WWI Digest 451 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Pfalz update by Carlos Valdes 2) RE: Brisfit Tailplane Trim by "William B. Bacon, Jr." 3) Re: Woodgrain Finish by Alberto Rada 4) Re: Pfalz update by mbittner@juno.com 5) Re: Getting along by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 6) Woodgrain Responses by barrett@iplink.net (barrett) 7) Pfalz D.III , D.IIIa Differences by phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) 8) RE: Brisfit Tailplane Trim by NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) 9) Ilya Murometz by NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) 10) Re: Eduard Pfalz by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 11) Re: Lozenge application techniques by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 12) balloons by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 13) Re: Ilya Murometz by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 14) cottage industries by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 15) Re: Brisfit Tailplane Trim by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 16) Re: Woodgrain Responses by "huggins@onramp.net" 17) Re: Pfalz update by "huggins@onramp.net" 18) WWI Modeller Frozen in Time by "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 15:44:51 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Pfalz update Message-ID: <3319E6C3.A78@conted.gatech.edu> Guys, I went by a local hobby shop today which happened to have the new Eduard kit in stock (I didn't get it as I have one coming via mail order). The boxes were sealed, so I can't comment on the components, but I can report that, surprisingly (at least to me), the kit is that of a D.III only; I was really expecting and hoping for a D.IIIa. As I noted before, the decals are for Lenz's silbergrau machine and Berthold's red and blue bird (colors I believed I had seen applied only to a D.IIIa). Of course, Blue Max does make a more expensive kit of a D.IIIa, but an Eduard "a" would have been both more affordable and probably easier for us non-experts to build. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 15:09:27 -0600 From: "William B. Bacon, Jr." To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Brisfit Tailplane Trim Message-ID: <01BC271B.CA0D49C0@ESPRESSO.NETJAVA.NET> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC271B.CA167180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sandy, thank you for the kind words. I cannot help but feel that it = may be the opinion of some that, trim control of any type is some kind = of an automatic pilot. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!! Trim tabs or other = trim devices are mainly to relieve control pressure. Elevator trim = would be used to compensate for varying loads and to make landing = easier. Too often we equate the present day with the past. Correct me = if I am wrong. A present day aircracft can be trimmed to fly hands off = (for a short period of time). It allows the pilot to relax a bit but = still requires correction. Another question would be: What pilot in any = age would be dumb enough to fly in combat with the auto pilot engaged. = This does not include the computer controlled low level flight of A/C = like the FB111. Bill Bill Bacon wbacon@netjava.net=20 ---------- From: Sandy Adam Sent: Sunday, March 02, 1997 12:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Brisfit Tailplane Trim Aplogies to all who are now thouroughly fed up with this and I promise this is absolutely my last list post on the subject. If Rob, Eric or = Bill wish to pursue this pissing comtest, lets do it by individual post = rather than bore the rest of the list. On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Rob wrote: > one to ask why the control was in the cockpit, but that is another=20 > question). Do you really need to ask why the lever was at the pilot's hand? > If I were Bill, I'd hang in there. Nobody said tailplanes weren't=20 > adjustable--only that they were not, for the most part, adjustable in=20 Rubbish, and wrong rubbish - Bill said (cut from his previous post):- > First of all, there were NO means, at all, for trimming these =20 > aircraft in flight to maintain either course or attitude. A very few=20 This is wrong as evinced by the RAF Manual. Even if you cannot bring yourself to admit how the pilot would use it in practice, the statement = is still wrong as there WAS means of trimming in flight - by adjusting the aforesaid lever, whether you say it was used or not. I am sorry to all if you feel that acrimony has entered this debate. If = I make a mistake, I admit it quickly and as graciously as I can and I = expect other adults to do the same. That three individuals can refute the = actual rigging set-up manual for these aircraft, when they haven't even seen it (I assume) makes further discussion pointles. Bill Bacon, I see, has offered to copy infromation from the same manual( and may I thank you = for the offer Bill). Perhaps the three musketeers might wish to check out = the facts before arguing further from set positions. Anyway guys if you wish to continue this dogfight, (although you will obviously be firing from the ground as you have already been shot down but don't seem to know it) I will be delighted to do so, but only by direct individual mail to save other's patience. 