WWI Digest 507 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Aurora Pfalz instructions by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 2) Re: Public Library gem: " Legend, Memory & the Great War in the Air" by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 3) Re: Modest Proposal re test merssages by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 4) Re: Rumour..True I hope! by "Valenciano . Jose" 5) Dull vs Glossy Finishes by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." 6) Re: Lonestar models by Sandy Adam 7) Re: Dull vs Glossy Finishes by Sandy Adam 8) Re: Alb. C.III References? by mbittner@juno.com 9) Re: IPMS Judging by mbittner@juno.com 10) Re: List Problems by Tom Eisenhour 11) Re: Modest Proposal re test merssages by aew (Allan Wright) 12) Re: Glencoe Pfalz by Tom Eisenhour 13) Re: About this contest. . . by Tom Eisenhour 14) Re: Your Basic non-Joe Camel by Tom Eisenhour 15) The Sell And Trade Internet Marketplace - FREE by Welcome 16) Re: The Sell And Trade Internet Marketplace - FREE by aew (Allan Wright) 17) Re: Gotha Photoetch by jsthorn@clt.mindspring.com (Jesse Thorn) 18) Re: The Sell And Trade Internet Marketplace - FREE by aew (Allan Wright) 19) Re: IPMS Judging by GRBroman@aol.com 20) Re: IPMS Judging by GRBroman@aol.com 21) Re: About this contest ... by GRBroman@aol.com 22) Museum Albatros by Sandy Adam 23) RE: IPMS Judging by "Brian Bushe" 24) Re: The Sell And Trade Internet Marketplace - FREE by Pedro Soares 25) Re: Alb. C.III and wee small people by Sandy Adam 26) Re: Your Basic non-Joe Camel by Carlos Valdes 27) Re: Dull vs Glossy Finishes by The Shannons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:55:15 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Aurora Pfalz instructions Message-ID: <335EE7B3.3FE9@ricochet.net> Mark Alan Johnson wrote: > > Hello, > > I recently sent out a letter asking if anyone could make me a copy of > Aurora's Pfalz D-III instruction sheet. I will gladly pay for labor > and postage. Riordan said he would copy Ray Rimell's review article > for me. I can't get through to him due to difficulties. Here is my > mailing address: > > Mark Johnson > ASMS Staff > 200 Whittington Avenue > Hot Springs, AR 71901 Mark, Your request has been received and confirmed. I'll send a copy of the article to you shortly. Riordan -- Shelley and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin Shelley's Jewelry Gifts: http://www.silkroadjewels.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:03:11 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: Re: Public Library gem: " Legend, Memory & the Great War in the Air" Message-ID: <335EE98F.29@ricochet.net> Bill Shatzer wrote: > > Riordan wrote: > > > >This title was found while rooting around in the local branch of the > >county library. An excellent Smithsonian general interest book which > ^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ > -snips- > > Ah, you obviously missed the mini-fire storm which swirled through > the pages of Over the Front over this little tome and its accompanying > exhibit at the Smithsonian. There is, I think, still lots of > controversy over this volume although, perferring to remain apart > from that particular debate, I'll not venture an option as to > which side is being politically incorrect. > > Cheers, > > -- > - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - > "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to > old ladies." Bill, Could you at least outline the substance of the conroversy for me? I didn't really read it so much as copy the drawings and pictures. Was it ill-researched, amateurish in tone or otherwise boorish? To avoid an unwanted thread, send it to mgoodwin@ricochet.net The ignorant librarian, Riordan -- Shelley and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin Shelley's Jewelry Gifts: http://www.silkroadjewels.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:35:49 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Modest Proposal re test merssages Message-ID: <199704240535.AA03231@ednet1.orednet.org> Rob wrote: >I just had 100+ items from the list in my box, many of them the >dreaded "test" messages. When the list is down, this isn't going to >do you much good, and the large number of backed up posts becomes >a pain when the list comes up again. >I suggest that when you have received suspiciously few posts, e-mail >someone else on the list directly and ask if they got any. This would save >traffic on the list server and keep those of us with disk quotas from getting >unintentionally mail bombed. An excellent suggestion. And, the easiest way to check whether the list is down is just to send a "help" (or similar) message to the listserver at listproc@pease1.sr.unh.edu. If ya' don't get a reply in an hour or so, ya' can be pretty sure the server is down and you're just going to have to gut it out until Al's fever subsides or whatever. If the list server responds to your request, you can be pretty sure the list is up and functioning and if you ain't getting any mail, its either because no one is writing anything or there is a problem at _your_ end of the pipeline. At least this has been my experience the couple of times the WW1 list has "gone silent" for me, including the most recent episode. Perhaps someone with greater internet expertise than myself can add to or correct this. "Test" messages are probably unnecessary in any case and can cause problems for folks whose services allocate them limited memory for their mailboxes. As an aside, howcum Al got sick and the list went down at _exactly_ the same time? Coincidence? I think not! I suspect a mutated computer virus which was at last able to cross the machine/man barrier. Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:31:05 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: "Valenciano . Jose" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Rumour..True I hope! Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Carlos Valdes wrote: > > >Anyone know where to get the Blue Max Junkers DI? > > Joey, > I can't help with the BM D.I, but Czechmasters makes a good resin > 1/48 kit (without decals). How good a resin model? Please give us a mini review. I've got the Fun Model version and the trailing edges are much too thick. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 23:39:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi Subject: Dull vs Glossy Finishes Message-ID: <199704240639.XAA12552@olympus.net> >>> one of the judges comes around and >>>tells me "Alberto what happened to you, you could have won if it wasn't that >>you left it glossy and forgot to mat-barnish it....... > >FWIW I too have been assailed by the ignorant in this fashion. I'm >basically a coward, so I now build them with a fairly high sheen satin >finish, looking the way dope gets after some exposure....... The more I learn on this list, the more ignorant I become. Things were so simple as a kid in the 1960's.... glue the colored Aurora plastic together, put on the decals and you were done. Now that I want to build for historical accuracy I am paralyzed at every turn. 1.) What IS the accurate finish for WW I aircraft? Glossy or dull or a combination? (I just bought "flat" paints. The U.S. Air Force Museum web page displays several original squadron insignia that were cut out of U.S. aircraft during WW I. They *seem?* to have a flat tone.) 2.) Would only doped fabric be glossy? For example, a Fokker E.III model would be painted in "Doped Linen" color then given a glossy topcoat. 3.) Once a factory finish aircraft, say a Fokker D.VII, reached the front and was given a Jasta color scheme: would the doped lozenge fabric wings be glossy while the fusalage, tail, etc. that were painted over in the field be dull? (Since the dope would be covered by the new paint.) 4.) What about the Fokker streaked factory finish? Was this flat paint applied over doped linen and therefore dull or paint mixed with dope and therefore glossy? 5.) What about British aircraft in PC 10 with buff undersurfaces? Same question. 6.) I assume that Pfalz silbergrau and Nieuport aluminized dope finishes were both glossy. Fernando Lamas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:16:12 +0100 (BST) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Lonestar models Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Carlos Valdes wrote: > Their email address is lsmodels@ix.netcom.com > Carlos > Carlos and Scott - many thanks Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:08:37 +0100 (BST) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Dull vs Glossy Finishes Message-ID: > > 1.) What IS the accurate finish for WW I aircraft? Glossy or dull or a > combination? > Fernando Lamas Hi Fernando, others will probably have different views, but FWIW here is the principle which I follow: New aircraft leaving the factory will generally be recently covered in a final coat of protective dope/varnish. In some cases this is clear, in others it will have pigments mixed in but the general effect will be a glossy sheen. This is borne out by many Photos in Datafiles etc. Some aircraft (Albatros Scouts come to mind) are very high polished both on varnished wood fuselages and doped fabric surfaces. In the field, these aircraft would be subjected to pretty harsh conditions (the Junkers DI Datafile is very interesting on this - the higher resilience of a metal covering as opposed to wood/fabric) and the topcoat would likely lose its gloss pretty quickly. Even if it did not the aircraft would soon be covered in a thin film of French dust. Remember that these machines spewed oil about like crazy - especially rotary engines: a difficulty for the Germans in 1918 was getting castor oil for rotaries and this was important because they used it in vast quantities. The Western Front area of France consists of a rich reddish loam which gets everywhere. For several years I have holidayed in France and last year my Land Rover