WWI Digest 561 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: color systems by "Randy J. Ray" 2) Re: MVR aircraft,previously Camel/Spad XIII by Geoff Smith 3) Classic Planes Staaken by "Joseph Gentile" 4) Re: Classic Planes Staaken by jsthorn@mindspring.com (Jesse Thorn) 5) Camel Experts Wanted: by Patrick Padovan 6) Re: MVR aircraft,previously Camel/Spad XIII by Bill Bacon 7) Staaken kit by Charles Hart 8) Eldon Match Kit by John Sanders 9) Re: Eldon Match Kit by Patrick Padovan 10) Re: A couple of questions: by Franco Poloni 11) Re: MVR aircraft,previously Camel/Spad XIII by Alberto Rada 12) Re: MVR aircraft,previously Camel/Spad XIII by The Shannons 13) Re: Glencoe Spad Book by BStett3770@aol.com 14) Re: Buttons by BStett3770@aol.com 15) 12 Squadron Markings by bciciora@Megsinet.net (William Ciciora) 16) Re: Missing artwork from OTF 12/1 by mbittner@juno.com 17) Re: Camel Experts Wanted: by mbittner@juno.com 18) Re: Classic Planes Staaken by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 19) Re: Classic Planes Staaken by Charles Hart 20) Re: Eldon Match Kit by Charles Hart 21) Re: 12 Squadron Markings by Bob Pearson 22) Re: MVR aircraft,previously Camel/Spad XIII by The Shannons 23) Re: 12 Squadron Markings by Bob Pearson 24) Hannover colors, help again! by "S.M. Head" 25) HIT Kits by Bill Bacon 26) Re: color systems by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 12:39:33 -0600 From: "Randy J. Ray" To: wwi Subject: Re: color systems Message-ID: <199705281839.MAA22671@tremere.ecte.uswc.uswest.com> > > How 'bout ya' share the address of the web page? Thanks. > http://www.meteorprod.com Randy -- =============================================================================== Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept." --Calvin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:52:35 -0400 From: Geoff Smith To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: MVR aircraft,previously Camel/Spad XIII Message-ID: <199705281452_MC2-176D-87B2@compuserve.com> Alberto wrote: >(Enormous snip.) >SALUDOS Alberto, it took me long enough to read so what the hell time did you get= to bed last night? (BG) Regards Geoff. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:40:37 -0500 From: "Joseph Gentile" To: "WWI Mail list" Subject: Classic Planes Staaken Message-ID: <199705281942.OAA12214@Walden.MO.NET> Can any list member comment on this kit? It is listed in Hannant's catalog (thanks Geoff) as discontinued but currently in stock. Is it worth pursuing? Your comments are as always very much welcome. Thank you, Joe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:14:40 -0400 From: jsthorn@mindspring.com (Jesse Thorn) To: wwi Subject: Re: Classic Planes Staaken Message-ID: >Can any list member comment on this kit? It is listed in Hannant's catalog >(thanks Geoff) as discontinued but currently in stock. Is it worth >pursuing? Your comments are as always very much welcome. I have an unbuilt sample of this kit. It is BIG and will require special reinforcement of the wings and fuselage. The rib detail on the wings is not very good - ribs are represented by indentations and not raised lines. You will have to fill alllllllllll of the rib stations and then add your own from plastic strip, etc. The detail on the fuselage is mushy and will need to be sanded off and replaced. I would suggest reading the two part Windsock article on building this kit written by Ray Rimmel. The kit will take a lot of work but it would look really cool when done. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:12:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Camel Experts Wanted: Message-ID: Greetings! Okay, so I decided that my next project would be a Revell Camel (1/72), and I decided I'd go pretty much straight out of the box. . .Then I dug out an old kit and opened it up and started to cut off the sprue and clean it up. . .well, you know how it goes! First, I decided I'd better shorten the struts and get rid of the troughs in the underside of the upper and topside of the lower wings. Then, I decided it was pointless to do the kit w/out an interior, so I found a Roseparts Camel interior tucked away. And then I looked at the cowling, which has the engine molded on, and decided that would have to go. I also have a Roseparts resin Camel cowl which I'd completely forgotten about (and by the way, thank you Rosemont!) so I'll use that and an Aeroclub metal engine, Le Rhone or Clerget or Bentley, depending on which a/c I decide to do. . . How does an out-of-the-box project turn into this? I remember doing tons- well, okay, maybe a pound or two- of Revell Camels when I was a kid, and being perfectly happy with the out-of-the-box kit. Perhaps this is where the saying, "ignorance is bliss," comes