WWI Digest 455 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: cottage industries by "Rob " 2) Re: Albatros loz. by Erik Pilawskii 3) Re: Welcome/Scale Wars by "S.M.Sundberg" 4) Re: Ilya Murometz by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 5) Re: Welcome/Scale Wars by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 6) RE: Welcome/Scale Wars by Shane Weier 7) RE: Albatros loz. by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 8) A 'Hi' and long-shot question by Dave Stewart 9) Re: A 'Hi' and long-shot question by barrett@iplink.net (barrett) 10) Re: Glencoe Models SPAD book by michel.lefort@ping.be (Michel LEFORT) 11) Re: Albatros loz. by mbittner@juno.com 12) Re: cottage industries by mbittner@juno.com 13) Re: A 'Hi' and long-shot question by mbittner@juno.com 14) Re: A 'Hi' and long-shot question by mbittner@juno.com 15) RE: A 'Hi' and long-shot question by "William B. Bacon, Jr." 16) Re: Albatros loz. by Tom Eisenhour 17) Re: Me by aew (Allan Wright) 18) Re: Welcome/Scale Wars by Tom Eisenhour 19) RE: cottage industries by "Brian Bushe" 20) Re: cottage industries by Bob Norgren 21) Re: cottage industries by Bob Norgren 22) Re: Welcome/Scale Wars by Sandy Adam 23) Re: Welcome/Scale Wars by Erik Pilawskii 24) by Peter Fedders 25) Re: A 'Hi' and long-shot question by Sandy Adam 26) Rep : Re: Ilya Murometz by Fportier@aol.com 27) Re: Albatros loz. by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:54:43 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re: cottage industries Message-ID: <199703050359.WAA05720@newman.concentric.net> My deux sous: The value of an object is what people are prepared to pay in order to have it. I don't have any of these high-priced resin wonders. I can scratch-build if I ever find the time to build, and styrene kit prices are already high enough to inhibit me--I build less because I do not want to screw things up. So if you don't like the prices these little guys charge, do what I do: don't pay. Now, Verlinden may be getting rich, but I doubt the others are. They are probably relatively efficient. They aren't dishonest (with, perhaps, one exception that we all know of). But cottage kits are like Ferraris or Lamborghinis, bespoke tailoring, hand-made shoes, and anything linen. They are rare, beautiful (or uglier than anything mass-market ever will be), and not very practical. For most of us, they are way too expensive considering that a Toyota or Chevrolet, an off-the-rack wool-blend, cotton-polyester, or sneakers can do most of what the prestige items can do and many things they can't (like start on wet mornings or get across a flooded winter gutter in chicago without wiping out the kid's college fund in the process). This is nobody's fault. It is just life. We tend to forget about the enormous difference economies of scale make, particularly for high quality goods and for tooling and shipping costs. I get a surprising number of inquiries about the non-existent print version of Chandelle. Charles and I looked into the possibility (he's done color printing and I'm in the tech book production racket). But it couldn't be made to fly. A minimalist publication (a page of color and two dozen pages of black and white) could easily have cost $20 an issue in press runs of 1000 (maybe more). Who would pay that? Maybe 800-100 guys world-wide, assuming that we could get word to them it was available. Assuming that we could spare the up-front money (NOT!) or get subscriptions without a product to show, I think we could have broken even or made a tiny profit. But it would never be worth our time as a business venture. I'd rather keep my day job, make a living, and give my magazine away over the net for free than sell it and get $1-2 per hour (or nothing) for my time. We also forget that breaking even is not enough. In the US, anyway, any business that does not turn a profit fairly soon (2 years?) is considered a hobby. Materials bought and salaries paid become eccentric luxuries rather than deductible expenses--you pay taxes on the money you are LOSING! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:18:32 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Albatros loz. Message-ID: > > >But, if true, perhaps that is what is going on with your > > >rubber covered with underside lozenge? > > > > Tee-hee! I meant, of course, "rudder", honest Erik! > > Dang! Underside lozenge, again.... And I wanted on top..... Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "Mr.Anchovy, perhaps you could move *towards* 'Lion Taming' via Banking, or even Insurance?..." .