WWI Digest 493 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Button #2 by Carlos Valdes 2) Re: Button #2 by Kevin Wenker 3) Re: Button #2 by "Joseph Gentile" 4) Re: Button #2 by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 5) Re: Button #2 by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 6) Back on the List and Beardmores by Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) 7) Re: Button #2 by Bill Bacon 8) Re: wwi, wwii, acw, nam by Sandy Adam 9) Re: wwi, wwii, acw, nam by aew (Allan Wright) 10) Re: Button #2 by "Bill Ciciora" 11) Re: Button #2 by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 12) The SE 5 File by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 13) Re: The SE 5 File by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 14) Re: Button #2 by Alberto Rada 15) Morane Saulnier 'N' by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 16) Re: Morane Saulnier 'N' by Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) 17) Sopwith Triplane -- Black Flight kit and question. by The Shannons 18) Re: Jasta 15 by phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) 19) Re: Jasta 15 by Carlos Valdes 20) Re: Sopwith Triplane -- Black Flight kit and question. by phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) 21) Re: Jasta 15 by mbittner@juno.com 22) OTF Back Issues by GRBroman@aol.com 23) Bristol Fighter details by Shane Weier 24) Re: Morane Saulnier 'N' by JimMaas@aol.com 25) Re: Morane Saulnier 'N' by mbittner@juno.com 26) Re: Jasta 15 by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 27) Re: Sopwith Triplane -- Black Flight kit and question. by "Rob " 28) WWI Modelers want to like "their" Germans by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:08:36 -0400 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Button #2 Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970410101204.22bfd7f8@conted.swann.gatech.edu> This button is very nice indeed, but would there be a problem in using an image from the cover of a book (Grub street's Above the Lines) that is still in print? Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:16:18 -0700 From: Kevin Wenker To: wwi Subject: Re: Button #2 Message-ID: <334D2062.7B3@interaccess.com> Allan Wright wrote: > > Appologies to whoever submitted Button #2, I've lost the e-mail with your > name and address on it - send me the info and I'll give your proper > credit on the WW page. > > The button image is on-line - in the News, News, News! Section of the page. > > My comments: > > Artwork: Superior to the first submission - color makes it! > Info: Title in red is good, black for address is bad - hard to see. I reccomend > the following changes to make this button IDEAL: > > 1) Change lettering from black to yellow for address. > 2) Use WWW page URL (not e-mail address) for address. More info there, info > on the mailing list and HOW to subscribe is there in the FAQ. > > Besides that, EXCELLENT work. I really like this one! > > -Al > > =============================================================================== > Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! > University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- > Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu > =============================================================================== Do you mean the Blue Max? If so, thart was me. Kevin Wenker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:31:35 -0500 From: "Joseph Gentile" To: Subject: Re: Button #2 Message-ID: <199704101537.KAA12640@Walden.MO.NET> Way cool....I'll take a couple if printing/production isn't too cost prohibitive. Joe G ---------- > From: Allan Wright > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Button #2 > Date: Thursday, April 10, 1997 9:05 AM > > Appologies to whoever submitted Button #2, I've lost the e-mail with your > name and address on it - send me the info and I'll give your proper > credit on the WW page. > > The button image is on-line - in the News, News, News! Section of the page. > > My comments: > > Artwork: Superior to the first submission - color makes it! > Info: Title in red is good, black for address is bad - hard to see. I reccomend > the following changes to make this button IDEAL: > > 1) Change lettering from black to yellow for address. > 2) Use WWW page URL (not e-mail address) for address. More info there, info > on the mailing list and HOW to subscribe is there in the FAQ. > > Besides that, EXCELLENT work. I really like this one! > > -Al > > ============================================================================ === > Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! > University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- > Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu > Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu > ============================================================================ === ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:42:12 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: Button #2 Message-ID: <199704101542.KAA28286@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> I think the new button 2 posted on Al's site is neat. If there would be no copyright problems, I would have to say to go with this design. If it is a go, count me in for purchasing at least several! Paul Schwartzkopf Glory may be fleeting, but obscurity is forever! