WWI Digest 511 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: On meeting listmembers by Sandy Adam 2) re:Re: Flying Machines Press by BStett3770@aol.com 3) Revells 28th DR1 by rnrniles@wired2.net (Russell W Niles) 4) Re: Revells 28th DR1 by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 5) Re: On meeting listmembers by michel.lefort@ping.be (Michel LEFORT) 6) Re: Super Scale Decals by Tom Eisenhour 7) Re: Gotha Photoetch by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 8) Re: Revells 28th DR1 by Tom Eisenhour 9) Diplomacy & Gotha etchings by Geoff Smith 10) Re: Revells 28th DR1 by "Don Rinker" 11) Re: Diplomacy & Gotha etchings by Kevin Wenker 12) Re: Revells 28th DR1 by gspring@ix.netcom.com 13) Re: Revells 28th DR1 by "Don Rinker" 14) Re: Diplomacy & Gotha etchings by Geoff Smith 15) Re: Diplomacy & Gotha etchings by Kevin Wenker ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:24:30 +0100 (BST) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: On meeting listmembers Message-ID: > My point is, especially in light of the comments regarding the diplomacy > and civility in this group, is that the folks here are top-notch people: > kind, friendly, and with obvious integrity. It's no wonder we haven't > needed our list administrator to police the conversation. > Scott H Absolutely - is it maybe something to do with the type of person who becomes interested in WW1 aviation? So much is conjecture, unlike WW2 and other areas like Napoleonics, that the first rule must be to respect the other man's right to his own opinion. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:20:41 -0400 (EDT) From: BStett3770@aol.com To: wwi Subject: re:Re: Flying Machines Press Message-ID: <970426192040_-1232862171@emout16.mail.aol.com> As far as I know these will be new information. I know the art work will be new. At least that what they told me. I think the S-16 book may be an English version of the book I saw printed in Russian last year - Not really sure but the Authors Name is Vadim Mikheyev - Is this the same authors as the Russian Book ? If someone has a copy check the authors name. Barry Rosemont Hobby ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:49:16 -0700 From: rnrniles@wired2.net (Russell W Niles) To: wwi Subject: Revells 28th DR1 Message-ID: <19970427054915636.AAA205@51.usr1.wired2.net> Greetings boys and girls. I have been out here lurking in the shadows for about three weeks now and since I need a little help, I thought I oughta un-cloak and introduce myself. My name is Russ and I am a plastic modeler. (gasp) I live in Sacramento Ca and belong to the Silver Wings chapter of the IPS/USA. Although I build in the larger scales (48th, 32nd and 28th) I admire all work done in all of the other scales. Most of the modeling I do is post WWII, but I do enjoy building ragwings on occasion. All of the models I build of aircraft from the Great War, are in 32nd and 28th. This brings me to my question. I am interested in doing a 28th DR1 for the '98 Nationals to be held in San Jose,Ca, I particularly want to do Kempf's bird. My references are slim, but I really need to know about the colors of his DR1. Was the streaky green brush applied over doped linen? Was the green color truly a green? Can anyone match it close to a FS595? I know of the problems with Revells DR1, but since I am building it for my enjoyment, and not strictly as a contest entry, I will not worry about the ailerons (sp). I will correct and build up the interior to the best of my abilities. Any help with additional interior information would be appreciated. Thanks all. I hope I have not bored you with my long note. I truly enjoy reading the back and forth of the group. I got a kick out of the recent scale thing. My feelings are that you start out doing the smaller scale, mainly because it provided more variety of subject matter. Then as you get older, and the eyesight begins to fail, you start switching to the larger scales, and being a lot more picky about what models you buy and build. My return e-mail address is: rnrniles@wired2.net. Happy modeling all Russ Niles IPMS 4450 "Too close for missles.....switching to guns." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 23:12:07 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Revells 28th DR1 Message-ID: <199704270612.AA15119@ednet1.orednet.org> Russ writes: >This brings me to my question. I am interested in doing a 28th DR1 for the >'98 Nationals to be held in San Jose,Ca, I particularly want to do Kempf's >bird. My references are slim, but I really need to know about the colors of >his DR1. Was the streaky green brush applied over doped linen? Was the >green color truly a green? Can anyone match it close to a FS595? I know of >the problems with Revells DR1, but since I am building it for my enjoyment, >and not strictly as a contest entry, I will not worry about the ailerons >(sp). I will correct and build up the interior to the best of my abilities. >Any help with additional interior information would be appreciated. Try FS14064 for the Fokker olive brown, which is the reference I have. But, this is not something I would lose a lot of sleep over - I doubt 1917 quality control was all that smashing and just about