WWI Digest 663 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: plea for help by Mick Fauchon 2) Re: Goodbye by Mick Fauchon 3) Free email by mbittner@juno.com 4) Re: Methuen Colours by JimAlley@aol.com 5) Re: Jasta 5 by TPTPUMPER@aol.com 6) Re: Jasta 5 by Charles Hart 7) Colors only, please by JimAlley@aol.com 8) Access to Archives (was Jasta 5) by Andrew and Rebecca Hall 9) Re: Rib and Longeron tapes question by The Shannons 10) Re: plea for help by Sandy Adam 11) Re: plea for help by "Erik" 12) Re: Goodbye by Geoff Smith 13) Re: Princess Diana death by Patrick Padovan 14) Re: Jasta 5 by Suvoroff@aol.com 15) Re: Goodbye by "Valenciano . Jose" 16) Using the Methuen Colour Chart for the MAC by "Gerald P. McOsker" 17) RE: Goodbye by "Valenciano . Jose" 18) Re: Roll Models - Rosemont by TPTPUMPER@aol.com 19) Vacform wings by Bob Pearson 20) Re: Vacform wings by Charles Hart 21) RE: Vacform wings by David Solosy 22) Re: Roll Models - Rosemont by Jure Dolanec 23) Quoting Owen - was Jasta 5 by Sandy Adam ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:16:10 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: plea for help Message-ID: Bill, > Admitted, good photos of "naked" Dr.I's are not that easy to come > by. Yet, the photos of MvR's downed 425/17 seem to show an > interior fuselage structure which is inconsistent with bare metal. > And, other Fokker aircraft for which we do have decent "unclothed" > photos like the D.VII and the E.III all seem to show a primered > (or at least treated) fuselage framework. My memories [backed up by photos, which I don't have with me at the moment, of course 80(] of the Fokker DVII in the Deutsches Museum are these: the framework was *definitely* painted, in a greenish-grey, wiwth which I can probably supply a Methuen match in the next couple of days. The *inside* of the lozenge fabric was a very muddy, indistinct colour with hazy patches in the reverse pattern of the lozenge, but neither the colours nor the shapes were distinct. My impression was that the colours did not bleed through the fabric, but conveyed an indistinct impression on the inside. I'd expect to see the same thing in relation to DrIs. But as somebody mentioned, witness the photos of MvR's crashed DrI, and the inside colour seems to be just one plain, light colour, with no impression of the dark red [my apologies to the "gensd'armes des couleurs 80)] on the outside. Hope this helps....... Cheers, Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:25:32 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Goodbye Message-ID: > > We will syrely miss you, your help and wonderful good humor. My best > wishes to you for all future endevours. I look forward to seeing you on > line again > Bill and I concurr again 80) Not much I can add, except: "Amen to that, brother!" > > (PS - I may pop in for a day every month or so to help keep Matt in > > line > > ;-) Heh-heh!! And Amen to that, too!! 80) Pop in any time. Should we feel free to do so in the meantime? 80) Cheers, Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 06:53:28 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Free email Message-ID: <19970902.065329.16462.0.mbittner@juno.com> Since Shane's leaving (total bummer ;-)) someone mentioned about free email services. The one I use I can recommend 99%. It's an ad-driven system, so that's why it's free. The most annoying this is watching ads flash by in a small window within the email system. Not a total waste. For those who are interested, go to http://www.juno.com and download the software. All you need is a decent modem (faster than 14.4, for optimal use) and one of the Windows systems. Highly recommended. The other small annoying problem is that Juno doesn't like people sending binary files via uuencode. Once a message exceeds 60K in length, Juno will bounce it, and tell you why. There is a work around. By using Wincode - or some such uuencode/decode program - you can split the files into 60K or less (I recommend 45K to handle the Juno headers) chunks. So, if you want free email, this is one of the best ways to go. You don't need an ISP - or some way to connect to the web - like you do for www.hotmail.com. Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:04:27 -0400 (EDT) From: JimAlley@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Methuen Colours Message-ID: <970902080427_1555289944@emout02.mail.aol.com> >I have downloaded the colour charts. Thanks to everyone involved. Now what >type of software do I need to open this? Simply open the document in Adobe Illustrator. You will find an essentially blank page, but your color list will contain the Methuen colors. For FreeHand users (wise souls all), save that Illustrator file as an EPS document. When offered the choice, choose an older version of Illustrator compatibility -- like maybe v.5. Then you can open the file in FreeHand with color list intact. (FreeHand users: if you don't have a copy of Illustrator to perform the translation, email me OFF-LIST and I'll send you one.) Jim Alley ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 08:59:30 -0400 (EDT) From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Jasta 5 Message-ID: <970902085928_1026434560@emout04.mail.aol.com> Hi Carlos! > Ira, > The Ferko materials are now part of THe History of Aviation Collection > at the Univeristy of Texas in Dallas. Lucky you if you get a chance to > visit. > Carlos > Thanks for the info. I'll try to be that lucky. Have Fun!! IRA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 09:03:23 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Jasta 5 Message-ID: >Ira, > The Ferko materials are now part of THe History of Aviation Collection >at the Univeristy of Texas in Dallas. Lucky you if you get a chance to >visit. > Carlos FYI A friend of mine (who is researching materials for the Albatros Publications Jasta 5 book), traveled to Dallas two weeks ago to do additional work in the Ferko collection. He had made his initial visit there in mid-June. The staff at the UT-D library are presently denying access to this material to ANYONE until it is fully cataloged. Presently the only person doing any cataloging of the Ferko material is an 82 year old volunteer. Given that there are 10,000 pounds of documents, photos, memoribilia and the like in the Ferko collection, the job of cataloging this collection could easily outlive the cataloger. I'll also add that many documents in the collection are written in German, a language not spoken or read by the valliant cataloger. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 11:22:22 -0400 (EDT) From: JimAlley@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Colors only, please Message-ID: <970902112000_265609682@emout06.mail.aol.com> Help! When I wrote the following, >> (FreeHand users: if you don't have a copy of Illustrator to perform the >> translation, email me OFF-LIST and I'll send you one.) >> >> Jim Alley I didn't realize how it might be taken. Several people have written asking me for a copy of Adobe Illustrator. Illustrator is a professional PostScript illustration program that costs $550 - $600. Obviously, I can't send you one. You'll have to buy it (or FreeHand) yourself. What I *intended* to say was that I can send you a copy of either an Illustrator file or a FreeHand file containing the Methuen colors. Mac only, please. Sorry for the confusion. Jim Alley ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:22:22 -0500 From: Andrew and Rebecca Hall To: wwi Subject: Access to Archives (was Jasta 5) Message-ID: <340C2F2E.E3E@phoenix.net> Charles Hart wrote: > A friend of mine (who is researching materials for the Albatros > Publications Jasta 5 book), traveled to Dallas two weeks ago to do > additional work in the Ferko collection. He had made his initial visit > there in mid-June. The staff at the UT-D library are presently denying > access to this material to ANYONE until it is fully cataloged. Presently > the only person doing any cataloging of the Ferko material is an 82 year > old volunteer. Given that there are 10,000 pounds of documents, photos, > memoribilia and the like in the Ferko collection, the job of cataloging > this collection could easily outlive the cataloger. I'll also add that > many documents in the collection are written in German, a language not > spoken or read by the valliant cataloger. I'm not familiar with this particular case, but the archives' position regard access before cataloging is not unreasonable. Keeping everything together is difficult under any circumstances, but it's impossible if you don't know what you've got to begin with. A thorough, complete job of cataloging is one of the few tools archives have to aid in the secutiry of their collections, but even so an astonishing volume of valuable archival material "walks out the door" from libraries and collections every year. Most archivists have little way to distinguish between serious researchers and the merely curious, and virtually no way to tell the honest ones from the thieves. The problem is particularly serious in public institutions, which cannot pick and choose who they let in, and must make an effort to satisfy every reasonable request for access. Having said that, though, it does seem that the archive has a responsibility to put more resources into cataloging the Ferko Collection than it apparently has. A couple of years is not an inordinate amount of time to wait for so large a collection to be available, but it sounds like it's going to be much, much longer than that at the present rate. -----------------> Andy Hall ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 10:33:16 -0500 From: The Shannons To: wwi Subject: Re: Rib and Longeron tapes question Message-ID: <340C31BC.2A19@ix.netcom.com> Just wanted to thank the gang for the answers to this question. Moving right along now. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 17:43:24 +0100 (BST) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: plea for help Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Aug 1997, Bill Shatzer wrote: > > I'd be kind of sceptical of the "bare metal theory" - untreated steel, > especially 1917-era untreated steel tends to rust rather quickly in > an environment with any sort of moisture in it - a description which > the interior of just about any WW1 aircraft would fit (remember that > moisture problems in the interior of the Dr.I WING were a contributing > factor to the wing failure on the initial batch of triplanes. And > the wing is certainly more weather- and water-tight than is the > fuselage interior.) I'm sure that's right, Bill - I checked back as to why I had used "metal" colours and see I had used the hangar pictures of the captured Tripe that the RFC/RAF had examined and which shows light, highly reflective, surfaces on the longerons (although dark on the uprights). My assumptions were that these were not necessarily steel with a high iron content which would rust readily but an alloy which would not. I know Jane's and various other refs talk of aluminium Fokker wing components and debated whether this may have been more widespread. Also, many RFC aircraft I have examined at Hendon, Shuttleworth etc have metal corner fittings on wooden fuselage frames which anchor the bracing wires. In many cases these are metal coloured - perhaps clear varnished - but grey/steel. I assumed if these could be metal coloured in a Sopwith, the framework could also be so in a Fokker. > > On the lozenge fabric question, I've never seen a contemporary > German reference (as opposed to after-the-fact modern speculation) > saying that weight savings was the reason for adopting that > fabic. While that might have been one consideration, it is > at least possible that increasing the speed of production was > another or even the principal reason for the lozenge. Without doubt speed, ease, cost etc were factors. My reason for quoting weight was purely re-iterating what I had just read in the Mikesh Smithsonian Alb DVa book which I acquired about two weeks ago. I had not really considered weight as such an important factor until I read this book. As you say , there were undoubtedly lots of other reasons too. Sandy PS Shane has probably gone by now, but I add my best wishes - amazing what Aussies do after losing a cricket match! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:28:47 +0000 From: "Erik" To: wwi Subject: Re: plea for help Message-ID: <199709021930.MAA19529@glinda.oz.net> On 2 Sep 97, Mick Fauchon heroically postulated: > My memories [backed up by photos, which I don't have with me at the > moment, of course 80(] of the Fokker DVII in the Deutsches Museum are these: > the framework was *definitely* painted, in a greenish-grey, wiwth which I > can probably supply a Methuen match in the next couple of days. > The *inside* of the lozenge fabric was a very muddy, indistinct > colour with hazy patches in the reverse pattern of the lozenge, but neither > the colours nor the shapes were distinct. > My impression was that the colours did not bleed through the fabric, > but conveyed an indistinct impression on the inside. I'd expect to see > the same thing in relation to DrIs. I think Mick may be right, here. I took a picture of the D.VII in the Deutsches Museum in 1982, before it had been restored to it's current state. The only work done to the aircraft to that date (at least according to the fellow I spoke to at the Museum) was to re-cover the thing in some "new" (and very strabgely colored!) lozenge fabric. The picture I took of the cockpit is on Al's web page. It does indeed appear to my eye that, apart from being cleaned and the like, there really had been no additional work done to the interior. The tubing is definitely painted, but the color has darkened to near-black with age and wear. Still, it's worth looking at, and provides some clues.... Cheers, Erik ........................................................................ "Mr.Anchovy, perhaps you could move *towards* 'Lion Taming' via Banking, or even Insurance?..