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Experiment on scrap plastic first. I know >someone who painted a scratch 1/32 Alb. C.III fuselage this way and you >couldn't tell that it wasn't varnished wood. > >Bob >Sierra > I just finished an Albetros 1/48 ( of course ) and after lots of experiment and kilos of scrap plastic in the waste paper basket I ended up with the following mixed technique: as you I started i painting the fuselage very light tan, and then I dry-brushed ( let a flat brush dry for a while with the paint on and then pass it over the surface without too much pressure, you wont see it but its there ) a darker tan, and then a brown, and then a yellow or a red, depending on the wood you want to imitate, mahogany etc. and then very very lightly black, most of this comes from Scale Auto enthusiast, October 1996 issue, but then I added the following, I applied Flo-stain from Floquil this is a stain to paint balsa wood, this is really lots of thinner and the appropriate color ( rosewood, mahogany etc. ) because of the thinner you have to wait till all is absolutely dry before applying and also do it sparingly, the result was very gratifying and it also works wonderfully on propellers. That's my two cents worth SALUDOS ALBERTO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Mar 1997 18:59:23 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Pfalz update Message-ID: <19970302.180208.3838.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Sun, 2 Mar 1997 16:02:28 -0500 Carlos Valdes writes: > I went by a local hobby shop today which happened to have the > new Eduard kit in stock (I didn't get it as I have one coming > via mail order). The boxes were sealed, so I can't comment on > the components, but I can report that, surprisingly (at least to > me), the kit is that of a D.III only; I was really expecting and > hoping for a D.IIIa. As I noted before, the decals are for > Lenz's silbergrau machine and Berthold's red and blue bird > (colors I believed I had seen applied only to a D.IIIa). Of > course, Blue Max does make a more expensive kit of a D.IIIa, but > an Eduard "a" would have been both more affordable and probably > easier for us non-experts to build. I would suspect (I do *not* know for a fact) that Rosemont or somebody else will come out with a conversion. If memory serves, it's not all that different than a .III. Didn't Berthold fly both a D.III and a D.IIIa? I know that von Buttlar did, and both of his were painted red and blue. Does anyone know? I thought for sure, but it turned out that what I was thinking of was von Buttlar's machines. Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 19:30:11 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Getting along Message-ID: <199703030030.TAA08555@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 02:47 PM 3/1/97 -0500, mbittner@juno.com wrote: >Be that as it may, we need to stop "slamming" each other, >admit if we're wrong - if we actually are - and kiss and make up. >Seriously. If we're not careful, we could drive people away, and >our community is too small to lose people. > >Now come on: shake hands; hug; kiss, whatever, but let's get >back to a friendly tone, and talk about items without shooting >each other. I haven't gotten in on this debate, but I would hope that we don't have to actually start kissing one another......;-} Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 21:36:59 -0500 From: barrett@iplink.net (barrett) To: wwi Subject: Woodgrain Responses Message-ID: Thanks to the guys that chimed-in with the tips for reproducing woodgrain this weekend. Great material, and much appreciated. Kevin. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 19:46:46 -0600 From: phoward@abilene.com (Paul Howard) To: "post wwi" Subject: Pfalz D.III , D.IIIa Differences Message-ID: <19970303020122.AAA17062@default> There are several differences between the D.III and the IIIa. The easiest to see is the gun positions. The D.III had the guns buried in the fuselage, the D.IIIa had them mounted on top. The lower wing on later D.IIIas has a more rounded wing tip and the tail surfaces were broadened in chord and given a rounded leading edge. I've looked through most of my info and have been unable to find pictures of Bertold's markings on a D.III. I'm not saying that they weren't on one, just that I can only find pictures of them on a D.IIIa. Just some info so spark some interest. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 20:47:35, -0500 From: NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) To: wwi Subject: RE: Brisfit Tailplane Trim Message-ID: <199703030147.UAA04220@mime2.prodigy.com> -- [ From: Kenneth Hagerup * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- Bill wrote: > Sandy, thank you for the kind words. I cannot help but feel that it = > may be the opinion of some that, trim control of any type is some kind = > of an automatic pilot. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!! Trim tabs or other = > trim devices are mainly to relieve control pressure. Elevator trim = > would be used to compensate for varying loads and to make landing = > easier. Too often we equate the present day with the past. Correct me = > if I am wrong. A present day aircracft can be trimmed to fly hands off = > (for a short period of time). It allows the pilot to relax a bit but = > still requires correction. Another question would be: What pilot in any = > age would be dumb enough to fly in combat with the auto pilot engaged. = > This does not include the computer controlled low level flight of A/C = > like the FB111. Bill is right on this one. In the EA-6B, we had a Stability Augmentation System (stab aug) which compensated for a slight tendency for the EA-6B to be sloppy in yaw. It was engaged soon after takeoff and remained on throughout the flight. The EA-6B autopilot could be set to maintain a given altitude or a given Mach number. The airplane also had an Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS) which used a datalink between the ship and the plane, a radar beacon to ensure the ship locked up on the proper part of the plane, SPN-42 radar, and autothrottles and autopilot. If everything worked 4.0, the plane could be flown hands off all the way to touchdown at the ship. Not for the faint of heart. Ken > > Bill > > Bill Bacon > wbacon@netjava.net=20 > ---------- > From: Sandy Adam > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 1997 12:45 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Brisfit Tailplane Trim > > > Aplogies to all who are now thouroughly fed up with this and I promise this is > absolutely my last list post on the subject. If Rob, Eric or = Bill wish to > pursue this pissing comtest, lets do it by individual post = rather than bore > the rest of the list. > > > On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Rob wrote: > > one to ask why the control was in the cockpit, but that is another= 20 > > question). > > Do you really need to ask why the lever was at the pilot's hand? > > > > If I were Bill, I'd hang in there. Nobody said tailplanes weren't= 20 > > adjustable--only that they were not, for the most part, adjustable in=20 > > Rubbish, and wrong rubbish - Bill said (cut from his previous post):- > > First of all, there were NO means, at all, for trimming these =20 > > aircraft in flight to maintain either course or attitude. A very few =20 > > This is wrong as evinced by the RAF Manual. Even if you cannot bring yourself > to admit how the pilot would use it in practice, the statement = is still wrong > as there WAS means of trimming in flight - by adjusting the aforesaid lever, > whether you say it was used or not. > > I am sorry to all if you feel that acrimony has entered this debate. If = I > make a mistake, I admit it quickly and as graciously as I can and I = expect > other adults to do the same. That three individuals can refute the = actual > rigging set-up manual for these aircraft, when they haven't even seen it (I > assume) makes further discussion pointles. Bill Bacon, I see, has offered to > copy infromation from the same manual( and may I thank you = for the offer > Bill). Perhaps the three musketeers might wish to check out = the facts before > arguing further from set positions. > > Anyway guys if you wish to continue this dogfight, (although you will obviously > be firing from the ground as you have already been shot down but don't seem to > know it) I will be delighted to do so, but only by direct individual mail to > save other's patience. > > Sandy > > > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC271B.CA167180 > Content-Type: application/ms-tnef > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > > eJ8+ IjgVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy > b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAJAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIA AAAL > AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAASQAAAAAAAACBKx+ kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHd3aUBwZWFzZTEuc3Iu > dW5oLmVkdQBTTVRQAHd3aUBwZWFzZTEuc3IudW5oLmVkdQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQ AAAA > AB4AAzABAAAAFgAAAHd3aUBwZWFzZTEuc3IudW5oLmVkdQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+ DwYAAAAeAAEw > AQAAABgAAAAnd3dpQHBlYXNlMS5zci51bmguZWR1JwACAQswAQAAABsAAABTTVRQOldXSUBQ RUFT > 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=_NextPart_000_01BC271B.CA167180-- > > -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- -- Kenneth Hagerup 11419 South 43rd Ave Omaha, NE 68123 npwe28a@prodigy.