any olive green/olive brown in that general range would have matched at least one triplane at some point in its career. The "green" over doped linen is, I think, currently the best guess for all except the first three F.1 triplanes and (perhaps, maybe) the first twenty of the Dr.Is. But, you really should fix the ailerons. Especially, if you're going to go to the trouble to build up the interior. Cheers, Bill PS: There were at least two Kempf triplanes with similar although not identical markings. Make sure you don't pick "one from column A and two from column B" when putting together the markings. -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 06:59:10 GMT From: michel.lefort@ping.be (Michel LEFORT) To: wwi Subject: Re: On meeting listmembers Message-ID: <3362f85b.1373826@relay.ping.be> On Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:05:14 -0400, you wrote: > > >> My point is, especially in light of the comments regarding the = diplomacy >> and civility in this group, is that the folks here are top-notch = people: >> kind, friendly, and with obvious integrity. It's no wonder we haven't >> needed our list administrator to police the conversation. >> Scott H > >Absolutely - is it maybe something to do with the type of person who >becomes interested in WW1 aviation? > Is that only that we are mature people ? People who think before acting and speaking ? That seems to be a really fast diminishing quality nowadays. From what I see every day, the rule seems more and more to be "me first". That's really pityful as we are all in the same slowly sinking boat. Anyway, it's always a great pleasure to read you all. It's always interesting, informative and polite ;-). Regards. -- Michel Lefort - Braine-l'Alleud, Belgium IPMS Belgium Treasurer & Foreign Liaison Officer (member F147) http://www.ping.be/IPMS Plastic Modelling is holding History in your Hand ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:04:15 -0700 From: Tom Eisenhour To: wwi Subject: Re: Super Scale Decals Message-ID: <3363870F.7F95@swbell.net> John Huggins wrote: (re: the comet marking on Lt Joachim von Bertrab Alb. D.III; Jasta 30,Phalempin Airfield Aug 1917) > It looks to be a dark yellow with a blue gray shadow. The comet marking and national marking appear to be the same colors in the photograph (see Windsock Datafile #1, page 5). One color is very dark but not quite as dark as the color of the fuselage. The other color is very light. That's all we can say for certain. Yellow and light blue or blue-gray could produce those tones on ortho film but my intuition and logic tell me that the comet is red with a white shadow and that the cross is white with a red outline. Red, white, and black being the German imperial colors. My two pfennig's worth. What do you think? Tom Eisenhour eisen@swbell.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 08:45:39 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Gotha Photoetch Message-ID: <336374A3.249C@ricochet.net> Joseph Gentile wrote: > > > > > I can send scrapbook material on bombs/fins if you want to include > these > > > > as a feature. I'll also send a template sheet for Pavla/RPM 1/72 PuW > bomb fins. These > > may be enlarged and sharpened to facilitate a 1/48 set for 50, 100 & > > 300kg bomben. > > > > Riordan > > Riordan, > > Can I get a copy of any and all PuW bomb info you may have. I'm still > intent of casting a set in resin and this info would be most beneficial. > > Thank you, > > Joe Gentile Certainly, Joe. If you are looking to cast them in 1/72, I'll even lend you as many halves or built-up bombs in the above sizes as you'll need, so you won't have to turn/carve them. It might take me a few days to assemble them... You might want to check the Silverbird web site for the RPM set I have, or see if the proprietor can get the kit. Please post your address so that I may note it and never require it again. Riordan -- Shelley and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin Shelley's Jewelry Gifts: http://www.silkroadjewels.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 10:37:46 -0700 From: Tom Eisenhour To: wwi Subject: Re: Revells 28th DR1 Message-ID: <33638EEA.483F@swbell.net> Russell W Niles wrote: > I am interested in doing a 28th DR1 for the > '98 Nationals to be held in San Jose,Ca, I particularly want to do Kempf's > bird. My references are slim, but I really need to know about the colors of > his DR1. Was the streaky green brush applied over doped linen? Was the > green color truly a green? Can anyone match it close to a FS595? I know of > the problems with Revells DR1, but since I am building it for my enjoyment, > and not strictly as a contest entry, I will not worry about the ailerons > (sp). I will correct and build up the interior to the best of my abilities. > Any help with additional interior information would be appreciated. This is great! I thought that I was the only 1/32-1/28 modeler out there. As far as the finish, I wet brushed Gunze H-304 (FS 34087) over Testor's Model Master gloss Light Ivory. Thin the Gunze with rubbing alcohol and apply with a Crayola "So Big" No. 206 round brush I bought at Michael's (don't laugh - it worked). Work the paint as it dries until the right effect is