WWI Digest 602 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: This Year Nationals by rnrniles@wired2.net (Russell W Niles) 2) Re: 425/17 ad infinitum. . . . by The Shannons 3) Off topic request by mbittner@juno.com 4) Re: Off topic request by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 5) Re: Off topic request by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 6) Re: Off topic request by "Brad Gossen" 7) Re: Colt/Browning gun calibers by "Rob " 8) Re: Colt/Browning gun calibers by "Rob " 9) Russian aircraft ammunition by George Schmitt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 10:20:07 -0700 From: rnrniles@wired2.net (Russell W Niles) To: wwi Subject: Re: This Year Nationals Message-ID: <19970706172006390.AAA177@25.usr1.wired2.net> >Hi > >This is to wish all the guys going to the Nationals, a happy trip, happy >landings and lots of fun. >I envy you a lot and would give even one of my Blue Max models to be there >with you. > >Please enjoy in the name of all of us poor souls that wont be able to make it. > >SALUDOS > >ALBERTO > >Is it already known where the next one will be held ? > > > Alberto Next years IPMS Nationals will be held in San Jose California, 4th of July weekend. I believe the dates are 2,3,4,5 July 1998. Hope you can make it. Russ Niles IPMS 4450 rnrniles@wired2.net Too close for missles....switching to guns. Russ Niles IPMS 4450 rnrniles@wired2.net Too close for missles....switching to guns. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 13:48:49 -0500 From: The Shannons To: wwi Subject: Re: 425/17 ad infinitum. . . . Message-ID: <33BFE891.D5E@ix.netcom.com> Andrew and Rebecca Hall wrote: > > > > The Imrie book has good coverage of MvR's Dr.Is. > > 425/17 and (eventually) 152/17 were all red. > > That's interesting. Kilduff's book also has a photo of 152/17 -- the serial > is barely visible -- that seems to show clearly that the forward part of the > fuselage remained in the streaky-green factory finish. Was it painted later? > > FWIW, Kilduff describes both 425/17 and 477/17 as "all-red" (pp. 199 and 196 > respectively), 152/17 as "mostly red" (p.182), and 127/17 as red on the top > wing, cowling, tail and wheel covers (p. 196). > > Finally, what are list members' views on Carisella & Ryan's old book, _Who > Killeed the Red Baron?_ Reliable? Accurate? In particular, what of his > tale at the end of the book of recovering Richtofen's bones from the grave at > Bertangles and turning them over to the German Ar Attache in Paris? > > -----------> Andy Hall > > -- > Andrew and Rebecca Hall > Galveston, Texas > tigone@phoenix.net > __________________________________________________________________ > New Fathers Tip No. 47: The "8-10lbs." label on the diaper package > refers to the weight of the baby, not > the capacity. -- Adding two cents' worth. 152/17 was one of the red top wing upper surface, red tail from cockpit rear edge on top and front edge of markings area on the side, red wheels, red cowling, red struts aircraft when MvR scored his two victories in it (66 and 67? I don't have my references with me). It was later painted red all over, and was preserved in that condition in the museum. Richtoffen may have flown it in this condition on missions where he did not score -- it appears to have been a back-up plane after he started flying 425/17. 425/17 was all red, with initially the inaccurate rendering of the tail cross due to a misunderstanding of the markings instructions. Apparently when the crosses were changed from the Patee style to the Balkencruz style, the tail color was also corrected to the officially desired white background. All of this was going on at the busy time of the spring 1918 offensive, and repainting would have been done quickly when time permitted as long as it did not interfere with military need. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon Shingend@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:13:42 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Off topic request Message-ID: <19970706.201342.13326.4.mbittner@juno.com> Wayyyy off topic, but does anybody have any info, especiallly cockpit drawings/photo's on the Henschel Hs-126? Especially Riordan, since I'm going to do an SCW bird. TIA! Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 18:21:51 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Off topic request Message-ID: <33C044AF.2EEC@ricochet.net> mbittner@juno.com wrote: > > Wayyyy off topic, but does anybody have any info, especiallly cockpit > drawings/photo's on the Henschel Hs-126? Especially Riordan, since I'm > going to do an SCW bird. TIA! > > Matt > mbittner@juno.com Matt, I'll have a look in my Luftwaffe books once I've unpacked 'em and get back to you. Can't promise too much afa cockpits, but I may have some other useful data. -- Michelle and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Michelle's Home/Resume Page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/9171 Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 18:23:19 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Off topic request Message-ID: <33C04507.1C48@ricochet.net> mbittner@juno.com wrote: > > Wayyyy off topic, but does anybody have any info, especiallly cockpit > drawings/photo's on the Henschel Hs-126? Especially Riordan, since I'm > going to do an SCW bird. TIA! > > Matt > mbittner@juno.com