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:17:05 -0400 From: Geoff Smith To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Goodbye Message-ID: <199709021617_MC2-1EE4-DA7D@compuserve.com> Shane, Sorry to hear you're going, I'm sure we all look forward to your speedy return. All the best, mate, Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 16:14:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Princess Diana death Message-ID: Of course, its the consumers who feed the demand and make it all profitable. If no one was interested in this stuff, there'd be no market, and if there was no market, there'd be no problem. Just mho, fwiw. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:23:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Suvoroff@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Jasta 5 Message-ID: <970902202134_112486884@emout02.mail.aol.com> Thanks for the information, guys. I will be writing to Americal/Gryphon. Yours, James D. Gray "What bell tolls for those that die as cattle? Only the monstrous anger of the guns." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:31:43 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: "Valenciano . Jose" To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Goodbye Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Shane Weier wrote: > Sadly, I am about to unsubscribe from the ww1 list after two and a half > years of constant membership. The volume of mail has become too much for > this company owned account, and as one of those charged with its > maintenance I can no longer in conscience continue to use it. Very sad news indeed, Shane. > Personal issues currently prevent my affording a private account, so I > must instead wish you all the best, thank you for your time, good humour > and endless assistance, and say goodbye I'll keep you posted on anything interesting. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 20:38:04 -0400 From: "Gerald P. McOsker" To: wwi Subject: Using the Methuen Colour Chart for the MAC Message-ID: Jim Alley rightly said that the Methuen chart, so graciously conveyed by Richard Humberstone is to be opened by Adobe Illustrator [a very expensive program]. All is not lost- Adobe provides- a try out version that allows you to use the program but inhibits saving stuff- in any event I have been able to open the Methuen program in this Illustrator try out version. [ I don't remember where I downloaded it from] I was then mystified to see the frontespiece of the Methuen Coulour Guide but no colors. Thanks to Dr. Alley- I went to to the window menu and open both the color and swatches sections. When you diddle around with scrolling the colors in the swatch section the Methuen colours appear. Click on one and another box pops up with the color and its Methuen number. I would tend to think that this method would work under the Wintel regime as well. This has worked for me- maybe I'm doing it wrong but I am getting the colour chips up. Cheese- Gerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 08:33:30 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: "Valenciano . Jose" To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Goodbye Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, David Randall wrote: > Shane and others... > > There are many *free* web based e-mail accounts popping up. You might = > consider them. If you have a library nearby, often, they have free = > dial-up that you can use. You might not get PPP, but text based web = > only. But then again, that's all e-mails are anyhow... Food for = > thought.=20 One that the guys over here use can be found in www.hotmail.com ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:33:04 -0400 (EDT) From: TPTPUMPER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Roll Models - Rosemont Message-ID: <970902223122_-1568870192@emout08.mail.aol.com> Hi Miguel! Rosemont Hobbies does international mail order, accepts major credit cards, and renders excellent customer service. They have a website which I don't remember right now. Go to the WWI Modeling Page, Commercial links. Find Rosemont's listing and click on the hypertext to go to the website. If you find somewhere with better customer service, we'd all like to know, but I, for one, won't hold my breath. I keep hearing John Roll of Roll Models has an excellent reputation, but Roll Models just took over Battle Hobbies and must be experiencing growing pains. Also, UPS recently went on a two week strike, which didn't help things. I am waiting for an order from Roll Models, and in that time have received three orders from Rosemont. I won't give up on Roll Models just yet, but Rosemont will treat you right, right now. Have Fun!! IRA Campbell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:45:53 