WWI Digest 526 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Spain by Alberto Rada 2) Re: Hat 1/72 WWI figures by BStett3770@aol.com 3) Re: Please take me off this list by David Finkleman 4) Re: French Aircraft of the First World War by "huggins@onramp.net" 5) U.S. National Insignia in WW I by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." 6) Re:/Texas and A/C Trivia by "Randy J. Ray" 7) Re: Newbie Albatros Question by Tom Werner Hansen 8) Re: /Texas and A/C Trivia by Kevin Wenker 9) Re: /Texas and A/C Trivia by "Randy J. Ray" 10) Re: U.S. National Insignia in WW I by Bill Bacon 11) Re: /Texas and A/C Trivia by Kevin Wenker 12) Re: Newbie Albatros Question by "David Solosy" 13) Re: Jacobs article by Geoff Smith 14) FSM Issues by "Leonard Endy" 15) Albatros DV/DVa by barrett@iplink.net (barrett) 16) Re: Albatros DV/DVa by "Don Rinker" 17) by "ROGER BELANGER" 18) Re: Albatros DV/DVa by Carlos Valdes 19) by "ROGER BELANGER" 20) What I want by rnrniles@wired2.net (Russell W Niles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:26:25 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Spain Message-ID: <199705032326.TAA11527@fw.true.net> Is there any one on this list living in Spain Or does any one knows of a www page for modelers in Spain I need some infor on a Spanish Aircraft SALUDOS ALBERTO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:25:13 -0400 (EDT) From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Hat 1/72 WWI figures Message-ID: <970503202513_-30784114@emout04.mail.aol.com> Yup. Hats a model company produceing 1/72 figs. The WW1 are the old Airfix. I also saw some other period stuff - waterloo or some thing like that. Barry Rosemont hobby ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 21:08:06 -0600 From: David Finkleman To: wwi Subject: Re: Please take me off this list Message-ID: <336BFD96.A9B@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Same for me. I haven't resorted to the profanity that someone did recently, but I've been trying to unsubscribe for a couple of months. I have followed all of the procedures posted, but I can't seem to stop the flood of e-mail. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:01:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "huggins@onramp.net" To: wwi Subject: Re: French Aircraft of the First World War Message-ID: >OK, for all you guys who haven't got you book yet, or who are wondering >what's in it and if you should buy it, here's a mini review: > The book is hug 600+ pages. It is a hardback without a dust cover, >the cover is some sort of laminated hard material. There is a brief >introductory section on the organization and development of the french Air >service, both Army and Navy followed by a ~ one on the aviation industry. >There is some discussion of the internal politics and how it affected >production. > The next 500+ pages deal solely with all of the aircraft produced in >France during the war. Each aircraft's section is diivided into the years in >service, some specs on the aircraft and how it was used, if at all, by >foreign powers. In many ways the book reminds me of Bruce's classic on >British airplanes in WWI. > On the negative side, there are a lot of pages devoted to >experimental aircraft, one of a kind, and those that never went into >production. While I suspect it was essential to include them, I imagine I >never will look them over. > Leaving the best for last, there are 61 color profiles, most by Alan >Durkota that cover just about all of the major aircraft used. For those of >you into Nieuports and SPADs, there are some good color section showing >different 5 color camo. Be aware that there aren't any really "unique" color >profiles here....just the standard stuff used by most pilots. There is a >nice section on Nungesser's markings and their progression over the years. >There are also some great color photos of survivors, including a great color >shot of Guynemer's SPAD 7 . Finally, there are a lot of 3 view drawings in >1/72 scale(I can hear Matt rejoicing already), some in 1/144 but none in >1/48. While I'm not positive, I think every major plane used in combat as >well as variations is covered with the 3-view drawings. > Overall, well worth the money. Not a book you can sit down and >read, but more as a reference when working on a model, or to drool over when >thinking about what to do next! >HTH >Mike Muth To add to Mike's review, there are 400 aircraft covered. The three views break down to 130 in 1/72 scale and 50 in 1/144 scale. The latter are the larger aircraft. The book is a world War I aviation modelers bible. A very well done book. JPH Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:15:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi Subject: U.S. National Insignia in WW I Message-ID: <199705040515.WAA26262@olympus.net> This may be common knowledge, but it is the first time I have noticed this. While researching the answer to Scott's trivia question, I looked through some National Geographics