WWI Digest 459 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: WWI List Insignia by "Bill Ciciora" 2) Re: Nationals Idea by "Brian Bushe" 3) Re: Getting started/Airbrushes by Sandy Adam 4) Re: scratchbuilding subject by phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) 5) Re: US roundels by mbittner@juno.com 6) Re: Getting started/Airbrushes by phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) 7) RE: TV show by Peter Kilduff 8) Re: Nationals Idea by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 9) Re: Nationals Idea by Alberto Rada 10) RAF by Alberto Rada 11) Re: Getting started/Airbrushes by "Rob " 12) Re: Nationals Idea by "Rob " 13) RE: Nationals Idea by Ray Boorman 14) RE: Nationals Idea by Ray Boorman 15) Re: Nationals Idea by "Stuart L. Malone" 16) Re[2]: scratchbuilding subject by "Shelley Goodwin" 17) Re: Nationals Idea by aero@baynet.net (Jim Lyzun) 18) Re: Re[2]: scratchbuilding subject by phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) 19) Items from the "Over the Front" virtual chapter by Peter Kilduff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:29:06 -0600 From: "Bill Ciciora" To: Subject: Re: WWI List Insignia Message-ID: Rob wrote: > I have it! D'Annunzio and La Serenissima over Vienna! I love it! That one gets my vote! Bill C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:47:55 +0000 From: "Brian Bushe" To: wwi Subject: Re: Nationals Idea Message-ID: <199703071750.RAA08641@itl.net> re: Re: Nationals Idea > > Somehow, someway, we should come up with something > > to show everybody that we're members of this list. > > Everyone would get one, and then we would wear it > > whever we attend *any* modeling or WW1 related activity. > > > How about a large, gaudy colored T-shirt that says "Balloon Scale", > or "Munchkin Scale"? Perhaps I Love Brain Surgery/ Breast Surgery? Brian 'My mind is going. There is no question of it' - Hal 9000 Brian Bushe syclone@itl.net Syclone Systems Fieldhouse Lane (44) 01628 476 500 Marlow Fax 01628 475 522 Buckinghamshire SL7 1LU England ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:06:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Getting started/Airbrushes Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Rob wrote: > Sandy writes > > But, in Scotland, in winter, airbrushing means a cold utility room and > > trying to avoid spraying the cats' food bowls PC10. > > I hadn't really thought about it before, but a nice coat of PC10 > might improve the average cat. It would certainly seal the hair down > nicely and keep it off of the models and out of the paint jars. > Rojo, I just knew somehow you would not be a cat man: officially this makes you one tit short of an udder. Sandy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:21:50 -0600 From: phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) To: Subject: Re: scratchbuilding subject Message-ID: <19970308003751.AAA5640@default> As to the Freudian reason for the affinity for the FB 12, it's definitely possible. After all, I build in more than one scale. Maybe that makes me indecisive........ What do you think? Maybe I'll ask my mother......... Snail Mail Address: P Howard 2634 South 10th St. Abilene, TX 79605 USA And thanks for the help! ---------- > From: Shelley Goodwin > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: scratchbuilding subject > Date: Thursday, March 06, 1997 11:00 PM > > Paul, > > Might there be some Freudian reason behind your affinity for this > 'plane? ;-) > Seriously, I can offer you the old Harleyford drawings/text and a few > other odds & sods. Just post your snail male (heh) address and I'll > put you at the bottom of the library mailing list. > > Riordan > > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: scratchbuilding subject > Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet > Date: 3/6/97 7:38 PM > > > I'm trying to locate good drawings and photos of the Vickers FB 12. I > intend to scratchbuild at least one type. Eventually, I hope to build > both the FB 12a and the FB 12c. I can't explain my like for it, and I > know it wasn't a pivotal A/C but it has always interested me. The models > will be in either 1/48th or 1/32nd scale. I'm more than willing to pay for > the cost of reproduction of the materials. Any help you guys can send my > way would be greatly appreciated! > > Thanks, > Paul Howard > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 19:37:51 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: US roundels Message-ID: <19970307.184021.13446.