WWI Digest 495 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Thursday, 12 April 1917, Paris, Le Bourget, Paris again by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 2) Sierra - Excellent Service by Sandy Adam 3) Re: Sierra - Excellent Service by "Joseph Gentile" 4) test-- please delete by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 5) Genet diary -- received today? by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 6) Re: The SE 5 File by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 7) Swordfish by Alberto Rada 8) Re: Books for sale by DavidL1217@aol.com 9) Re: Genet diary -- received today? by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 10) C.W. Atkins white metal Berg D.I by Michelle and Rory Goodwin 11) Re: C.W. Atkins white metal Berg D.I by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 12) Re: C.W. Atkins white metal Berg D.I by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 13) Re: Which German units flew at Soissons, 19 July 1918? -- mystery balloon buster over Belleau Wood by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 14) Re: Genet diary -- received today? by Bill Bacon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:10:45 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Thursday, 12 April 1917, Paris, Le Bourget, Paris again Message-ID: <334FB405.170E@host.dmsc.net> 983. The "New York" was merely disabled when she struck the mine yesterday and not sunk as was first reported. Very clear all morning but clouded up in the afternoon and by evening rain fell steadily. Left Hotel with Lovell in time to catch the Captain at the Chatham at 9:30 but we just missed him and Thaw so took the Metro and trolley out to Le Bourget where we found them. Orders have come for the Machines but 4 of the 6 are for the 84th Escadrille but we're to take them out. They weren't ready this morning so we all came back in Thaw's car. Had luncheon with Mr Hedin and a friend of his and then went out again to Bourget to see about the machines. I am to take one of the 120 h.p. Nieuports for the 84th and it wasn't ready this p.m. so we all came back, so only Lovell's machine is ready . We'll go out to-morrow a.m. if possible. Willis is getting one of the new Spads which makes me decidedly put out as we are supposed to recieve new machines in the order of our time in the Escadrille and I've been there a month more than he and am to keep my old 110 h.p. Nieuport. The Captain seems to be considerably down on me for some reason. Thaw asked the Ambassador and the French War Office for definite news about what is to be done with us but neither knew anything at all. This newspaper talk about our flying with the American flag and wearing U.S. uniforms is all Tommy rot. We're coming out at the little end of the horn with our wonderful republic back of us. Too much politics over there. Ther Captain went to the French War Office this p.m. to demand that we all receive commissions as Second Lieutenants. Haven't heard yet what result he has obtained but I'm sure it will never be our luck to recieve any commission. If we belonged to a monarchy we'd all be Captains now with scores of decorations and honors. As it is, we're *nothing* and mighty little of that too! Am disgusted and blue. Came back to the Avenida and Lovell and I are turning in early. from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet, N-124 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:48:43 +0100 (BST) From: Sandy Adam To: wwi group Subject: Sierra - Excellent Service Message-ID: Questions recently about who are the good guys in mail order: I live across the pond but have to say I've had excellent service from Bob Norgren at Sierra Scale Models. Because of the delay in transatlantic post, Bob has posted goods before my remittance has arrived in order to give the fastest possible service. He stocks Aeroclub and Blue Rider as well as the superb Sierra vacs in both scales. I've got most of his 1/48 range by now and they are as good as any I have seen. I understand the 1/72 jobs are also first class. But Disaster of Disasters - I believe lack of volume is forcing Sierra to move away from WW1 aircraft and concentrate on post 1918 subjects. I think they have made their last WW1 machine and can only suggest that everybody buys up what they want RIGHT NOW. In the UK the kits cost twice the US price but they are worth every penny! Oh, by the way, I have no connection with Sierra whatsoever - apart from being a very satisfied customer. I know Bob did subscribe to this list but am not sure if he still does or not given the direction Sierra is taking. If not he is available at smodels@ne.infi,net Sandy Adam Crieff Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 17:05:54 -0500 From: "Joseph Gentile" To: Subject: Re: Sierra - Excellent Service Message-ID: <199704122212.RAA00253@Walden.MO.NET> But Disaster of Disasters - I believe lack of volume is forcing Sierra to > move away from WW1 aircraft and concentrate on post 1918 