that I have from the WW I era. (A set I found at an estate sale ranging from Sept. 1914 to 1954.) The January 1918 issue is devoted to air power. We all know that the U.S. used red-blue-white roundels in combat during WW I and "between-war" U.S. aircraft of the 20's, 30's and early 40's used blue circle-white star-red dot insignia. I was surprised to see a photograph in the January 1918 issue, page 62 of a factory worker (as the photo was captioned) "PAINTING THE DISTIGUISHING STAR ON THE WINGS OF AN AMERICAN AIRPLANE.....In order to be readily discernable the emblems on the wings of the fighting planes of each nation must be as large as possible. The American star, in this instance taller than the man painting it, is white on a blue field. The center is red....for aircraft emblems see National Geograhic October, 1917, page 319." The October 1917 issue illustrated the "American star" insignia as the U.S. national insignia. I assume that the U.S. changed it's "American star" insignia in favor of Allied style roundels in order to avoid "friendly fire" incidents. Although the star is very distinctive, it may have created a "shoot and ask questions later" situation for French and British pilots. Does anyone have any information that sheds light on when and why the "American star" insignia was abandoned in favor of roundels and who made this decision? It is curious that this insignia was also abandoned at the start of WW II, probably as a result of the little Japanese "meatball" in it's center. Fernando Lamas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:28:07 -0600 From: "Randy J. Ray" To: wwi Subject: Re:/Texas and A/C Trivia Message-ID: I suppose this depends on the definition of "combat use". I'm reasonably sure I've read about the use of hot-air balloons as artillery spotters in the Civil War. Whether this was over Texas or further east, I could not say. Randy -- =============================================================================== Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept." --Calvin =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 14:43:31 -0700 From: Tom Werner Hansen To: wwi Subject: Re: Newbie Albatros Question Message-ID: <336BB183.798F@sn.no> David Solosy wrote: > > Philip, > The method I used to represent ply panelled fuselage seemed satisfactory. > First apply a base coat of Floquil Rilroad colours 110310 TTX yellow. When > it has dried completely very lightly scribe the panel lines with a pencil. > Then apply mid-brown shoe polish (nugget) with a stubble brush and work a > grain effect quickly before it dries. ..snip.. > Cheers. >>> Comment: Looks like an interesting way of producing the desired effect. I have one question: What happens to the shoepolish? Does it become hard and safe to touch, or do you protect with a coat of something after you're happy with what it looks like? Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 00:37:19 -0500 From: Kevin Wenker To: wwi Subject: Re: /Texas and A/C Trivia Message-ID: <336C208F.642A@interaccess.com> Randy J. Ray wrote: > > I suppose this depends on the definition of "combat use". I'm reasonably sure > I've read about the use of hot-air balloons as artillery spotters in the > Civil War. Whether this was over Texas or further east, I could not say. > > Randy > -- > =============================================================================== > Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 > Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com > "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept." --Calvin > =============================================================================== Nope, first use was in Virginia in 1862 during McClellan's Peninsula Campaign, otherwise known as the Seven Days Battles. Kevin W. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 23:48:47 -0600 From: "Randy J. Ray" To: wwi Subject: Re: /Texas and A/C Trivia Message-ID: > > I suppose this depends on the definition of "combat use". I'm reasonably sure > > I've read about the use of hot-air balloons as artillery spotters in the > > Civil War. Whether this was over Texas or further east, I could not say. > > > > Randy > > Nope, first use was in Virginia in 1862 during McClellan's Peninsula > Campaign, otherwise known as the Seven Days Battles. > Kevin W. Yes, but does this count as combat use? The original question was not "first use in Texas", but first use in the U.S., claiming that it happened to be in Texas. I personally feel that this is combat use, even if the danger of being shot down was minimal. Randy -- =============================================================================== Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept." --Calvin =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 00:52:02 -0500 From: Bill Bacon To: wwi Subject: Re: U.S. National Insignia in WW I Message-ID: <336C2402.53AA@netjava.net> Fernando E. Lamas, M.D. wrote: > > This may be common knowledge, but it is the first time I have noticed > this. While