WWI Digest 425 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Sopwith Pup by Pedro Soares 2) Re: Subscription Check by THENRYS@aol.com 3) Re: Morane Saulnier badge by THENRYS@aol.com 4) Re: Morane Saulnier badge by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 5) Re: Morane Saulnier badge by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 6) Re: Subscription Check by relay.fast.net@fast.net 7) Re[6]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. by "Shelley Goodwin" 8) Re[4]: Chronicle Of The First World War, Volume II: 1917 by "Shelley Goodwin" 9) Smer D.III whittling by "Shelley Goodwin" 10) Re: Re[4]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. by Erik Pilawskii 11) Loz finish on D.V's (was Vzfw Anton Banhofer's etc...) by Shane Weier 12) RE: Re[4]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. by Shane Weier 13) Re: Morane Saulnier badge by "Valenciano . Jose" 14) RE: Re[4]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. by Erik Pilawskii 15) Re: Flat finish by Jim Wallace 16) Re: Subscription Check by Alberto Rada 17) Re: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. by Carlos Valdes 18) Re[6]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. by "Shelley Goodwin" 19) Re: Home Brewed Etchings by DavidL1217@aol.com 20) OTF back issues by Peter Kilduff 21) OTF binders by Peter Kilduff 22) Re: Sopwith Pup by mbittner@juno.com 23) Re:making water by aero@baynet.net (Jim Lyzun) 24) FW: Forwarded Message - Fokker Dr.I 152/17 by Shane Weier 25) Re:making water by "Rob " 26) Re: Morane Saulnier badge by "Rob " 27) Re: FW: Forwarded Message - Fokker Dr.I 152/17 by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 14:45:46 +0000 From: Pedro Soares To: wwi Subject: Sopwith Pup Message-ID: <32F9EE99.11D5@anaep.pt> Hi Matt This is just to say, I've heard from my daughter (I'm at office now) that your letter has arrived. Can't wait to lay my hands on the plans and get on with it (the kit has been left untouched for 5 days now). I'll get back in touch soon with an update on the assembly progress. I'm still afraid of the struts, though, but I guess I'll go for the one at a time approach suggested by Mike Muth and I'm really considereing using wood. I found some flat wood matchsticks that look just right for the job once cut and shaped. Thanks again pedro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:51:53 -0500 (EST) From: THENRYS@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Subscription Check Message-ID: <970206104329_-1509570758@emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-02-06 09:13:47 EST, KILDUFF@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU (Peter Kilduff) wrote: << FYI, a snag at the printer has put the Winter OTF off schedule. Situation has been resolved (technical problem for them, not us) and production has resumed. We send very finite instructions to the printer, as high-quality is a MUST for OTF -- and sometimes our picky-picky specs slow down the process. I know that's a pain -- but much less of one than the situation we had a few years ago when another printer goofed omn the FRONT cover and had to do the job all over again (after letters from early recipients, who wondered whether we had lost our collective minds). >> Peter : Would it be possible for me to purchase a back issue of OTF ? I have never seen one and am not familiar wth your publication, but I think I might be interested in it. I would like to learn more, and would be interested in purchasing a back issue to peruse and perhaps, subscribe. Thanks in advance, Todd Henry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:46:07 -0500 (EST) From: THENRYS@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane Saulnier badge Message-ID: <970206101914_582520485@emout18.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-02-05 18:59:48 EST, mbittner@juno.com wrote: << I think we all should do this, regardless of kit, and regardless of scale. I know when I finish with my Revell Nie.28, I will post exactly what I did to "correct" and build the model. Others? Let's hear your experience with whatever kit you're working on. That way Al can start a new builder's page - or add to the one he already has. And if you can, take pictures, either in progress, or at the least, completed. Thoughts? >> I agree, particularly as I am getting back into WWI modelling, and many of the tricks that are second nature to frequent stringbag builders are foreign at best to builders of simple cantilever monoplane builders like me. I will attempt to contribute my experiences as well as I build the Sierra Scale Models Hansa Brandenburg W.18. At this point in time, I've got the fuselage halves and the lower wing separated and shaped, and I've begun to build the cockpit. I used the kit floor and rear bulkhead, along with some evergreen strip to simulate sidewall framing. The real bulkhead did not fit too well against the fuselage in the top corners, so I simply filled the gap with Kristal Kleer, and after a coat of paint you won't be able to see any difference due to the tight spaces. I've addded a throttle quadrant, compass, and