subjects. I think > they have made their last WW1 machine and can only suggest that everybody > buys up what they want RIGHT NOW. Fret not Sandy, In a repsonse to my request Bob sent me a blurb regarding his Spring sale which reveals his latest plans for the WWI 1/48 line: Brandenburg W.18 Gotha G.V (and I've got the Rareplanes all lined out) Friederichshafen G.III Rumpler C.IV LVG C.V & C.CVI Sopwith Dolphin Halberstadt D-Type I'm sure there will be some tweeners WW II and 1/72 types mixed in but things looks good for the near future. Now relax and send me a couple of good bottles of Scottish beer! Joe Gentile ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:17:10 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: test-- please delete Message-ID: <33504226.4536@host.dmsc.net> TEST ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:24:22 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Genet diary -- received today? Message-ID: <335043D6.D7D@host.dmsc.net> Ladies & Gents, Server problems here-- I posted Genet's diary for today: "Thursday, 12 April 1917"-- did y'all get it? I can't tell. Bradley ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:47:34 -0400 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The SE 5 File Message-ID: <199704122347.TAA01062@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 08:03 AM 4/11/97 -0400, Tom Eisenhour wrote: > >What does it say about PC-10? Tom, and whoever else on this list thrills to the colors of PC-10(Yep Sandy, I think that means you) PC-10 and PC-12 were produced by suspending pigment of iron ore and lampblack in cellulose dope. The colors would vary depending upon the method of application, doping scheme used, degree of exposure to elements proportion of iron oxide in the red pigment Briefly, it divides things into 3 different schemes, all of which were used on the SEs CLASS A: 2 coats of clear shrinking dope to airproof faabric. 5 coats of non-shrinking PC-10 on complete fuselage, fins and upper surfaces of wings and tailplanes. The upper surface coloring was carried over onto the underside of the flying surfaces, but often not the control surfaces(What does that mean?) The proofed undersides of wings and tailplanes were given coats of varnish. Wheel disc covers either clear doped but usually camo. CLASS B: Used pigmented shrinking dope on camo baabric areas, unopiigmented shrinking dope on other fabric and a coating of clerar varnish. Metal and ply surfaces were covered in oil based varnish that contained PC-10 pigments. Battleship grey pigment was an alternative to PC-10 in this varnish, but apparently wasn't used often on SEs. CLASS C: Appeared in early 1918. Used pigmented shrinking dope without protective varnish. oil based varnish used for metal and ply components. Not much else really. Some good info on marking and quirks from each manufacturer. HTH Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 20:20:07 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Swordfish Message-ID: <199704130020.UAA24482@fw.true.net> Although slightly off course, or topic, the Fairey Swordfish deserves our benevolence, even if it was born as late as 1934, proudly is a biplane, has bracing wires, interplane struts and an open cockpit, what else can one ask for, hops, I forgot, and a fighting history worth of every medal the Kingdom can award. The only specimen we have in scale 1/48 ( of course ) of this Aeroplane is Smer kit No. 113 which you can call a kit only in the broadest sense of the word. Anyway, yesterday I received a catalog from Meteor Productions, where they offer on this scale a Fairey Swordfish by Model Design Construction, stating that "this is the best resin kit we've ever seen; fidelity of detail and fineness of parts never before seen". All this marble, at the very affordable price of $169.95 Anyone knows this manufacturer? Has any one seen this kit? Is this really the price or a typo error? Should we include this in the Guinness Book of prices? Is there any thing in between? SALUDOS ALBERTO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:26:54 -0400 (EDT) From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Books for sale Message-ID: <970412222653_-1736814364@emout03.mail.aol.com> I would like to buy the three Osprey titles on the German air units and the British units. Let me know if these are mine and where to send the money. David Layton ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:47:31 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Genet diary -- received today? Message-ID: >Ladies & Gents, > >Server problems here-- I posted Genet's diary for today: "Thursday, 12 >April 1917"-- did y'all get it? I can't tell. > >Bradley loud and clear here. Thanks again for posting these. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 21:44:00 -0700 From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin To: wwi Subject: C.W. Atkins white metal Berg D.I Message-ID: <3350648F.6A1E@ricochet.net> Is this way out of production? -- Shelley and Riordan Goodwin Visit our websites: Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin Shelley's Jewelry Gifts: http://www.silkroadjewels.