Discovery started off a bright shiny metallic blue, but at the end of two weeks was a dull bluish brown - and thats modern cellulose technology. My principle is to modal a machine as it would have appeared assuming it had been in service for a fairly short time - ie a satin semi-gloss finish. Some areas - metal cowlings etc may be full gloss or polished "metalcote". Obviously you could become paranoid about this if you were modelling a specific aircraft which perhaps was only repainted with personal markings after being in service for some time - a general dull finish with bright gloss new markings? - but I think this is taking things way too far. Of course with any rule there are exceptions and I am currently cutting out and thinning trailing edges on Sierra's wonderful 1/48 Lloyd CV - which has plywood covered wings and my intention is to paint wood effect on all surfaces and give a very high gloss final varnish spray - but even this machine would likely have toned down after a few weeks in service. The one area I always gloss though are props - perhaps museum examples tend to be lovingly polished by the curator but I think they look right. My tuppence (or maybe its fourpence) worth. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 04:47:48 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Alb. C.III References? Message-ID: <19970424.045227.13926.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:48:04 -0400 "Robert Woodbury" writes: > I'm trying to track down some references on the Alb. C.III. I'm > currently working on the Eduard kit of said aircraft. But other > than the unavailable Windsock datafile, I'm not having much > success. Here are the references I show in my database that I consider "important" help to the modeler (there are more, but they're mostly one or two photo's in a line up): Over the Front, Vol 8 No 1 (an excellent article, with plenty of cockpit photo's) Scale Models, March 1979 Windsock, Vol 11 No 5 (review of Eduard kit) WW1 Aero, #112 (Cockpits and Instruments) Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 04:52:21 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: IPMS Judging Message-ID: <19970424.045227.13926.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:40:49 -0400 Frank Landrus writes: > I've only been judging for six years now, however, judging good > models in a category seems to usually fall to the basics in > construction and not to interpretation of colors, sheen or > weathering. The difficulty in judging is when all the entrants > in the category have 'basic' problems. Actually, I would consider this easier to judge than if *none* of the entrants had basic problems. When all have basic problems, it's elimination of the lesser evil. When there are no basic problems, then you get judges that know nothing about WW1 (as in Alberto's case) making decisions they shouldn't be making. What I would like to see is some of the historians judge once the models have been eliminated due to basic flaws. Once those models with no modeling flaws have been established, then bring in Peter Kilduff, or Greg VW, or whomever may be there at the time, and have them judge how historically correct the model is. That would be ultimate! Then you can really be proud that your model not only passed the "modeling test", but also the "historical test", as well. Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:45:14 -0700 From: Tom Eisenhour To: wwi Subject: Re: List Problems Message-ID: <335F63EA.40F1@swbell.net> Allan Wright wrote: > > Sorry for the list downtime, I've been sick with the flu for the past > 4 days so when it went down I wasn't here to fix it. Sorry to hear you were sick. Glad that you -- and the list -- are back up. Tom Eisenhour eisen@swbell.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:14:10 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: Modest Proposal re test merssages Message-ID: <199704241214.IAA22461@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > >I just had 100+ items from the list in my box, many of them the > >dreaded "test" messages. When the list is down, this isn't going to > >do you much good, and the large number of backed up posts becomes > >a pain when the list comes up again. Well, a necessary evil of running the list is the administrator gets e-mail from the list as a whole when it goes down. I came back to almost 50! individual messages asking me if the list was down. I realize that this is a necessity for me to be notifird though. Usually when I'm around I fix it as soon as the first person lets me know it's down. Usually it runs for weeks, almost months without attention. As soon as I get sick...BANG! Well at least I can count on Murphy looking over me! > An excellent suggestion. And, the easiest way to check whether > the list is down is just to send a "help" (or similar) message > to the listserver at listproc@pease1.sr.unh.edu. If ya' don't > get a reply in an hour or so, ya' can be pretty sure the server > is