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 21:28:25, -0500 From: NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) To: wwi Subject: Ilya Murometz Message-ID: <199703030228.VAC13982@mime2.prodigy.com> -- [ From: Kenneth Hagerup * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- Francois' mention of this kit has rekindled my interest in this plane. Has anyone else actually built the kit? Any particular pitfalls to be avoided or detail parts available? How about color schemes? Ken -- Kenneth Hagerup 11419 South 43rd Ave Omaha, NE 68123 npwe28a@prodigy.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:02:26 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Eduard Pfalz Message-ID: <199703030302.WAA09106@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 11:04 PM 2/28/97 -0500, Paul Howard wrote: >What retailers have the Pfalz, and how much ? Give us some details! Is it >worth the two year delay? >I've got a couple of friends who've been waiting to build the kit since it >was announced. Available answers to the previous questions my just save my >life.... I picked the kit up on Saturday at Rosemont. I think his first order was already sold out. I don't have any plan to compare it to, but I never was that much of a stickler for those things. The decals are as described earlier. As an aside, why the fascination among kit/decal makers with Berthold's winged sword?? Kit is molded in gray plastic;2 sections of PE parts or 3 sections of plastic. I'm certain that someone with more info than me will supplement this later. My impression is that it looks as clean as the DVa. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:02:27 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Lozenge application techniques Message-ID: <199703030302.WAA09115@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 03:17 PM 3/1/97 -0500, mbittner@juno.com wrote: >On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 21:50:47 -0500 bucky@postoffice.ptd.net >(Mary-Ann/Michael) writes: > >> I also have been using the paint underneath the lozenge >> technique. I've been partial to the lozenge from Americal and >> have used a dark blue underneath the decal. It comes very close >> to matching the dark blue on the decal and when there a >> tear/seam/hole etc it covers it up nicely. > >Who's blue, and what's the product code? Polly Scale, by chance? Poly-S. I went to check out the number only to discover I'm out of it. I'll try and pick some up. All I remember is that it didn't have a name like "midnight blue" or "dark blue". I think it was just plain old BLUE. However, I looked at another bottle I had of Polly-Scale BLUE and it wasn't the same. Call in the real color police. Soon as I can figure this one out, I'll post it. Trouble is, it is getting harder to find Poly-S around here. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:02:27 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: balloons Message-ID: <199703030302.WAA09117@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Brian, Copied the stuff this weekend. I'll try to get it in the mail tonight. Sorry but I lost your address. Please send again. Sorry to clog up this lidt with this. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 20:18:38 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Ilya Murometz Message-ID: >-- [ From: Kenneth Hagerup * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] -- > >Francois' mention of this kit has rekindled my interest in this plane. >Has anyone else actually built the kit? Any particular pitfalls to be >avoided or detail parts available? How about color schemes? > Some time ago, when I first got this kit, I posted a brief out of the box review of this to the list. This was probably 18 months ago. If I can find a copy of this message, I will re-post it. Basically I found problems with the outline of tail surfaces and wing panels when compared with Harry Woodman drawings in a Windsock back number. Woodman's plans are essential when building this kit. The detail parts such as engines and guns are in a word pathetic. I had heard a rumor of a resin detail set to be released. Anyone out there know more about this or even owns an example ? I'd love to hear details on this myself. There is a Russian language publication out about this a/c. I've seen a copy but balked at paying $20.00 for something that was printed on toilet paper with bad quality photo reproduction, not to get into language difficulties (and I have some sources for translations). The Smithsonian book about Igor Sikorsky is another source of information about this a/c, sorry though, it contains no color info. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 20:44:22 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: cottage industries Message-ID: >On Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:32:54 -0500 "Shelley Goodwin" > writes: > >> Glad I'm not the only tightwad (value conscious?) modeler on the >> list! To which Matt responds: >To me, it's just ridiculous. There is no reason why a model that >builds up to be a couple of inches need to cost this much. Sure, >you could argue about cottage industry and all that, but in >reality, there's no reason but greed. Why should Skybirds stuff >cost $10 to $20 more than others? If you look at the cost of a >Pegasus kit, I see no reason why the Skybirds should cost so much >more. > >And then there's JMGT 1/72nd St.Chammond's. We'll leave that for >another message. > Having a little experience with the WW I related cottage industry I have to weigh in here. I have no idea how many of any particular kit Skybirds sells, but I can appreciate his limiting his distribution to what he sells through the mail on his own, out of his own living room. I would venture a guess of 200 examples or less. Bob Norgren can probably back me up on this. OK so $35 a shot (gross income) for a single kit sounds a little steep, particularly for a 1/72 scale WW I two seater. What we don't know is how many hours of one (or more) person's labor cranked out that single kit, what parts of it were sub-contracted out to another "cottage" maker, the metal bits, the resin ? What were the costs involved ? How many hours (at no pay) were involved in making the masters from which to cast the metal and the resin ? Before anyone sees a single kit or piece of it a lot of labor has been expended. Keep in mind as well that all of this work without pay is a total crapshoot. Skybirds or Sierra might sell a couple hundred of a particular kit, but it might take 6 months or longer to see these revenues. In the mean time any subcontractor or decal supplier had to see his or her $$ in advance or on delivery of the subcontracted products. I have yet to see anyone get rich on being in the cottage industry game, with the possible exception of Verlinden or perhaps Pegasus. But then, I don't know anything about their means of production and how many individuals may be involved. Both of these concerns make a lot of kits, so they begin to have the advantages of volume production working in their favor. I hear plenty of grumbling about the prices of cottage kits. No one is going to be able to make a well crafted kit using low-tech media (i.e. resin, vacs, low pressure injected plastic, etc.) and compete with sale prices found on some major manufacturer's kits. Its just too inefficient and costly to make these short production runs. I think that the community as a whole should be grateful that there are people out there willing to take the time, energy and above all money out of their own pocket, to take the risk of making a kit or decal of an obscure subject (WWI or otherwise) and sell it on the open market. If one finds the price of the limited production kit is too high there is always the alternative of ingenuity, sheet styrene, a knife and a set of plans. Soap box mode off. Charles (formerly part of Americal/Gryphon decals) hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 19:41:34 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Brisfit Tailplane Trim Message-ID: <199703030341.AA21589@ednet1.orednet.org> Sandy Adam wrote: -snips- >> If I were Bill, I'd hang in there. Nobody said tailplanes weren't >> adjustable--only that they were not, for the most part, adjustable in > >Rubbish, and wrong rubbish - Bill said (cut from his previous post):- >> First of all, there were NO means, at all, for trimming these >> aircraft in flight to maintain either course or attitude. A very few I'm kinda sick of this as well, but that is NOT from any posting of mine and you've got me confused with someone else I fear. I'm willing to take the heat for what I write but not for what someone else writes. I've been in this WW1 research game for too long to _ever_ make dogmatic statements about much of anything. -snips- >Anyway guys if you wish to continue this dogfight, (although you will >obviously be firing from the ground as you have already been shot down >but don't seem to know it) I will be delighted to do so, but only by >direct individual mail to save other's patience. I'm really sad that it got to be a dogfight! This has, up to now a most civilized group and I wonder what went wrong on this 'un? Cheers, and I do mean, cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:01:40 -0600 From: "huggins@onramp.net" To: wwi Subject: Re: Woodgrain Responses Message-ID: >Thanks to the guys that chimed-in with the tips for reproducing woodgrain >this weekend. Great material, and much appreciated. > >Kevin. There is one other option. Go to one of the tabacco shops in a local mall and ask if they have any of the aluminum tube that some of the higher quality cigars are shipped in. If they don't, they may be able to give you the name of one of their customers who buys them by the box. Inside this tube is an appx 4 x 5 inch sheet of paper thin wood. This stuff can be cut to size and contact cement glued