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:50:59 -0500 bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) writes: > They are 1/72 Blue Rider from a sheet on US aircraft...for some > unknown reason they don't have a SPAD or N. 28. They do have > ones for a Hanriot that might work. If you want it, let me know > and I'll mail it to your regular address if you send it. Thanks, Mike, the decals came yesterday. Unfortunately, they won't work. On most Nieuports, both sides of the upper wing had roundels, as well as the underside of the lower wing. There aren't enough for the upper wing, and the smaller decals are too big for the lower wing. Sorry. So, do you want them back? Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 18:29:01 -0600 From: phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) To: Subject: Re: Getting started/Airbrushes Message-ID: <19970308004355.AAA6038@default> Cats? You mean mobile dog food? Just kidding ;-) Paul Three dogs, one cat, a hamster, and a goldfish ---------- > From: Sandy Adam > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Getting started/Airbrushes > Date: Friday, March 07, 1997 12:11 PM > > > > On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Rob wrote: > > > Sandy writes > > > But, in Scotland, in winter, airbrushing means a cold utility room and > > > trying to avoid spraying the cats' food bowls PC10. > > > > I hadn't really thought about it before, but a nice coat of PC10 > > might improve the average cat. It would certainly seal the hair down > > nicely and keep it off of the models and out of the paint jars. > > > Rojo, I just knew somehow you would not be a cat man: officially this > makes you one tit short of an udder. Sandy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:52:09 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Kilduff To: wwi Subject: RE: TV show Message-ID: <970307195209.2026f280@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> FYI, the three-part series mentioned is also available under the title "Aviation Week's Air Power Showdown." Produced by _Aviation Week & Space Technology_ magazine. I didn't know it would be televised and I don't see the magazine on a regular basis, so I don't have the particulars. No doubt, local libraries that carry the magazine will (or should) have the issue(s) with info. It's a nicely done series, with good footage of aircraft in various roles, missions, etc. PK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:54:42 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Nationals Idea Message-ID: <199703080254.VAA02654@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 12:07 PM 3/7/97 -0500, Michel LEFORT wrote: >On Thu, 6 Mar 1997 12:47:02 -0500, you wrote: > >> How about a large, gaudy colored T-shirt that says "Balloon Scale", >>or "Munchkin Scale"? >>>=20 >> [hee hee hee hee] ...Oh, sorry.... ;^) >> >And why not a small Belgian Hanriot HD-1 with a balloon being shot down >in flames. This would be very satisfying: munchkin (HD-1) and balloon >scale (guess why) and furthermore BELGIAN ;-). Yes! I may change my vote again. I've been trying to talk the guy at Sky Etchings into just this design for a year now! So far, no luck. Not a big enough market according to him. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 23:49:16 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Nationals Idea Message-ID: <199703080349.XAA06378@fw.true.net> These shows are big and it has to be something eye catching from a distance, so how about a four color ( upper or lower ) lozegne jacket ?, come on now really, it isn't at all a bad idea SALUDOS ALBERTO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 00:03:18 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: RAF Message-ID: <199703080403.AAA06563@fw.true.net> I just received a book from the Royal Air Force Museum Shop In London, titled Classic RAF Battles from WW I to the Present And the 3 first chapters