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 22:26:54 -0500 From: "S.M.Sundberg" To: wwi Subject: Re: Welcome/Scale Wars Message-ID: <331CE7FE.7C47@netins.net> Fernando E. Lamas, M.D. wrote: > > At 11:13 PM 3/3/97 -0500, you wrote: snip > 1/28's. > > I come as a neutral observer to this Scale War but, from what I snip > > 1/48 (The Breast Surgeons) > The breast surgeons work with much larger structures and therefore are > not as manually gifted as the brain surgeons. Although the brain surgeons > lord their greater skill over the breast surgeons, the breast surgeons just > smile because it is THEIR work that is going to end up on the cover of > "Cosmopolitan" magazine and that drives the brain surgeons crazy. snip > > Best regards, > Fernando Lamas Rubbers/rudders, now talking about "lifters". They say the web is driven by the pornography industry wanting better graphics. If this thread continues, we will need a better graphic interface here. Now on a serious note. Can anyone give me the title and/or publisher of a book from about 20 yrs ago on building "card" aircraft. I hope it might be available and able to help me with a bit of "scratching" of wings. TIA Steve Sundberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:23:26 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Ilya Murometz Message-ID: Rojo wrote: >FSM did a piece on a 1/32-scale museum model of the IM complete with >fairly detailed plans. I can find the ref. if anyone needs it. The >Flying Machines Press Russian book also has plans. Still others can >be found in the old Harleyford. Yeah, like you would trust these old Cold War era drawings ?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Mar 1997 22:30:16 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Welcome/Scale Wars Message-ID: Steve Sundberg writes: > >Now on a serious note. Can anyone give me the title and/or publisher of >a book from about 20 yrs ago on building "card" aircraft. I hope it >might be available and able to help me with a bit of "scratching" of >wings. I think that you mean a book written by Harry Woodman on modeling with plastic card, or words to that effect. This was probably published 20 years ago (??). I believe that Shane Weier of this list owns a copy and can give you the particulars. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:45:14 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Welcome/Scale Wars Message-ID: Steve, You ask about: >>Now on a serious note. Can anyone give me the title and/or publisher of >>a book from about 20 yrs ago on building "card" aircraft. I hope it >>might be available and able to help me with a bit of "scratching" of >>wings. > My bible and one of the most influential books in Plastic modelling "Scale Model Aircraft in Card" by Harry Woodman (name may be slightly wrong, I'll look at it tonight) Printed 30 years ago, and still relevant despite the arrival of CyA, resin and etched brass. Regards Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 00:11:27 -0800 (PST) From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: RE: Albatros loz. Message-ID: <199703050811.AAA15014@concord.televar.com> >Bill > >Astonishingly, you write: > >>>But, if true, perhaps that is what is going on with your >>>rubber covered with underside lozenge? > >Ultra thin, technicolour, ribbed, ticklered, I have heard of. > >But lozenge covered. WHAT a picture ;-) > >ROTFLMAO > >Shane Then there's the 5 color camo French Tickler...also available in aluminum dope... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 00:23:44 -0800 From: Dave Stewart To: wwi Subject: A 'Hi' and long-shot question Message-ID: <331D2D90.5F21@earthlink.net> Hello, folks! New to the list (been lurking since last Thursday or so), but it's a great bunch so far, and I'm all cranked up over buying a bunch of kits today in a private sale -- mostly run-of-the-mill (yes, 'dinky-toy' scale, if you're going there...) Airfix kits, but there's a couple of good ones mixed in and it's my first purchase outside of a hobby shop and I got the whole pile for about the same price as a couple of 'cottage industry' kits and anyway it's not right to deface any of these peoples' 'labor of love' with my current level of building 'skills', so it's better to carve up the faceless product of some impersonal corporation until I've 'earned the right to wear the lozenges' anyway and... Errr, oh, yeah, the question: I'm trying to find a book, possibly one of a trilogy(?), read about 20 years ago. It was fictional, but well written, much in the style of Heller's 'Catch-22', from the viewpoint of an