WWI Digest 460 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: US roundels by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 2) Re: Nationals Idea by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 3) Boelcke Writes Home About Ghost Plane by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." 4) 1/24 scale WW I kits by phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) 5) Re: 1/24 scale WW I kits by Alberto Rada 6) Thursday, 8 March 1917, Raoenel near St Just by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 7) Re: TV show by DavidL1217@aol.com 8) Re[4]: scratchbuilding subject by "Shelley Goodwin" 9) "blonde" Albatros plywood by "Shelley Goodwin" 10) Re: "blonde" Albatros plywood by phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) 11) RE: Nationals Idea / Silver EIII by "Stuart L. Malone" 12) Re: Mr. Roll, got the Eduard Pfalz yet? by john@rollmodels.com (John Roll) 13) RE: Nationals Idea / Silver EIII by "huggins@onramp.net" 14) RE: Nationals Idea / Silver EIII by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 12:09:29 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: US roundels Message-ID: <199703081709.MAA04756@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 10:29 PM 3/7/97 -0500, mbittner@juno.com wrote: . Unfortunately, they >won't work. On most Nieuports, both sides of the upper wing had >roundels, as well as the underside of the lower wing. There >aren't enough for the upper wing, and the smaller decals are too >big for the lower wing. Sorry. > >So, do you want them back? Nah, keep them. If Eduard ever gets around to doing their Hanriot it will be in the big scale and I suspect I'll be able to get US Roundels in 1/48 then! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 12:10:59 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Nationals Idea Message-ID: <199703081710.MAA04805@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 10:53 PM 3/7/97 -0500, Alberto Rada wrote: >These shows are big and it has to be something >eye catching from a distance, so how about a >four color ( upper or lower ) lozegne jacket ?, >come on now really, it isn't at all a bad idea Yeah, but everybody would spend all day arguing over the correct colors!!!!;-}} Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 10:07:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi Subject: Boelcke Writes Home About Ghost Plane Message-ID: <199703081807.KAA29601@olympus.net> At 11:51 AM 3/8/97 Peter Kilduff quoted: > >The basic problem is that Gibbons used the wrong date. Setting aside that >*secondary* source and turning to a *primary* source of information, Boelcke >*did* mention this incident in his letters, as they appeared in _Hauptmann >Boelcke's Feldberichte_ (1916, pp. 117-118). And he clearly identified it as >occuring on 27 September (*not* 17 September) 1916. As I said in my introduction, I am now reading Boelcke's "authorized biography" published in 1933 by Johannes Werner. It is now available under the title "Knight of Germany" and published by Vintage Aviation Library. The bulk of the text is mostly the letters which Boelcke wrote to his family in Germany. After the war, the family allowed Werner access to these letters. By looking at 27 SEPT 16 dates, I found the account of this incident in Boelcke's letters to his family: "Lagnicourt, 8.10.16 I have had a lot of work with the Staffel. No. 28 fell on the evening of the 19th. I met another five Englishmen in the Bapaume area about midday on the 27th. I was on patrol with four of my gentlemen......It was a mighty scrap. I got to grips with one....saw the Englishman go down...... I engaged another immediately-there were plenty of them. He tried to get away from me, but it did not avail-I hung on close behind at all time. Yet I was surprised at this opponents tenacity-I thought I really must have settled him some time before, but he kept flying round and round in the same sort of circles. At last I could stand it no longer-I said to myself that the man must be dead and the controls are jammed so as to keep the machine in normal position. So I flew quite close up to him-then I saw the man sprawling over the cockpit, dead. I left the machine to it's fate, having noted it's number-7495. When we got home, it came out that Sargent Reimann had also shot down a machine that bore the number 7495. To avoid doing either of us an injustice the staff officer acted on my suggestion that the victory should not be credited to anyone. After leaving No. 7495 I took another..........." A prior post from Peter Kilduff is quoted below so that the two accounts written by Boelcke can be compared. Regards, Fernando >Oswald Boelcke's short memoir _Hauptmann Boelckes Feldbericht_ (1916), pp. >117-118, notes that on 27 September 