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:04:26 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: C.W. Atkins white metal Berg D.I Message-ID: >Is this way out of production? > >-- >Shelley and Riordan Goodwin >Visit our websites: >Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin >Shelley's Jewelry Gifts: http://www.silkroadjewels.com Like nearly 10 years ago. It was only 1/72 you know. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:09:16 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: C.W. Atkins white metal Berg D.I Message-ID: >Is this way out of production? > >-- >Shelley and Riordan Goodwin >Visit our websites: >Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin >Shelley's Jewelry Gifts: http://www.silkroadjewels.com This metal kit served as the master for the Aeroclub short run injection molded kit. The Aeroclub version is nearly as scarce as the original. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:05:51 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Re: Which German units flew at Soissons, 19 July 1918? -- mystery balloon buster over Belleau Wood Message-ID: <335093DF.8A9@host.dmsc.net> Bill Shatzer wrote: > > Bradley wrote: > > >Does anyone know which German aerial units flew against the 2nd Division > >AEF on 19 July 1918, southeast of Soissons, near Tigny, as described > >below-- and whether there were any French or American units opposing > >them? -snips- > > Boy, this is a tough 'un. This was a _very_ active front > during July of 1918 and _lots_ of aviation units were assigned > to the German 7th Army at this time. Just about any of 'em > could have been involved in the actions you describe on > July 19. My quick and dirty survey discloses Jastas > 1, 2, 4, 6, 9, 10, 11, 21(s) 26, 27, 36, 41, 45, 50, 60, > 66, and 81 were all assigned to the 7th Army during this > period - the cream and some of the not-so-cream of the > German Jastas. While I've no references, clearly there > would have been a bunch of ground attack, bomber, and > observation units assigned to the 7th Army as well. > > Karl Paul Schlegal of Jasta 45 is credited with downing a > balloon of Cie 92 on the morning of July 19 in the general > area you describe (I think - locating obscure villages > on the western front is always a challenge.) > > Still, keeping a machine gun mounted on your cassion is > _always_ a good idea. (Keeping an eye out for ditches > and holes to quickly jump into is even a better idea!) Thanks, Bill, for going to the trouble to list these units. I'll make use of this list as I research this battle in the future. I had thought maybe it was here my grandad saw several balloons get flamed by one pilot, but I'm not sure, with the way the Germans dominated the sky, that the French could get any balloons up at all. But speaking of that balloon buster. I have found several reports of a four German balloons being shot down over Belleau Wood (Chateau Thierry area) within twenty minutes by a single allied flier on June 27 around sunset, but can find no corroborative evidence of this at all. And yet, I have found three separate reports from the 4th Brigade of Marines-- three eyewitness reports that this took place. Any ideas? All the more surprising as on that date, June 27, over Belleau Wood, the Germans completely dominated the sky. Some 80 different flights during the day over Belleau Wood by various German aircraft, plus a lot of German balloons up, and no mention at all of allied planes, with the lone exception of the allied balloon buster. It occured to me, of course, that this is the incident my grandfather saw, except that he said the pilot was German. But I figured he could have been mistaken, or even that the other witnesses were mistaken about the pilot's nationality. So I checked out the German records as well. Nothing, really. There *was* a jasta flying around Chateau Thierry during this time that was famous as a balloon busting jasta (I forget which one), but no single German pilot got a string of balloons on any day in June or July, as far as I can tell. Apparently quite a number of Marines saw the balloons go up-- one of the accounts is from a Marine officer who saw it from quite a distance-- the burning balloons were clearly visible for miles. Bradley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 00:19:32 -0500 From: Bill Bacon To: wwi Subject: Re: Genet diary -- received today? Message-ID: <33506CE4.7EBA@netjava.net> Bradley, Got you loud and clear. Genet diaries are great. How goes your project? Cheers, Bill Bill Bacon wbacon@netjava.net Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson wrote: > > Ladies & Gents, > > Server problems here-- I posted Genet's diary for today: "Thursday, 12 > April 1917"-- did y'all get it? I can't tell. > > Bradley ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 495 *********************