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:47:52 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Button #2 Message-ID: >Appologies to whoever submitted Button #2, I've lost the e-mail with your >name and address on it - send me the info and I'll give your proper >credit on the WW page. > >The button image is on-line - in the News, News, News! Section of the page. > >My comments: > >Artwork: Superior to the first submission - color makes it! >Info: Title in red is good, black for address is bad - hard to see. I reccomend >the following changes to make this button IDEAL: > >1) Change lettering from black to yellow for address. >2) Use WWW page URL (not e-mail address) for address. More info there, info > on the mailing list and HOW to subscribe is there in the FAQ. > >Besides that, EXCELLENT work. I really like this one! > I have to agree that this is a sharp piece of art. Is this truly pirated from the Grub Street book "Above the Trenches"? It is still in print and this could truly lead to copywrite problems. Another problem is the use of the words "WWI Aero". This phrase is widely recognized as the name of the journal "World War One Aeroplanes" from Poughkeepsie NY edited by Leo Opdyke. Given that John's time is limited for producing these buttons, will there be enough time to clear up these potential conflicts ? My US$0.02 worth. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:20:09 -0500 From: Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) To: wwi Subject: Back on the List and Beardmores Message-ID: <1997Apr10.091753.1155.1457566@uprr-internet.notes.up.com> I apparently got knocked off the FAQ list last week and just re-subscribed today, if anyone has asked me for anything and not received a reply I apologize. Hopefully I got an email out on modifying a 1/48 Morane 'H' and the group received it last week. Took several color shots of aircraft details at the RAF museum in Hendon in February, especially of a Beardmore 160 hp destined for the F.E.2b they are restoring, I got both ends and side views in color (and in focus) if anyone would like color copies just send me a stamped self-addressed envelope. Charlie Duckworth, 604 Foote Ave., Webster Groves, MO 63119. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:43:01 -0500 From: Bill Bacon To: wwi Subject: Re: Button #2 Message-ID: <334D1895.3103@netjava.net> Great design. Suggest aditional line _Modelers_ below _WWI Aero_. I agree with Al that the URL should be the Web Page. If it flies, I'll take a couple. Cheers, Bill Bill Bacon wbacon@netjava.ner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:47:53 +0100 (BST) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: wwi, wwii, acw, nam Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Allan Wright wrote: > I feel I have to don the had of list administrator for a moment and call a Quite right too - and if you don your had, I'll pop my bong and maybe we can persuade some of the others to join in stumping their trunnicles in time. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:00:40 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: wwi, wwii, acw, nam Message-ID: <199704101700.NAA22836@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Allan Wright wrote: > > I feel I have to don the had of list administrator for a moment and call a > > Quite right too - and if you don your had, I'll pop my bong and maybe we > can persuade some of the others to join in stumping their trunnicles in > time. > Sandy Quite right - I couldn't have put it better myself. -Al (Typos - the scurge of the internet) =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:03:10 -0500 From: "Bill Ciciora" To: Subject: Re: Button #2 Message-ID: Allan, The uploader of button #2 might want to get permission to use that artwork; I would bet that it's copyrighted. That image is from the cover of the Grub Street book _Above the Lines_. Bill C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:27:46 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Button #2 Message-ID: >Allan, > >The uploader of button #2 might want to get permission to use that artwork; >I would bet that it's copyrighted. That image is from the cover of the Grub >Street book _Above the Lines_. > > Isn't the "winged sword" on the D-VII on backwards as well ?? