WWI Digest 479 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Sunday, 25 March 1917, Raoenel by Sandy Adam 2) Tuesday, 27 March 1917, Raoenel by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 3) New Eduards, SAM, SMI by Sandy Adam 4) List by Kevin Wenker 5) Tom's Halberstadt Cls by "Shelley Goodwin" 6) Re: The Pup is flying by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 7) Re: Re[2]: Cockpit padding by "Paul Schwartzkopf" 8) Re: Fantasy of Flight Museum by Alberto Rada 9) Re: Halberstadt Cl.IV by "Joseph Gentile" 10) Re: The Pup is flying by mbittner@juno.com 11) New web page for flying models by thayer@sirius.com (Thayer Syme) 12) Footnote to 27 March 1917 & Genet by Peter Kilduff 13) Re: List by aew (Allan Wright) 14) Re: List by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 15) New WW1 French aircraft book by Crofoot 16) Re: List by aew (Allan Wright) 17) Wednesday, 28 March 1917, Raoenel by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 18) 1/48th Morane Saulnier Type 'H' by Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 10:04:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Sunday, 25 March 1917, Raoenel Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Bill Shatzer wrote: > Any speculation on what Genet actually saw or thought he saw here? > Given the diversity and freedom of markings on German aircraft, I could accept some sort of large circular markings being mistaken for roundels. Also there are many photographs of captured Albatri etc with overpainted RFC markings which might cause confusion. I don't recall if location was given but think it unlikely that a captured plane would be flown over German territory - but perhaps such a trophy could have been recaptured if a front line airfield was retaken? There were a number of experimental camouflage schemes tried out by all participants which have given rise to speculation. Fourthly - with spares from crashed aircraft being cannibalised there are number of well-documented examples such as the DH2 on the Datafile with a roundel on its lower wing - perhaps the pressing into service of some such prepainted component could lead to confusion (OK Upper wings were rather difficult to interchange on most German scouts but maybe some component parts). Finally with field repairs being undertaken with what was available, perhaps patches had to be applied in a shape resembling a circle and the fresh paint would stand out against the faded background? Whatever, I am a great believer in the man on the spot being able to give an honest account of what he thought he saw with his (contemporary) eyes - much more so than we can 80 years later and although open to interpretation, I am quite ready to believe that Genet saw something unusual. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:00:19 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Tuesday, 27 March 1917, Raoenel Message-ID: <333A9993.635E@host.dmsc.net> 967. Cold, windy day with frequent flurries of snow sweeping down from the North. Could not go out flying. Mail arrived from the States to-day and brought me two letters from dear little Mother one of which (of March 11th) contains mighty disheartening news about beloved Gertrude for me. Mother enclosed a letter from Mrs Curry Barlow to her telling that Gertrude is very much in love and engaged to some fellow from Vermont. Mrs Barlow has forwarded all my letters to Gertrude. It seems to me that Gerty could have at least written to me about her engagement and not have kept me utterly miserable with no news from or about her at all. Mrs Barlow is writing to me, she tells Mother, so I'll get her letter soon. I am finished now with writing any more to Gertrude. I'm feeling about as miserable and forlorn as anyone could feel over such news. What's the use to being true to one girl when she is so far away? It won't make much difference after all, tho. I don't expect to live thru to the end of the war. A pleasant Canadian pilot from Squadron 54 at Chipilly by the name of Lt Smith got lost along the lines this morning and landed here before noon so we kept him for lunch. He wa piloting an 80 h.p. Sopwith Scout monoplace. Comes from near Toronto. The Canadian chaps are far more frank and sociable than the usual English pilots of the R.F.C. Letters came from Helen Harper written from Rome. She'll be back about Easter Time. Wrote to my Italian Legionairre friend, Montezze and a long answer to dear Mother late this afternoon. All the States militia are being mobilized back in America. I predict a declaration of war on or by the tenth of next month. Am feeling decidedly "trieste" over beloved Gertrude bu I guess I may just as well put her out of my heart and mind as much as possible. from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet, N-124 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 