WWI Digest 572 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: RAF R.E.8 by Alberto Rada 2) Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 3) Re: Rotary engines of WWI by BStett3770@aol.com 4) Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel by Charles Hart 5) Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 6) Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 7) Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel by Lee Mensinger 8) Comparative silence by Geoff Smith 9) Meikraft Gotha by Bob Pearson 10) Re: Meikraft Gotha by mbittner@juno.com 11) Re: Iron Duke by Shane Weier 12) Re: Pfalz DXII refs by Shane Weier 13) Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel by barrett@iplink.net (barrett) 14) Re: Pfalz DXII refs by Geoff Smith 15) Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel by Crofoot 16) Re: Comparative silence by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 17) Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 18) Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 19) Re: Pfalz DXII refs by phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 16:32:48 -0400 From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: RAF R.E.8 Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970606163248.0077e1f4@pop.true.net> Hi Matt The articles from Aero have arrived, they are of great help Thanks a lot SALUDOS ALBERTO At 06:20 AM 12-05-97 -0400, you wrote: >On Sun, 11 May 1997 22:59:25 -0400 Alberto Rada writes: > >>There is an article in WW 1 Aero 127 and another in 136 >>that I need to complete information on this aircraft, could >>anyone on the list that has these publications please facilitate >>me photocopies of them. > >I'll go ahead and send them to you, if no one else has come forward. > > >Matt >mbittner@juno.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 16:18:45 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel Message-ID: <33989AD5.3BEC@ricochet.net> Are these the same kit, or is the Revell the old crisp mold w/cooper bombs? -- Michelle and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Michelle's Home/Resume Page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/9171 Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:42:54 -0400 (EDT) From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Rotary engines of WWI Message-ID: <970606214254_-1629353903@emout02.mail.aol.com> Hi Charles No sorry not for sale , it my personal copy. I've been collecting the stuff for about 30 years now. I could copy it, but it has about 66 pages, and the copys cost $0.25 per page so it would cost $16.50. It a soft cover and tight bound , so I'm not sure if it will copy well, as the part of the page near the binding my get bleared. If you like I'll try , and let you know how it copys Barry Rosemont Hobby ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 22:41:41 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel Message-ID: >Are these the same kit, or is the Revell the old crisp mold w/cooper >bombs? >-- >Michelle and Riordan Goodwin I believe that the Minicraft kit is based upon the knock-off mold that was used by Eldon Match Kits, Entex, and ESCI and possibly others. As far as I have seen, the Revell molds have remained in use, off and on, only by Revell and its German subsidiary. If any list member has information to the contrary, I'd appreciate learning what it is. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 22:03:08 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel Message-ID: <3398EB8C.7A72@ricochet.net> Charles Hart wrote: > > >Are these the same kit, or is the Revell the old crisp mold w/cooper > >bombs? > >-- > >Michelle and Riordan Goodwin > > I believe that the Minicraft kit is based upon the knock-off mold that > was used by Eldon Match Kits, Entex, and ESCI and possibly others. As far > as I have seen, the Revell molds have remained in use, off and on, only by > Revell and its German subsidiary. > > If any list member has information to the contrary, I'd appreciate > learning what it is. > > Charles > > hartc@spot.colorado.edu Charles, Thanks for the reply. The molds are very similar, almost as if the Minicraft/ESCI is a copy of the Revell but with pronounced replicative fading... I guess everyone must be modeling or my server is not 100%, as it's been unusually quiet the last day or so. -- Michelle and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Michelle's Home/Resume Page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/9171 Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 23:03:12 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel Message-ID: <199706070603.AA08623@ednet1.orednet.org> Riordan wrote: >Thanks for the reply. The molds are very similar, almost as if the >Minicraft/ESCI is a copy of the Revell but with pronounced replicative >fading... >I guess everyone must be modeling or my server is not 100%, as it's been >unusually quiet the last day or so. I'm not sure of the exact relationship between the Revell and the ESCI(originally Eldon) 1/72 kits but clearly the latter is _not_ merely a copy of the former. For one, the layout of the parts on the sprues is completely different which precludes, I would think, the Eldon molds from being a copy of the Revell molds. And, there are some subtle and not so subtle differences in the parts as well - the most noticible being the square wing tips on the Eldon Spad as opposed to the earlier style of rounded wing tips on the Revell kit. The style of radiator is different on the Eldon Fokker VII than on the Revell and the Eldon