achieved. The beauty of using water-based paint over oil-based enamel is that if you don't like the effect, spray the part with Windex, wipe off the Gunze and start over. A few construction tips: The lower wing will droop unless it is stiffened. Add a spar of brass or aluminum flat stock to the bottom wing before you assemble it. The cabane struts are a little too long. Shorten them slightly or the top wing will be humped in the center. The upper wing wants to sit with a higher incidence than the other two wings which makes the upper pair of interplane "struts" not want to line up with the lower ones. I'm not sure what the cause of this problem is. (I'll bet Ed Boll knows.) How do you plan to do Kempf's markings? I notice your IPMS number is 4450 so you've obviously been building for a LONG time. When did you join -- in '74? Tom Eisenhour eisen@swbell.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:18:57 -0400 From: Geoff Smith To: LIST Subject: Diplomacy & Gotha etchings Message-ID: <199704271318_MC2-157A-D1B6@compuserve.com> Morning,afternoon,evening all, I've tried for several days to find a diplomatic way to make a constructive comment about the current thread on etching. First of all, as a comparative newcomer to both WWI and the list and as one who has no knowledge of etching either, apart from what I've read, I feel like a bit of an "upstart novice" or a wet blanket. I don't want to sound like either, nor do I wish to imply criticism of Kevin W.'s skills in the etching department (though if we had a whip round we might be able to bribe some young lady to spill the beans) because for all I know, he's been etching and fabricating bits all his life. Anyway, my point is that there are a few constraints to consider when you start to draw the artwork such as how far the etching undercuts the resist just for one. If it helps, I have at least one article from a well respected British magazine (Model Railway Journal) which I can do a resumé of or can snail mail to Kevin, or whoever's doing the artwork. BTW there's also an article on electro-plating things like elbow joints on to wire and even entire plastic parts if anybody feels as enthusiastic as Kevin. Now for my contribution to Kevin's workload, how about a full kit for a Zeppelin Staaken R.V in E/B? (Promptly gets thrown off the list for having entirely the wrong attitude, along with anybody else who says "Yeahh I'll have one, please") Regards to all Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:50:51 -0400 From: "Don Rinker" To: Subject: Re: Revells 28th DR1 Message-ID: <199704271752.NAA24224@post1.fast.net> > The cabane struts are a little too long. Shorten them slightly or the > top wing will be humped in the center. > > The upper wing wants to sit with a higher incidence than the other two > wings which makes the upper pair of interplane "struts" not want to line > up with the lower ones. I'm not sure what the cause of this problem is. > (I'll bet Ed Boll knows.) > Other than deects in the way the kit actaully fits together, which are easily reworked, the biggest Faux Pas of this rendition is of course the mismatched ailerons ( this goes back to the old photos of the captured Stapenhorst plane) Also there is a serious problem with the entire tailplane. Its much too large.Check it against a recently developed three view. Also the rear landing gear strut legs just sort of end in the wing rather than attaching to the body, with an approprite cutout in the front edge of the lower wing ( almost everyone misses this one). Almost all these problem are due to the fact the molds were developed from the Joe Nieto drawings. At the time the molds were made these drawings were acccepted as gospel. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:27:51 -0500 From: Kevin Wenker To: wwi Subject: Re: Diplomacy & Gotha etchings Message-ID: <33639AA7.63E@interaccess.com> Geoff Smith wrote: >=20 > Morning,afternoon,evening all, >=20 > I've tried for several days to find a diplomatic way to make a construc= tive > comment about the current thread on etching. First of all, as a compara= tive > newcomer to both WWI and the list and as one who has no knowledge of > etching either, apart from what I've read, I feel like a bit of an "ups= tart > novice" or a wet blanket. I don't want to sound like either, nor do I w= ish > to imply criticism of Kevin W.'s skills in the etching department (thou= gh > if we had a whip round we might be able to bribe some young lady to spi= ll > the beans) because for all I know, he's been etching and fabricating bi= ts > all his life. >=20 > Anyway, my point is that there are a few constraints to consider when y= ou > start to draw the artwork such as how far the etching undercuts the res= ist > just for one. If it helps, I have at least one article from a well > respected British magazine (Model Railway Journal) which I can do a res= um=E9 > of or can snail mail to Kevin, or whoever's doing the artwork. BTW ther= e's > also an article on electro-plating things like elbow joints on to wire = and > even entire plastic parts if anybody feels as enthusiastic as Kevin. >=20 > Now for my contribution to Kevin's workload, how about a full kit for a > Zeppelin Staaken R.V in E/B? (Promptly