13:39:16 +0000 (GMT) From: Sandy Adam To: wwi group Subject: New Eduards, SAM, SMI Message-ID: Just had a phone conversation with Four Plus (UK Eduard Importers) who tell me they have Pfalz DIII and Black Flight Sopwith Triplane in stock now. The Tripe has extra resin parts - two guns and alternative tailplane. They also tell me they are expecting the 'mailed fist' Alb DVa any day now. I'll be ordering these as soon as I get back from Easter holiday in English Lake District - can report on them if nobody else has by then. Sandy PS latest Scale Aviation Modeller reports Werner Voss Pfalz DIII, Nie17 and Lafayette Esc Nie to follow, then Hanriot. All this year. Reviews of Aeroclub RE8 (rather jaundiced in my opinion), PKZ-2 helicopter and H-B W12 Datafile. New Scale Models has Paul Monteagle article on Blue Max Pfalz DXII, DH2, Eduard Tripe and PKZ-2, Aeroclub RE8, Waldo Sop Dolphin and Datafiles 59 and 60 as well as mini datafiles 7 and 8. Good plans (1/48 of course) on Oeffag Alabatrias well as 4 full colour profiles. Finally, to keep the small people happy, some built up Pegasus Albs. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:51:51 -0800 From: Kevin Wenker To: wwi Subject: List Message-ID: <333AB3B7.4316@interaccess.com> Hi, Is the list down (haven't seen anything for 2 days) or was I just too obnoxious about the benefits of modelling in 1/48 scale and was therefore DELETEd? Kevin W. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 97 11:43:07 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Tom's Halberstadt Cls Message-ID: <9702278594.AA859492096@mx.Ricochet.net> Disregard last inquiry. Any opinions/assessments of these intresting 1/48 kits? Anybody got the Cl.IV Datafile (on this continent, if possible) who wants to loan-swap (or just send plans) for library materials such as other Datafiles, Profiles or ? Or, any data requests w/ no strings attached? Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 12:50:10 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: The Pup is flying Message-ID: <199703272050.AA19315@ednet1.orednet.org> Pedro writes >BTW I ahve 1 doubt about the Roland which I'd like to clarify: Were >there real curtains on the fuselage or were they painted on the >windows? Not to say there might not have been a couple with real curtains on the fuselage windows but the photos of the two C.IIs "mit curtains" had 'em painted on as best I can determine. Of course, curtains, painted or otherwise, were not de rigueur for Rolands - many (most? nearly all?) didn't have 'em. As always, it depends on the specific aircraft you're modeling - the photos are always the best source of information. Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:21:39 +0000 From: "Paul Schwartzkopf" To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cockpit padding Message-ID: <199703272124.PAA16453@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com> On March 27, Riordan asked: > > Paul, > > Since I've just tried this for the first time, will paint stick to this stuff? > > Riordan > Most of the wire insulation I am familiar with is composed of some type of vinyl. I have painted it before, but you need to make sure any oil left on it from your skin is washed off completely. It is possible to paint it, and then apply it around the cockpit, but be prepared for some touching up. Paint will crack and come off if the insulation is bent too far. It is also easy to rub off any paint through handling. Because of this, I usually stick with either black or dark brown wire insulation. My problems with doing this is that I usually don't have enough bandages on my bench when cutting the slit in the insulation with my X-Acto knife! Paul Schwartzkopf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:05:11 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Fantasy of Flight Museum Message-ID: <199703272305.TAA16144@fw.true.net> At 03:59 PM 27-03-97 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings everyone! > Looks like there was lots going on while I was in sunny Florida >watching Spring Training last week. I must admit I missed reading the >listing everyday...trying to read over 150 when I got back was grueling! > Anyway, I had earlier asked about the Fantasy of Flight museum just >outside Tampa. Some on the list, of course I forget who, gave it a good >review. So, I went. Let me add to the review: WOW =8-0 > While not a lot of WWI stuff, what there was was interesting. The >B-17 Bomber walkthrough was teriffic. They also had a Fighter-town section >that allowed you to fly in a flight simulater against Zeros. I managed to >stay alive, but no victories. > The whole place is done up in 1930"s art deco style. No expense >seems to have been spared. A really classy place...takes about 2 hours and >not that expensive.....unless you keep paying for the Wildcat simulater! >Mike