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:36:33 -0400 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: The SE 5 File Message-ID: <199704102036.QAA23527@pease1.sr.unh.edu> A quick review of this new book. I got mine in the mail this week. It's in the same format as the earlier The Camel file by the same authors, Sturtivant & Page. If you liked the Camel book, you'll like this one. It certainly isn't light reading. Lists all the SEs produced by serial numbers and then gives operational history including victories scored and when written off. There's a breif section on history and also one on markings and colors (ah yes, somebody's favorite PC-10), which would be of interest to those on this list. Some nice drawings in whatappear to be 1/48, but I'm not certain. There's also a nice cut-away drawing reprinted from the Aeroplane Monthly. Last but not least, a ton of nice photos. What strudk me in compapring the two books was that the Camels, although being rather ugly looking brutes, had much more creative and colorful markings compared to the SE5/a's, a much sleeker looking craft ;-} The book is available through Air Britain Publications. I forget the price ;-[. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:02:20 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: The SE 5 File Message-ID: > A quick review of this new book. I got mine in the mail this week. >It's in the same format as the earlier The Camel file by the same authors, >Sturtivant & Page. If you liked the Camel book, you'll like this one. It >certainly isn't light reading. Lists all the SEs produced by serial numbers >and then gives operational history including victories scored and when >written off. There's a breif section on history and also one on markings and >colors (ah yes, somebody's favorite PC-10), which would be of interest to >those on this list. Some nice drawings in whatappear to be 1/48, but I'm not >certain. There's also a nice cut-away drawing reprinted from the Aeroplane >Monthly. Last but not least, a ton of nice photos. What strudk me in >compapring the two books was that the Camels, although being rather ugly >looking brutes, had much more creative and colorful markings compared to >the SE5/a's, a much sleeker looking craft ;-} The book is available through >Air Britain Publications. I forget the price ;-[. >Mike Muth Its available direct from Air-Britain Publishers (is this address on the WWW site Al ???). They accept MC and VISA. Price is 20.00 pounds (16.00 pounds if you belong to either Air-Britain or Cross & Cockade International). Todays spot rate for the Pound is 1.6205 pounds per US$1.00 making the prices for this book $32.41 and $25.93 respectively. Sorry, I don't know what Air Britain charges for shipping. Even at these prices this book is a better value than the Datafile Special. Yeah, yeah, more than you wanted to know. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:40:21 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Button #2 Message-ID: <199704102140.RAA06218@fw.true.net> Taking into account that 1 we are a non profit organization, as a matter of fact we are a spend a lot of money one, 2 that we all subscribe to WW 1 Aero and if we unsubscribe their sales will be reduced by half, and we are giving them a bit of adverticement, 3 that we will all buy the book and this will prevent it from entering the $ 5.00 sale table at Barnet & Nobles I think that it might be OK to proceed Now, the button # 2 is really smashing If it goes out, I'll buy 3 SALUDOS ALBERTO At 03:31 PM 10-04-97 -0400, you wrote: >>Allan, >> >>The uploader of button #2 might want to get permission to use that artwork; >>I would bet that it's copyrighted. That image is from the cover of the Grub >>Street book _Above the Lines_. >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:06:23 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Morane Saulnier 'N' Message-ID: <199704102207.RAA00714@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> Does anyone have any suggestions for reference material for the Morane Saulnier N monoplane? I am particularly interested in cockpit layout and markings (preferrably French). I will be building the old Revell 1/72 kit. ( I also have the Eduard 1/48 kit, and was wondering if the interior on it is accurate enough to use as a "guide" on the smaller Revell kit.) I will be making some revisions to the kit's outline, based on some of my references, but I do not have any good photos/diagrams of the cockpit or of any markings. Thanks Paul Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 17:10:54 -0500 From: Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane Saulnier 'N' Message-ID: <1997Apr10.150508.1155.1459095@uprr-internet.notes.up.com> Paul I'd recommend the recent Windsock Datafile on the MS N, I and V Does anyone have any suggestions for reference material for the Morane Saulnier N monoplane? I am particularly interested in cockpit layout and markings (preferrably French). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:42:36 -0500 From: The Shannons To: wwi Subject: Sopwith Triplane -- Black Flight kit and question. Message-ID: <334D7AEC.57B8@ix.netcom.com> This is probably coming late for most of the list, but may bring a point I noticed to someone's attention -- I bought the "Black Flight" Sopwith Triplane kit yesterday. Previous reviews have mentioned that it did not change the fuselage 'problems' and no color artwork for the schemes -- but has anyone brought up the fact that the rigging instructions are simplified -- there are none of the fore-and-aft flying wires (from the cowl to the interplane struts and from the interplane struts to the rear fuselage. Now I doubt that there was a change in the stresses in the real one, so I doubt they would have removed wires in the late production run, so it seems that Eduard has done the removing. It is not an important point for those of us with reference files, but I wonder how someone who bought the kit for the neat looking plane outside his usual range of interest and built it out of the box is going to feel when he takes his new pride and joy to the local club and someone with more info than tact informs him of the mistake after all his hard work. I wish Eduard hadn't done that. Second, I have a question (I know, even we know-it-alls sometimes lose track of info) about the Camel replacing the Tripehound. In the SS 'In Action' on the Sopwith fighters, it mentions that the only reason the Camel replaced the Triplane was for the twin-gun armament. Yet we know that the Tripe carried twin-gun armament, and the two of them were powered, at least initially, with the 130 hp Clerget 9Bp. In all my references, averaged together, there was not much to chose from on speed. It was also said that the Triplane in maneuvers caused severe cases of 'brown shorts' among German pilots (exagerated, obviously), so it was not a slackard in that department. So why replace so quickly a plane that was forgiving, maneuverable, fast, with an upgradable armament, with one that was cranky and not all that obviously better? Was it really only a matter of ease of manufacture? Maybe someone who's read more widely can help. I offer the question to the forum. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:40:24 -0500 From: phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) To: Subject: Re: Jasta 15 Message-ID: <19970410234118.AAA5370@default> I'd advise following your instincts and doing the Dr.1 as specified by Imrie. The color profiles in the Datafiles are pretty, but some of Mr. Rimell's versions tend to conflict with photographic evidence. Good intentions do not make up for a lack of research or careful study of a subject. The other item is that the Imrie book was published in '92 and the Dr. 1 Special came out in '91. Paul ---------- > From: Frank Reaume > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Jasta 15 > Date: Thursday, April 10, 1997 8:57 AM > > Need some advice from the markings experts... > > I'd like to finish my DR.I model in the Jasta 15 scheme shown in photo > 40 on page 22 of Rimell's Datafile Special. What puzzles me is the > artistic colour drawing shown on page 28 of the same document - i.e. why > is the cowling depicted in a dark (khaki/brown) shade, when Imrie states > in his Triplane book that Jasta 15 sported white cowlings as part of > their squadron ID? Imrie's photo #67 on page 50 of his book portrays > some Jasta 15 machines, and the one on the far right looks to be > carrying the scheme I'm interested in. The white cowling is quite > evident in this photo, to my eyes at least, so I'm back to my question > on the Datafile's colour interpretation. Any comments and suggestions > are appreciated. > > Regards, Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:41:35 -0400 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Jasta 15 Message-ID: <334D7AAF.4709@conted.gatech.edu> Frank, (Most) JGII triplanes did feature white cowls as the photos indicate (in addition to Imrie's book, see the JGII colors article in Over the Front V.9 #3 by Greg VanWyngarden). Go with white (Aeromaster has a decal sheet with markings, in 1/48, for this bird, BTW) and just assume that Rimell made a mistake in his profile. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:01:07 -0500 From: phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) To: Subject: Re: Sopwith Triplane -- Black Flight kit and question. Message-ID: <19970411000118.AAA7380@default> A very interesting question. I've wondered the same thing many times. Most of the conjecture I've come up with is that the Camel was more maneuverable. The Triplane was very supposedly very handy, but the Camel was known for its lightning turns. Also the other item that came to mind was: The Camel was designed from the start to have two guns. The performance of the design was optimized to make the system work very well at that weight. The weight penalty of the second gun may have brought the edge in performance enjoyed by the Triplane down to a level nearer that of the opposition. This is all conjecture, but maybe it will draw out some information through discussion. Or