RFC pilot flying Sopwith Dolphins late in the war (natch -- wouldn't do to set it earlier with him running around the field flapping his arms and shouting "I'm in a plane not invented yet" and making "BBBWWWWAAARRRVVVVSSHHHH" noises!). There was a bit towards the end when the main character was involved in parachute tests (here, the 'Catch-22' similarity was hoist high!), and, unfortunately, that's all I remember. Physically, it was a hardcover of fairly standard novel size, and new (or a new printing) as of about 1979 or so. Haven't got the nerve to pose this one to the ultra-urban San Francisco librarian set, with their zooty new building featuring every modern convenience except BOOKS THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY CHECK OUT (sorry, not really razzing the home team, but their WWI military history section is about nine volumes comprised of moldy Time-Life rejects and "A Study of Granola Consumption in the Trenches" ultra-PC research papers, and most of *them* are "reference only"!). Anyway, if anyone remembers title(s), author, name of principal characters etc., much less an actual source for a copy(ies) of this book, they could be happily rewarded with either my eternal gratitude or a Minicraft SPAD XIII 'short-shot' that was thrown in with today's sale. ;-) -DS- P.S. Love the daily postings of E.C.C. Genet's diary from 'homanger'! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 04:58:44 -0500 From: barrett@iplink.net (barrett) To: wwi Subject: Re: A 'Hi' and long-shot question Message-ID: Dave wrote: > > ...Airfix kits, but there's a couple of >good ones mixed in and it's my first purchase outside of a hobby shop >and I got the whole pile for about the same price as a couple of >'cottage industry' kits and anyway it's not right to deface any of these >peoples' 'labor of love' with my current level of building 'skills', so >it's better to carve up the faceless product of some impersonal >corporation until I've 'earned the right to wear the lozenges' anyway >and... If you've got the time and patience, try what I did about four months ago when I started into this list and re-entered the hobby: build ten or so "junk kits" to get your fingers limbered-up and re-discover the tricks you learned as a kid (like finger nail polish remover to disolve plastic cement). Then, when you've got the confidence back, search for those subjects you always wanted to try but were just too rare or expensive. For me it was a Pfalz DIIIa (I'm a George Peppard/Blue Max fan). I spent as much time building this Pegasus kit as the previous five subjects combined, but the pay-off in satisfaction was (and still is) great. By the way, stay away from the Airfix 2F1 Camel. It's got to be the worst of all kits available, bar none! Good luck finding your book. Kevin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 09:12:23 GMT From: michel.lefort@ping.be (Michel LEFORT) To: wwi Subject: Re: Glencoe Models SPAD book Message-ID: <3320389f.3773511@relay.ping.be> On Tue, 4 Mar 1997 17:13:51 -0500, you wrote: >Yep - worth the $8.00 for sure as long as the decals come with it. >But the rather large errata sheet included with the book makes you >kinda wonder about the caliber of the basic research that went into >it or how many errors it might still contain that aren't covered by >the errata sheet. > One amusing thing about the errata sheet is that it is word for word the errata sheet included with the original Aircam book, so I would say that there was no new research done on the book, it's merely a reprint. I'm fortunate enough to have both and I can say that I don't see any difference between them. The only little improvement(?) is the fact that the paper of the old edition has yellowed with time and some photos are somewhat clearer in the new edition. As someone else asked, the sheet with squadron markings is printed on the back cover (Aircam had his catalogue there). Regards. -- Michel Lefort - Braine-l'Alleud, Belgium IPMS Belgium Foreign Liaison Officer (member F147) http://www.ping.be/IPMS Plastic Modelling is holding History in your Hand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 06:01:56 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatros loz. Message-ID: <19970305.050458.11070.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:14:40 -0500 lothar@ncw.net (mark) writes: > Then there's the 5 color camo French Tickler...also available in > aluminum dope... Ouch!!! Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 06:01:56 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: cottage industries Message-ID: <19970305.050458.11070.