down and you're just going to have to gut it out until Al's > fever subsides or whatever. An excellent point! > If the list server responds to your request, you can be pretty > sure the list is up and functioning and if you ain't getting > any mail, its either because no one is writing anything or there > is a problem at _your_ end of the pipeline. At least this has > been my experience the couple of times the WW1 list has "gone > silent" for me, including the most recent episode. Perhaps > someone with greater internet expertise than myself can add > to or correct this. The list will automaticly delete people that have mail bounce back to the list consistently so if your mailbox fills, your provider screws up, etc. you WILL get deleted - I have no controll over this. The daemon does this to protect itself. > "Test" messages are probably unnecessary in any case and can > cause problems for folks whose services allocate them limited > memory for their mailboxes. And the server tries very hard to prevent any messages with TEST in the subject or body from being sent to the list. In my experience it's pretty good at Nuking these. That's why I use the title 'Administrivia' for my test or announcement posts. Please use the admini address to query if the server is up though - it's an excellent way to check on the server without bothering the list. > As an aside, howcum Al got sick and the list went down at > _exactly_ the same time? Coincidence? I think not! I > suspect a mutated computer virus which was at last able to > cross the machine/man barrier. music here!> Nah - just good 'ol Murphy's law working me over again. -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:58:05 -0700 From: Tom Eisenhour To: wwi Subject: Re: Glencoe Pfalz Message-ID: <335F66ED.1523@swbell.net> Sandy Adam wrote: > Optionally you can hang the plane from the ceiling and have him plunging > earthwards shouting AAaaaaaaaaaiiiieeeeeeeeeeagagagagagahhhhhhhhhhhh! Well he MIGHT scream that if the kit were a Camel or a SE-5, but its a Pfalz and he's German, so I think it would be more like "Ssssssssscccchhhhhhheeeeeeiiiiiiiiisssssss!" Of course, if he's Swabisch or Bavarian it would be entirely different. Sandy, you're one sick little puppy! ;-) Tom Eisenhour eisen@swbell.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:23:33 -0700 From: Tom Eisenhour To: wwi Subject: Re: About this contest. . . Message-ID: <335F6CE5.4EAE@swbell.net> Patrick Padovan wrote: >It sounds very frustrating to me that well-built, ACCURATE models would be passed over in favor of less carefully researched ones, but I'm getting the impression that those who've attended many modelling shows aren't surprised by this. Still. . .ouch! A couple of thoughs from one who has judged: (1) No one is going to know as much about the the markings and details of your model as you do, so it's a good idea to include documentation, especially if your model is unconventional in any way. Also, (1a) "Craftsmanship creates its own credibility." (2) Judges work under terrible time constraints: too many categories to judge and too few judges. Consequently, your model has about 2 seconds to make a good first impression or it will be mentally eliminated from consideration. Make sure you get the basics (seams, paint, decals) right. > By the way, I'm under the impression that most, if not all, WW1 a/c > were in fact highly glossy in appearance, with a few exceptions and > allowing for some degree of weathering by the elements. Certainly those > restored a/c in the Shuttleworth collection give this appearance. > Specifically, most period photos of Albatri look pretty glossy. So, > weren't those glossy D.III wings EXACTLY CORRECT? Highly personal opininion: yes, and no. Yes, the wings on the original aircraft may have been very glossy but the glossiness should be subdued somewhat on the model or it won't look "right". It's something related to "scale effect". We can argue the merits of this point ad nauseum but pragmatically we all know that glossy models don't win contests. Yours in styrene, Tom Eisenhour eisen@swbell.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:36:45 -0700 From: Tom Eisenhour To: wwi Subject: Re: Your Basic non-Joe Camel Message-ID: <335F6FFD.4E1A@swbell.net> Rory Goodwin wrote: > They are quite pricey in my neck-o-the-woods at 16-$20 US. Is this a > Revell Germany issue? Yup. The last boxing of this kit that I saw was from Revell Germany in Cobby's markings and priced at over US$20. There must be a zillion Monogram Camels around -- they sold them bagged for years for about $5 after they went out of production in the mid-80s. I'm sure someone on the list will part with one or there's always Paul Milam. Speaking of which, has anyone received a list of kits from him lately? Also, could someone please forward his address, I seem to have misplaced it. Thanks! Tom Eisenhour eisen@swbell.