maybe not....... Paul H. ---------- > From: The Shannons > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Sopwith Triplane -- Black Flight kit and question. > Date: Thursday, April 10, 1997 6:43 PM > > This is probably coming late for most of the list, but may bring a point > I noticed to someone's attention -- I bought the "Black Flight" Sopwith > Triplane kit yesterday. Previous reviews have mentioned that it did not > change the fuselage 'problems' and no color artwork for the schemes -- > but has anyone brought up the fact that the rigging instructions are > simplified -- there are none of the fore-and-aft flying wires (from the > cowl to the interplane struts and from the interplane struts to the rear > fuselage. Now I doubt that there was a change in the stresses in the > real one, so I doubt they would have removed wires in the late > production run, so it seems that Eduard has done the removing. It is > not an important point for those of us with reference files, but I > wonder how someone who bought the kit for the neat looking plane outside > his usual range of interest and built it out of the box is going to feel > when he takes his new pride and joy to the local club and someone with > more info than tact informs him of the mistake after all his hard work. > I wish Eduard hadn't done that. > > Second, I have a question (I know, even we know-it-alls sometimes lose > track of info) about the Camel replacing the Tripehound. In the SS 'In > Action' on the Sopwith fighters, it mentions that the only reason the > Camel replaced the Triplane was for the twin-gun armament. Yet we know > that the Tripe carried twin-gun armament, and the two of them were > powered, at least initially, with the 130 hp Clerget 9Bp. In all my > references, averaged together, there was not much to chose from on > speed. It was also said that the Triplane in maneuvers caused severe > cases of 'brown shorts' among German pilots (exagerated, obviously), so > it was not a slackard in that department. > > So why replace so quickly a plane that was forgiving, maneuverable, > fast, with an upgradable armament, with one that was cranky and not all > that obviously better? Was it really only a matter of ease of > manufacture? Maybe someone who's read more widely can help. I offer > the question to the forum. > > -- > This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon > at Shingend@ix.netcom.com > > History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:45:05 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Jasta 15 Message-ID: <19970410.205257.14622.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:45:26 -0400 phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) writes: > I'd advise following your instincts and doing the Dr.1 as > specified by Imrie. The color profiles in the Datafiles are > pretty, but some of Mr. Rimell's versions tend to conflict with > photographic evidence. Good intentions do not make up for a > lack of research or careful study of a subject. The other item > is that the Imrie book was published in '92 and the Dr. 1 > Special came out in '91. Not to mention the fact that Imrie has been working *yyyeeeaaarrrsss* on the book. :-) Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:04:11 -0400 (EDT) From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: OTF Back Issues Message-ID: <970410214833_639015383@emout07.mail.aol.com> I have a collection of OTF back issues that I am selling for a friend. The collection is Volume 1#1 through Vol 9#4 complete (36 issues, I believe). He wants to sell them as a lot. Buyer would pay for shipping from Chicago, Il. If anyone is interested, please drop me an email privately at GRBroman@aol.com. As always, references available on request. Thanks, Glen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 13:28:55 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi'" Subject: Bristol Fighter details Message-ID: Hello all, Two years ago (almost to the day) I posted my very first email to the list asking for references to help me in a scratchbuild project - a Bristol F.2B with Rolls Royce Falcon engine Thanks to what I now know to be the usual generosity of many of you, I have *almost* enough information to complete the thing. Current status is: ============ Wings, separate ailerons, tail surfaces, separate elevators and rudder completed long ago. Fuselage aft of the firewall completed, with cockpit detailed but the pilots seat, instrument panel, gun ring and guns not installed. All engine panels and the decking above the gun complete except for making the fairings over the water leads and installing them. Engine "shape" with rudimentary detail constructed (enough to convince through the many holes in the cowl) Radiator shutters under construction, likewise the gun synchronisation gear I have three problems. =============== 1. The area on the nose under the radiator shutters and radiator core is apparently open, since the front of the engine block and forward ends of the engine bearers are visible. This means that I may need to detail the underside of the engine block more than I have so far. I have some drawings and some pics. but I'd reallt *love* to see a head on shot of the nose to see how much *is* visible from in front Of course, I have constructed the engine as best I can with the available info, and the upper cowl panel is still removable. If I had a decent photo of a Falcon engine from above I'd probably detail the engine fully and leave the panel loose, or altogether off. Any takers on the above? 