are: Lieutenant Warneford's Great Exploit The Last Fight of Werner Boss The Flying Sword: Fokker D.VII Dogfight And guess who the author of the first and Third chapter is ? no more no less than Peter Kilduff It is commented therein that Peter was awarded The Cross of the Order of Merit by the Federal Republic of Germany, so knowing that the Britts Are second to none, we may expect now nothing less than a Knighthood. More serious now, it is really a most enjoyable reading SALUDOS ALBERTO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:05:07 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re: Getting started/Airbrushes Message-ID: <199703080409.XAA22968@newman.concentric.net> Actually, I like cats (though I can't have one any more due to the better half's allergies). I just understand what most cat people don't: the relation between Man and Cat is not one of companionship and devotion like Man and Dog. One keeps a cat to remind oneself that, no matter how bad things are, we are still at the top of the food chain. Your cats think about killing and eating you at least once every day. They just don't dare do it. And there, in a nutshell, is the whole charm of the cat. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:22:56 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re: Nationals Idea Message-ID: <199703080427.XAA01349@newman.concentric.net> > These shows are big and it has to be something > eye catching from a distance, so how about a > four color ( upper or lower ) lozegne jacket ?, > come on now really, it isn't at all a bad idea How about a lozenge tux or "party suit" like the jungle-camo ones the kerosene-burner flyboys used to go in for in Southeast Asia? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 20:52:29 -0800 From: Ray Boorman To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Nationals Idea Message-ID: <01BC2B39.80119F20@lynx1149.lynx.bc.ca> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2B39.80194040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I vote for the Blue Max pin too. However if you completed the Glencoe Albatross or any Merlin models I think you should go for the VC :-) ---------- From: Kevin Wenker[SMTP:kwenker@interaccess.com] Sent: Friday, March 07, 1997 6:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Nationals Idea How about a pin with a little Blue Max on it? Kevin Wenker ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2B39.80194040 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IioEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADAFAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAAB3d2lAcGVhc2UxLnNyLnVuaC5lZHUAU01UUAB3d2lAcGVhc2UxLnNyLnVuaC5lZHUA AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAAB3d2lAcGVhc2UxLnNyLnVuaC5lZHUA AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3d3aUBwZWFzZTEuc3IudW5oLmVkdScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpXV0lAUEVBU0UxLlNSLlVOSC5FRFUAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAAF+DQBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAEwAA AFJFOiBOYXRpb25hbHMgSWRlYQAtBgEFgAMADgAAAM0HAwAHABQANAAdAAUASAEBIIADAA4AAADN BwMABwAUADQAHQAFAEgBAQmAAQAhAAAAQjYxRjBEMjcyNTk3RDAxMTg3QUE0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA zAYBA5AGAIgDAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAoOLWhnwr vAEeAHAAAQAAABMAAABSRTogTmF0aW9uYWxzIElkZWEAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8K3yGzVZb/u6X KBHQh6pERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAUAAAAcmJvb3JtYW5AbHlu eC5iYy5jYQADAAYQweTqdQMABxAhAQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASVZPVEVGT1JUSEVCTFVFTUFYUElO VE9PSE9XRVZFUklGWU9VQ09NUExFVEVEVEhFR0xFTkNPRUFMQkFUUk9TU09SQU5ZTUVSTElOTU9E RUxTSVRISU5LWU9VU0hPVUxER09GTwAAAAACAQkQAQAAABMCAAAPAgAA4wMAAExaRnVjfJyT/wAK AQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKA fQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUQUL8mMAQCBJIHZvTRPQIAIQBcB0aBtA QsMKQQXQYXggcAuAG5AAb28uIEhvd2VKdgSQIAaQIHkIYCC9BaBtC1ARwAmAG5NHHjAGbgWgG0BB bGJhdG8DYAQRBbEAcHkF0ASQbHscgQRibAQgGvAboAuAaykdo3NoCGBsHnBnb4EbV1ZDIDotKQqF IwqLIJAxODAC0WkteDE0NA3wDNAlYwtZMa42CqADYBPQYwVALSeHrwqHJjsMMCcGRgNhOiiOsycG DIIgSx0wHIFXCfACawSQW1NNVFA6tmsdICzCQAuAE9ByANDSYweQcy4d8V0oLyk9HwZgAjAqbyt7 