Muth > > > I believe this is owned by a multimillionaire called Weeks, owner of the Weeks Air Museum in Tamiami, Miami FL, where he has a very nice group of planes, the amazing thing is that he lost almost all of his airplane collection with the Andrew's storm. I also found it a must when you are in the vicinity of Orlando FL SALUDOS ALBERTO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 18:06:07 -0600 From: "Joseph Gentile" To: Subject: Re: Halberstadt Cl.IV Message-ID: <199703280005.SAA25731@Walden.MO.NET> Tom's Modelwerkes has a nice 1/48th offering. I cannot remember if it is a Hablerstadt or Roland make machine. Lot's of white metal and photo etch. No major warpage either as I recall. Juan at Sopwith has it in stock. ---------- > From: Shelley Goodwin > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Halberstadt Cl.IV > Date: Thursday, March 27, 1997 3:06 PM > > Any 1/48 or 1/72 kits made of this 'un? > > Riordan > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 20:43:38 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: The Pup is flying Message-ID: <19970327.205215.13966.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 15:14:53 -0500 Pedro Soares writes: > I do recall seing a picture in a modeling encyclopedia of a > Roland with such a fish scale camo. That would really make for a > wonderful finish. What I do not know is if my painting skils > will go that far (I sincerely doubt it) but since you mentioned > I'll try to dig out that article and at least give it a > thought. Your best reference source is the Datafile. > If it can be done straight from the box, the better. Anyway if > you find that any of the modifications you mention are a must, > please let me know about it. I'm not really a stickler for > accuracy and if there's nothing really way out of line with the > kit I'll be perfectly happy with an out of the box kit. Well, there are a few corrections, but like I said earlier: it builds up and it looks like a C.II, with no modifications. However, if you're curious, the biggest problems are the wing cutouts, wing tips, and horizontal tail plane. > BTW I ahve 1 doubt about the Roland which I'd like to clarify: > Were there real curtains on the fuselage or were they painted on > the windows? As Charles (?) already said, most of them were painted on. However, do check your sources. > Ah,Ah, so you don't believe I did finish it, Uh?????? :-) No, I believe it. I just want to see how great of a job you really did. I do not doubt it for a minute; I just want to see your Pup. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 01:03:06 -0800 From: thayer@sirius.com (Thayer Syme) To: wwi Subject: New web page for flying models Message-ID: First off, let me butter you all up a bit. I have been a mostly silent member of the list for close to a couple years. This mostly due to my primary interest being flying models and they are a true minority in this forum. Despite that, the list is chock full of great info as you all know. I especially appreciate the historical accuracies, as most folks flying models are really quite short on details beyond the planes themselves. Now the plug. On Tuesday I put up a web page featuring a few of my Free Flight models. I know that none of the models are WWI combat types, but two of them are about the right era. There are also WWI hanger mates, that haven't been photographed yet. As the page is only a couple days old, I thought I would let you folks be among the first to check it out. Thayer -- Thayer Syme Free Flight Homepage San Francisco www/sirius.com/~thayer/modelhp.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 9:25:06 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Kilduff To: wwi Subject: Footnote to 27 March 1917 & Genet Message-ID: <970328092506.2063505d@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> In response to: > >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 16:36:35 -0500 >From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Tuesday, 27 March 1917, Raoenel > > >A pleasant Canadian pilot from Squadron 54 at Chipilly by the name >of Lt Smith got lost along the lines this morning and landed here before >noon so we kept him for lunch. He wa piloting an 80 h.p. Sopwith Scout >monoplace. Comes from near Toronto. The Canadian chaps are far more >frank and sociable than the usual English pilots of the R.F.C. > > >from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet, N-124 Records of the 14th Wing of the Royal Flying Corps have one reference to 2/Lt R.N. Smith of No. 54 Squadron, RFC, noting that he was Canadian and joined the squadron in January 1917. He is *not* mentioned in S.F. Wise's (otherwise quite comprehensive) _Canadian Airmen and the First World War_ (Toronto, 1980). Perhaps one of our Canadian members has information on him? Peter Kilduff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:59:40 -0500 (EST) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: List Message-ID: <199703281659.LAA04659@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Is the list down (haven't seen anything for 2 days) or was I just too > obnoxious about the benefits of modelling in 1/48 scale and was > therefore DELETEd? The list has indeed been flaky - mostly due to lack of administration. Work has gone into a temporary (but 2 month long) panic period where I haven't even had time to read the list much less maintain it. It's catch as catch can on keeping it up. Usually it runs itself without much administration, but sure as if Murphy said it himself, as soon as I CANT work on it it goes on the fritz. Should be stable now, but if it acts up it may take a while for me to realize it's down and fix it. Sorry, Thisgs should be better in another month. -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 09:13:06 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: List Message-ID: <199703281713.AA07040@ednet1.orednet.org> Al wrote: >=============================================================================== >Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! >=============================================================================== And that blunder would be? A land war in Asia while going against a Sicilian when death is on the line? Or, attempting to actually build a Glencoe Albatros? Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 11:49:42 -0600 From: Crofoot To: wwi Subject: New WW1 French aircraft book Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970328114940.00690860@computerpro.com> I just talked to Barry at Rosemont Hobbies. The new Flying Machines Press book on French WW I aircraft is going to be released next Monday. He told me that anyone who ordered before Monday will still get the prerelease price of $80 which is $15 off of the regular price. This includes postage. Barry also hopes to have a web page up in the near future. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:22:06 -0500 (EST) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: List Message-ID: <199703281822.NAA05042@pease1.sr.unh.edu> >=============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! =============================================================================== > And that blunder would be? A land war in Asia while going against > a Sicilian when death is on the line? Or, attempting to actually > build a Glencoe Albatros? The Most faymous is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia' but only slightly less well known is building the Airfix Dr-I when you can get a Revell for the same price! -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 14:46:46 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Wednesday, 28 March 1917, Raoenel Message-ID: <333C4A56.6443@host.dmsc.net> 968. Fair day but rainy by evening. Tried to go out with Lovell and Parsons at 9:45 but smashed my propellor while leaving the field so had to return. New one was put on and I went out at 11:30 with Willis, Soubiran, Lufberry and Hoskier over the lines around St Quentin. Clouds were quite thick beneath us a good part of the time. Saw no Boche machines but were heavily bombarded while south of St Quentin. Landed at the aviation headquarters south of Ham at the end of the patrol to make our report and then we flew back to St Just. The headquarters is at Chateau Bonnieul between Guiscard and Ham. We will probably go from here to an aviation emplacement just south of Ham the early part of next week. Walked down to St Just with Lovell late in afternoon for some exercise. Am mighty well disgusted with two of the fellows here one of whom I've remarked about before. Neither of them seem very enthusiastic fighters and take every possible opportunity to remain at the camp on pretense of being sick or tired and the rest of us break our necks and even lose our lives to keep up the good service of the Escadrille. Those two I'm certain will see the finish of the war, return to America, and pose as the heros of the Escadrille and be received by such by everyone--who won't know the difference. Big French attack south of St Quentin expected to be pulled off this afternoon. This evening we can hear many heavy guns pounding on that part of the front. Possible the Boche are counter-attacking. No special news of the States to-day but war preparations are going on full speed. Cuba may follow the U.S. in declaring war on the Huns. The Boches bombarded Rhiems with no less than 396 heavy calibre shells between 8 a.m. and 1:30 p.m. yesterday. No letters from the States for me to-day as I expected. I'm having poor luck with mail lately. from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet ********************************************** Wednesday, March 28, 1917 Started out at 