WWI Digest 432 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Re[2]: Cannon armed Gothas by "Valenciano . Jose" 2) Best way to subscribe to Windsock in U.S.? by Jim Wallace 3) Re: Cannon Armed Spads by Sandy Adam 4) Re: Best way to subscribe to Windsock in U.S.? by Carlos Valdes 5) Re[4]: Cannon armed Gothas by "Shelley Goodwin" 6) Saturday, 10 February 1917, Raoenel near St Just by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 7) Sunday, 11 February 1917, Raoenel near St Just by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 8) Monday, 12 February 1917, Raoenel near St Just by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 9) Tuesday, 13 February 1917, Raoenel near St Just by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 10) Re: Blowing off steam by THENRYS@aol.com 11) Re: Blowing off steam by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 12) E. III wing by Mathoo@aol.com 13) Airfix UN-releases by Brian Nicklas 14) Re: E. III wing by "Valenciano . Jose" 15) Re: Airfix UN-releases by DavidL1217@aol.com 16) Re: E. III wing by Erik Pilawskii 17) RE: E. III wing by Shane Weier 18) White-out/scale wars by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 19) RE: E. III wing by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 20) RE: E. III wing by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 21) Re: Re[2]: Cannon armed Gothas by "Rob " 22) Re: Pegasus to the Rescue! by DavidL1217@aol.com 23) Re: Cannon Armed Spads by "Rob " ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:47:53 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: "Valenciano . Jose" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cannon armed Gothas Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Rob wrote: > What's-his-name and Thetford refers to it and the Datafile on the AEG > has extensive photos. Watch for the next Chandelle--it will have > drawings. When? Please make it soon! I check everyday. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 06:46:07 -0500 From: Jim Wallace To: wwi Subject: Best way to subscribe to Windsock in U.S.? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970213114607.1f77688e@pop.atl.mindspring.com> I'm finally biting the bullet and going to subscribe to Windsock. What is the best way to get a subscription? Direct? (If so how?) Or U.S. company such as Rosemont or Wise Owl? Thanks, Jim Wallace ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:55:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Sandy Adam To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Cannon Armed Spads Message-ID: > Mike wrote: > aiming must've been a bit problematic; the breach was a substantial > piece of sharp-edged steel that moved violently in close proximity to > the aviator's person; the weapon generally (always?) fired solid shot Au contraire, mes amis Is it really necessary to ask a Frenchman why he would wish to cruise around a French battlefield hunting boche with a phallic extension emanating from the proximity of his groin, capable of blowing them all to Kingdom Come. (Pun not really intended but what the hell!) C'est magnifique et c'est le plus mieux methode de faire la guerre possible! Alexandre l'Ecossais ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:33:10 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Best way to subscribe to Windsock in U.S.? Message-ID: <33033436.58E1@conted.gatech.edu> Jim, I subscribe through Wise Owl, it being just an easy phone call away; one year goes for around $72. I don't know what the Rosemont price is. Others subscribe directly and can tell you more about that route, but since Albatros does not accept credit cards there may be additional bank charges involved with the use of dollar checks from the States. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 08:04:26 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[4]: Cannon armed Gothas Message-ID: <9701138558.AA855849730@mx.Ricochet.net> Bill, The AEG info is in the Datafile (if not elsewhere as well). I can send copies if you are interested. Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cannon armed Gothas Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 2/12/97 8:19 PM Riordan: You wrote: >Bill, > >I posed this question because there was a specialized heavily armored anti-tank >AEG G.IV that went into limited production armed with 2 Becker cannons, one in >an armored front turret and the other presumably on the aft gun ring. I thought >perhaps the Gotha had been considered for the same role. > >Riordan Boy, that's news to me! I'm learning something new almost all the time. Where did you find this reference on the AEGs? The AEG's "tank busters" were never in operational service or used in that role, were they? Any additional details or references would be appreciated. That all being said, the idea seems like a _really_ dumb one (armored turrets or not) - but the introduction of the tanks at Cambrai did, I know, throw the German General Staff into something of a tizzy for a bit so perhaps they were not adverse to considering even crazed ideas. Cheers, Bill -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:15:08 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Saturday, 10 February 1917, Raoenel near St Just Message-ID: <3303A07C.61D@host.dmsc.net> 922. Fine day and much warmer than those of late. The new motor came to day for my Nieuport so I feel happier and may be able to go out to fly tomorrow. The mess funds have helped to hire a piano from a family in Clermont. It was brought up today and makes a very desireable additon to our living room and a very enjoyable one also. Quite a few of us are able to play in one sort of