One Camel interrior. (Barry & Tim, I hope you're reading this!) Question: can anyone suggest a good source for alternate 1/48 decals appropriate to RFC & RNAS western front Camel squadrons? Roundels aren't a problem, obviously, but squadron markings and serials. I don't want to do Brown's Camel, or USAS bird. Any suggestions? Regards, Patrick P.S. I don't want to scratch the above parts, either! So there! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 01:17:39 -0400 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Silverbird Message-ID: <341E1673.590C@conted.gatech.edu> > > I can't raise silverbird on the web. Do they still exist?? The site is still online, but I sent Ivan e-mail more than a week ago and he has yet to respond. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:05:55 -0400 From: "Don Rinker" To: Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review Message-ID: <199709162105.RAA26060@post1.fast.net> ---------- > From: Patrick Padovan > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review > Date: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 3:37 PM > > Dear Gents: Received my Camels in the mail yesterday, too. Wow! So, > what we need now is a nice little after market package that includes: > 1. One complete camel undercarriage > With the above, anyone who buys a Blue Max camel will be able to > complete two kits! Am I being extremely stupid or are there two of everything except the above stuff in the one kit box??? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:07:49 -0400 (EDT) From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Silverbird Message-ID: <970916170433_-862656762@emout14.mail.aol.com> Hi Guys! > > > > I can't raise silverbird on the web. Do they still exist?? > > The site is still online, but I sent Ivan e-mail more than a week ago > and he has yet to respond. > Carlos > I placed an order with Silverbird about two weeks ago, and have been waiting for Ivan's response with shipping charges so I can send card info, as per instructions. I emailed Ivan last week asking if he changed procedure and still no response. Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe we should get Barry to carry Hora and a few other of those goodies! ;^) Have Fun!! IRA Campbell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:31:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review Message-ID: Dear Don: no, and yes: No, you're not being extremely stupid. Yes, there ARE two of everything else in the box! Oh, wait a minute: there is, unless I'm mistaken, only one tail assembly (or is there? I can;t remember) but there are 2 fuselages and 2 sets of wings, upper and lower. There are metal guns for both versions (although there may only be 2 vickers, so you might need an Aeroclub item to complete both F1 & 2F1 from the same kit, but there is a Lewis provided for the 2F1) but only 1 engine, 1 set of landing gear, 1 cowl (I think), and 1 interior set. (Sorry to take up space with things that have already been said, but I'm trying to answer the man's question.) I got 2 kits, but the plan is two build one and save the other, so I'll be trying to build 2 planes from the one kit. Somebody else suggested the Smer or Monogram kits as a source for spares: are these the SAME kit? If not, can someone familiar with both provide an opinion on which of these might provide the better parts? Ciao! Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 16:54:55 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review Message-ID: <199709162200.RAA19026@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> Patrick wrote: > No, you're not being extremely stupid. Yes, > there ARE two of everything else in the box! Maybe you guys who already have your kits should re-box the extra parts and sell them as "scratchbuilder starter" kits :-) Incidentley, is this kit in the typical $50 (USA) range of the Blue Max kits? I have yet to see (or even look for) a price anywhere. Paul A. Schwartzkopf =================================================================== Development Engineer--Software Transcrypt International, Inc. Telephone: (402) 474-4800 E-Mail: pauls@transcrypt.com =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:58:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review pt.2 Message-ID: Dear gents: Please note that when Don snipped my message about what was needed to complete 2 Camels from 1 Blue Max kit, he deleted the other items from my list for brevity's sake: you need more than just the landing gear! I mention this lest anyone be misled. I pray to the dark forces of aftermarket goodies that the necessary items will soon be provided, amen! Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Don Rinker wrote: > > > ---------- > > From: Patrick Padovan > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review > > Date: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 3:37 PM > > > > Dear Gents: Received my Camels in the mail yesterday, too. Wow! So, > > what we need now is a nice little after market package that includes: > > 1. One complete camel undercarriage > > With the above, anyone who buys a Blue Max camel will be able to > > complete two kits! > > Am I being extremely stupid or are there two of everything except the > above stuff in the one kit box??? > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:51:17 -0400 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Silverbird Message-ID: <341E4885.16D4@conted.gatech.edu> I just received a response from Ivan, so it seems the business is still going. BTW, I had asked about the Berg D.I, and Ivan informed me that it is sold out, with the manufacturer having given all his finished kits to foreign wholesalers. Now, who might that be in the US? I called Rosemont and Sopwith about this kit--Barry does not have it and will not be trying to get it, but Juan is planning on carrying it. Finally, Ivan reports that the manufacturer will be switching from resin to polyurethane, making production faster. I hope it does. One more thing: Silverbird does carry the new Propagteam Alb. D.V decals someone mentined on the list a week or so ago. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:37:44 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review Message-ID: <19970916.183751.16518.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:36:43 -0400 Patrick Padovan writes: > Question: can anyone suggest a good source for alternate 1/48 > decals appropriate to RFC & RNAS western front Camel squadrons? > Roundels aren't a problem, obviously, but squadron markings and > serials. I don't want to do Brown's Camel, or USAS bird. Any > suggestions? Didn't Americal put out an RFC sheet a few months ago? Let's see: Sheet # 118 and 119. Oops, sorry. Looks like no Camels. Maybe a Blue Rider sheet? Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:35:35 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Silverbird Message-ID: <19970916.183751.16518.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:13:49 -0400 TPTPUMPER@aol.com writes: > I placed an order with Silverbird about two weeks ago, and have > been waiting for Ivan's response with shipping charges so I can > send card info, as per instructions. I emailed Ivan last week > asking if he changed procedure and still no response. Your > guess is as good as mine. Maybe we should get Barry to carry > Hora and a few other of those goodies! ;^) I agree with IRA. Barry really needs to carry the Hora line. The MoS Type N is quite wonderful; and from others reviews, some of the rest aren't bad either. Barry? Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:39:41 -0700 From: Mark K Nelson To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review Message-ID: >On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:36:43 -0400 Patrick Padovan > writes: > >> Question: can anyone suggest a good source for alternate 1/48 >> decals appropriate to RFC & RNAS western front Camel squadrons? >> Roundels aren't a problem, obviously, but squadron markings and >> serials. I don't want to do Brown's Camel, or USAS bird. Any >> suggestions? > >Didn't Americal put out an RFC sheet a few months ago? Let's >see: Sheet # 118 and 119. Oops, sorry. Looks like no Camels. >Maybe a Blue Rider sheet? > > >Matt Bittner Aeromaster did a couple of sheets, one of which did various stages of Brown's Camel - that's what prompted the Windsock article that Blue Max used for their 'Brown' markings. _____________________________________________________________________ Mark (An Employee at Kites & Other Delights in West Edmonton Mall) ------------------------ mnelson@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:51:08 -0700 From: Mark K Nelson To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review Message-ID: Response to multiple messages. . . Funny, it almost looks like everybody saw the "Re: Blue Max Camel Review"s but missed the original. . . Oh Well. . . If you want to see it again for all the detailed 'poop' (or do Camels have manure?) let me know directly and I'll email you a copy. Paul Shwartzkopf: The price from Blue Max is 21.99 in UK pounds including shipping. (40ish US) Patrick: Basically what Blue Max has done is produce all the common parts in the minimum quantity and then added only the alternate pieces to do the F1 and 2F1. primary differences: 1) 2F1 had a shorter span wing. 2) 2F1 had a fuselage that could be 'broken' behind the cockpit for easier shipboard stowage. 