researching the answer to Scott's trivia question, I looked > through some National Geographics that I have from the WW I era. (A set I > found at an estate sale ranging from Sept. 1914 to 1954.) The January 1918 > issue is devoted to air power. > > We all know that the U.S. used red-blue-white roundels in combat during > WW I and "between-war" U.S. aircraft of the 20's, 30's and early 40's used > blue circle-white star-red dot insignia. I was surprised to see a > photograph in the January 1918 issue, page 62 of a factory worker (as the > photo was captioned) "PAINTING THE DISTIGUISHING STAR ON THE WINGS OF AN > AMERICAN AIRPLANE.....In order to be readily discernable the emblems on the > wings of the fighting planes of each nation must be as large as possible. > The American star, in this instance taller than the man painting it, is > white on a blue field. The center is red....for aircraft emblems see > National Geograhic October, 1917, page 319." The October 1917 issue > illustrated the "American star" insignia as the U.S. national insignia. > > I assume that the U.S. changed it's "American star" insignia in favor of > Allied style roundels in order to avoid "friendly fire" incidents. Although > the star is very distinctive, it may have created a "shoot and ask questions > later" situation for French and British pilots. Does anyone have any > information that sheds light on when and why the "American star" insignia > was abandoned in favor of roundels and who made this decision? > > It is curious that this insignia was also abandoned at the start of WW > II, probably as a result of the little Japanese "meatball" in it's center. > > Fernando Lamas > > Fernando, You are spot on in both cases. It's late or early depending how you look at it. Tomorrow I will try to find citations to back it up. Aircraft in this country (Continental USA) used the blue field, white star and red dot. This would be mostly Curis JN4's used in training. The Thomas MorseScout also displayed the star insignia. More later. Cheers, Bill B. Bill Bacon wbacon@netjava.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 02:19:27 -0500 From: Kevin Wenker To: wwi Subject: Re: /Texas and A/C Trivia Message-ID: <336C387F.FCA@interaccess.com> Randy J. Ray wrote: > > > > I suppose this depends on the definition of "combat use". I'm reasonably sure > > > I've read about the use of hot-air balloons as artillery spotters in the > > > Civil War. Whether this was over Texas or further east, I could not say. > > > > > > Randy > > > > Nope, first use was in Virginia in 1862 during McClellan's Peninsula > > Campaign, otherwise known as the Seven Days Battles. > > Kevin W. > > Yes, but does this count as combat use? The original question was not "first > use in Texas", but first use in the U.S., claiming that it happened to be in > Texas. I personally feel that this is combat use, even if the danger of being > shot down was minimal. > > Randy > -- > =============================================================================== > Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 > Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com > "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept." --Calvin > =============================================================================== Well, I am not aware of any use in Texas back then, but as to combat...well, when the Rebs started shooting at the guys in the basket and they barreling down the ropes, I would pretty much say that was combat use. That all said, what does this have to do with WW 1???? Shouldn't we take this to a Civil War area? Kevin W. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 17:06:00 +0800 From: "David Solosy" To: Subject: Re: Newbie Albatros Question Message-ID: 09080126416871@argo.net.au Tom, Knew I'd forgotten to mention something. Yes the polish does dry quite hard, but doesn't seem to flake off. However, I did give it an application (by brush) of a humbrol satin varnish, at least one day after it had hardened, just to be sure. By the way the decals were applied before the polish, so you have to be careful when applying the nugget. I have since handled the model with no detrimental effect on the nugget (or polish, or whatever you want to call it.) Anyone wanting to try this method would be advised to practice on a piece of scrap plastic first. David ---------- > From: Tom Werner Hansen > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Newbie Albatros Question > Date: 04 May, 1997 1:40 PM > > David Solosy wrote: > > > > Philip, > > The method I used to represent ply panelled fuselage seemed satisfactory. > > First apply a base coat of Floquil Rilroad colours 110310 TTX yellow. When > > it has dried completely very lightly scribe the panel lines with a pencil. > > Then apply mid-brown shoe polish (nugget) with a stubble brush and work a > > grain effect quickly before it dries. > > .snip.. > > > Cheers. > >>> > Comment: Looks like an interesting way of producing the desired effect. > I have