KiBpZGEUeSwcIXIRcCAwNwEzYDE5OTcgNjo0MDQUsE0u7yk9VG9rMS8re00iMHQFIB4wIP0WEGMF IAiQAjAf0R2QIJDHE8A07y/+dWJqJ0E3D6kre1JlPQBOH4BpAiA3B0AhIQ2wYSOPJJMzNr8mBxpF JwYdASAQBuB1BUD+YRxjA/AboEORIJACQDlB5xvnAiAdcHQ/CoUsSkAMX0B/QY8nFQqFFTEASyAA AwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzAgSbMedyu8AUAACDCg4taGfCu8AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAA8eU= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2B39.80194040-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:00:37 -0800 From: Ray Boorman To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Nationals Idea Message-ID: <01BC2B3A.9F4F4080@lynx1149.lynx.bc.ca> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2B3A.9F4F4080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From some of the messages I've seen I thought you were all going to wear Lozenge Rubbers :-) (Now running very quickly for cover. Ray Boorman (rboorman@lynx.bc.ca) PS if my mail is appearing weird can someone email me back. I've switched to Microsoft Mail/Exchange and it definately has some peculiarities! ---------- From: Rob [SMTP:rojo1@concentric.net] Sent: Friday, March 07, 1997 8:30 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Nationals Idea > These shows are big and it has to be something > eye catching from a distance, so how about a > four color ( upper or lower ) lozegne jacket ?, > come on now really, it isn't at all a bad idea How about a lozenge tux or "party suit" like the jungle-camo ones the kerosene-burner flyboys used to go in for in Southeast Asia? ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2B3A.9F4F4080 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiwFAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ACQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEkAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAAB3d2lAcGVhc2UxLnNyLnVuaC5lZHUAU01UUAB3d2lAcGVhc2UxLnNyLnVuaC5lZHUA AAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABYAAAB3d2lAcGVhc2UxLnNyLnVuaC5lZHUA AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAYAAAAJ3d3aUBwZWFzZTEuc3IudW5oLmVkdScAAgEL MAEAAAAbAAAAU01UUDpXV0lAUEVBU0UxLlNSLlVOSC5FRFUAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYP AQAAAAQAAAAAAAAD9DQBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAEwAA AFJFOiBOYXRpb25hbHMgSWRlYQAtBgEFgAMADgAAAM0HAwAHABUAAAAlAAUAHQEBIIADAA4AAADN BwMABwAUADgACwAFADoBAQmAAQAhAAAARjFGRTVCNTYyODk3RDAxMTg3QUE0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA 5wYBA5AGABgFAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAIKyvqX0r vAEeAHAAAQAAABMAAABSRTogTmF0aW9uYWxzIElkZWEAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8K32pr1Zb/vKX KBHQh6pERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAUAAAAcmJvb3JtYW5AbHlu eC5iYy5jYQADAAYQriCs/wMABxCHAgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAARlJPTVNPTUVPRlRIRU1FU1NBR0VT SVZFU0VFTklUSE9VR0hUWU9VV0VSRUFMTEdPSU5HVE9XRUFSTE9aRU5HRVJVQkJFUlM6LSkoTk9X UlVOTklOR1ZFUllRVUlDS0xZRk9SQwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAKEDAACdAwAA3AUAAExaRnX1B/YH/wAK AQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKA fQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUSUL8mMAQCBGA2EgcwEDcGUgb2YgdGgj G3AHgXNhZweRSSd+dhtwEbAJ8ByAG7EIYGfKaAVAeQhgIHcEkBtwUwdAAyBnbwuAZxuwb+MeAQrB TG96CfAcUAfwGHViYgSQBCA6LSkQIChObwfgcnVuBwMAHtEcsHJ5IHF18Glja2whwAIQBcAFoE0h kS4KhQqFUmEhwEJmbwWwA4IocgbgJENAASIwbnguYmMuY/RhKQqFUAXwBpAb8CHAzwDAAxEEAB5Q cHAfQR7C/R4QaQsgIpADkRtCAiAbcJcT4CcCG2FiANBrLhyFvQPwdBFwCYAe8QqFTSIAHwNgG0AB gAXQJwEvRXjfEXEfwgBwKFAqkCANsQuAfmET0CIxEYAEIBtDJ5BjLHVsBzAFEHQIkHMhRyMMCvQv ADE4MALRafAtMTQ0DfAM0DGDC1lcMTYKoANgE9BjBUAtvzOnCocyWwwwMyYa8jo0ri8zJgyCB/E4 QDwDYGpvpDFABaBuYwnwdAUQAyWgKQB0PltTTVTsUDo4vznBXTRPNV0GYE8CMDaPN5sa8GlkI/As RSwhchFwIDA3QDAxADk5NyA4OjMwzSZQTTu/NV1Ubz3/N5u+TS7wL1ALUBtwFhBjBSD/CJACMAQg G5EvABPAQb88zl0gEGozYUPfN5xlSdBOvS3QaQIgB0AccQ2wYS+vuTCzMzYyJxpFMyY+Q6BvG9AR sBswHWB3J1EeMWL+aR7gLRUuMh8BIDAbMxvA5x7BCoVP0GV5G3AlwCqh/x7CA1IeUC1wRzEAcDlA QDD/G0AuICDhAaAIYAVAVIBS158CEAhwIpEVoSCwIHUnge8FwAWxFaAeESAgoBWgH6AaZykBainR EcAgPyzvUtcFoBtiA6BuIOIfQB5w50AhLVEEAG4nVfFV8R5x71SAKcAtMUyoSFWJWKIfwqh0dXhX 4iIKsXQhwPJzIfB0IkcRWVAbswqF6mohIGdGEC0lwARgWoG/B5EbwllQK8EJ8GFgYghwdykABcAY 4HkG4BOwI2Z1fxGwKuIekSaAA6AiYmUBUy9V0RvQLkAFQEEAkGE/vyMMTU9OXzM1CoUVMQBqsAAA AAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwYCMaC30rvAFAAAgwYCMaC30rvAEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTog AAAAABRz ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2B3A.9F4F4080-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 23:10:33 +0000 From: "Stuart L. Malone" To: wwi Subject: Re: Nationals Idea Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970307230903.00696418@sound.net> At 11:35 PM 3/7/97 -0500, you wrote: >> These shows are big and it has to be something >> eye catching from a distance, so how about a >> four color ( upper or lower ) lozegne jacket ?, >> come on now really, it isn't at all a bad idea >How about a lozenge tux or "party suit" like the >jungle-camo ones the kerosene-burner flyboys >used to go in for in Southeast Asia? > > Oh YYYYYEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!! A four or five colored jumper! Put some high collars and bell bottoms on it and you'd be the envy of every Elvis impersonator on your block? BTW, where does the 'upper' surface stop, and the 'lower' surface begin? After all, we'd want to be historically accurate, wouldn't we? Nashledanou! Stuart L. Malone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Mar 97 21:11:51 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: scratchbuilding subject Message-ID: <9702078577.AA857798053@mx.Ricochet.net> I was referring to the "winged phallus" appearance of the Vickers FB 12. Maybe I'm 'projecting' a Freudian hang-up... Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: scratchbuilding subject Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 3/7/97 7:24 PM As to the Freudian reason for the affinity for the FB 12, it's definitely possible. After all, I build in more than one scale. Maybe that makes me indecisive........ What do you think? Maybe I'll ask my mother......... Snail Mail Address: P Howard 2634 South 10th St. Abilene, TX 79605 USA And thanks for the help! ---------- > From: Shelley Goodwin > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: scratchbuilding subject > Date: Thursday, March 06, 1997 11:00 PM > > Paul, > > Might there be some Freudian reason behind your affinity for this > 'plane? ;-) > Seriously, I can offer you the old Harleyford drawings/text and a few > other odds & sods. Just post your snail male (heh) address and I'll > put you at the bottom of the library mailing list. > > Riordan > > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: scratchbuilding subject > Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet > Date: 3/6/97 7:38 PM > > > I'm trying to locate good drawings and photos of the Vickers FB 12. I > intend to scratchbuild at least one type. Eventually, I hope to build > both the FB 12a and the FB 12c. I can't explain my like for it, and I > know it wasn't a pivotal A/C but it has always interested me. The models > will be in either 1/48th or 1/32nd scale. I'm more than willing to pay for > the cost of reproduction of the materials. Any help you guys can send my > way would be greatly appreciated! > > Thanks, > Paul Howard > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 09:59:26 -0500 From: aero@baynet.net (Jim Lyzun) To: wwi Subject: Re: Nationals Idea Message-ID: <199703081459.JAA00628@focus.baynet.net> I vote for the jacket! Jim Lyzun ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 09:12:47 -0600 From: phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) To: Subject: Re: Re[2]: scratchbuilding subject Message-ID: <19970308152601.AAA8054@default> I understood you, but would prefer not to think of it in that context. After all, I would hope that any "phallic" symbol that I would fixate on, would be at least moderately successful........;-) Paul ---------- > From: Shelley Goodwin > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re[2]: scratchbuilding subject > Date: Friday, March 07, 1997 11:18 PM > > I was referring to the "winged phallus" appearance of the Vickers FB > 12. Maybe I'm 'projecting' a Freudian hang-up... > > Riordan > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Re: scratchbuilding subject > Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet > Date: 3/7/97 7:24 PM > > > As to the Freudian reason for the affinity for the FB 12, it's definitely > possible. After all, I build in more than one scale. Maybe that makes me > indecisive........ What do you think? Maybe I'll ask my mother......... > > Snail Mail Address: > > P Howard > 2634 South 10th St. > Abilene, TX 79605 USA > > And thanks for the help! > > ---------- > > From: Shelley Goodwin > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > Subject: Re: scratchbuilding subject > > Date: Thursday, March 06, 1997 11:00 PM > > > > Paul, > > > > Might there be some Freudian reason behind your affinity for this > > 'plane? ;-) > > Seriously, I can offer you the old Harleyford drawings/text and a > few > > other odds & sods. Just post your snail male (heh) address and I'll > > put you at the bottom of the library mailing list. > > > > Riordan > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > > Subject: scratchbuilding subject > > Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet > > Date: 3/6/97 7:38 PM > > > > > > I'm trying to locate good drawings and photos of the Vickers FB 12. I > > intend to scratchbuild at least one type. Eventually, I hope to build > > both the FB 12a and the FB 12c. I can't explain my like for it, and I > > know it wasn't a pivotal A/C but it has always interested me. The models > > > will be in either 1/48th or 1/32nd scale. I'm more than willing to pay > for > > the cost of reproduction of the materials. Any help you guys can send my > > > way would be greatly appreciated! > > > > Thanks, > > Paul Howard > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 1997 11:47:43 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Kilduff To: wwi-l@raven.CC.UKANS.EDU Subject: Items from the "Over the Front" virtual chapter Message-ID: <970308114743.20286d20@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> From: SMTP%"ilyam@pipeline.com" 7-MAR-1997 22:50:46.91 To: distribution Subj: In The Air 03/07/97 #46 **************************************************************************** *********** Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:23:01 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Kilduff To: ilyam@pipeline.COM Subject: Further comments on Boelcke's "ghost" opponent Carl, Your latest distribution sheds new light on the misunderstanding concerning Oswald Boelcke's encounter with a so-called "ghost" opponent. To further clarify the matter, let's go back to the beginning: >THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL POST FROM SEPT 17, 1996 > >From: gypsywlf@ultranet.com (Micheal) >To: wwi-l@raven.cc.ukans.edu >Subject: Ghost Story: 17 September 1916 > >Too early for Hallowe'en, but appropriate for the day... > >(after encounter between RFC 11 Squadron and Jagdstaffel 2 over the Somme >region, 17.9.16) > "Apparently undamaged by the repeated attacks, the English plane >continued onward without firing a single shot in reply. It flew apparently >under good control, and its course was that of a large circle to the left. > "Boelcke himself dived to position over the tail and, with his eyes >along the sights of his twin Spandaus, pressed the machine-gun trigger. >From above and behind he saw his bullets go into the bodies of the both the >pilot and observer, who were sitting bolt upright in their cockpits. Still >there was no return fire from the English plane, and still no deviation in >its course -- apparently no attempt to manoeuvre out of range and shake off >its pursuers. > "Boelcke wiggled his wings as a signal to his pupils to cease the attack. >Hovering above and around, the fledgelings watched the master fly some >minutes above the derelict, escorting it like a funeral plane as it flew >westward with the bodies of its air Vikings on their last flight. Before >changing course to return, Boelcke dipped his wings in a parting salute to >the dead." > >----- >from "The Red Knight of Germany: The Story of Baron von Richthofen," by >Floyd Gibbons (1927) ================================================== The basic problem is that Gibbons used the wrong date. Setting aside that *secondary* source and turning to a *primary* source of information, Boelcke *did* mention this incident in his letters, as they appeared in _Hauptmann Boelcke's Feldberichte_ (1916, pp. 117-118). And he clearly