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:55:55 From: Welcome To: Subject: The Sell And Trade Internet Marketplace - FREE Message-ID: <199704241257.FAA21467@usr08.primenet.com> GRAND OPENING! http://www.sellandtrade.com A central Internet marketplace where people from around the world gather to sell, auction, exchange, and buy items. Sellers and traders specify their own rules for selling and trading. Free for sellers and traders until the beginning of June, and possible longer. This site is completely free for buyers. Win a USRobotics 56k Sportster Modem! Please spread the word. Thank you for taking the time to read this message! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:01:22 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: The Sell And Trade Internet Marketplace - FREE Message-ID: <199704241301.JAA22793@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Take me off this mailing list! -Allan > > GRAND OPENING! > > http://www.sellandtrade.com > > A central Internet marketplace where people from around the world gather to sell, auction, exchange, and buy items. > > Sellers and traders specify their own rules for selling and trading. > > Free for sellers and traders until the beginning of June, and possible longer. > > This site is completely free for buyers. > > Win a USRobotics 56k Sportster Modem! > > Please spread the word. > > Thank you for taking the time to read this message! > > =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:59:18 -0400 (EDT) From: jsthorn@clt.mindspring.com (Jesse Thorn) To: wwi Subject: Re: Gotha Photoetch Message-ID: >> Kevin W. wrote: >> >> > I just got a machine to do photoetching Kevin, What machine did you get - tell us a bit about the machine and the process if you get a chance. --Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:03:18 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: The Sell And Trade Internet Marketplace - FREE Message-ID: <199704241303.JAA22892@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Take me off this mailing list! ARGH!!! They Spammed the WWI modeling mailing list! Now I'm gonna have to hunt them down and KILL THEM! -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:52:54 -0400 (EDT) From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: IPMS Judging Message-ID: <970424095252_186426971@emout08.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-23 13:26:22 EDT, you write: << BTW, what did you think of that Lancaster? IMHO, that was one of the finest 1/48 planes I've ever seen - WW II or not. Wow. Now if I could only come close to the detail and precision in my WW I stuff. >> How come mine don't ever look like that? :) I was bringing my Emhar Tadpole along with Bob Hortons scratchbuilt 60 Pdr, 210cm morser and French 150mm trench mortar. We couldn't, unfortunatly, get them out of the Arsenal museum in time to make it to the contest. Bob's stuff is just incredible. If any of you'uns are interested, Bob is putting on a presentation at the Rock Island Arsenal Museum theater on May 10 at 1:00 p.m. Bob gives an overview of Artillery from the Civil War and has some excellent color photos from his tour with a 155mm battery during the Korean war, but his meat and potatoes stuff is on World War I arty. I saw the run through a week ago. Good stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:53:12 -0400 (EDT) From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: IPMS Judging Message-ID: <970424095310_-434372905@emout13.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-23 22:51:07 EDT, you write: << I was unaware of a Gotha fighter kit - who makes it? Seriously, maybe I'll have my DH-10A (complete with Blackburn decals ;) ready by then, so we can have a "big iron" face-off. >> Can I enter my Sopwith 0/400 Glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:53:15 -0400 (EDT) From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: About this contest ... Message-ID: <970424095313_-132361636@emout16.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-23 23:29:29 EDT, you write: << It was the first model show/contest I'd ever attended, and except for the long delay in getting the judging results out, was interesting and fun. >> The Region V Regional will be in Arlington Hieghts next April. That will be a great one. Steve Hustad had some real beauties entered last year. The goal is to try to top the 800 or so entries that the last Chicago Regional had. There will be some announcments concerning this show made at the Regional in St. Louis next weekend. I'll pass on details to the list. Glen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:57:04 +0100 (BST) From: Sandy Adam To: wwi group Subject: Museum Albatros Message-ID: I recently asked for help on a esction of Albatros DIII fuselage I saw in the Scottish Museum of Flight and received excellent help from several members including Bill Shatzer who pretty conclusively identified the machine from "The Jasta Pilots". (Which BTW I have subsequently bought and pored over at length - thanks Bill) I write because I received some Datafiles today including Number 1 - the Alb DIII and there on page 20 is a picture of the exact aircraft D796/17 being examined on the ground - and yes it does have the white tail as well as the yellow spots over the entire visible fuselage. It is a little fuzzy and RLR wrongly assumes that the spots are some form of lozenge. Exceptionally satisfying to find photoghraphic confirmation. I'm all ready to make the model - now all I need is a decent 1/48 DIII kit - come on Eduard, hurry up! Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:56:14 +0000 From: "Brian Bushe" To: wwi Subject: RE: IPMS Judging Message-ID: <199704241357.OAA23201@itl.net> re: RE: IPMS Judging Yeah, I'm always looking at details of everyday things (cars being a good example, or the odd time I catch a flight) and thinking that would be laughed at if I put that on a model! Mind you I do prefer satin finish to gloss in small scales. It seems there are trends that come and go in modelling: the Verlinden Way, heavily accented panel ines (how close do you have to get to a real aircraft before you see those), weighted wheels (I read a comment from a air force technician from SEA who said if they saw a tire that bulged like that they would replace it!) - you guys do bulge those EIII tires don't you ;-). After a while a lot of these things seem compulsory. BTW I haven't read the judgeing outline yet (thanks Eli) but I was under the impression that some errors would be ignored. For instance a Dr.I expert may spot a slightly incorrect or uncorrected tailplane outline but not know that the colour of the manifold on the pfalz next to it is completely wrong. It would be unfair to mark down the Dr.I in this case. Brian B. _____________________________________________________ > Documentation. > > Documentation, documentation, documentation. > > I know that judges at local shows don't always read the materials left with a > model, but if you've documented your work, you have a better chance. > > To use some non-WWI examples: > > A lot of the Me 262 jet fighters in WWII had a putty applied to the panel seams > overall (except for the access panels that had to be able to open). This was > because of a belief that the slight gaps in the panels contributed to drag at > the high speeds the jet flew at. Now, if you fill all the panels on a '262 and > enter it in a contest without some kind of mention *why*, what will the average > judge think? > > Armor modellers religiously remove the molding seams from roadwheels, > especially on tanks such as the Sherman or Panzer III/IV series. But have you > seen a museum example? I have photos of a Sherman on display at the 45th > Infantry Division Museum in Oklahoma city, with very evident seams on the > rubber roadwheels. I have seen the same on Pz IV's at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, > too. > > > The point is, at a local show the odds of having Nationals-quality judging are > almost nil. You'll have a few people who have that level of experience, but > they won't be able to guide the entire judging process. Documenting something > like the satin finish that is a fact of doped linen won't always guarantee that > you are judged correctly, but it will increase your odds. > > Randy > -- > =============================================================================== > Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 > Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com > "It's not denial. I'm just very selective about the reality I accept." --Calvin > =============================================================================== > 'My mind is going. There is no question of it' - Hal 9000 Brian Bushe syclone@itl.net Syclone Systems Fieldhouse Lane (44) 01628 476 500 Marlow Fax 01628 475 522 Buckinghamshire SL7 1LU England ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:56:15 +0200 From: Pedro Soares To: wwi Subject: Re: The Sell And Trade Internet Marketplace - FREE Message-ID: <335F586F.3D42@anaep.pt> Allan Wright wrote: > > > Take me off this mailing list! > > ARGH!!! They Spammed the WWI modeling mailing list! Now I'm gonna have > to hunt them down and KILL THEM! > > -Al Hey Al, Could you please e-mail these guys a package of your flu viruses? Glad to hear you're back in one piece again Pedro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 14:46:53 +0100 (BST) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Alb. C.III and wee small people Message-ID: > Here are the references I show in my database that I consider > "important" help to the modeler (there are more, but they're > WW1 Aero, #112 (Cockpits and Instruments) > Matt Co-incidently while I was reading this, the postie arrived (in the UK we have a civilised postal service that delivers door-to-door) with a parcel of Datafiles that I had ordered from a source of out-of-print ones - including the Alb CIII. It is up to usual high standard but fails to include any shots of the observer's "office". This is a real pain