1916, the noted ace and four Jagdstaffel 2 >comrades attacked a flight of six Martinsyde G.100 single-seat bomber aircraft >near Bapaume. Boelcke shot down one of the Martinsyde "Elephants" (as they >were called -- and sure earned the sobriquet), which was credited as the 29th >of his 40 aerial victories. The aircraft was Martinsyde G.100 [serial >numbered] A.1568 of No. 27 Squadron, RFC. The pilot, 18-year-old 2/Lt Henry A. >Taylor, was killed in the fight. > >Next, Hauptmann Boelcke and Offizierstellvertreter Leopold Reimann closed on >another G.100 of the same flight. At first, Boelcke couldnt' understand why his >opponent didn't fall, but continued to fly in a great circle. He wrote: >"Finally it became apparent. I said to myself the fellow is long since dead >and the machine is held on course by the rubber cords on the the steering >mechanism being in the right-hand position. Therefore I flew right up next to >him and saw the opponent slumped over to the right, lying dead in the fuselage. >In order to know better which of my victories this one was (as it indeed had to >come down), I noted the [rudder serial] number -- 7495 -- pulled away from him >and then took on the next one." > >Neither Boelcke nor Reimann received credit for downing this RFC aircraft, >although the RFC Casualty List noted that 2/Lt Stephen Dendrino of No. 27 >Squadron (in Martinsyde G.100 7495) was reported to have come down within >German lines and died; the 27-year-old pilot was buried with military honors by >the Germans at Neuville-Vitasse, France. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 14:36:50 -0600 From: phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) To: "post wwi" Subject: 1/24 scale WW I kits Message-ID: <19970308205011.AAA22571@default> Has anyone here actually bought one of the 1/24th scale kits from Marco's Miniatures? I'm seriously thinking of ordering one, and I really don't want to throw away the money on a worthless kit. How are the shapes, the resin and white metal quality, and the decals? Thanks in advance. Paul Howard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 18:52:51 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/24 scale WW I kits Message-ID: <199703082252.SAA19386@fw.true.net> At 03:56 PM 08-03-97 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone here actually bought one of the 1/24th scale kits from Marco's >Miniatures? I'm seriously thinking of ordering one, and I really don't >want to throw away the money on a worthless kit. How are the shapes, the >resin and white metal quality, and the decals? Thanks in advance. > >Paul Howard > Saludos Paul, I have the Albatros D.V and it is a superb kit, when you see What smaller kits cost, this gives you back your money worth . Phoetch is so good that it is a shame to put the fuselage vacuforms Sides, I am in the slow process of building it and up to now its fine The scale is so big that you really have to be careful as any defect Will really show, they are coming now with a new kit and I will Buy it if it is only for keeps. If I have to pick on something that would be the propeller, this comes In resin and does not look all that ok, they also include some wood In two colors for you to laminate and carve one, well I left this for if I Ever get a life sentence in Zing Zing ( they closed it right ? ) then I Will start learning to carve wood , other alternative is go to Zighmeier And spend $ 12.00 for it. Saludos ALBERTO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 19:42:41 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Thursday, 8 March 1917, Raoenel near St Just Message-ID: <332231B1.1E0F@host.dmsc.net> 948. Very windy day. No flying. Wrote a letter to dear little Mother and one to Norman Howell. Took a walk into St Just with Walter Lovell this afternoon but we returned in time for tea. I may be able to get off tomorrow afternoon to go into Paris for the weekend. The Captain won't give me a real permission but will let me have an order of service to go in which will be just as good and very likely better. No word yet from Hugh Eastburn. Perhaps he is at the front instead of with the Paris section. He might have let me know long ago where he is but he hasn't. I can at least see Major and Mrs Parker if I go in which is more important to me anyway. I've got a lot of notes for the Major. from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 19:09:00 -0500 (EST) From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: TV show Message-ID: <970308190859_1250221356@emout11.mail.aol.com> I saw the bit on the bombers. It was, frankly, a bit rushed. Pete was talking in great detail on the aircraft and you could they only showed a clipped segment of his discussion. And of all things, they did not mention either the Staaken or the Fredricshaffen bombers or the AEG GIV which Pete even says was the best design. This show was about as telling as a test drive at an auto dealer! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 97 18:37:56 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[4]: scratchbuilding subject Message-ID: <9702088578.AA857875570@mx.Ricochet.net> Paul, Understandable. Copied your stuff today and will mail it soon. Good Luck with your project, and may you see it through to completion (I've a bad habit of not doing this-short of attention span but long on ambition.) Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: scratchbuilding subject Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 3/8/97 7:27 AM I understood you, but would prefer not to think of it in that context. After all, I would hope that any "phallic" symbol that I would fixate on, would be at least moderately successful........;-) Paul ---------- > From: Shelley Goodwin > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re[2]: scratchbuilding subject > Date: Friday, March 07, 1997 11:18 PM > > I was referring to the "winged phallus" appearance of the Vickers FB > 12. Maybe I'm 'projecting' a Freudian hang-up... > > Riordan > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Re: scratchbuilding subject > Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet > Date: 3/7/97 7:24 PM > > > As to the Freudian reason for the affinity for the FB 12, it's definitely > possible. After all, I build in more than one scale. Maybe that makes me > indecisive........ What do you think? Maybe I'll ask my mother......... > > Snail Mail Address: > > P Howard > 2634 South 10th St. > Abilene, TX 79605 USA > > And thanks for the help! > > ---------- > > From: Shelley Goodwin > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: Re: scratchbuilding subject > > Date: Thursday, March 06, 1997 11:00 PM > > > > Paul, > > > > Might there be some Freudian reason behind your affinity for this > > 'plane? ;-) > > Seriously, I can offer you the old Harleyford drawings/text and a > few > > other odds & sods. Just post your snail male (heh) address and I'll > > put you at the bottom of the library mailing list. > > > > Riordan > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > > Subject: scratchbuilding subject > > Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet > > Date: 3/6/97 7:38 PM > > > > > > I'm trying to locate good drawings and photos of the Vickers FB 12. I > > intend to scratchbuild at least one type. Eventually, I hope to build > > both the FB 12a and the FB 12c. I can't explain my like for it, and I > > know it wasn't a pivotal A/C but it has always interested me. The models > > > will be in either 1/48th or 1/32nd scale. I'm more than willing to pay > for > > the cost of reproduction of the materials. Any help you guys can send my > > > way would be greatly appreciated! > > > > Thanks, > > Paul Howard > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 97 18:44:28 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: "blonde" Albatros plywood Message-ID: <9702088578.AA857875580@mx.Ricochet.net> Any out-of-the jar/tin paint color suggestions? I'm beginning to appreciate Humbrol tins; they seal very nicely. Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 21:33:39 -0600 From: phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) To: Subject: Re: "blonde" Albatros plywood Message-ID: <19970309034656.AAA11827@default> Radome Tan from Floquil is a good base for a "blonde" Albatros fuselage. Used it on my D.III. Worked fine. Good Luck. Paul ---------- > From: Shelley Goodwin > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: "blonde" Albatros plywood > Date: Saturday, March 08, 1997 8:52 PM > > Any out-of-the jar/tin paint color suggestions? I'm beginning to > appreciate Humbrol tins; they seal very nicely. > > Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 08:45:59 +0000 From: "Stuart L. Malone" To: wwi Subject: RE: Nationals Idea / Silver EIII Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970308224854.00694d10@sound.net> At 11:59 PM 3/7/97 -0500, you wrote: >I vote for the Blue Max pin too. However if you completed the Glencoe Albatross or any Merlin models I think you should go for the VC :-) > >---------- >From: Kevin Wenker[SMTP:kwenker@interaccess.com] > >How about a pin with a little Blue Max on it? >Kevin Wenker > On the subject of medal replicas, the company a friend of mine dealt with is called Replica Models Inc. out of Alexandria, VA. He hasn't seen a catalog for many years, so I couldn't get a full address out of him. They did carry a full array of medals. An interesting note, when my friend purchased a few Pour Le Merits about ten years ago, he noticed the color on the single sided medal