in place on the model. After it is in place, use your a wood stain to get the color you want. when dry, overcoat with a clear sealer, decal and finish to the extent you want. The nice thing about this stuff is that it is real wood. This is the same stuff that was included with some of the early Meikraft kits. I have used this material on several 1/72 scale kits acceptable results. The only suggestion is to be sure and put a sealer on the wood prior to the decals. If you don't, the decals will look like something left over from an all night drunk. JPH Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:16:11 -0600 From: "huggins@onramp.net" To: wwi Subject: Re: Pfalz update Message-ID: Check the Squadron Home Page for info on the Pfalz If memory serves me right, I think they are listing it for $1997, bbut a check of the page would confirm it. JPH Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 23:12:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Fernando E. Lamas, M.D." To: wwi Subject: WWI Modeller Frozen in Time Message-ID: <199703030712.XAA01152@olympus.net> After lurking for six weeks on this list, I thought that it would be polite to introduce myself. The last kit I started was a Fokker D. VIII. By Aurora. In 1966. At age 12. As I grew older, I stopped modeling as I thought it wasn't "grown up". One day I threw away all my models and I have regrettted it ever since. The models that fascinated me were the WWI models and reading about their history started me on my life-long hobby of reading history and collecting history. My study of history has gone through several phases and I have been on my classical history phase for the last six years and now collect ancient coins. (That is not as exotic as it sounds as some very good coins Roman coins cost less than some of the models you talk about.) My son is approaching model building age and I looked for, but never found, WWI models. They were everywhere when I was a kid. This Christmas, I opened one of the presents from my wife and it was.....a model..... which I recognized was a U.S. Navy Curtiss Sparrowhawk (my wife and I were both in the Navy). "You said once you regretted not having any of your old models so I got you one of the kind you used to like." Well, not exactly, but it's the thought that counts. As I said in the title of my post, I was frozen in time in regards to modeling but have learned a bit in the last six weeks. My first reaction when I opened the box was, "That's strange. The model is all grey. How come the wings aren't yellow? And RUBBER tires?!?!" I became quite nostalgic and posted the message I have pasted below to rec.models.scale. Answers came back telling me about the death of Aurora :^( but also that some of my old models survived as Glencoe and Smer. Someone mentioned this list. I subscribed and I have thoroughly enjoyed reading about a subject I have not discussed in 30 years. I am now taking a break from classical history and have read the biography of Immelmann written by his brother and am now reading Boelcke's authorized biography. Time does make a difference. When I was 12, I saw the WWI airmen as men who were larger than life. Now I see them as 25 year old boys who wrote long letters to their mothers. I will be buying several cheap Glencoes to build with my son. However, this modeling thing is drawing me back in after all these years. I suspect that I will try to learn some of these new-fangled modeling techniques and build a decent model or two for myself. I really miss my Albatros. Best regards, Fernando E. Lamas, M.D. Port Townsend, WA, USA lamas@olympus.net "F.E. Lamas" wrote: > When I was a boy in the 1960's, I, along with many boys my age, was an >avid model builder. WW I and WW II aircraft models were very popular back >then and, for some reason, I thought that the WW I aircraft were >especially beautiful. Since that time, I spent 8 years of active duty in >the Navy and have seen F-14 Tomcats launched and recovered aboard the USS >Nimitz. However, to this day, my idea of a beautiful aircraft is an >Albatros D V, a Pfalz D III or a Nieuport 17. > > One of the greatest joys of having a son is that Dad gets to relive his >boyhood. My son already loves to build things and is now reaching the age >where he will soon be old enough to build models. This Christmas, I kept >my eye out for one of the WW I aircraft models I enjoyed so much as a boy. >I did not see a single one. > > In the 1960's, the WW I veterans were still alive and were grandfathers >in their 70's. This may explain the popularity of WW I models back then. >I assume that their popularity died with Grandpa. > > Are there any WW I aircraft models still available? I do not mean >extremely complicated ones that require the skill of an experienced adult >modeller but, rather, the type that a boy can build with a little help >from Dad. > > Fernando E. Lamas > > > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 451 *********************