WWI Digest 569 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Another interesting book to read by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 2) Re: Another interesting book to read by The Shannons 3) Re: Iron Duke by Geoff Smith 4) Re: Iron Duke by Carlos Valdes 5) Re: Librarian's video selections: The Lighthorsemen by Shane Weier 6) Re: Spray paint match for CDL? by BStett3770@aol.com 7) Re: FMP by DavidL1217@aol.com 8) Re: Book to Read by DavidL1217@aol.com 9) Re: Librarian's video selections: The Lighthorsemen by DavidL1217@aol.com 10) Re: Book to Read by "Brad Gossen" 11) Re: Another interesting book to read by mbittner@juno.com 12) Re: frustrations and so forth by mbittner@juno.com 13) Re: N-24bis by mbittner@juno.com 14) Re: Another interesting book to read by NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) 15) Re: Iron Duke by NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) 16) OTF Website by Bob Pearson 17) Re: N-24bis by "Don Rinker" 18) Re: frustrations and so forth by Kevin Wenker 19) FMP French Book ISBN # by aew (Allan Wright) 20) Re: FMP French Book ISBN # by "Eli Geher" 21) Re: N-24bis by Patrick Padovan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:07:33 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: Another interesting book to read Message-ID: <199706031810.NAA15369@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> Kent wrote: > Now as an aside, if there are any naval builders in the group, can > they supply me with a list of ships in 1/700th scale that is > available. I already know that most of these will be resin kits. > Which stores do you buy your ships from? > You may want to check out the NAVIS web page. This is devoted to ship models of all sorts, and is really a great site. Their URL is: http://home.earthlink.net/~timeelapsed/ They have several on-line catalogs and other links for ship builders. Paul There are 2 types of masking tape--one that won't stay on, and the other that won't come off. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 13:20:47 -0500 From: The Shannons To: wwi Subject: Re: Another interesting book to read Message-ID: <3394607F.6D44@ix.netcom.com> Paul Schwartzkopf wrote: > > Kent wrote: > > > Now as an aside, if there are any naval builders in the group, can > > they supply me with a list of ships in 1/700th scale that is > > available. I already know that most of these will be resin kits. > > Which stores do you buy your ships from? > > > > You may want to check out the NAVIS web page. This is devoted to > ship models of all sorts, and is really a great site. Their URL is: > > http://home.earthlink.net/~timeelapsed/ > > They have several on-line catalogs and other links for ship builders. > > Paul > > There are 2 types of masking tape--one that won't stay on, and the other that won't come off. Correction on my previous post: The shop is Pacific Front Hobbies, snail mail: Pacific Front Hobbies 11804 NE 138th St. Kirkland, WA 98034 Phone: (206)821-2564 FAX: (206)821-9034 They have many WWI kits, of all combatants, and are knowledgeable about their stock and genera. I know they are on=line, but I can't find their E-mail or URL at the moment. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:26:11 -0400 From: Geoff Smith To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Iron Duke Message-ID: <199706031526_MC2-17C4-2824@compuserve.com> Shane, You probably have all this but FWIW: Iron Duke Class Battleships (as designed) Displacement: 30,380 tons full war load Dimensions: Length 622 ft 6 ins Beam 90 ft Draught 29 ft 6 ins Propulsion: Steam turbines, 18 boilers,4 shafts, 29,000 hp, 21.25 knots Crew: 995 - 1022 (wartime) Armament: 5 x dual 13.5"; 12 x single 6"; 2 x single 3" AA; 4 x 21" Torpe= do tubes. Armour : 4-12" belt;.1-2.5" deck; 3-10", barbettes; 112, turrets. Built by Potsmouth Naval Dockyard, laid down 12 Jan 1912, launched 12 Oct= 1912 & completed Mar 1914. Paid off 1929 under Washington Treaty & converted to training ship 1931 with two turrets (don't know which) & armour removed. Converted to depot ship 1939 with all main guns removed a= nd used for shore defences. Sold 2 Mar 1946. Sister ships were Marlborough, Benbow & Emperor of India (ex Delhi), laid= down, launched and completed in that order. All survived WWI. All were laid down between 12 Jan 1912 & 31 May 1912 and completed betwee= n Mar 1914 & Nov 1914 and though they were built at different yards, probab= ly didn't differ much. Regards, Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 17:05:30 -0400 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Iron Duke Message-ID: <3394871A.64C4@conted.gatech.edu> I have two references, both OOP: 1. The Fighting Ship of the Royal Navy 897-1984 rev. ed. from Military Press, by EHH Archibald. P. 167 has a profile of the ID. 2. Battleships and Battlecruisers 1905-1970 from Doubleday, by Siegfried Breyer. PP. 131-33 have data and profiles on the class, including 1916 and 1935 profiles of the ID. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 07:47:53 +1100 From: Shane Weier To: wwi Subject: Re: Librarian's video selections: The Lighthorsemen Message-ID: <339482CE.3A2@qld.mim.com.au> Michelle and Rory Goodwin wrote: > > Cracking good film about the Australian units and their part in the > taking of Beersheba. There's a bit of strafing by an indeterminate Pasha > 2-seater and even a spot of armor. Can't vouch for its accuracy but > highly recommended. For what it's worth, it's a good dramatisation of the events, the "historical" parts follow the official history version quite closely. And it's pretty entertaining as well. Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Spray paint match for CDL? Message-ID: <970603184542_-94711472@emout03.mail.aol.com> Try Model Master Desert Storm Modern Desert Sand Spray. I was too lazy to pull out the airbrush and used it on my Sopwith Baby Looks real good. Barry Rosemont Hobby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:17:42 -0400 (EDT) From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: FMP Message-ID: <970603191600_588448714@emout15.mail.aol.com> Albatros and Fokker may take up a large volume each. But I am not sure DFW, LVG and Kondor could carry as much ink! I would imagine that each volume will take several manufacturers alphbetically. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:28:33 -0400 (EDT) From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Book to Read Message-ID: <970603192707_22827548@emout17.mail.aol.com> From: The Ministry of Ripping Yarns I picked up an interesting pot boiler from the local library: "Bomber Patrol" by William Stanley. The book is about a night bombing squadron of FE2's in the Spring of 1918. This is loosely based on 100 Squadron. It has thin character development. It features a young leutenant, Chritopher Robsen, typical stereotypes and a bit of frolicing with a lady volunteer ambualnce driver. (Hear, Hear) The main characters are the aircraft: the Fee's including the one with the POM gun, evil Gotha's and the like. A good summer read and not by Michael Chrighton! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:30:03 -0400 (EDT) From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Librarian's video selections: The Lighthorsemen Message-ID: <970603192912_577160917@emout11.mail.aol.com> It has the best military scene ever filmed: The charging of Beersheeba! Se the film just for this scene alone! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:48:26 -0400 From: "Brad Gossen" To: Subject: Re: Book to Read Message-ID: <199706032351.TAA21264@enigma.globalserve.net> Not sure but this sounds a lot like 'One Spring in Picardy' by Stanley. First published in 1973 then as a Corgi paperback in 1974 and again in 1981. It sounds like they've changed the title and released it again! As I recall a most 'ripping yarn' right up there with 'War Story' another 'Fee' tale by Derek Robinson. ---------- > From: DavidL1217@aol.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Book to Read > Date: Tuesday, June 03, 1997 7:32 PM > > From: The Ministry of Ripping Yarns > > I picked up an interesting pot boiler from the local library: "Bomber > Patrol" by William Stanley. > > The book is about a night bombing squadron of FE2's in the Spring of 1918. > This is loosely based on 100 Squadron. It has thin character development. > It features a young leutenant, Chritopher Robsen, typical stereotypes and a > bit of frolicing with a lady volunteer ambualnce driver. (Hear, Hear) The > main characters are the aircraft: the Fee's including the one with the POM > gun, evil Gotha's and the like. > > A good summer read and not by Michael Chrighton! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:59:20 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Another interesting book to read Message-ID: <19970603.203018.16358.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:05:53 -0400 "Paul Schwartzkopf" writes: >You may want to check out the NAVIS web page. This is devoted to >ship models of all sorts, and is really a great site. Their URL is: > >http://home.earthlink.net/~timeelapsed/ > >They have several on-line catalogs and other links for ship builders. Since there can't be that many - unfortunately - anybody willing to email all know ship models, and I'll put it into a web page? Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:58:14 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: frustrations and so forth Message-ID: <19970603.203018.16358.