What kit are you building? Matchbox or ? It has a Spanish decal option? -- Michelle and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Michelle's Home/Resume Page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/9171 Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:01:24 -0400 From: "Brad Gossen" To: Subject: Re: Off topic request Message-ID: <199707070405.AAA11168@smtp.globalserve.net> Matt, The best pictoral reference I can find for the "Luftwaffe Lysander" is Squadron/Signal Aircraft No. 2, Luftwaffe in Action pgs. 3-10. The Putnam book, Aircraft of the Spanish Civil War, has a very brief history and one rather small photo. I have numerous other photos in various publicatons but these depict mostly Russian front or North African machines and no good close-ups. The Sqdn/Sgnl spread has some close-ups of the observer's cockpit showing the position of the camera mount but the interior is obscured by the observer. Another photo in Karl Ries Jr.s' Aircraft of the Luftwaffe 1933-1945, taken from some distance shows a SCW machine with the same camera mount and a large bomb hanging from the left side of the lower fuselage, beneath the cockpit. The only Spanish machines I could find have wheel pants and appear to be overall 70/71 splinter with 65 undersides and white spinner and rudder. If any of this interests you send your snail-mail address and I can attempt some photo copies at work. I go back on wednesday. Brad BigglesRFC@globalserve.net ---------- > From: mbittner@juno.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Off topic request > Date: Sunday, July 06, 1997 9:16 PM > > Wayyyy off topic, but does anybody have any info, especiallly cockpit > drawings/photo's on the Henschel Hs-126? Especially Riordan, since I'm > going to do an SCW bird. TIA! > > > Matt > mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:37:31 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re: Colt/Browning gun calibers Message-ID: <199707070644.CAA05970@newman.concentric.net> > Were the few Lewis & Vickers guns supplied to the Russians also > chambered for their 7.62 x 54mm round? Not that I've heard. Even French and US guns were .303 as near as I know. 30-cal Lewis guns were made, though, so the Vickers might be too. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:43:51 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re: Colt/Browning gun calibers Message-ID: <199707070650.CAA06808@newman.concentric.net> The Colt was a commercial gun sold to some National Guard units but never adopted by the Army. Hence the many calibers. The Madsen was also a commercial weapon made for a vast array of cartridges. More interestiong still: all the major WW1 mgs were American in origin: Maxim (including Vickers, German, and Russian licenses), Lewis, Hotchkiss, Colt, Browning). > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:12:57 -0400 > Reply-to: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Colt/Browning gun calibers > Rob wrote: > > > > I should add that many of the Colts were not US .30-cal. Many were > > made for the 7.62 x 54-mm Russian, 6.5-mm Italian, and 7.5-mm French > > cartridges. > > Thanks Rob. This will help answer Dr. Schmittt's posting. > So I'm to understand that Colt manufactured all these guns (15K for the > Russians alone) in different calibers rather than make Europeans convert > them? Fascinating... > > -- > Michelle and Riordan Goodwin > Visit our websites: > > Michelle's Home/Resume Page: > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/9171 > Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:58:50 -0400 From: George Schmitt To: wwi Subject: Russian aircraft ammunition Message-ID: <199707071258.IAA04652@smtp3.erols.com> > If the WW1 aircraft were provided to Russia and then used by the > Soviets, is there any documentary evidence of where they got the ammunition > for those machines which arrived with foreign guns on board. > I am sure that the Russians mounted 7.62 (30 cal) x 54R chambered > machine guns on the machines which they received without guns as they had > Maxim and other machine guns in quantity in their arsenals in that caliber > which was their standard caliber. > The Russians and later the Soviets used foreign purchase and > lend-lease aircraft which apparently arrived in a staggering number of > calibers. Yet, there is to my current knowledge no record or their having > produced their own ammunition in the following calibers, all of which are > known to have been used in guns on these aircraft. > Ammunition chambered for aircraft guns known to have been delivered > to the Russians and later the Soviets: > 1. .30-06 US > 2. .303 British > 3. .50 Browning MG US > 4. 20 mm Hispano-Suizza > 5. 37 mm Browning > If they were getting French guns mounted on aircraft during WWI, > they would have been chambered for the 11 mm GRAS or 11 mm Vicars ammo. > None of this ammo has ever been found with Russian or Soviet > manufacturing marks. > So, did they buy what they could and use it up, instead of tooling > up to manufacture their own ammunition? > The ammunition display which I am putting together will include WWI > through current Russian/Soviet items, and representative aircraft models in > 1/48 scale. Thank you for any assistance, > Dr. J.R. Crittenden Schmitt ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 602 *********************