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 4 Mar 1997 23:03:53 -0500 "Rob " writes: Thanks, Rob. You have put everything into perspective. A job well done. Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 06:01:57 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: A 'Hi' and long-shot question Message-ID: <19970305.050459.11070.3.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:55:45 -0500 barrett@iplink.net (barrett) writes: > By the way, stay away from the Airfix 2F1 Camel. It's got to be > the worst of all kits available, bar none! Ah, a lucky soul who has not built a Merlin kit yet. Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 06:01:57 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: A 'Hi' and long-shot question Message-ID: <19970305.050458.11070.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 5 Mar 1997 03:32:20 -0500 Dave Stewart writes: > New to the list (been lurking since last Thursday or so), but > it's a great bunch so far, and I'm all cranked up over buying a > bunch of kits today in a private sale -- mostly run-of-the-mill > (yes, 'dinky-toy' scale, if you're going there...) Airfix kits, > but there's a couple of good ones mixed in and it's my first > purchase outside of a hobby shop and I got the whole pile for > about the same price as a couple of 'cottage industry' kits and > anyway it's not right to deface any of these peoples' 'labor of > love' with my current level of building 'skills', so it's better > to carve up the faceless product of some impersonal corporation > until I've 'earned the right to wear the lozenges' anyway > and... Welcome!! And for the record, you can call it the King's Scale, or The Scale of Hustad. The other is known as Balloon Scale, or Braille Scale. ;-) > Errr, oh, yeah, the question: Gads, only on since last Thursday, and already you fit in so well. ;-) > Anyway, if anyone remembers title(s), author, name of principal > characters etc., much less an actual source for a copy(ies) of > this book, they could be happily rewarded with either my eternal > gratitude or a Minicraft SPAD XIII 'short-shot' that was thrown > in with today's sale. ;-) With that kind of incentive, I doubt you'll get an answer. Minicraft . Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 06:48:30 -0600 From: "William B. Bacon, Jr." To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: A 'Hi' and long-shot question Message-ID: <01BC2931.4FFF50C0@NJ049.NETJAVA.NET> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC2931.4FFF50C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave, Welcome. As you have seen, we are a group like no other. There is a = wealth of knowledge, ideas, help, and you name it here. Lay back and = join in the fun. Bill Bill Bacon wbacon@netjava.net ---------- From: Dave Stewart Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 1997 2:32 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: A 'Hi' and long-shot question Hello, folks! New to the list (been lurking since last Thursday or so), but it's a=20 great bunch so far, and I'm all cranked up over buying a bunch of kits=20 today in a private sale -- mostly run-of-the-mill (yes, 'dinky-toy'=20 scale, if you're going there...) Airfix kits, but there's a couple of=20 good ones mixed in and it's my first purchase outside of a hobby shop=20 and I got the whole pile for about the same price as a couple of=20 'cottage industry' kits and anyway it's not right to deface any of these = peoples' 'labor of love' with my current level of building 'skills', so=20 it's better to carve up the faceless product of some impersonal=20 corporation until I've 'earned the right to wear the lozenges' anyway=20 and... Errr, oh, yeah, the question: I'm trying to find a book, possibly one of a trilogy(?), read about 20=20 years ago. It was fictional, but well written, much in the style of Heller's=20 'Catch-22', from the viewpoint of an RFC pilot flying Sopwith Dolphins=20 late in the war (natch -- wouldn't do to set it earlier with him running = around the field flapping his arms and shouting "I'm in a plane not=20 invented yet" and making "BBBWWWWAAARRRVVVVSSHHHH" noises!). There was=20 a bit towards the end when the main character was involved in parachute=20 tests (here, the 'Catch-22' similarity was hoist high!), and,=20 unfortunately, that's all I remember. Physically, it was a hardcover of = fairly standard novel size, and new (or a new printing) as of about 1979 = or so. Haven't got the nerve to pose this one to the ultra-urban San Francisco=20 librarian