was more consistent with surviving authentics than the double sided. At that time, the single sided medals were around $10, and the doubles were around $15. Since I am unable to attend the nationals anyway, I would vote for the lozenge jacket, upper surface on the outside, inner liner of lower surface. Also, you could designate four color for 'scale of kings' and five color for 'king of scales' or vice-versa. Also, I emailed a guy named Ivar Wigar, who was looking for a way to simulate the silver finish on a Fokker EIII. The problem is that the 'kit' is a 1/8 scale RC thingy. He posted the question to RMS. If I remember correctly, Pfalzs were 'painted' silver by mixing aluminum powder with dope, and applying liberally. Was I way off the mark, or halfway close. (I'd hate to be responsible for some poor RC schmuck ruining his 'model', but then again.....) No seriously, I think he's the exception to the rule. It sounds as if he's going all out to make the thing look 100% accurate, unlike most other RC modellers. He was actually following a known subject. I forget which serial number, but he said he had a nice packet of reference, but nothing as to the color, other than 'silver'. Well enough of my diatribe! Nashledanou! Stuart L. Malone ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:19:07 -0600 (CST) From: john@rollmodels.com (John Roll) To: wwi Subject: Re: Mr. Roll, got the Eduard Pfalz yet? Message-ID: Riordan asked: > So, what about it John? Unfortunately, no. The last time I ordered, I missed -- I don't know whether the problem was that they hadn't received or whether they were out, although I suspect the latter. They don't tell you that kinda stuff. I've just sent another and I hope to have it and them in a few weeks. Thanks for asking -- and for your patience! John Roll ******************************************* John Roll john@rollmodels.com Vice President and Chief Modeler for ROLL MODELS, INC. THE Internet source for plastic model kits, books and supplies GREAT STUFF! GREAT PRICES! GREAT SERVICE! http://www.rollmodels.com phone: 612-545-0399 fax: 612-545-0899 ******************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:25:57 -0600 From: "huggins@onramp.net" To: wwi Subject: RE: Nationals Idea / Silver EIII Message-ID: >At 11:59 PM 3/7/97 -0500, you wrote: > >>I vote for the Blue Max pin too. However if you completed the Glencoe >Albatross or any Merlin models I think you should go for the VC :-) >> >>---------- >>From: Kevin Wenker[SMTP:kwenker@interaccess.com] >> >>How about a pin with a little Blue Max on it? >>Kevin Wenker >> > >On the subject of medal replicas, the company a friend of mine dealt with >is called Replica Models Inc. out of >Alexandria, VA. He hasn't seen a catalog for many years, so I couldn't get >a full address out of him. They did >carry a full array of medals. An interesting note, when my friend >purchased a few Pour Le Merits about ten years >ago, he noticed the color on the single sided medal was more consistent >with surviving authentics than the double sided. >At that time, the single sided medals were around $10, and the doubles were >around $15. > >Since I am unable to attend the nationals anyway, I would vote for the >lozenge jacket, upper surface on the outside, inner >liner of lower surface. Also, you could designate four color for 'scale of >kings' and five color for 'king of scales' or vice-versa. The jacket is a nice idea, but where and from whom do you get them made anw what would be the cost. Also, some of us are going to be there in a business mode and would not be able to wear a jacket as such, but a pin or badge would be acceptable. If a suitable image about 1.75 inches in diameter could be decided on, I could come up with the Badge-a-minute materials and make some. They could be picked up at my booth in Columbus, or we can work out some type of mailing system. The badges are your garden variety that are about 2.25 in in diameter. John Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 11:33:39 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Nationals Idea / Silver EIII Message-ID: <199703091633.LAA07103@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 09:46 AM 3/9/97 -0500, Stuart L. Malone wrote: > >Since I am unable to attend the nationals anyway, I would vote for the >lozenge jacket, upper surface on the outside, inner >liner of lower surface. Also, you could designate four color for 'scale of >kings' and five color for 'king of scales' or vice-versa. > Nashledanou! Stuart and anyone else 2 questions: 1, What nationals is everyone talking about? 2, What does nashledanou mean? Ever in search of knowledge...or eliminating my own ignorance, Mike Muth ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 460 *********************