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:28:06 -0400 "Erik" writes: >> Though I do wish Bittner would stick a sock in it about his weenie >1:72 fixation ;-) >> > Oooh! Oooh! An insult to the entire Brotherhood! Well, then, I hope >Goodyear files a lawsuit against you for contriving to impersonate >their copyrighted Company blimp with all of those hugely enormous >Balloon Scale models of yours! ;^) > > Heh heh heh.... what's their phone number...? ROTFL!! Thanks, Erik, for sticking up for THE scale, the ONE TRUE scale. Even though we're outnumbered, we're not out-gunned. ;-) Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 20:30:12 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: N-24bis Message-ID: <19970603.203018.16358.4.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:16:17 -0400 drinker@fast.net ( Don Rinker) writes: >Not to belabor a minor point, but isn't that a bit of >a stretch to caliper two 1/72 drawing in a printed >book, which may not even have been reproduced to scale >or possibly distorted? Possibly. However, 1 to 1.5 mm is greater (in my mind) than a drawing should be in error. >I rechecked Windsocks Datafile special today and is says >nothing about an increase in chord in the N-24bis wing. >In fact it repeats the same data from the other source. >Exact same wing areas, span of the n-24bis on 1 1/2" >lonnger than the 17bis, which if the area calculations are >right, make the 24bis chord microscopically narrower. :-) Well, one thing's for sure: the trailing edge on the 24 is more straight than the 17. Maybe that's where I see the chord difference? >Are you sure you're not confusing "chord" and "camber" >as is mentioned as the only significant difference in >both sources. >THe datafile book didnt even bother to do a planform view >of the 17bis since it reference the 24bis as being identical. Well, I think that they didn't provide the view because it's the same as the "straight" Nie.17. Ok, I guess we have differing view points. However, we both agree that the 24 wing is a little longer, correct? ;-) Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:41:17, -0500 From: NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) To: wwi Subject: Re: Another interesting book to read Message-ID: <199706040141.VAA60394@mime4.prodigy.com> -- [ From: Kenneth Hagerup * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- > Correction on my previous post: > > The shop is Pacific Front Hobbies, snail mail: > > Pacific Front Hobbies > 11804 NE 138th St. > Kirkland, WA 98034 > > Phone: (206)821-2564 > FAX: (206)821-9034 I recommend Pacific Front Hobbies for all things naval. Bill is very knowledgeable about what's available, and consistently provides excellent service. Ken -- npwe28a@prodigy.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 21:41:15, -0500 From: NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) To: wwi Subject: Re: Iron Duke Message-ID: <199706040141.VAA47042@mime4.prodigy.com> -- [ From: Kenneth Hagerup * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- Most have already been mentioned, but here's my list of references on the Iron Duke: Encyclopedia of Sea Warfare from the First Ironclads to the Present Day Fighting Ships of World Wars One and Two Jane's Fighting Ships of World War I The Fighting Ship in the Royal Navy 897-1984 The Complete Encyclopedia of Battleships Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships 1906-1921 Encyclopedia of the World's Warships I also think I heard that Loren Perry may have a P/E set either complete or in the works for this kit. Ken -- npwe28a@prodigy.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:10:11 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list Subject: OTF Website Message-ID: <02101132503222@KAIEN.COM> I was just going through some assorted links last night and checked in on OTF. They have updated their website and have much new material added.... including profiles by Chuck Stern, Alan Durkota, Aaron Weaver and myself from the recent issue of OTF. These can be found in their markings section at the following link (to those of you who don't have the issue I did PHYLLIS, LULU and MIZZI) http://www.OverTheFront.com/SiteMill.html/07Colors.html Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:56:01 -0400 From: "Don Rinker" To: Subject: Re: N-24bis Message-ID: <199706040257.WAA05876@post1.fast.net> ---------- > From: mbittner@juno.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: N-24bis > Date: Tuesday, June 03, 1997 9:33 PM > > On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:16:17 -0400 drinker@fast.net ( Don Rinker) writes: > > >Not to belabor a minor point, but isn't that a bit of > >a stretch to caliper two 1/72 drawing in a printed > >book, which may not even have been reproduced to scale > >or possibly distorted? > > Possibly. However, 1 to 1.5 mm is greater (in my mind) than a drawing > should be in error. I assume you've never built anything from plans eh? Just pop the pieces out of the box and lay em on top of the drafting Gods meticulously accurate engravings to pronunce judgement on the worth of the "kit". ( for the humor impared this is said jokingly) There's a big discussion going on in the R/C newgroups about a lot of newbies to scratch building R/C models from plans for the finding out about distortion. Guys winding up with on wing longer than the other. > > Ok, I guess we have differing view points. However, we both agree that > the 24 wing is a little longer, correct? ;-) YES oh YES!!!! THe N-24bis wingspan is a whopping 1" longer ........ BTW, THis all started when you claimed the the 24bis had "much larger" chord.I still can't fathom two wing, one only 1" longer, with a "much larger" chord having the exact same wing area as the 17bis wing.... Also, Please note ( this may be a factor)... If you're comparing the 1/72 plane view of the 17 with the 24bis wing plan in the new FMP book, For the 17 you're looking at the WRONG wing. That's the planform of an N-17 wing ,not of a 17bis wing. The 17 bis wing is not illustrated in the FMP book..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 22:50:23 -0500 From: Kevin Wenker To: wwi Subject: Re: frustrations and so forth Message-ID: <3394E5FF.6469@interaccess.com> mbittner@juno.com wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:28:06 -0400 "Erik" writes: > > >> Though I do wish Bittner would stick a sock in it about his weenie > >1:72 fixation ;-) > >> > > Oooh! Oooh! An insult to the entire Brotherhood! Well, then, I hope > >Goodyear files a lawsuit against you for contriving to impersonate > >their copyrighted Company blimp with all of those hugely enormous > >Balloon Scale models of yours! ;^) > > > > Heh heh heh.... what's their phone number...? > > ROTFL!! Thanks, Erik, for sticking up for THE scale, the ONE TRUE scale. > Even though we're outnumbered, we're not out-gunned. ;-) > > Matt > mbittner@juno.com Matt, Don't I recognize the latter statement as a quote from Davy Crockett? We of the REAL scale don't need to be so defensive. Res Ipsa Loquitur. Kevin W. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:41:27 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: FMP French Book ISBN # Message-ID: <199706041341.JAA01258@pease1.sr.unh.edu> I want to order the FMP French book from a local store where I have a large gift certificate. Can anyone get me the ISBN # off their copy? Thanks, Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 11:21:08 -0500 From: "Eli Geher" To: Subject: Re: FMP French Book ISBN # Message-ID: <199706041625.LAA08458@sh1.ro.com> ISBN # is 0-9637110-4-0 . Eli Geher ---------- > From: Allan Wright > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: FMP French Book ISBN # > Date: Wednesday, June 04, 1997 8:42 AM > > I want to order the FMP French book from a local store where I have a large > gift certificate. Can anyone get me the ISBN # off their copy? > > Thanks, > Al > > ============================================================================ === > Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! > University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- > Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu > ============================================================================ === ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:24:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: N-24bis Message-ID: Greetings! Re the Nieuport 17bis/24bis wing controversy: I have to agree with Matt. The 17/17bis had the same wing, while the 17bis shared the same fuselage as the 24,24bis,25 & 27. This wing had greater camber and a slightly increased area, including broader chord and slightly increased span, as well as those nifty rounded ailerons. The French A/C book doesn't do a great job of spelling this out, but it helps to read the sections on the 25 and 27 as well. You can see the difference if you compare the drawings of the 17/17bis with those of the 24,25 or 27. Significantly more of the lower wing is visible below and behind the trailing edge of the upper wing of the 17/17bis, when compared to that of the 24-27. Nieuport Fighters vol.2 says that the fuselage- not wings- of the 17bis is virtually identical to that of the 24-27. It is mentioned in the text that the upper mainplane of the 24/24bis had increased area over that of the 17, and that the new wing was not interchangeable with that of the 17. To add to the confusion, Nungesser flew a 17bis with the rounded ailerons of the 24-27! Incidently, Roseparts offer a 24/27 kit with the correct wing, as well as fuselage,cowl and tail sections, wheels, and Lewis for the British version. I don't know if the wing is available as a seperate item. Finally, I'll mention that the 24/27 is one of the Horka kits I've ordered from Silverbirds. When it arrives, I'll post a review. Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 569 *********************