set, with their zooty new building featuring every modern=20 convenience except BOOKS THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY CHECK OUT (sorry, not=20 really razzing the home team, but their WWI military history section is=20 about nine volumes comprised of moldy Time-Life rejects and "A Study of=20 Granola Consumption in the Trenches" ultra-PC research papers, and most=20 of *them* are "reference only"!). Anyway, if anyone remembers title(s), author, name of principal=20 characters etc., much less an actual source for a copy(ies) of this=20 book, they could be happily rewarded with either my eternal gratitude or = a Minicraft SPAD XIII 'short-shot' that was thrown in with today's sale. ;-) -DS- P.S. Love the daily postings of E.C.C. 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Message-ID: <331D9890.6C27@swbell.net> Bill Shatzer wrote: > But, as a preliminary aside, I seem to remember once reading that > ailerons were often covered with a single lozenge pattern on > both sides - either top or bottom as it was available. > > The explanation, as I recall, was that it was > easier just to wrap the fabric material around the leading edge > of the aileron and secure the top and bottom flaps of the > fabric at the trailing edge - thus avoid the complications > and potential weakness of stitching two separate pieces together > at both front and rear. And because the control surfaces were > often covered with whatever leftover scraps of fabric were > available, they used top or bottom lozenge indiscriminately, > depending on what was available at the time. Pretty bold statement, Bill! So if the ailerons were covered using this technique, you'd have either undersurface fabric on the aileron upper surface, upper surface fabric on the aileron lower surface, or maybe one of each? That WOULD look interesting. . . I can't recall seeing photos of aircraft where this seemed apparent - and I think it would stick out like a dog's you-know-whats. Maybe upper-surface fabric was most often used. Anyone else have any info on this? And while we're on the subject of lozenge-printed fabric, here's a question: was it up to each manufacturer to procure the fabric or was it supplied by the Luftstreitkrafte? Tom Eisenhour eisen@swbell.net "You don't even know what a rhetorical question is, do you? Of course you don't!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:36:51 -0500 (EST) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: Me Message-ID: <199703051336.IAA20356@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Hey, Al, did I get unsubscribed? For some reason, the only messages I got > today were from Alberto and Jose telling me they got my message. Do I need > to do something, or is this just some weird internet Bermuda triangle I fell > into today????? I checked the logs - your mail address was bouncing messages and the daemon automaticly unsubscribed you. It does that as a self preservation technique. Too many bounces slow it down immensely. Just resubscribe and you should be fine. You should check with your provider to see why your mail was bouncing too. Sorry, I didn't write the server software, I gusee that feature is a necessary evil of the system. -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | You fell victim to one of the 'classic' blunders! University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 08:30:39 -0800 From: Tom Eisenhour To: wwi Subject: Re: Welcome/Scale Wars Message-ID: <331D9FAF.51BC@swbell.net> Fernando E. Lamas, M.D. wrote: > 1/72 (The Brain Surgeons) (snip) Once the operation is finished, you can not see his work. ROTFL! > Above 1/32 or above (The Orthopeadic Surgeons) > The orthopeadic surgeons are met each day at the operating room door by a > nurse whose job it is to remind them to take the chewing gum out of their > mouths since, as everybody knows, orthopeadic surgeons do not have the > dexterity to operate and chew gum at the same time. Absolutely brilliant! Thanks, Fernando. I can see you've found a home on this list! BTW, what kind of doctor are YOU? (Obviously, NOT an orthopedic surgeon!) Tom Eisenhour eisen@swbell.