9:45 this morning on first patrol with Thaw, Lovell and Parsons but my propellor was broken at one end while leaving the ground by hitting some muddy ground so had to return at once. A new propellor was immediately put on and I left the second patrol at 11:30 comprising Lufberry and Hoskier with Spads and Willis, Soubiran and myself with Nieuports, Willis leading. We went along the lines south of St Quentin where we were heavily shelled by anti-aircraft batteries but saw no Boche avions. Clouds were rather heavy below us most of the time but the wind was rather slight until we returned around 1:30. Time: 2 hours Height max. 3000 meters Total time over lines at present: 46 hours from the Flight Log of E.C.C. Genet, N-124 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 13:57:38 -0500 From: Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) To: wwi Subject: 1/48th Morane Saulnier Type 'H' Message-ID: <1997Mar28.094531.1155.1393280@uprr-internet.notes.up.com> I thought I pass a couple of notes to the group on building the 1/48th Morane Saulnier type 'H' that was imported 2-4 years ago, I can't recall the Russian manufacturer but it was packaged as a 'G' type. It is truly an 'H' due to the wing and fuselage sizes and number of rib stations. The kit was originally sold for $7.98 and I purchased mine through Rosemont Hobbies several years ago. - resources were the Imperial Russian Air Service book for 1/48 scale drawings, painting recommendations and photographs, am sure the new French book will be a big assets here as well. I also used the Morane Saulnier type L and N and Pfatz E Datafiles as references the models were very similar in construction. In addition, Jack Bruce's Volume Five French Fighter of WWI (copyright 1972) covers this and other MS aircraft and has much early development information. - fuselage walls were too thick to represent the wood/fabric construction so I removed as much as possible with a chisel type E-xacto blade and single edged razor blade. The two sides were bonded using plastic and ACC glue and then sprayed with gray automotive primer so the molded details would show better; I then wet sanded the top, sides and bottom to remove the erroneous lines using the 1/48 plans as a guide. - cowling was scrapped out in a similar manner to make room for a seven-cylinder rotary, I also added a thicker firewall behind the kit's cowling to lengthen it, again using the diagrams as a reference. The cowling was sprayed with the automotive primer and filed/sanded to shape. - wings had two minor spots on the trailing edge where the plastic did not completely fill in when molded, I filled these in using Mr. Micro plastic fuller and ACC for additional strength. The kit's wings have four small dimples and squares scribed to represent where the wire bracing and warping wires attach I removed these as these were in the wrong places according to the plans. Again use primer and sanding to check your work. - All of the kit supplied struts were sanded to a narrower cross section before gluing in place. - Before gluing the wings, tail and rudder to the fuselage together I painted the parts a very light cream using a mix of Humbol's Underside White and Clear Doped Fabric. I then used a set of Micron Pigma waterproof pens (.005, .03 and 1.0) to define the small wood cap strips seen on the rib stations and make the tail, rudder and fuselage outlines seen on these early aircraft. I used a thin flexible metal straight edge as a guide in making the edging on the fuselage and wings, if you mess up merely scrape the line off with a single edge razor blade and brush over the mistake with the cream paint. The wood panels behind the cockpit were made using wood-grain decals toned down using a brown Micron Pen. The cowling and metal paneling were sprayed black as well as all struts and metal fixtures. The metal strapping behind the cowling and access panels were brush painted a medium gray to add definition using the color illustrations in the Russian Air Service book. - The parts were glued together with plastic and ACC. The warping and bracing wires made using .005 fishing line painted with Floquil's Gunmetal color. - This weekend I plan to modify a white metal Aeroclub Gnome nine cylinder rotary to a seven rotary configuration by cutting off the cylinders and reassembling using wire and ACC. I'll then detail the cockpit with 2" x 2" wood shapes and wire and a wood floor and seat. It's not a super model by any stretch of the imagination when compared to DML or Eduard's MS models but it's a cheap means to get an early war model of a type H that is somewhat easy to upgrade to a nice presentative model For marking, I only plan to add a three numbers on the tail to represent a very early or prewar Morane in French service. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 479 *********************