one question: What happens to the shoepolish? Does it become hard > and safe to touch, or do you protect with a coat of something after > you're happy with what it looks like? > > Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 07:03:44 -0400 From: Geoff Smith To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Jacobs article Message-ID: <199705040702_MC2-15E8-104E@compuserve.com> >Geoff please use my business address as I am moving in three weeks. New house big basement and the promise of a first class hobby area complete with spray booth, first class lighting and lots of bench space and shelving. Happy, happy, joy, joy! Technical Assistance Bureau 11469 Olive Blvd. Suite 108 St. Louis, MO 63141 USA< OK Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 13:03:57 GMT From: "Leonard Endy" To: wwi Subject: FSM Issues Message-ID: <336c854a.10130915@legend.firstsaga.com> I know this is slightly off-topic but, I was putting together a list of WWI modelling related articles from FSM to add to the Swap 'n' Shop page. (I know FSM has a searchable database at their site, but with this one you won't have to search through the fluff and risk being subjected to the temptation to be pulled to the dark-side by a non-wwi related item.) I need the following issues to complete my collection of FSM: All the issues after the Premiere Issue (Spring 82) up to, but not including, the Fall 83 issue. The Feb 1988 issue. Please reply direct if you can help me out. I have one extra copy of the May 1992 issue if anyone is interested in it. Len Endy lfendy@firstsaga.com "Planes, Trains and...that's all that matters." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 09:21:34 -0500 From: barrett@iplink.net (barrett) To: wwi Subject: Albatros DV/DVa Message-ID: To the List: A quick question: Was there and significant structural difference between the Albatros DV and DVa? Thanks. Kevin B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 09:59:20 -0400 From: "Don Rinker" To: Subject: Re: Albatros DV/DVa Message-ID: <199705041401.KAA19873@post1.fast.net> > > A quick question: Was there and significant structural difference between > the Albatros DV and DVa? > > Thanks. > > Kevin B. In general, no. The only thing readily visible is the anti twist strut applied to the lower outboard interplane struts to help stabilize that wing from fluttering. There were some minor internal wing stiffening added, and the aileron control cables were routed through the lower wing, but the weight of the two models is only about 80 pounds dry different. Almost all dimensions are identical or within an inch or so. To add to the confusion, Ive seen some photos of A/c with serial Nos. in the D-V range that have been retrofitted with the brace strut. Some later model D-Va also had additional outboard wire bracing from the lower interplane strut to the outer tip of the upper wing. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 03:36:51 -0400 From: "ROGER BELANGER" To: "ww1 group" Message-ID: <199705041937.PAA16805@newman.concentric.net> subscribewwi Roger Belanger A job worth doing is a job worth doing well ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 15:34:54 -0400 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatros DV/DVa Message-ID: <336CE4DE.706F@conted.gatech.edu> Kevin, There are two quck ways to differentiate the two models: 1. Only D.Vs, but not all of them, would have the headrest. 2. The D.Vs, with the aileron control cables running through the upper wing, had noticeably larger control cranks on the ailerons. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 03:40:28 -0400 From: "ROGER BELANGER" To: "ww1 group" Message-ID: <199705041940.PAA17773@newman.concentric.net> subscribewwi roger belanger A job worth doing is a job worth doing well ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 13:02:32 -0700 From: rnrniles@wired2.net (Russell W Niles) To: wwi Subject: What I want Message-ID: <19970504200231818.AAA202@46.usr1.wired2.net> Greetings all. I was out of town for the week when this whole thing about "what I want" got started, but one of the responses that I read made me remember something. With DML's "factory" being in Hong Kong, and with what is going to happen there this year, I don't think that you are going to see much from them for awile. Rumor has it that they are looking for another location. Guam or maybe Korea? At any rate, I have heard that their WW1 line is to be completely discontinued. Hopefully it is only a rumor. I also heard that Hobbycraft's 1/32 line is to be discontinued. Personally I would really like to see some 1/32 German subjects. Like an Albatross, DR1, Pfalz, or Fokker D VII. I really think that this scale lends itself to the diminutive size of the aircraft, and allows for lots of detailing room. Plus they don't take up much room in the display case. Russ Niles IPMS 4450 rnrniles@wired2.net "Too late for missles.....switchiong to guns." ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 526 *********************