3) 2F1 had 1 Vickers in a revised hump and a Lewis atop the wing. 4) Some 2F1 aircraft had 2 Lewises and many had the Bentley BR1 (neither in kit.) So what we have is a complete F1 kit as well as a 3-part upper wing, completely new 4-part fuselage, and a Lewis. >Patrick wrote: > >> No, you're not being extremely stupid. Yes, >> there ARE two of everything else in the box! > >Maybe you guys who already have your kits should re-box the extra >parts and sell them as "scratchbuilder starter" kits :-) > >Incidentley, is this kit in the typical $50 (USA) range of the Blue >Max kits? I have yet to see (or even look for) a price anywhere. > >Paul A. Schwartzkopf >=================================================================== >Development Engineer--Software >Transcrypt International, Inc. >Telephone: (402) 474-4800 >E-Mail: pauls@transcrypt.com >=================================================================== _____________________________________________________________________ Mark (An Employee at Kites & Other Delights in West Edmonton Mall) ------------------------ mnelson@v-wave.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:58:07 -0500 From: "S.M.Sundberg" To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review Message-ID: <341F2B1F.7E3@netins.net> Paul Schwartzkopf wrote: >=20 > Patrick wrote: >=20 > > No, you're not being extremely stupid. Yes, > > there ARE two of everything else in the box! >=20 > Maybe you guys who already have your kits should re-box the extra > parts and sell them as "scratchbuilder starter" kits :-) >=20 > Incidentley, is this kit in the typical $50 (USA) range of the Blue > Max kits? I have yet to see (or even look for) a price anywhere. >=20 > Paul A. Schwartzkopf > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Development Engineer--Software > Transcrypt International, Inc. > Telephone: (402) 474-4800 > E-Mail: pauls@transcrypt.com > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D I got my credit card bill today. The Chris Gannon charge was =A321.99.=20 that translated into $35.23. That included air mail postage. Steve Sundberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 07:39:46 -0400 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Max Camel Review Message-ID: <341E7002.4167@conted.gatech.edu> Speaking of Camel decals, I've seen the two AeroMaster Camel sheets. They cover 4 a/c, two from the same USAS squadron, 3(?) versions of Brown's crate, and L.S. Breadner's colorful No.3 (Naval) squadron bird, pictured on page 7 of the Camel datafile. The recently re-released SMER Camel has decals for one of Collishaw's machines, although I can't commennt on their quality as I don't have the kit. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 13:52:51 +0800 From: Joey Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Re: Silverbird Message-ID: <199709170552.NAA10980@fiesta.philonline.com.ph> At 07:43 PM 9/16/97 -0400, you wrote: >I just received a response from Ivan, so it seems the business is still >going. > BTW, I had asked about the Berg D.I, and Ivan informed me that it is >sold out. I emailed Ivan last week and got a response today. One interesting bit of news is that he'll be receiving the Hippo Macchi M5 soon! ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:29:48 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Voss' Pfalz D.III (formerly Re: Just spotted) Message-ID: <199709170629.AA21711@ednet1.orednet.org> Sandy wrote: >Hi Bill - my previous post was meant as a plea for a cessation of a >general trend in stating categorically that such-and-such was definitely >the case, when so much of it is open to conjecture and interpretation. >Since you are trying to, prove that Voss didn't fly a Pfalz operationally >it is impossible to find photographic evidence of him not doing so! >Thus you will be unable to prove this negative point. -snips- Well, I've kinda said my piece on this 'un and really don't have much to add. So, take my comments for what ya' think they might be worth and I'm satisfied to leave it at that - with one teeny tiny nit to pick. The original post quoted a claim for a specific color scheme for a Pfalz allegedly operated by Voss in September of 1917 on what I believe is shakey or non-existent evidence. Now, I admit that my rejection of that allegation may have been a tad too catagorical yet why am I challenged to prove the negative while the original (equally catagorical claim) is allowed to go unchallenged? Why do I have the burden of proof but the original claim gets a free ride? I could have, I suppose, have posted a query to the effect that "I don't believe this - prove it!" To which the original poster would have replied, I suppose, "Heck, that's what Eduard sez." Which would not, I submit, have advanced anyone's knowledge significantly. But, to avoid future misunderstandings, please mentally insert the words "I am of the opinion that ....." before all of my postings on this group. :-) Cheers and regards to all - and, as Bartles said (or was it James?) "We thank you for your support." Bill -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "Listen - strange women lying around in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!" ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 678 *********************