from? Okay, so I'm reading the Camel Datafile, and I see a caption to a photo of a Le Rhone Camel with a Clerget cowling inside the front cover, and the caption says ". . .Clerget cowlings are unsuitable for Le Rhone engined machines. . .," But to me, every cowl in the photos, scale drawings and color profiles looks the same! So: Camel experts: is there a significant difference that would be obvious in 1/72 scale? If I put a Le Rhone engine inside the Roseparts cowl, for example, will it come back to haunt me later? What about a Bentley? Am I just worrying too darn much over nothing? And while I'm asking, are there any other changes, alterations, etc. that I should consider making to the kit while I'm at it? I plan on adding an Aldiss, Rotheram pump, etc. Any other suggestions? And by the way, any ideas why J.M.Bruce hardly mentions the Bentley engined Camel in the datafile? (under its original designation of AR1) Maybe I'm crazy, but I sem to recall reading elsewhere that the Bentley engined Camels came to be considered the "pick off the litter," so to speak, of Camel production. Anyway, thanks for any help you can provide. Going slowly (or NOT so slowly!) crazy, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:15:00 -0500 From: Bill Bacon To: wwi Subject: Re: MVR aircraft,previously Camel/Spad XIII Message-ID: <338C9244.7F26@netjava.net> Tom Werner Hansen wrote: HUGE SNIP My recollection of the color I saw at the Royal Canadian Military Institute was, upon looking at my FS 595B, very close to FS 595B 21136. This goes back a few years but my eyes can't be too bad as Tom has come up with the same number. The Canadian sample is protected in a special case and, if I remember correctly, lighted by special lights to prevent color change. I agree that between the famous crash and the viewing of any samples there could be and undoubtedly was some color shift. All that any of us can do is give our impression of what we have seen. I agree with Charles Hartwhen he states what FS 595(x) is. It is the Standard by which the Federal Government defines, in their contracts, the color of paint they want. I does not in any way shape or form attempt to be the "sine qua non" in color definition. That said, it is a point of reference available to all and at areasonable price. To properly discuss colors there must be a starting point and, amongst modelers in this country, FS 595(x) is as good a starting place as any. We must above all realize that it does not nor does it purport to define all colors. Cheers, Bill Bill Bacon wbacon@netjava.net > > I cross-referenced the Methuen and FS 595a and found the following: > Methuen 9(C-D)8 is pretty close to FS 595a 21136. The Methuen colour is > a little lighter, so to compensate for that + scale effect one should > lighten the 21136 a little. > The idea of using Railroad HC.137 doesn't look so hot. I only have a > printet colour chart, not paint chips, but on that chart the HR.137 is > much too light and goes too much towards scarlet. If one can find the > Railroad colours I suggest HR.153 Erdbeerrot (Strawberry red) as a > pretty decent colour (maybe with a touch of brown). > > Tom W. Hansen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 15:01:05 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Staaken kit Message-ID: >Can any list member comment on this kit? It is listed in Hannant's catalog >(thanks Geoff) as discontinued but currently in stock. Is it worth >pursuing? Your comments are as always very much welcome. > >Thank you, > >Joe For the record, the 1/72 scale vac form kit of the Zeppelin Staaken was produced by Contrail, not Classic Plane. I recently found one from an estate sale for US$35.00, but it is long out of production. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:22:44 -0500 From: John Sanders To: wwi Subject: Eldon Match Kit Message-ID: <338CA224.7CB3@cland.net> I have spent the last few months being educated about current WWI models by quietly reading the list. I have been delighted to discover lozenge decals and more accurate kits. Pegasus, Eduard, and most recently a DML DVII have been added to the collection. Last night I uncovered my stash of Eldon kits from about 1970. Five planes including a Fokker DVII, Albatros DIII, SE5a, Spad XIII, and Sopwith Camel. Comparing them to Datafile drawings the Albatros wings appear to be the least accurate. All but the DVII (having hand painted lozenge) are unbuilt, but the decals have yellowed. The list price was $.39, but Radio Shack sold them for $.19 each! How many different kits were available and were any later day kits released using these molds? Thanks, John Sanders ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:30:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Padovan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Eldon