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:55:32 +0000 From: "Brian Bushe" To: wwi Subject: RE: cottage industries Message-ID: <199703051357.NAA21551@itl.net> re: RE: cottage industries I guess a lot of it does come down to the tax man. Everyone days Blue Max/Pegasus kits are expensive, but over here there are cheap compared to DML kits of equivalent size. Eduard is even cheaper. Skybirds are still expensive, but each one has more to it. Brian 'My mind is going. There is no question of it' - Hal 9000 Brian Bushe syclone@itl.net Syclone Systems Fieldhouse Lane (44) 01628 476 500 Marlow Fax 01628 475 522 Buckinghamshire SL7 1LU England ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 10:35:23 +0000 From: Bob Norgren To: wwi Subject: Re: cottage industries Message-ID: <331D4C6B.4BD9@ne.infi.net> Joseph Gentile wrote: > Bob, not to instigate trouble or get your dander up, but what does the > future hold for the cottage industry? Is there a next generation? I think > I recall reading that some outfit in Arizona, Dromedary or something has > either invested in or bought "Tom's Modelwork's". From the sound of it you > are a one man show and I do not think your daughter is quite yet your > apprentice. Do you intend to come to St. Louis in May for the IPMS > Regionals? I'd love to check out that new DFW as well as an AEG G.IV. How > about that Gotha G.V will we get a peak at that baby here in the Gateway > City? Won't make it to SL this year. I'll have a table at the IPMS Nationals in Columbus. As for the cottage industry, I think you will always have some people making kits, though the model hobby seems to be aging without a lot of kids interested in filling in the ranks. When I was a kid, every one of my friends built models. Can the same be said of kids today? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 1997 10:42:41 +0000 From: Bob Norgren To: wwi Subject: Re: cottage industries Message-ID: <331D4E21.4BB0@ne.infi.net> mbittner@juno.com wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:44:05 -0500 Bob Norgren > writes: > > > Start your own business and see for yourself. But take my > > advice. Don't quit your day job... > > I never said it didn't take money, time and effort. I'm just > wondering why Sierra Scale (one of the premiere cottage > industries - thanks, Bob!) and others such as Rosemont can be > affordable while Skybirds and JMGT are so much more than > affordable. Probably because they have "complete" kits and farm out all the goodies to subcontractors, which in turn have to make a profit. Rosemont's kits are affordable because you don't get photoetched, decals, white metal, etc. Only the basic resin parts. As for my kits, I've cut out all the frills and have either injected small parts which I do myself on my little machine or Aeroclub "off the shelf" metal parts which I trade for. I'm debating now whether to go to resin for the structually complicated WWII kits this year but with metal parts and decals, the kits will have to retail in the $70-100 range. It gets expensive in a hurry when you have to pay for resin and white metal casting and decals. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:31:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Welcome/Scale Wars Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Fernando E. Lamas, M.D. wrote: > I come as a neutral observer to this Scale War but, from what I have > observed for the past six weeks, it is similar to the wars in medicine: Welcome, thrice welcome, Fernando - and thank you for one of the best intros yet! Always thought of myself as a breast man and you've just confirmed why. Sandy Adam Crieff Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:33:18 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Welcome/Scale Wars Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Fernando E. Lamas, M.D. wrote: > >>Welcome, Welcome Fernando! Fernando, let me chime in with another welcome, but this time from a member of the highly defamed, yet resiliently magnificent Master Scale (1:72)!... > >Pitch your tent in Joey's camp and be prepared to swat the swarms of 1/72 > >scale mosquitos that infest our ranks! > > ...Tsk tsk tsk... Mosquitos, eh? Even the insult is ex-period!.... :^) > I come as a neutral observer to this Scale War but, from what I have > observed for the past six weeks, it is similar to the wars in medicine: > > 1/72 (The Brain Surgeons) [snips] > 1/48 (The Breast Surgeons) [snips] > Above 1/32 or above (The Orthopeadic Surgeons) [snips] Ahhh haa haa haa!!! ROTFL!! Just smashing! The even funnier thing is that this *really does* hit the Surgeon's Pecking Order right on the head. Man, I'm gonna have to breath here.... Fernando, shall we observe that you are are indeed a Surgeon, or have you avoided this scheduling suicide by entering something less hectic, like Radiology or Pathology?... Or, even, *Research*? :^) Welcome aboard! Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "Mr.Anchovy, perhaps you could move *towards* 'Lion Taming' via Banking, or even Insurance?..." .