fashion or another. Wrote letters to Rivers. Major Parker and Mr. Guerquin. Had a letter from Joe Mirichu my old Legion friend, who deserted and is back in Chicago in his home again. Certainly a war seems inevitable between the United States and Germany now. All present conditions point very decidedly that way. Wrote this evening to Mrs Curry Barlow and part of a long letter to Gertrude. I am so discouraged over Gertrude and her long mysterious silence that I can scarcely write to her any more. from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:20:03 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Sunday, 11 February 1917, Raoenel near St Just Message-ID: <3303A1A3.2628@host.dmsc.net> 923. Good day. Tried to get out for a flight over the lines this afternoon but the new motor wasn't yet placed in my machine. Went into St Just for awhile before dinner. Article in today's Paris Herald about us of the Escadrille being put on service with the U.S. Torpedo boats over here in case of war. We would be Hydroplane pilots it says. It is simply disgusting to us all and seems to have been instigated by Dr Gros in an interview with a Herald reporter. Have written him a good strong letter and will send it off to morrow after looking it over well first. The American fellows at present in the French aviation schools seem to have very poor powers of appreciation to the French government for all it is doing for them. Most all of them seem to have expressed their desire to go back to the U.S. at the first sign of war to get easy jobs there in the aerial service. from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:26:06 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Monday, 12 February 1917, Raoenel near St Just Message-ID: <3303A30E.29D0@host.dmsc.net> 924. Snowy cloudy day. None of us made a flight over the lines. Motor was installed in my machine to day so tested the machine gun and regulated the sights in the afternoon after which I made a short flight over the field to try out the motor. Letters came from Rod who is still down at El Paso, Texas with his regiment, Mr Hoffman and Charlie Rowe. Finished a letter to beloved Gertrude which I began to write two days ago. Mails to and from the United States have been mighty irregular and uncertain lately. They have been held up a good deal on account of the German submarine blockage and I doubt not but that many U.S. Mail bags lie on the bottom of the sea now on account of the blamed Boche U-boats. from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:36:08 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Tuesday, 13 February 1917, Raoenel near St Just Message-ID: <3303A568.42AB@host.dmsc.net> 925. Fair to day. Escadrille was on the alert all morning but we didn't go out until this afternoon when I made a two hour flight voluntarily. Wrote to Leah Weed and to dear little Mother this morning. Saw no German machines while out today but got jolly well lonely and tired while looking out for them. Flights alone over the lines are mighty lonesome trips anyway. One feels like a star must feel--alone way off in space. With nothing of interest happening the 2 hours pass very slowly indeed. I find that there is one fellow here in the Escadrille with whom I can't get along very amiably. Its Johnson and neither of us seem to be able to be in accord with the other. He possesses sort of an arrogant spirit and is decidedly lazy. from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet ************************************************** Tuesday, Feb. 13, 1917 Made a flight over the French lines between Roye and Ribecourt keeping up a steady circuit between the two along the lines from 1400 to 3700 meters. Saw a few French machines but no German ones anywhere. Was warm enough but got terribly bored and lonely. Saw a Caudron Bi-Motor bombarded quite a bit over Tilloy. Was interested in taking a good close look at my old friends the villages of Vignemont, Marquiglese and Elincourt where I was last year during the late winter and spring with the legion. Trenches all along the lines show many marks of bursting shells in the snow around them. Time: 2 hours Height 3700 meters Total time over lines to date: 7 hours 10 minutes from the Flight Log of E.C.C. Genet, N-124 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:19:36 -0500 (EST) From: THENRYS@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Blowing off steam Message-ID: <970213151934_305749474@emout18.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-02-12 21:14:59 EST, sdw@qld.mim.com.au (Shane Weier) wrote : << Only THREE aircraft entered !!! One 1/48 Fokker D.VII (mine), one 1/48 F4U, one 1/72 Seahawk What the hell is the world coming to.To each his own, and good luck to them but if I *never* see another sci-fi movie critter, sci-fi space ship or Gundam robot again I'll be happy. Back to the solitary pursuit of life, liberty and proper aeroplanes Shane >> Not to sound elitist, but I'm awful glad to hear someone else who feels this way. I drive 75 miles to attend club meetings in lieu of the two local clubs partly to avoid seeing the endless chains of vinyl cartoon characters, fake space ships from some movie no one has seen, and folks getting their jollies by painting scantilly clad or nude females. As Shane said, to each their own, but I just don't understand the motivation. Todd Henry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:58:38 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Blowing off steam Message-ID: <199702132058.AA01263@ednet1.orednet.org> Todd Henry wrote: > >Not to sound elitist, but I'm awful glad to hear someone else who feels this >way. I drive 75 miles to attend club