Camel has wing struts more approaching the correct length as opposed to Revell's overly long examples. There are some differences in the SE.5a moldings also as well as the generic cockpit "plug" and the raised "spokes" on the wheels for all the Eldon molds which do not appear on the Revell kits. All in all, there seem to be sufficient detail differences to preclude the Eldon molds from being copies of Revell's parts either. Yet there remains an unmistakable similarity between the two sets of kits. I've got no definitive answer to account for this similarity but my best guess at present is that both sets of molds were prepared from the same sets of drawings - maybe even from Revell's own drawings surreptiously copied and smuggled to Hong Kong for use by Eldon's pirate mold makers (never hurts to add a bit of international intrigue to the plot to spice up the reader's interest, eh?) :-) Cheers and all, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - - Cave ab homine unius libri! - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 01:51:09 -0500 From: Lee Mensinger To: wwi Subject: Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel Message-ID: <339904CD.534@sat.net> Bill Shatzer wrote: > > Riordan wrote: > > >Thanks for the reply. The molds are very similar, almost as if the > >Minicraft/ESCI is a copy of the Revell but with pronounced replicative > >fading... > >I guess everyone must be modeling or my server is not 100%, as it's been > >unusually quiet the last day or so. > > I'm not sure of the exact relationship between the Revell and the > ESCI(originally Eldon) 1/72 kits but clearly the latter is _not_ > merely a copy of the former. > > For one, the layout of the parts on the sprues is completely different > which precludes, I would think, the Eldon molds from being a > copy of the Revell molds. > > And, there are some subtle and not so subtle differences in the > parts as well - the most noticible being the square wing tips on > the Eldon Spad as opposed to the earlier style of rounded wing > tips on the Revell kit. The style of radiator is different on > the Eldon Fokker VII than on the Revell and the Eldon Camel has > wing struts more approaching the correct length as opposed to > Revell's overly long examples. There are some differences > in the SE.5a moldings also as well as the generic cockpit > "plug" and the raised "spokes" on the wheels for all the Eldon > molds which do not appear on the Revell kits. > > All in all, there seem to be sufficient detail differences to > preclude the Eldon molds from being copies of Revell's parts > either. Yet there remains an unmistakable similarity between > the two sets of kits. I've got no definitive answer to account > for this similarity but my best guess at present is that both > sets of molds were prepared from the same sets of drawings - > maybe even from Revell's own drawings surreptiously copied and > smuggled to Hong Kong for use by Eldon's pirate mold makers > (never hurts to add a bit of international intrigue to the > plot to spice up the reader's interest, eh?) > > :-) > > Cheers and all, > > > > -- > - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - > > - Cave ab homine unius libri! - The obvious eludes us all at one time or another. If the Kits are really accurate... They should all look alike... Shouldn't they? Lee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 05:36:49 -0400 From: Geoff Smith To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Comparative silence Message-ID: <199706070537_MC2-1805-95E3@compuserve.com> Riordan wrote: >I guess everyone must be modeling or my server is not 100%, as it's been= unusually quiet the last day or so.< Just quiet, leaves a big hole in your life doesn't it? = The drawings you sent arrived this a.m., thanks. Very, very, very helpful= =2E Can you give me details of the original book, please Regards, Geoff. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 03:52:58 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: Meikraft Gotha Message-ID: <10525858002545@KAIEN.COM> After putting out the call for an Aeroclub Felixstowe, I thought of other large 1/72 aircraft I still haven't got and was reminded of one that I ordered almost two years ago. Has anyone heard of the status of the Meikraft Gotha kit? I received a mailing from them around August of 1995 stating that they were releasing a 1/72 Gotha in the near future. Praising my good fortune in finding such an interesting type, I immediately sent off a money order . Now two years later still no word on it's release. I have long since lost the receipt and am wondering if I should also write off my Gotha (but it would go so nicely with the IM, HP and Felixstowe - which I am still looking for) Thanks Bob bpearson@kaien.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 07:24:31 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Meikraft Gotha Message-ID: <19970607.072441.14062.