identified it as occuring on 27 September (*not* 17 September) 1916. Turning to another *primary* source, the daily air activity report of the "Stabsoffizier der Flieger der 1. Armee" (Officer in Charge of Aviation for the 1st Army), dated 21 September 1916, there is no mention of Boelcke encountering a Martinsyde G.100; rather, it confirms his 27th victory, an F.E.2b of No. 11 Squadron, RFC. If another *secondary* source is needed (even though two primary sources rule out 17 September), I suggest _German War Birds_ by "Vigilant" (n.d., circa 1930). By the way, that's the pen name of Claud W. Sykes, who in my view was THE premier translator of WW I German material. Sykes notes little Jasta 2 activity on 17 September and rolls on chronologically to a point about ten days later, when Boelcke's flight encountered the Martinsydes (of No. 27 Squadron). Indeed, on Page 65, Sykes footnotes the dead pilot's name as "Lieutenant S. Dendrino." (See my posting of March 3, 1997 for more about Dendrino, who perished on 27 September in a single-seat version of the Martinsyde G.100 -- not a two-seater, as Gibbons stated.) In a recent posting to the VC, a member asked about the level of interest in Manfred von Richthofen and questioned whether MvR really shot down 80 airplanes i.e., how can it be proved? I believe that Floyd Gibbons produced the first listing of MvR's victories and victims and for a long time thereafter that list was used without any further qualification. In developing my book _Richthofen: Behind the Legend of the Red Baron_, I used (and documented in the endnotes) *primary* sources such as Stofl/Kofl reports, the weekly "Nachrichtenblatt," et al. and learned that Gibbons was quite accurate. Had he documented his sources, he might have saved a lot of aggravation for future researchers. The bottom line is that Richthofen did shoot down *most* (if not all) of the 80 planes for which he received credit -- and probably a few for which he was not credited. Likewise, to return to the original subject (Boelcke's odd encounter), a review of first-hand German source material, corroborated by RFC records, removes any doubt that Boelcke had the encounter he described and on the date that *he* claimed it. Peter Kilduff **************************************************************************** ******** Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: "G. de Syon,History, Albright" To: ilyam@pipeline.com Subject: RE: In The Air 03/05/97 #45 In response to the query about studies of Western front mythology, besides Fussel's study, there is George Mosse's _Fallen Heroes: Reshaping the Memory of the World Wars_ (Oxford U. Press) mentions a few items regarding the general buildup of myth (postcards, etc...). Another study is that by Jay Winter (the same fellow who co-produced the WWI PBS documentary last year) called _Sites of Memory, Sites of Mourning_ (Cambridge U. Press), in which he tries to make sense out of monuments to the dead (what the state saw in them, but also what the families saw in them) as well as certain movies. Last but not least, there is a recent book of World War I and film, out from U. Michigan Press, but I have not read it. 'keep you posted, as I have students writing term papers on history and memory. Of course, this may seem old hat to most on this list, but you may want to look at the ongoing very interesting discussion about historiography in WWI Aero. There was also quite a bit of talk when the exhibit on WWI opened at Air and Space back in 1991. Besides the exhibit catalog, the discussion/review in _Over the Front_ (sometime in 1992) gives a sense of mythology/memory vs. history. On a separate topic, for any lucky devil who may be headed for France by early July, the departmental archives of Moselle have put together an exhibit entitled "Vues paralleles: Les aviateurs francais et allemands de la Grande Guerre 1914-1918" (Parallel outlooks: French and German aviators of the Great War, 1914-1918). The exhibit is at the Archives departementales, 1, allee du chateau, 57070 Saint-Julien-Les Metz. The archive is open M-F from 9 to 6 and Saturday from 8 to 12. Guillaume de Syon Albright College ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 459 *********************