Match Kit Message-ID: Greetings, john! You'll probably get a dozen replies, but here goes mine: I think you have all of the kits in the Eldon range, except the Nieuport 17c (at least, I don't think you mentioned it.) These kits were "based on" the Revell kits of the same a/c, originally released in the 60's. They are all currently available from Esci, and have previously been released by other companies. I remember buying them in packages that looked like big match books, called "Match Kits", for about the same price you mentioned. I think the match kits were by Eldon. I also recall an assortment of these kits being packaged in one box as a "Flying Circus." Regards, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrick Padovan Interlibrary Loan Associate Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001 415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838 Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 09:24:20 GMT From: Franco Poloni To: wwi Subject: Re: A couple of questions: Message-ID: <199705260924.JAA12735@lo.itline.it> At 16.13 27/05/97 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings, all: I've heard several positive comments on this list about >Skybirds models, but I'm not familiar with this company. Can someone >please tell me something about them, and where they might be obtained here >in the US? Patrick you can obtain the kits only through the producer itself,but I think they worth while. I can found only one shortcoming: the box, it is too weak, not sturdy enough for mail. here is the address of Skybirds '86 Skybirds '86 Orchard House, Chetnole Sherborne,Dorset DT9 6PE England Hope this helps you ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 17:55:18 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: MVR aircraft,previously Camel/Spad XIII Message-ID: <199705282155.RAA10884@fw.true.net> Someone had to stop the shooting at OK corral SALUDOS ALBERTO At 02:56 PM 28-05-97 -0400, you wrote: >Alberto wrote: > >>(Enormous snip.) > >>SALUDOS > >Alberto, it took me long enough to read so what the hell time did you get= > >to bed last night? (BG) > >Regards > >Geoff. > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:20:27 -0500 From: The Shannons To: wwi Subject: Re: MVR aircraft,previously Camel/Spad XIII Message-ID: <338CBDBB.6FC@ix.netcom.com> Kevin Wenker wrote: > > The Shannons wrote: > > > > Jack Berlien wrote: > > > > > > If it's OK to admit that we want to have one of the cliche all-red DRI in our > > > collection, then I'd like to ask a question which I haven't seen covered in the > > > last year or so and may be of interest to those who haven't built the MvR's > > > classic plane yet: what shade of red was it?? I suspect it wasn't your typical > > > bright insignia red; my imagination tells me it would look good in a very dark, > > > almost burgandy-blood red color and I think I have seen it illustrated this > > > way. I have also seen it described as vermillion, which I thought was more of > > > a lighter orange-red. > > > > > > I am building the DML kit and I would appreciate insights! > > > > > > Thanks and best regards, > > > > > > Jack > > > > -- > > While it is known that MvR had a crew chief who drove around to look for > > any stocks of red paint, there are descriptions that say it was a pretty > > bright red on the all-red 425/17 -- bright vermillion. > > > > My vote for any single red is roughly the color of the WWII German > > markings red -- a slightly pinkish-orange color. It is somewhat similar > > to the Italian markings red. > > > > I have read (and need to find the reference) that the first reds on the > > fuselage were the brown-red camouflage paint issued for the wings -- in > > large areas on the fuselage it looked too bright. > > > > When painting MvR's aircraft, I have used the red I described, > > dry-brushed with Testor's Italian Red from their car line and Humbrol's > > U.S. Insignia Red 31136, which is very pinkish-brown to my eyes, and #70 > > brick red (about 30079-30109 in tone). Then I feather in various areas > > to give the impression that different cans of paint went into the job. > > > > Looks ok to me, which I guess is the point. > > > > -- > > This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon > > at Shingend@ix.netcom.com > > > > History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. > > Can I ask a REAL dumb question which I've wonered about for a long time? > Why didn't MvR go to a D VII? There were out by '18 and he certainly > would have had dibs on whatever he wanted. Just curious. > Kevin W. -- He was waiting for them. The first D.VII's didn't hit the front until about two weeks after MvR was brought down (MvR killed April 21, 1918, first D.VII's in squadron use April 7-9, 1918). He had flown the prototypes in January and knew they would be winners, so he was ecking out the use of the Dr.I's until the D.VII arrived. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:06:53 -0400 (EDT) From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Glencoe Spad Book Message-ID: <970528210652_-895423291@emout19.mail.aol.com> Glence Spad book still available. Check your local Hobby shop If they don't have any , we have some in stock. Barry Rosemont hobby ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:11:08 -0400 (EDT) From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Buttons Message-ID: <970528211040_1175085639@emout09.mail.aol.com> Fantastic John. Don't forget to tell us what we owe you in $$$ Barry Rosemont Hobby ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:36:08 -0500 From: bciciora@Megsinet.net (William Ciciora) To: Subject: 12 Squadron Markings Message-ID: <19970529013342623.AAA121@ns1.megsinet.net> Do any of the fans of PC10 have info on 12 Squadron aircraft markings during mid 1918? I've decided to do my Aeroclub RE8 as one of Pithey & Rhodes machines. This was the crew that didn't realize the RE8 wasn't a fighter, and claimed 10 aircraft including 2 balloons, 3 2-seaters, 3 Pfalz D.IIIs, and 2 Fokker D.VIIs (!). Bill C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:05:10 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Missing artwork from OTF 12/1 Message-ID: <19970528.210528.8998.3.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 28 May 1997 10:24:55 -0400 Bob Pearson writes: > Thanks for the comments on my artwork in OTF 12/1. I had > frantically searched through the issue when it arrived but was > unable to find the related artwork (and three additional > photos). However in the same post was a letter from Jim > Streckfuss apologizing for the oversight and he promises that > they will be in the next issue. Speaking of which, those of you > still with hair - prepare to lose it when you see the next rear > cover. :-) Oooo...tooting our own horn? Well, you deserve it. The artwork is worth commenting on because it's so well done. Definitely can't wait to see the rest. Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:03:35 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Camel Experts Wanted: Message-ID: <19970528.210528.8998.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 28 May 1997 16:13:26 -0400 Patrick Padovan complains about AMS: > Greetings! Okay, so I decided that my next project would be a > Revell Camel (1/72), and I decided I'd go pretty much straight > out of the box. . .Then I dug out an old kit and opened it up > and started to cut off the sprue and clean it up. . .well, you > know how it goes! First, I decided I'd better shorten the struts > and get rid of the troughs in the underside of the upper and > topside of the lower wings. Then, I decided it was pointless to > do the kit w/out an interior, so I found a Roseparts Camel > interior tucked away. And then I looked at the cowling, which > has the engine molded on, and decided that would have to go. I > also have a Roseparts resin Camel cowl which I'd completely > forgotten about (and by the way, thank you Rosemont!) so I'll > use that and an Aeroclub metal engine, Le Rhone or Clerget or > Bentley, depending on which a/c I decide to do. . . My friend, you have discussed a typical way a project turns AMS. > How does an out-of-the-box project turn into this? I remember > doing tons- well, okay, maybe a pound or two- of Revell Camels > when I was a kid, and being perfectly happy with the > out-of-the-box kit. Perhaps this is where the saying, "ignorance > is bliss," comes from? No no no. Ignorance are the masses that build Bf-10whatevers. You, my friend, are at a higher plateu. You should be seeing people with wings soon...;-) > Okay, so I'm reading the Camel Datafile, and I see a caption to > a photo of a Le Rhone Camel with a Clerget cowling inside the > front cover, and the caption says ". . .Clerget cowlings are > unsuitable for Le Rhone engined machines. . .," But to me, every > cowl in the photos, scale drawings and color profiles looks the > same! So: > Camel experts: is there a significant difference that would be > obvious in 1/72 scale? If I put a Le Rhone engine inside the > Roseparts cowl, for example, will it come back to haunt me > later? What about a Bentley? Am I just worrying too darn much > over nothing? And while I'm asking, are there any other changes, > alterations, etc. that I should consider making to the kit while > I'm at it? I plan on adding an Aldiss, Rotheram pump, etc. Any > other suggestions? Go with whatever you think works. Then, if someone tries to call you on it, just ask for proof. Heck, I'm doing that now with my Nie.28...;-) > And by the way, any ideas why J.M.Bruce hardly mentions the > Bentley engined Camel in the datafile? (under its original > designation of AR1) Maybe I'm crazy, but I sem to recall reading > elsewhere that the Bentley engined Camels came to be considered > the "pick off the litter," so to speak, of Camel production. Interesting. Have you looked at the book _Camel: King of Combat_? If you're serious about the Camel, you *need* this book. Quite wonderful. I'll try to look up your Bentley question tonight, and get back with you (how do they fit such a large car under such a small cowl, anyway? ;-)). Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 19:04:29 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Classic Planes Staaken Message-ID: <338CE42D.60D0@ricochet.net> Joseph Gentile wrote: > > Can any list member comment on this kit? It is listed in Hannant's catalog > (thanks Geoff) as discontinued but currently in stock. Is it worth > pursuing? Your comments are as always very much welcome. > > Thank you, > > Joe I have an installment of a several-part article from Windsock on its construction. Anyone have whole article? -- Shelley and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin Shelley's Jewelry Gifts: http://www.silkroadjewels.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:33:55 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Classic Planes Staaken Message-ID: >Can any list member comment on this kit? It is listed in Hannant's catalog >(thanks Geoff) as discontinued but currently in stock. Is it worth >pursuing? Your comments are as always very much welcome. > >Thank you, > >Joe To the List, The Classic Planes kit is actually a model of the Zeppelin Staaken E4/20. This was a post-WWI transport aircraft powered by 4 Maybach engines. It was of all metal construction and a thoroughly modern aircraft, many years ahead of its time. According to a brief write up in "German Giants" by Grosz and Haddow, only one aircraft was built during 1919-1920. Its construction was monitored by the Interallied Control Commission and after a few test flights, during which it reached a top speed of 145 mph, it was ordered destroyed. This was not a military aircraft, but the ICC certainly realized its military potential. As far as I know, the couple of pages in Grosz and Haddow is all that has been published about this machine, this includes three photographs. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:37:36 -0700 From: Charles Hart To: wwi Subject: Re: Eldon Match Kit Message-ID: >I have spent the last few months being educated about current WWI models >by quietly reading the list. I have been delighted to discover lozenge >decals and more accurate kits. Pegasus, Eduard, and most recently a DML >DVII have been added to the collection. Last night I uncovered my stash >of Eldon kits from about 1970. Five planes including a Fokker DVII, >Albatros DIII, SE5a, Spad XIII, and Sopwith Camel. Comparing them to >Datafile drawings the Albatros wings appear to be the least accurate. >All but the DVII (having hand painted lozenge) are unbuilt, but the >decals have yellowed. The list price was $.39, but Radio Shack sold >them for $.19 each! >How many different kits were available and were any later day kits >released using these molds? > >Thanks, John Sanders These kits were also packaged in small white boxes with original artwork on them by ENTEX in the mid 1970's. They are identical to the Eldon Match Kits and ESCI offerings. I bought two grocery bags full of these from a hobby shop in South Carolina years ago for $0.49 each. This same shop also unloaded their stock of K&B WW I kits, $2.00 for single seaters, $3.00 for multi seaters/engines. Those were the days. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:46:42 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list , Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: 12 Squadron Markings Message-ID: <03464267211810@KAIEN.COM> Bill Unfortunately I am not much help here. I checked in my database of aircraft photos that have appeared in Windsock, OTF and C&C(GB/INT) and came up with only one of a 12 Sqn machine (out of approx 6000 photos). This is: RAF RE8 Main/A B Morris No 12 Sqn C&C(INT) 27/1:42 This photo is cut off part way through the marking behind the roundel so isn't much help either. You are probably aware that the serials of the relevant RE8s are B7715, E47 and F6097. Having built the AEROCLUB FE2b, I am looking forward to acquiring their RE8 someday. ---------- > From: bciciora@Megsinet.net (William Ciciora) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: 12 Squadron Markings > Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:39:29 -0400 > > Do any of the fans of PC10 have info on 12 Squadron aircraft markings > during mid 1918? I've decided to do my Aeroclub RE8 as one of Pithey & > Rhodes machines. This was the crew that didn't realize the RE8 wasn't a > fighter, and claimed 10 aircraft including 2 balloons, 3 2-seaters, 3 Pfalz > D.IIIs, and 2 Fokker D.VIIs (!). > > > Bill C. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:45:52 -0500 From: The Shannons To: wwi Subject: Re: MVR aircraft,previously Camel/Spad XIII Message-ID: <338CFBF0.40EA@ix.netcom.com> Bill Shatzer wrote: > > Kevin W. writes: > > > >Can I ask a REAL dumb question which I've wonered about for a long time? > > Why didn't MvR go to a D VII? There were out by '18 and he certainly > >would have had dibs on whatever he wanted. Just curious. > > Well, there weren't THAT many D.VIIs out there - at the end of > April, '18, there were only 19 D.VIIs in the front line inventory. > The number would have been even lower prior to April 21 - in fact, > it's not quite clear to me as to the exact date the D.VIIs were introduced > into front line service. It's possible _none_ were available prior > to April 21. > > Still, assuming a D.VII might have been available to MvR prior to > his death, perhaps the experiences with the Dr.I snapping its > mainspar when first introduced might not have fostered great > faith in newly introduced Fokker fighters and might have lead > to the belief that allowing someone else to discover whether or > not the D.VII airframe would remain intact under combat conditions > would be the more prudent course. > > Cheers, > > -- > - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - > > "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." I should never answer in a hurry. I made a mistake in my previous posting on this subject and put everything forward a month. Mea Culpa -- but I've already built a Glencoe Albatros. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:52:24 -0700 From: Bob Pearson To: WW1 Mailing list , Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: 12 Squadron Markings Message-ID: <03522411311817@KAIEN.COM> After checking the aircraft database, I thought wait a minute I recall an article on Pithey/Rhodes somewhere. A check of the article database reveals.... PITHEY AND RHODES-RE8 TEAM Norman L R Franks Biography Pithey, C R; Rhodes, H No 12 sqn RAF RE8 C&C(GB) 4/3:114 ---------- > From: bciciora@Megsinet.net (William Ciciora) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: 12 Squadron Markings > Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 21:39:29 -0400 > > Do any of the fans of PC10 have info on 12 Squadron aircraft markings > during mid 1918? I've decided to do my Aeroclub RE8 as one of Pithey & > Rhodes machines. This was the crew that didn't realize the RE8 wasn't a > fighter, and claimed 10 aircraft including 2 balloons, 3 2-seaters, 3 Pfalz > D.IIIs, and 2 Fokker D.VIIs (!). > > > Bill C. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:14:23 -0400 From: "S.M. Head" To: wwi Subject: Hannover colors, help again! Message-ID: <9705282258.aa19218@mail.iapc.net> Hi all! I know we've all covered the Hannover CL.III many times, but I don't have the datafile and was simply in need of some quick advice. I'm whipping up an Airfix 1/72 kit for a friend and want to avoid the overall lozenge. I noticed the nice blue fuselage on the datafile I borrowed long ago, and the fine model on the WWI website is beautiful- so to save me from having to buy a datafile, can anyone give me an approximate color match for the blue? Are there decals available for 1/72 scale Hannovers (long shot, eh?). How about that stripe- does it wrap all the way around? If this is beyond the scope of words, would anyone be willing to fax me or mail me a copy of this scheme? I'll be happy to pay whatever is necessary to cover costs. Thanks! Scott H --------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott M. Head (smh@iapc.net) IPMS/USA #32841 "Make it idiot proof - IPMS/Houston Scale Model Forum and someone will make a better idiot!" http://web-hou.iapc.net/~smh --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 00:18:33 -0500 From: Bill Bacon To: ww1 Modelers Subject: HIT Kits Message-ID: <338D11A9.6913@netjava.net> Fellow list members, While at Squadron Scalefest, I went off the deep end and bought five of the HIT Kits available. All are in munchkin scale. Follows a quick impression of each. Albatros D.III (Offag) series 253 The mouldings are in gray plastic and very well done with negligble flash. The detail is crisp and well defined. Two types of alierons and elevators are provided. The brass fret provides interior detals and wire wheel parts. There are no metal parts but the engine, prop,and struts on the plastic tree are well done. Instructions are of the step by step illustration type. Alternate choices are referenced by the (?) symbol we all know so well. There is no rigging diagram. All in all it appears to be very well done. The decals provide are excellent and in register. Decals and b&w profiles are provide for the following A/C: 1. Korporal Geza Kelsz, oveall dark gree w/ocre sworl which is provided on an excellent decal sheet. 