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Sat, 7 Jun 1997 06:50:13 -0400 Bob Pearson writes: > After putting out the call for an Aeroclub Felixstowe, I thought > of other large 1/72 aircraft I still haven't got and was > reminded of one that I ordered almost two years ago. Has anyone > heard of the status of the Meikraft Gotha kit? I received a > mailing from them around August of 1995 stating that they were > releasing a 1/72 Gotha in the near future. Praising my good > fortune in finding such an interesting type, I immediately sent > off a money order . Now two years later still no word on it's > release. I have long since lost the receipt and am wondering if > I should also write off my Gotha (but it would go so nicely with > the IM, HP and Felixstowe - which I am still looking for) Bob, Bob, Bob...I realise you're new on the list, but you have just done the one thing we all have said over and over: never give your money direct to Meikraft. I did for the Lloyd Triplane (others on the list have, as well) and it took *five years* before we had product in hand. I believe it was *three years* until he had the Caproni ready. "The future" to Meikraft could mean tomorrow...or 2040... Too bad you lost your receipt. You could have sicked the Postal Service on him. You might not be out money - just yet - but please don't hold your breath for the model. We would hate to loose such a talented artist. ;-) Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 22:24:53 +1100 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: Re: Iron Duke Message-ID: <33994505.36DC@qld.mim.com.au> I wrote: > , > > Okay, so don't have a coronary. I'm thinking of building an old > favourite from my youth, the Airfix HMS Iron Duke. And a bunch of you replied. Sorry I haven't had the courtesy to thank you before this but am a bit preoccupied with local events. However thanks to Glen,Brad, Mark,Tom,Geoff, Carlos, Charles and Ken. I now have three of the recommended references on loan from local friends and most of the others are available in our State Library, so I'll check them out when time permits. Neat kit by the way, every bit as good as I recall it from maybe 25 years (?) ago. Regards Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 22:35:15 +1100 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: Re: Pfalz DXII refs Message-ID: <33994773.7142@qld.mim.com.au> Allan Wright wrote: > Shane Weier wrote: > > Some family problems aside, I am scheduled to be at the AWM in Canberra > > on 14 June. I have already sought special curatorial permission to take > > closeup photos of the Pfalz D.XII (and the Alb D.Va and SE-5a) at the > > AWM. Assuming I get it, I'll be trying to take a set of shots of the > > cockpit of course, and will share them with the group via Alan's web > > page if he's willing. > > To misquote a famous actor: "If you send them they will scan". > > I'll put them up. > GDay folks. Okay, heres the story. Thanks to the assistance of the PR manager at the AWM, I now have permission to spend several hours inside the barriers at the AWM and at the Treloar Centre (restoration and storage facility) over next weekend, complete with an "information assistant" (yeah, security guard) and step ladder. I had intended to photograph principally with medium format colour slides but since there's some interest in my amateur photography, I'll take a 35mm camera as well and see what I can assemble in the way of cockpit and detail prints taken with modelling in mind. Because I have been cautioned against "commercial" use of the photos, I can't sell them to anyone but I can't see any problem with giving a set to those who asked and sending a set to Al to scan. You all might have to wait a while though, since expenses are high here at the moment Regards Shane ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:31:45 -0500 From: barrett@iplink.net (barrett) To: wwi Subject: Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel Message-ID: Riordan asked: >>Are these the same kit, or is the Revell the old crisp mold w/cooper >>bombs? >>-- I have the Revell, ESCI and Minicraft kits in front of me, and as other list members have already stated, the Minicraft is definately a knock-off of the ESCI design, though the parts are re-tooled and somewhat "clunkier." For instance, the tailplane of the Minicraft kit is very thick, and the raised pannels/ribbing around the cowling and rudder are very accentuated. My example also has some pretty brutal mold sinks. However, since the Minicraft is about half the price of the other two models, some shortcomings can be forgiven. HTH It's raining here in Toronto, so maybe gardening can give way to modeling this weekend...Yes! Kevin B. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:24:45 -0400 From: Geoff Smith To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Pfalz DXII refs Message-ID: <199706071125_MC2-180C-50E8@compuserve.com> Shane wrote: >I had intended to photograph principally with medium format colour slides but since there's some interest in my amateur photography, I'll take a 35mm camera as well and see what I can assemble in the way of cockpit and detail prints taken with modelling in mind. Because I have been cautioned against "commercial" use of the photos, I can't sell them to anyone but I can't see any problem with giving a set to those who asked and sending a set to Al to scan.< Probably "commercial use" relates to making a profit from them. Covering your expenses is probably legitimate. If Al puts 'em up on the Web page I= 'd be happy to download from there otherwise put me down for a set. I suppos= e the people most likely to need hard copies are those using company PC's a= nd facing restrictions on their use. Good luck and don't fall off the ladder till you've got all the photos. Regards, Geoff. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 11:14:28 -0500 From: Crofoot To: wwi Subject: Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970607111426.007a27d0@computerpro.com> At 12:43 AM 6/7/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Are these the same kit, or is the Revell the old crisp mold w/cooper >>bombs? >>-- >>Michelle and Riordan Goodwin > > I believe that the Minicraft kit is based upon the knock-off mold that >was used by Eldon Match Kits, Entex, and ESCI and possibly others. As far >as I have seen, the Revell molds have remained in use, off and on, only by >Revell and its German subsidiary. > > If any list member has information to the contrary, I'd appreciate >learning what it is. > >Charles > >hartc@spot.colorado.edu > > The story that I heard was that the Eldon/ESCI kits were basically knock offs of the Revell line with changes to avoid copyright problems. As far as the Minicraft kits are concerned, I'm quessing that they're Korean copies of the Japanese/Italian copy of the original Revell. Tim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 10:28:16 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Comparative silence Message-ID: <33999A30.6019@ricochet.net> Geoff Smith wrote: > > Riordan wrote: > > >I guess everyone must be modeling or my server is not 100%, as it's been= > > unusually quiet the last day or so.< > > Just quiet, leaves a big hole in your life doesn't it? = > > The drawings you sent arrived this a.m., thanks. Very, very, very helpful= > =2E > Can you give me details of the original book, please > > Regards, > > Geoff. The Book is "Scale Aircraft Drawings Vol. 1- World War 1" c.1986 by Air Age Inc. ISBN 0-911295-02-X. I got it for $15.00 US, and it's probably not worth any more than that. The plan drawings date back as far as 1947, and are not particularly accurate. Don't know enough to comment on the engine/gun section in the back, other than they look OK to me. HTH, Riordan -- Michelle and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Michelle's Home/Resume Page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/9171 Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 10:32:41 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel Message-ID: <33999B39.7681@ricochet.net> barrett wrote: > > Riordan asked: > > >>Are these the same kit, or is the Revell the old crisp mold w/cooper > >>bombs? > >>-- > > I have the Revell, ESCI and Minicraft kits in front of me, and as other > list members have already stated, the Minicraft is definately a knock-off > of the ESCI design, though the parts are re-tooled and somewhat "clunkier." > For instance, the tailplane of the Minicraft kit is very thick, and the > raised pannels/ribbing around the cowling and rudder are very accentuated. > My example also has some pretty brutal mold sinks. However, since the > Minicraft is about half the price of the other two models, some > shortcomings can be forgiven. HTH > > It's raining here in Toronto, so maybe gardening can give way to modeling > this weekend...Yes! > > Kevin B. I saw the ESCI Camel at a shop for $4.00 and the Minicraft for $3.00 just yesterday... -- Michelle and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Michelle's Home/Resume Page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/9171 Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 10:35:30 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Academy/Minicraft vs. current Revell Camel Message-ID: <33999BE2.6802@ricochet.net> > The story that I heard was that the Eldon/ESCI kits were basically knock > offs of the Revell line with changes to avoid copyright problems. As far > as the Minicraft > kits are concerned, I'm quessing that they're Korean copies of the > Japanese/Italian > copy of the original Revell. > > Tim Thats replicative fading for you! -- Michelle and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Michelle's Home/Resume Page: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/9171 Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 12:57:46 -0500 From: phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) To: Subject: Re: Pfalz DXII refs Message-ID: <19970607175750.AAA14277@default> Shane, Within the next few days, I'll be going to a school in Arizona for about six weeks . I won't have access to a computer, so I won't be able to keep up with your picture project. I'll be unsubscribing while I'm gone to prevent the mailbox overflow and system administrator problems. If possible, I'd like to get hard copies once I get back. If you would send an email with the photo reprint and postage costs, I'd be more than happy to pay those prior to you sending them or to reimburse you after. I hope it won't be too much trouble, but if it is then I certainly understand. Best Wishes, Paul Howard phoward@abilene.com ---------- > From: Geoff Smith > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Pfalz DXII refs > Date: Saturday, June 07, 1997 10:34 AM > > Shane wrote: > > >I had intended to photograph principally with medium format colour > slides but since there's some interest in my amateur photography, I'll > take a 35mm camera as well and see what I can assemble in the way of > cockpit and detail prints taken with modelling in mind. Because I have > been cautioned against "commercial" use of the photos, I can't sell them > to anyone but I can't see any problem with giving a set to those who > asked and sending a set to Al to scan.< > > Probably "commercial use" relates to making a profit from them. Covering > your expenses is probably legitimate. If Al puts 'em up on the Web page I= > 'd > be happy to download from there otherwise put me down for a set. I suppos= > e > the people most likely to need hard copies are those using company PC's a= > nd > facing restrictions on their use. > > Good luck and don't fall off the ladder till you've got all the photos. > > Regards, > > Geoff. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 572 *********************