gets thrown off the list for hav= ing > entirely the wrong attitude, along with anybody else who says "Yeahh I'= ll > have one, please") >=20 > Regards to all >=20 > Geoff THROW HIM OFF!!!!!!!! Seriously, I appreciate your concerns and caveats. I happen to agree=20 with them - which is why I don't want to say "I'll carge such and such"=20 and set up false expectations until we see how they turn out. I've done=20 some etching - most turned out good. But that was for my own use, and I=20 am VERY sensitive to what others expect/require when doing it on a fee=20 basis. That's why the collective/shared arrangement - if it turns out=20 like pooh-pooh, no one can hire a lawyer and start screaming. All=20 anyone is out is their copies and my time. I would like to take a look at the article you have. I will always take=20 input/constructive criticism and give it due consideration. Address is: Kevin Wenker 9218 Whitehall Ln Orland Park, IL 60462 Oh, I never needed ETCHINGS to lure the fairer sex in my earlier days. =20 My natural good looks, inate charm, and 1/48th scale models always did=20 the trick. Which is probably why i got a lot of modelling done,=20 instead. Kevin W. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 13:57:52 -0500 (CDT) From: gspring@ix.netcom.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Revells 28th DR1 Message-ID: <199742713551516334@ix.netcom.com> On 04/27/97 13:56:33 Don wrote: (snip) >Also there is a serious problem with the entire tailplane. Its much too >large.Check it against a recently developed three view. Arrgh! >Also the rear landing gear strut legs just sort of end in the wing rather >than attaching to the body, with an approprite cutout in the front edge >of the lower wing ( almost everyone misses this one). This statement confuses me. Could you clarify it please? Cheers! Greg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:19:08 -0400 From: "Don Rinker" To: Subject: Re: Revells 28th DR1 Message-ID: <199704271921.PAA00091@post1.fast.net> > >Also the rear landing gear strut legs just sort of end in the wing rather > >than attaching to the body, with an approprite cutout in the front edge > >of the lower wing ( almost everyone misses this one). > > This statement confuses me. Could you clarify it please? Let me try this again. :-) Almost all Dr-1 kits have the rearmost landing gear strut legs just fit into a socket hole in to lower wing close to the wing fuselage junction. In reality , the real Dr-1 rear lg strut leg attaches to the fuselage, but not at the longeron line where you would hink, but partly up the side. To compensate for this the lower Dr-1 wing has "notches" in full size about 5" x 10" from the leading edge back along the wiong/fuse joining line. This allows the leg strut to go up past the wing and attache at the fuse. You almost have to see one in real life to pick up on this. In all the old photos, this area is always in deep shade. Other details seldom picked up on are the lower access hatch just behind the firewall on the lower fuse , and the stiched fabric join running along the under fuse centerline from the seat frame line to near the tailpost. I think these last two show up on the Ian Stair drawings..... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 16:27:08 -0400 From: Geoff Smith To: "INTERNET:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: Diplomacy & Gotha etchings Message-ID: <199704271628_MC2-157B-C03@compuserve.com> Kevin W. wrote >THROW HIM OFF!!!!!!!!< I'll send a 144th scale copy if you do. >I would like to take a look at the article you have. I will always take input/constructive criticism and give it due consideration.< OK, a full size one on its way then. >Oh, I never needed ETCHINGS to lure the fairer sex in my earlier days. My natural good looks, inate charm, and 1/48th scale models always did the trick. Which is probably why i got a lot of modelling done, instead. Kevin W.< Such modesty. Nearly stuck my fingers down my throat till I got to the last sentence. Must be embarrassing for 1/72 modellers though. "Oooh, it's so small!!!!!". :-) Geoff BTW, anybody know where these Gotha kits lurk then? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 1997 16:10:11 -0500 From: Kevin Wenker To: wwi Subject: Re: Diplomacy & Gotha etchings Message-ID: <3363C0B3.4441@interaccess.com> Geoff Smith wrote: > > Kevin W. wrote > > >THROW HIM OFF!!!!!!!!< > > I'll send a 144th scale copy if you do. > > >I would like to take a look at the article you have. I will always take > input/constructive criticism and give it due consideration.< > > OK, a full size one on its way then. > > >Oh, I never needed ETCHINGS to lure the fairer sex in my earlier days. > My natural good looks, inate charm, and 1/48th scale models always did > the trick. Which is probably why i got a lot of modelling done, > instead. > > Kevin W.< > > Such modesty. Nearly stuck my fingers down my throat till I got to the last > sentence. Must be embarrassing for 1/72 modellers though. "Oooh, it's so > small!!!!!". :-) > > Geoff Unfortunately, every 1/72 modeller thinks that's the BIG scale. They just can't understand all the snickers. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 511 *********************