2. I intend to finish the aircraft as a 1AFC aircraft flown by Capt Ross Smith in the Middle East. A picture of he and his gunner Lt EA Mustard on page 17 of the Sqd Sig In Action title shows the dual Lewis guns on the Scarff ring, but gives too little help as to how the guns are paired and mounted on the ring. The detail drawing on page 14 is unhelpfull, and seems to contradict the photo. Any help anyone? Is there anything in Harry Woodmans "Early Aircraft Armament"? 3. On the side of the fuselage under the gunners cockpit is a legend which starts "This machine must not be....." in letters about 1" tall. White letters (damn, black would be simple). So how do I do this convincingly? So far the best ideas I have are a row of scratches through to the white card underneath, or segments of old fashioned illegible jet aircraft stencils pirated from a surplus sheet (borrowed from someone. *I* wouldn't own such a thing ;-) Any help from anyone vastly appreciated. I'm starting to scent the end of a loooong haul project and would like it finished long before another two years pass. Shane nb: F2B of course, Albatros W.4 nr: Bloody April, Black September nu: Eduard Albatros D.III , Pfalz D.III or whatever takes my fancy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:41:27 -0400 (EDT) From: JimMaas@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane Saulnier 'N' Message-ID: <970410195121_1086283314@emout16.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-10 18:50:27 EDT, Paul wrote: >Does anyone have any suggestions for reference material for the >Morane Saulnier N monoplane? I am particularly interested in >cockpit layout and markings (preferrably French). > >I will be building the old Revell 1/72 kit. ( I also have the Eduard >1/48 kit, and was wondering if the interior on it is accurate enough >to use as a "guide" on the smaller Revell kit.) I will be making >some revisions to the kit's outline, based on some of my references, >but I do not have any good photos/diagrams of the cockpit or of any >markings. The Eduard kit would be a very good reference for correcting the Revell kit. However, my recollection is that it is a pretty extensive job if you feel the need to correct everything. For example, I think I've read that the wings are located wrong. Maybe someone in the group has seen a recent Russian kit of the M-S 'I', which might be a better kit to start with. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:42:11 -0500 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane Saulnier 'N' Message-ID: <19970410.205257.14622.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 10 Apr 1997 18:03:16 -0400 "Paul Schwartzkopf" writes: > Does anyone have any suggestions for reference material for the > Morane Saulnier N monoplane? I am particularly interested in > cockpit layout and markings (preferrably French). As Charles said, go with the Datafile. However, I also show the following: Airpower: Nov 1995 Aviation News: 24 Jul 1986 OtF: Vol 8 No 4 Windsock: Best of, Vol 1; Vol 2 No 1; (those two have the correction article, for the Revell kit) Vol 5 No 3 > I will be building the old Revell 1/72 kit. ( I also have the > Eduard 1/48 kit, and was wondering if the interior on it is > accurate enough to use as a "guide" on the smaller Revell kit.) > I will be making some revisions to the kit's outline, based on > some of my references, but I do not have any good > photos/diagrams of the cockpit or of any markings. You have a long road ahead of you. The Revell Bullet is one of the worst 1/72nd WW1 kits. If I were you, I would get the Temens M-S type I, and convert that. Much less work than trying to fix the Revell N. Unless, of course, you're up for it. ;-) Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 21:12:11 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Jasta 15 Message-ID: <199704110412.AA00112@ednet1.orednet.org> Frank wrote: > >Need some advice from the markings experts... > >I'd like to finish my DR.I model in the Jasta 15 scheme shown in photo >40 on page 22 of Rimell's Datafile Special. What puzzles me is the >artistic colour drawing shown on page 28 of the same document - i.e. why >is the cowling depicted in a dark (khaki/brown) shade, when Imrie states >in his Triplane book that Jasta 15 sported white cowlings as part of >their squadron ID? Imrie's photo #67 on page 50 of his book portrays >some Jasta 15 machines, and the one on the far right looks to be >carrying the scheme I'm interested in. The white cowling is quite >evident in this photo, to my eyes at least, so I'm back to my question >on the Datafile's colour interpretation. Any comments and suggestions >are appreciated. Looking at the photos, I think you've got it exactly right and Rimmell got it wrong when he did the illustration. It seems almost beyond doubt that the two photographs depict the same triplane and, as you noted, the photo in Imrie's book clearly shows the white cowling. And, as you correctly observed, the white cowling was the Jasta 15 Jasta marking at that time. When the photographs disagree with the art work, go with the photographs. Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:18:04 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re: Sopwith Triplane -- Black Flight kit and question. Message-ID: <199704110422.AAA25407@newman.concentric.net> Mr. Howard writes: > A very interesting question. I've wondered the same thing many times. > Most of the conjecture I've come up with is that the Camel was more > maneuverable. The Triplane was very supposedly very handy, but the Camel > was known for its lightning turns. Also the other item that came to mind was: > The Camel was designed from the start to have two guns. My guess would be drag. The triplane arrangement probably increased frontal area and wing area (I haven't got figures in front of me I'm afraid). Lift would go up too, but so would structural weight (a biplane is a pretty optimal girder truss--hard to beat from a strength-to-weight point of view). At 130 nominal hp, power was marginal already. Neither aircraft was all that fast. My guess is that the Tripe had to work harder to get the same performance with one gun that the Camel could get with two. The Camel just made a more practical proposition. Probably easier to build and rig too. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:09:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi Subject: WWI Modelers want to like "their" Germans Message-ID: <199704110609.XAA08094@olympus.net> At 08:29 AM 4/10/97 -0400, Brian Bushe wrote: >All this talk of atrocities committed by the germans in early wwi is >getting me down., >I agree that the victors get to write the storybooks, and if you dig >deep enough you'll find just as many bones in the pit. >I don't know what I'm trying to say or prove with this post. Allan Wright wrote: >I feel I have to don the hat of list administrator for a moment and call a >halt to this thread. It appears to be WAY beyond the realm of WWI modeling >even if it did originate from our beloved Genet postings. It must be the comet. The administrator on the ancient coin list also had to step in and stop a thread yesterday. This always seems to happen on the day that I decide to join the fray. Regardless, I decided make one observation: I think this thread became a little testy because many WW I modelers WANT to like THEIR (WW I not WW II Nazi) Germans. I believe that it is the general consensus that the WWI Germans had the most elegant aircraft with the most interesting color schemes and therefore they are the most modelled subjects. This leads to the reading of the biographies of the WW I German aviators who are then seen to be pretty decent fellows caught up in a tragic set of circumstances (as were the Allied aviators). As a result, I believe that WW I modelers tend to have more sympathy than the general public for the WW I German "bad guys". I know that this happened to me as a kid after modeling all those WW I German aircraft. I had to get older and read more history before realizing that the WW II Germans deserved no sympathy what so ever. In my library, I have a copy of March, Francis, "History of the World War", published in 1918 that quotes extensively from the Bryce Commission Report. To end this topic on a high note, I would like to quote the following: "In the evidence before us there are cases tending to show that aggravated crimes against women were sometimes severely punished. One witness reports that a young girl who was pursued by a drunken soldier at Louvain appealed to a German officer, and that the offender was then and there shot. Another describes how an officer of the Thirty-second Regiment of the Line was led out to execution for the violation of two young girls, but reprieved at the request or with the consent of the girls' mother." At least that shows that there were some gentlemen on the German side. We can then decree, for the purposes of this list, that all aviators during WW I were gentlemen doing their duty as they saw it. As has been claimed by other branches of the service, the purpose of the WW I aviators, on both sides, was "To give tone to what would otherwise be merely a vulgar brawl." Fernando Lamas Fernando E. Lamas, M.D. lamas@olympus.net ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 493 *********************