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 12:48:29 -0600 From: Peter Fedders To: wwi Message-ID: <199703051848.MAA14457@howdy.wustl.edu> What is all this arguing about scale? When I wanted to build a FokkerDVII I had to build at 1/8 scale. That was the smallest scale that I could build in and still get screws etc that were to scale. Real modelers include all details! On brain surgeons: several of my Dr. friends tell me brain surgery is not that exacting - it's just that the public thinks so. Lots of reconstructive surgery is much harder and exacting. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 19:06:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A 'Hi' and long-shot question Message-ID: > > By the way, stay away from the Airfix 2F1 Camel. It's got to be the worst > of all kits available, bar none! > Kevin. Trust me, me trusties, I have built many Airfix Camels and it is a small gem compared to the bloody awful Glencoe Albatros. We mutually slag this kit periodically and then new members join our merry band and it is our duty to warn them away from it before they buy one, get it home, break the seal and shout OOOOOHHHH FFFFFFF************KKKKKKKK!! Maybe Al should include a health warning on the web page about this worst of all possible kits, before it turns new WW1 modellers into axe-murderers. (Is that where that thread came from?) (OK I'm sure some clever dick will say he's managed to build one - but that would get my vote for scratchbuilder of the year (and pervert).) A thousand welcomes to all new members - lurking, or outed. Sandy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 15:32:42 -0500 (EST) From: Fportier@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Rep : Re: Ilya Murometz Message-ID: <970305153208_-1640437831@emout17.mail.aol.com> Yes, there *are* plans available, but do they represent the version chosen by the kit manufacturers, ie. an early 1915 "kievski" type? As compared to the later "standard" "Veh" version this is different in many repects: pointed nose, engine fairings, length of tanks... It is indispensable to study photos, some of which appear in the Durkota book *the Imperial Russian Air Service*, p.32, 34, 190, 191, 192, 194, 319 profile p.432. It seems to me that the kit, though far from perfect, is not quite as bad as has been made out. To my mind it is still worth assembling, anyway it is a matter of choice between a slightly dubious model or nothing at all. A major problem concerns the absence of engine fairings in the kit. Were they a permanent feature on Kievski or were they later removed? Who can tell? Best wishes, Francois ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 13:47:25 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Albatros loz. Message-ID: <199703052147.AA11549@ednet1.orednet.org> > >Bill Shatzer wrote: > >> But, as a preliminary aside, I seem to remember once reading that >> ailerons were often covered with a single lozenge pattern on >> both sides - either top or bottom as it was available. -snips- >Pretty bold statement, Bill! So if the ailerons were covered using this >technique, you'd have either undersurface fabric on the aileron upper >surface, upper surface fabric on the aileron lower surface, or maybe one >of each? That WOULD look interesting. . . Pretty bold, indeed, and probably inaccurate, at least so far as the word "often" was used. An evening spent with my Albatros photos (ah, I really should get a life!) failed to disclose a single indisputable example of this alleged practice. Yet, for some reason, many, many of my Albatros photos don't seem to show ailerons well - either they are not in the photo at all or the top wing surface is "washed out" and the lozenge pattern which is clear on the lower wing is almost indistinguishable on the top wing. >I can't recall seeing photos of aircraft where this seemed apparent - >and I think it would stick out like a dog's you-know-whats. Maybe >upper-surface fabric was most often used. Anyone else have any info on >this? I'm going to go through my more numerous D.VII photos and see if something turns up there. If not, perhaps I should consign this snippet to the "WWI myths and legends" bin. >And while we're on the subject of lozenge-printed fabric, here's a >question: was it up to each manufacturer to procure the fabric or was it >supplied by the Luftstreitkrafte? I've read the former but, ya' see what sort of pickle I put myself in when I repeat "things I've read." :-) Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 455 *********************