meetings in lieu of the two local clubs >partly to avoid seeing the endless chains of vinyl cartoon characters, fake >space ships from some movie no one has seen, and folks getting their jollies >by painting scantilly clad or nude females. As Shane said, to each their >own, but I just don't understand the motivation. Well, I can certainly understand the attraction of painting scantily clad or nude females. Oh, you meant the little teeny metal kind of nude females? Never mind. :-) Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:43:14 -0500 (EST) From: Mathoo@aol.com To: wwi Subject: E. III wing Message-ID: <970213164258_-1542286575@emout08.mail.aol.com> List, I am going to start painting my Eduard "nekkid" E.III soon and I would like to know what the wing was made of. My sources (Squadron only) don't really show the construction of the wing. Was it wood or was it of tube like the rest of the plane? BTW, any painting hints for this little beastie would be appreciated. I think I am going to paint the fuel tank a light grey, the cockpit floor a suitable wood colour, and the seat bulkhead wood as well. Stop me if I am wrong here! The tube construction is gonna be just a good steel colour. This kit has been FAR easier to build than I thought and I am looking forward to seeing what the Camel and D. VII are going to look like. I am even thinking of covering one half of the plane in silk span and painting it up with decals from the Eduard E. III injection kit. How's that for mad? Thanks for any hints and tips. Matthew Burchette Mathoo@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 16:52:50 EST From: Brian Nicklas To: Subject: Airfix UN-releases Message-ID: <199702132216.RAA19031@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Another comfort: It's not like Airfix has never re-released these kits in the past! And if the 1/72 scale folks on this list have not built or bought their fill of these Airfix delights - shame! Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:36:33 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: "Valenciano . Jose" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: E. III wing Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Feb 1997 Mathoo@aol.com wrote: > List, > I am going to start painting my Eduard "nekkid" E.III soon and I would like > to know what the wing was made of. ...... Hi Mathew, I've got a photo of a "nekkid" E.III (Fokker) that I downloaded from somewhere on the net. I'll send it to you as an attached file either tomorrow or on Monday. OK? ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:47:11 -0500 (EST) From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Airfix UN-releases Message-ID: <970213204710_-1039814571@emout05.mail.aol.com> Better run and grab the DH4 and the Pup. The best of Airfix' WWI offerings ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:20:24 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: E. III wing Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Valenciano . Jose wrote: > > List, > > I am going to start painting my Eduard "nekkid" E.III soon and I would like > > to know what the wing was made of. ...... > > Hi Mathew, I've got a photo of a "nekkid" E.III (Fokker) that I downloaded > from somewhere on the net. I'll send it to you as an attached file either > tomorrow or on Monday. OK? > And, if that doesn't quite do it, I took some pictures of The San Diego Air Museum's E.III while it was in construction. I took a pic of the wing, sitting on a rack, clearly exposed from close up. Should do the trick. Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "If you're not living Life on the edge, you're taking up too much room!" .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:44:44 +1100 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: E. III wing Message-ID: <01BC1A74.DB35DCC0@pc087b.mim.com.au> Matt writes: >I think I am going to paint the fuel tank a light grey, the >cockpit floor a suitable wood colour, and the seat bulkhead wood as well. I suspect (though I don't have any references with me to check) that the "seat bulkhead" is in fact made of fabric. It's not load bearing, wood would be heavier for no purpose, and the only function would be to prevent buffeting of the rear fuselage fabric, so I'd be inclined to think it's not wood. If fabric, it would be natural linen (probably un-doped, since it's more likely to be a removable screen to give access for repairs and wouldn't need to be shrunk) rather than coloured in any way. >Stop me if I am wrong here! The tube construction is gonna be just a good >steel colour. This may be so, but again I have a suspicion that the tubing would be painted. If so, my memory suggests they are very dark in colour, perhaps black (japanned??) Anyone got their Datafile, WW1 Aero etc handy?? Regards Shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 22:55:49 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: White-out/scale wars Message-ID: <199702140355.WAA19842@pease1.sr.unh.edu> I forget who suggested this trick, but I just used some white-out(typewriter correcting fluid) on the 1/72 Dr.1 ZI'm working on. It dried quickly and sanded easily....just as advertised. Thanks for the tip...now I've got a use for all that white-out my secretary saus she doesn't need anymore now that she has a computer. As for the scale debates, I switch back and forth. My skills and eyes won't let me do as much w/1/72 models, but their cost and interesting decal availability keep me coming. The 1/48 I can try to rig and put some small cockpit detail into. When I get tired of rigging, it's back to the teeny scale...... Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:29:26 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: RE: E. III wing Message-ID: <199702140429.AA00947@ednet1.orednet.org> Shane writes: > >Matt writes: > >>I think I am going to paint the fuel tank a light grey, the >>cockpit floor a suitable wood colour, and the seat bulkhead wood as well. > >I suspect (though I don't have any references with me to check) that the >"seat bulkhead" is in fact made of fabric. It's not load bearing, wood >would be heavier for no purpose, and the only function would be to prevent >buffeting of the rear fuselage fabric, so I'd be inclined to think it's not >wood. If fabric, it would be natural linen (probably un-doped, since it's >more likely to be a removable screen to give access for repairs and >wouldn't need to be shrunk) rather than coloured in any way. There are a couple photos of uncovered eindeckers in the squadron/ signal "In Action" book and they seem to support your supposition that the bulkhead was fabric, not wood. There is also a photo of an uncovered wing but it's not really clear enough to say for certain what it is constructed out of. For what it is worth, the text says "Fokker constructed all but the wings of the M.5 prototype from wire-braced steel tubing with welded joints." leaving the wings, by implication, wood. There's no mention that the construction technique changed between the prototype M.5 and the subsequent E.I, E.II, and E.III production models but ....?? > >>Stop me if I am wrong here! The tube construction is gonna be just a good >>steel colour. > >This may be so, but again I have a suspicion that the tubing would be >painted. If so, my memory suggests they are very dark in colour, perhaps >black (japanned??) The uncovered fuselage photos seem to show a color much lighter than black - perhaps light grey or grey/green?? Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:44:58 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: RE: E. III wing Message-ID: >Matt writes: > >>I think I am going to paint the fuel tank a light grey, the >>cockpit floor a suitable wood colour, and the seat bulkhead wood as well. > >I suspect (though I don't have any references with me to check) that the >"seat bulkhead" is in fact made of fabric. It's not load bearing, wood >would be heavier for no purpose, and the only function would be to prevent >buffeting of the rear fuselage fabric, so I'd be inclined to think it's not >wood. If fabric, it would be natural linen (probably un-doped, since it's >more likely to be a removable screen to give access for repairs and >wouldn't need to be shrunk) rather than coloured in any way. > >>Stop me if I am wrong here! The tube construction is gonna be just a good >>steel colour. > >This may be so, but again I have a suspicion that the tubing would be >painted. If so, my memory suggests they are very dark in colour, perhaps >black (japanned??) > >Anyone got their Datafile, WW1 Aero etc handy?? > The World War One Aero issue coming in April promises to have an article on Fokker E-III with notes about colors and markings. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 22:36:31 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cannon armed Gothas Message-ID: <199702140542.AAA03445@cliff.cris.com> I wrote > >Watch for the next Chandelle--it will have > > drawings. Joey wrote > When? Please make it soon! I check everyday. Soon. That's all I can say. This damn making a living gets in the way so. Has anyone else noticed this? Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 00:43:04 -0500 (EST) From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Pegasus to the Rescue! Message-ID: <970214004303_-1776627591@emout03.mail.aol.com> My Czechmasters BE2e was stalled on the workbench whilst I tried to figure out how to do the RFC Serial numbers. Now Pegasus has come out with a sheet of 0-9 and ABC's in styles to handle roughly 80% of the RFC aircraft! This was reviewed in Windsock. I called Chris and ordered directly from Old Blighty. Now, if he could do the same for German serials.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 22:48:03 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re: Cannon Armed Spads Message-ID: <199702140552.AAA07812@cliff.cris.com> Bill wrote: > I can't help but wonder what that Spad XII did when the cannon was fired. > Having fire a 37 mm Anti-tank gun, in anger and otherwise, I seem to > remember the recoil was substantial. Old Newton's laws still apply eve > though I think our Congress might try to repeal them with some of their > dumb decisions. The Spad could not of had a recoil system. Hell, it would > have splattered the pilot all over France. The only other way would be to > have the A/c absorb it. Instant loss of considerable if not all air apeed. > Sort of like running into a brick wall. Well, it did have a recoil system--more or less like a French 75 in principle--with a longish recoil stroke (compared to a Vickers, anyway). Also, the charge was a lot smaller than your AT-gun, more like the 37-mm Oldsmobile used in P39s and PT boats. Afterall, a .45 and a .50-cal machine gun have roughly the same caliber--the powder makes the difference. These heavy guns were not unique to the SPAD. Both 37- and 47-mm single-shot naval guns were carried on Voisins. The 1- and 1.5-pounder (~37-mm) Vickers pom-pom autocannon were carried on FE2s for nightfighting and night train busting. 37-mm Coventry Ordnance Works COW guns flew on an up-angled mount on a DH4 (and on several 1920s fighter prototypes). This was, I believe, a fairly high-velocity weapon. Italian flying boats commonly carried 25-mm Revelli cannon. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 432 *********************