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Vacform wings Message-ID: <04455372727003@KAIEN.COM> Greetings all, I know this is a pretty basic question, but help is needed. My 1/48 Felixstowe vacform has a badly warped lower wing and I haven't been able to straighten it out. I have tried placing the panels in boiling water and then holding them flat while they cool down as well as over low heat but they are still doing their impression of a licorice twist. One other query. Does anyone have any hints on building 2 foot long double sided wings? Thanks Bob Pearson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:01:31 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Vacform wings Message-ID: >Greetings all, > >I know this is a pretty basic question, but help is needed. My 1/48 >Felixstowe vacform has a badly warped lower wing and I haven't been able to >straighten it out. I have tried placing the panels in boiling water and then >holding them flat while they cool down as well as over low heat but they are >still doing their impression of a licorice twist. > >One other query. Does anyone have any hints on building 2 foot long double >sided wings? > >Thanks >Bob Pearson One technique I have heard about is forming a wing core from basswood then skining it with 10 or 20 thou sheet styrene, probably the former (?). If you want to represent ribs in the upper and lower surfaces, you can score the plastic sheet with a blunt tool (ball point pen ?) and make the ribs stick out a little. Alternatively, ribs can be represented by strips of decal film beneath the final color of paint (my preference). You will wind up with a much sturdier structure with the wood core than just the molded (presently warped) styrene wing. Besides its got to hold up the upper wing and all those struts. My US$ 0.02 Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 13:22:11 +0800 From: David Solosy To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Vacform wings Message-ID: <01BCB86C.7F0F0200@user19.argo.net.au> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB86C.7F0F0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob have you tried plunging them into cold water straight after you've had = them in the boiling water. The other trick is with the hair dryer. You = need to carefully lash the wing halves to a flat piece of wood or baking = tray or similar, then patiently blow the hot air over them. Like = verything else, it sounds easy, but it never is.=20 The only advice I have about building two foot long double sided wings = is, take deep breaths, don't get too drunk and pray fervently. Sorry, = not very constructive. When I feel the urge to build a Felixstowe, I = think I'll look for something in about 1/800 scale. ;-) David S -----Original Message----- From: Bob Pearson [SMTP:bpearson@kaien.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 12:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Vacform wings Greetings all, I know this is a pretty basic question, but help is needed. My 1/48 Felixstowe vacform has a badly warped lower wing and I haven't been able = to straighten it out. I have tried placing the panels in boiling water and = then holding them flat while they cool down as well as over low heat but they = are still doing their impression of a licorice twist. One other query. Does anyone have any hints on building 2 foot long = double sided wings? Thanks Bob Pearson ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB86C.7F0F0200 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjoFAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAsAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAASQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHd3aUBwZWFzZTEuc3Iu dW5oLmVkdQBTTVRQAHd3aUBwZWFzZTEuc3IudW5oLmVkdQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAA AB4AAzABAAAAFgAAAHd3aUBwZWFzZTEuc3IudW5oLmVkdQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEw AQAAABgAAAAnd3dpQHBlYXNlMS5zci51bmguZWR1JwACAQswAQAAABsAAABTTVRQOldXSUBQRUFT RTEuU1IuVU5ILkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAFgAAAHd3aUBwZWFzZTEuc3Iu dW5oLmVkdQAAAAIB918BAAAASQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHd3aUBwZWFzZTEu c3IudW5oLmVkdQBTTVRQAHd3aUBwZWFzZTEuc3IudW5oLmVkdQAAAAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAA AgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAtlYAQSAAQASAAAAUkU6IFZhY2Zvcm0gd2luZ3MABwYBBYADAA4AAADN BwkAAwANABYACwADABEBASCAAwAOAAAAzQcJAAMADQAPACwAAwArAQEJgAEAIQAAAEEyRDc5QjU2 NUMyNEQxMTFCRUQ5NDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAO8GAQOQBgC8BwAAIQAAAAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAAD ACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDA76FUKbi8AR4AcAABAAAAEgAAAFJF