on two-seaters as it is the most obvious area where you can go to town on visible detail. Does the last ref include rear cockpit shots? BTW my e-mail includes dates and times on messages and I don't know if these are from source - or time arriving my local server but I couldn't help notice the time on your message, Matt was 5:52 (am!). Does this mean you are a wee small hours modeller as well as a wee small scale modeller? Sandy (Big Time Modeller) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:06:55 -0400 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Your Basic non-Joe Camel Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970424100710.246757c2@conted.swann.gatech.edu> I have a bagged Monogram Camel complete with decals and instructions that I can part with for $5 plus shipping if anyone's interested. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:16:47 -0500 From: The Shannons To: wwi Subject: Re: Dull vs Glossy Finishes Message-ID: <335F795F.10B9@ix.netcom.com> Sandy Adam wrote: > > > > > 1.) What IS the accurate finish for WW I aircraft? Glossy or dull or a > > combination? > > Fernando Lamas > > Hi Fernando, others will probably have different views, but FWIW here is > the principle which I follow: > > New aircraft leaving the factory will generally be recently covered in a > final coat of protective dope/varnish. In some cases this is clear, in > others it will have pigments mixed in but the general effect will be a > glossy sheen. This is borne out by many Photos in Datafiles etc. > Some aircraft (Albatros Scouts come to mind) are very high polished both > on varnished wood fuselages and doped fabric surfaces. > > In the field, these aircraft would be subjected to pretty harsh conditions > (the Junkers DI Datafile is very interesting on this - the higher > resilience of a metal covering as opposed to wood/fabric) and the topcoat > would likely lose its gloss pretty quickly. Even if it did not the > aircraft would soon be covered in a thin film of French dust. Remember > that these machines spewed oil about like crazy - especially rotary > engines: a difficulty for the Germans in 1918 was getting castor oil for > rotaries and this was important because they used it in vast quantities. > > The Western Front area of France consists of a rich reddish loam which > gets everywhere. For several years I have holidayed in France and last > year my Land Rover Discovery started off a bright shiny metallic blue, but > at the end of two weeks was a dull bluish brown - and thats modern > cellulose technology. > > My principle is to modal a machine as it would have appeared assuming it > had been in service for a fairly short time - ie a satin semi-gloss > finish. Some areas - metal cowlings etc may be full gloss or polished > "metalcote". Obviously you could become paranoid about this if you were > modelling a specific aircraft which perhaps was only repainted with > personal markings after being in service for some time - a general dull > finish with bright gloss new markings? - but I think this is taking things > way too far. > > Of course with any rule there are exceptions and I am currently cutting > out and thinning trailing edges on Sierra's wonderful 1/48 Lloyd CV - > which has plywood covered wings and my intention is to paint wood effect > on all surfaces and give a very high gloss final varnish spray - but even > this machine would likely have toned down after a few weeks in service. > > The one area I always gloss though are props - perhaps museum examples > tend to be lovingly polished by the curator but I think they look right. > > My tuppence (or maybe its fourpence) worth. > Sandy Adding my $0.02U.S., I have gone by a generalization of a statement in a "Scale Models" article about the Spad and Jaune Clair. I don't have the reference right in front of me, but it stated that the aluminized yellow dope on the wings quickly lost its sheen and turned flat, while the unaluminized paint on the metal areas retained its sheen longer -- giving a semi-gloss and flat contrast. When I've extended this reasoning to other planes, I've been pleased with the look. Now, I have also seen photos of German and British planes in the hangars or on the field where the reflections of the struts or fuselage details can be seen in the wings quite clearly. This indicates a rather high gloss surface. I think I will continue to assume that the fabric dopes (which, after all, are subject to a lot of stretch and wriggle in the air) will tend to dull down with service, while the metal paints are a little slower to lose sheen -- but I also acknowledge that if I'm looking at something like Voss F.I triplane, that this was brand new from the factory and saw roughly a month of service -- under the mud, dust, and oil stain, this aircraft's finish did not have a lot of time to dull down. As I say, a 0.02USD opinion, and maybe not even worth that. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 507 *********************