2. Feldwebel Eugen Boensch 3. Stefan Stec 4. Stefan Stec (what was to becme Polish Checkerboard) 5. Oberleutenant Franz Peter 6. Another of Peter's a/c 7. Oberleutenant Friedrich Navratil (heart withh arrow through it) 8. Another of Navratil"s a/c. 9. November 1918 Yugoslav temporary insignia (roundel) 10. Another in temporary Yugoslav markings. 11. Air Force of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Sloveians, July 1926 12. Plane flown from Switzerland to Czechoslavakia (crashed enroute). Take your pick ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Albatros D.III (Offag) series 53/153 The same general review as above but the tree has more flash. Markings: 1. Godwin Brumoski 2. Oberleutenant Hans Facher 3. Hauptmann Godwin Brumoski (all reed with skull and sworl all over) 4. Kurt Gruber (star and cresent) 5. Leutenant Franz Graser 6. Oberleutenant Georg Kanzian 7. Oberleutenant Frank Linke-Crawford 8. A/C from Filk 6, Albania 1917 9. Friedrich Hefty 10. Another Friedrich Hefty 11. Leutenant Otto Schrimpl 12. Hauptmann Godwin Brumoski (all red with skull in 3 positions) Again, take your pick. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Albatros D.III (Offag) Series 253 Same comments as above but a very small amount of flash. Markings all Polish 1. No. 8 of 7th Squadron 2. No. 5 of 7th Sqoadron flown by Merion Cooper 3. No. 1 of 7th Squadron flown by Cedrick Fauntleroy 4. A/C of unknown unit. 5. A/C of 13 Squadron. 6. A/C of 13 Squadron. 7. A/C of 13 Squadron. 8. Typical a/c 9. A/C of pilot academy 10. A/C crashed by Major Serglusz Abzoftowski 11. A/.C repaired at Krakow Two more tomorrow. Riordan, these are right up your alley Cheers, Bill B. Bill Bacon wbacon@netjava.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 01:28:08 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: color systems Message-ID: <199705290828.AA06091@ednet1.orednet.org> Geoff writes: >Bill Shatzer wrote: >>>> (Petty aside - why do the damn Brits persist in giving Methuen >>> references when the FS standards are widely available at a reasonable= >>> cost as opposed to the Methuen book which is usually unavailable and,= >>> when available, costs approximately the same as a small sports car?)<= > > >Cheeky swine. I wouldn't care but you lot have only ever built one sports= >car (sorry two sports cars). Carroll Shelby's version of the superb BRITISH >AC Cobra and the Ford (Huh??) GT40 which admittedly was all your own work= >2E = >Definition of sports car: >MUST be British,French or Italian (in green, blue or red) , fast & must GO >ROUND CORNERS! (So don't go firing back with Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds & >Corvettes). Ah, I swore I'd never post an off-topic post but this 'un tempts me beyond redemption. The former owner of an MG (short, I think for "mostly garaged"), a British sports car of no distinction, I offer the following additions to your definition of a British sports car. 1. It has two Solex carburators which are not now, and never will be, in wonk! 2. It can only be serviced by folks in white coats named "Nigel" or "Colin" who talk funny and charge approximately $750 an hour to adjust the timing (or the two Solex carburators!) You will, of course, be visiting with Nigel and Colin on a frequent basis. And, whatever Nigel and Colin do, the carburators will _never_ be in proper wonk! 3. The heater is a joke and the instructions in the owner's manual are mostly intended to mislead you into believing that eventually, sometime or other, a whisp of hot air will come out of those doors. It won't! 4. The top (the "hood"?) is intended to keep out the rain and weather. It will not, of course, do so! (Do not be amazed at the mushrooms growing in your floor mats!) 5. If something breaks, be prepared to wait approximately four months while the union in jolly old England votes on whether or not to crank up the production line to produce the part _you_ need to get your "very British" sports car up and running again. If the union votes "no", be prepared to wait eight to twelve months for your part! Sigh! A mixture of good and bad memories! But, all things considered. I think British sports cars are best avoided by all save dedicated masochists! (Or those with lots of money and lots of patience.) Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 561 *********************