OiBWYWNmb3JtIHdpbmdzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAby4KVShVpvXoyRcEdG+2URFU1QAAAAAHgAe DAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABQAAABzb2xvc3lkQGFyZ28ubmV0LmF1AAMABhAz/La1 AwAHEPEDAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABCT0JIQVZFWU9VVFJJRURQTFVOR0lOR1RIRU1JTlRPQ09MRFdB VEVSU1RSQUlHSFRBRlRFUllPVVZFSEFEVEhFTUlOVEhFQk9JTElOR1dBVEVSVEhFT1RIRVJUUklD S0lTV0lUAAAAAAIBCRABAAAApQQAAKEEAACpBgAATFpGdQYKJZF3AAoBAwH3IAKkA+MCAGOCaArA c2V0MCAHE4cCgwBQDvZwcnEyD/YmfQqACMggOwlvMjVmNQKACoF1YwBQCwNjAwBBC2BuZzEwMzPx C6YgQm8MMAqxCoAPgJB2ZSB5CGAgdAiBtGQgC1B1FXALgGcXcBBoZW0gC4B0byAjCOEXwHdhdASQ IHPTF4ALcGdoBUBhAYAZkX0XQScXEQ+AF8AYdRhiII8G4AMQGDIZYy4gVBvxzm8YcQXAF4Fjaxiw BCAvA/AYcBvTD4BpBcBkcup5HNJZF1FuCeAbQRjxgwrAARB1bGx5IAtg3nMedAPwGEEPgGwXEAQg sRjhYSBmC2AFQHAIkOpjHTFmGVBvBHAdQAXA+GJhaxgzGeAg0AWxAJB2bQMQCsAsGGIDoAqwdO8I kAIwIMECYG8H4B6THVB7GkAe8W8XEB2RGIEc8ExsaWsXICeBeRhwGDJlPmwPsCVQHlAZsAhgbmSV BCBlIQB5JVBidQVA/ylxH9AnggQAHPAWlBaUHRO2biDBGzB2HdAXIEkbEb8XEQGgCGAFQCpwAxBk GDO/I3AigCOABUAJABhBZAhg/wJgFyAAkAEAGUEYMQQgBADPJVEkABcgAQBlcBwQCXBNGXBoMMEv gG4nBUBn/w/AIBEY8B8gGAAd8ABwF8G9JHJmBJAXECYSHPBTBbD7HzAlUG4nAShyGQEAgBeA7xSA JeAXEBzwVyWCLUAz8H8pEBvTCHAygCASLhMiYUb5KRBpeBnAJoApQS1AKLLZHfBJJyCwLyFvHfAC ED8ZoQNwD8AowxuxLbQxLzw4MA/gBPAHQDZROy36KSuKRBcAMAAGACuKCvT5HFAzNgFAFRABQBFA HVCFBZB0EIQxNiAtQMI+TwUQGCEHQAXQB5BzYX8ygEDDK4Y/1D+hCxM/1mmwLTE0NAFAHFAxO/Fb DMFEY2I4cANhOgyDYjkWQyBQKhAPoAIgIFuAU01UUDpicEbULEBrC3AJ8C4FoG1d3yuFRZAGYAIw RfdXCYAf0HxzZCSAJVAGYAUwGJBihxmRFaAlUDE5OTc7wFAyOjQzRrBNSNdU+m9F900goCXgC1AX IAlw/mMFICXyBCAjQRxQGcBI2O0voGpAAUX3VgDQOmEYoL8wU0JvQ3o/JAu2K5lHCdFnJeAwcgdA bCwrii1Aa381ECaSHhEeESJwEUAPwHRnJkEhAB3QIHEKUBnAafcCICpUGIBsMXAeER/SCYDNHPBN INA70DQ4FpQ4iN8oYFElD4BXsiPwZCDBGWD+ckewF8AmcRmRIYMzYi1E/zJCS0AlkQGgL8EY4BaU Gcb/JZEpcS3RHPAtRReGANAYNf8lsR/QKSAbohwrM1MlchaV9xkhGDcik3cowF/SGIA1gvsG8C9x dztRHiEpEAMgXLH/J3MmchiAIrEqcmcjIGFgJv8DEGeiGDUe8QdwV/EEEFkRfyMyInAcUAWhLQIu oE9RLn0rik8f0B1FWMEfMBzwRP5vB5EAcBdAbqEtZHAAGxD/GMFO8WPBLiYRcC7uYCUwCPY/K4wA cGtR1UaJK4oSAQIAd4AAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwwPlRbii4vAFAAAgw wPlRbii4vAELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUA AAAAAAALAC+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAA AAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAkOs= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB86C.7F0F0200-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 07:29:41 +0200 From: Jure Dolanec To: wwi Subject: Re: Roll Models - Rosemont Message-ID: <340CF5C5.2490@siol.net> TPTPUMPER@aol.com wrote: > Rosemont Hobbies does international mail order, accepts major credit > cards, and renders excellent customer service. They have a website which I > don't remember right now. Miguel, I am from Europe (Slovenia) and was astonished when the first package from Barry (Rosemont hobbies) arrived in only six days! I don't know how he does it, but six days it was, the second order as well. Here is the URL: http://www.swiftsite.com/rosemonthobby/ I still have to try Roll models, so no comment here. Greetings, Jure Dolanec ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:12:37 +0100 (BST) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Quoting Owen - was Jasta 5 Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 Suvoroff@aol.com wrote: > "What bell tolls for those that die as cattle? > Only the monstrous anger of the guns." > James, if you are going to quote Wilfred Owen, you owe it to get him right!! "What passing-bells for these who die as cattle? Only the monstrous anger of the guns. Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle Can patter out their hasty orisons." (Anthem for Doomed Youth) If you like WW1 poetry you should read AE Housman - A Shropshire Lad which was astomishingly written so prophetically before the War. Some of the lines are unbearably moving - Poem 23 for example describes the lads at Ludlow fair and moving amongst them are the ones "that will never grow old", the "few that will carry their looks or their truth to the grave" The last verse kills me: "But now you may stare as you like and there's nothing to scan; And brushing your elbow unguessed-at and not to be told They carry back bright to the coiner the mintage of man The lads that will die in their glory and never be old" There is a marvellous song setting of this by George Butterworth who was an English teacher who saw his pupils going off to the front and never coming back and decided, in his thirties, that he could not, not go. He died in the mud at Pozieres on the Somme in 1916 and Britain lost one of its most promising musical figures this century. Sandy ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 663 *********************