rudder bar, all from scrap and evergreen stock. I also added some mounts to raise the pilots seat. Next on the agenda are rudder pedals and a control stick, as well as the instrument panel (I better enjoy this scale while my eyes are still 'relatively' young and functional). The cockpit is as yet unpainted, awaiting the proper amount of detail to be added before spraying a light plywood color (advice to the contrary is welcomed). More updates to come. Todd Henry P.S. My tentative plan for displaying this craft is on some Liquitex gel 'water' moored to a buoy or quay. Does anyone out there have any suggestions or advice on how this or similar aircraft were moored ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:12:37 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane Saulnier badge Message-ID: Todd Henry writes: > >I will attempt to contribute my experiences as well as I build the Sierra >Scale Models Hansa Brandenburg W.18. At this point in time, I've got the >fuselage halves and the lower wing separated and shaped, and I've begun to >build the cockpit. I used the kit floor and rear bulkhead, along with some <> > >P.S. My tentative plan for displaying this craft is on some Liquitex gel >'water' moored to a buoy or quay. Does anyone out there have any suggestions >or advice on how this or similar aircraft were moored ? Most photos you see of WW I float planes don't show them "moored" to anything. As soon as they were done flying the first job was to get them out of the water on their beaching gear, either using a crane or bringing them up on a beaching ramp. These made pretty good airplanes, but they were lousy boats. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:24:47 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane Saulnier badge Message-ID: <199702061724.AA09816@ednet1.orednet.org> Todd Henry wrote: -snips- > >P.S. My tentative plan for displaying this craft is on some Liquitex gel >'water' moored to a buoy or quay. Does anyone out there have any suggestions >or advice on how this or similar aircraft were moored ? While I wouldn't claim that German seaplanes were _never_ moored, the photos seem to suggest that this wouldn't have been the usual practice - rather the aircraft were stored on dry land when not flying and put into and removed from the water via ramps and wheeled dollies. (I think I recall a photo or two showing cranes or davits being used as well, but I might be mistaken on that.) Actually, after a little thought, the practical difficulties of actually mooring these kinds of aircraft to a bouy seem formidable enough to make this type of arrangement unlikely. I mean, would you want to croutch on the front of a wet float trying to pick up a bouy mooring line with that airscrew spinning only a couple of feet away? And, how would you hand crank the propellor of a moored aircraft to get the engine started? I can think of a couple of "work arounds" for these problems but they are all fairly cumbersome. Maybe there is something I'm over- looking but I'd think mooring would be an emergency situation only, if that. Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 12:49:25 -0500 (EST) From: relay.fast.net@fast.net To: wwi Subject: Re: Subscription Check Message-ID: <199702061749.MAA08804@post1.fast.net> On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, THENRYS@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 97-02-06 09:13:47 EST, KILDUFF@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU (Peter >Kilduff) wrote: > ><< FYI, a snag at the printer has put the Winter OTF off schedule. Situation > has been resolved (technical problem for them, not us) and production has > resumed. We send very finite instructions to the printer, as high-quality > is a MUST for OTF -- and sometimes our picky-picky specs slow down the > process. I know that's a pain -- but much less of one than the situation > we had a few years ago when another printer goofed omn the FRONT cover > and had to do the job all over again (after letters from early recipients, > who wondered whether we had lost our collective minds). >> > Peter is it still possible to get in on the purchase for the binders? I was intending to do so, but you notice dropped by the wayside during the holidays/ You might mention this to the group if they're still available as well as the fact that Yearly sets can be purchase of OTF. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 10:43:21 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[6]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. Message-ID: <9701068552.AA855254986@mx.Ricochet.net> Would Humbrol WWI green be a fair approximation of German camo green? Y'see, I've this Revell D.III that I'd like to do something unusual with... Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[4]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 2/6/97 1:06 AM Riordan inquires - > >How about the Pascha(?) Albatrii in Palestine? Wasn't there an red-brown or >fieldgrau over the flying surfaces or some such?. All the photos I've ever seen of the Pascha units (<> that there's a whole lot of them around!) indicate that they looked like straight-from-the-factory German Albatrii, i.e. natural wood fuselage, green and brown camo flying surfaces, blue undersides, eiserne kreuze, etc. I would guess this was because the Pascha units were regular German Jastas (301, 302, 303, 304, & 305) with all German pilots serving under German command, that were detailed to Palestine. The red- brown and/or feldgrau color you mention (Rimmel says probably red-brown, others say a greenish gray. I tend to agree with Rimmel) I've only seen on photos of Albatrii and other aircraft that were actually sold to the Turks and saw service in the Ottoman flying squadrons (referred to as Fliegerabteilung or Tayyare Boluk, as opposed to Jastas) under Turkish command, albeit staffed mostly with German volunteer pilots, at least in the fighter squadrons. Geographically, the Pascha units pretty much handled Palestine, while the Turks sent their own aircraft off to Mesopotamia, the Caucasus, and the Dardanelles. >So when did the D.V go from green/mauve to lozenge? Sorry, that sounds like more of a Western front question. I'll have to transfer you to another department.... HTH, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 10:29:56 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[4]: Chronicle Of The First World War, Volume II: 1917 Message-ID: <9701068552.AA855254976@mx.Ricochet.net> Does it cover Russian Civil War & post-war Freikorps aerial ops/campaigns? Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Re[2]: Chronicle Of The First World War, Volume II: 1917 Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 2/6/97 5:12 AM Very fine. I recommend it. PK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 10:51:52 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Smer D.III whittling Message-ID: <9701068552.AA855254995@mx.Ricochet.net> Is it feasable to plane off the thick sides and bottom of this kit to make it more D.III-ish? I know I should just wait for the Eduard kit, but I'm rather fond of harebrained modifications. Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:26:21 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re[4]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Bill Shatzer wrote: > > Greg Van W. posits a color of "Pale Brunswick green and white" > for one of the upper surface colors for some DIIIs - which wouldn't > be far off from feldgrau. Certainly the photographs seem to support > his conclusion that there is a third upper surface color there on > some Albatri DIIs. The actual color is probably anybody's best guess, > but feldgrau is probably in the general ballpark. But, I'm guessing > on this 'un and even Greg van W. admits he is only working from British > "downed aircraft" reports. > On the specific matter of Albatros D.III fighters, I have been doing a bit of research of late on three-color schemes. I feel quite positive beyond any doubt that there were indeed at least *two* distinct three-color camo applications, and perhaps a third. The difference in scheme(s) seems to conform strongly to the age of the variant-- i.e., one scheme may appear only on late D.IIIs, another on early-mid series. I, personally, have interpreted the colors as such: *Early-Mid D.III (only): Grey-Green/Red-Brown/Olive. I believe that the color referred to by Greg v.W. as "Brunswick Green" is in fact this grey-green color, similar to that found on the metal panels of many Albatri (ex: D.Va 'Stropp' from NASM). The red-brown may be as "brickish" as depicted in the Windsock Datafiles, but I, myself, opt for a slightly lighter, browner, shade. *Late D.IIIs (only): Lilac/Olive/Grey-Green *Early (?)(only?): Grey-Green/Red-Brown/Natural Linen(?). This is the mystery color. I can find no good photos of this application, only 'hints and bits'. Some photos depicting this 'mystery' color *may* show a two-color scheme. This, I believe, is what Greg v.W. is referring to in Bill's citation above. White, however, I do not accept; why on earth employ a white dope in this role? Makes no sense to me at all; OTOH, natural linen w/clear dope is relatively obvious. Part of the mystery, though, is that all of the relevant photos are "suspicious"-- i.e. the "color" could possibly be explained by a light reflection, or personal markings, or something else.... Ah, the mysteries of the Great War!... > "The nice thing about doing WW1 aircraft is that the color police can > only give ya' a warning!" > Dang it, it's the bleedin' fact that they pull me over that get's my ire!... :^) Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "If you're not living Life on the edge, you're taking up too much room!" .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:45:41 +1100 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: Loz finish on D.V's (was Vzfw Anton Banhofer's etc...) Message-ID: <01BC14D3.4D1C8160@pc087b.mim.com.au> Bill, You answer Riordans question: >>So when did the D.V go from green/mauve to lozenge? >I _think_ most of the D.Vs after 1199/17 should be lozenge. >Certainly by 4403/17, they should be lozenge exclusively. I've >not seen any information as to exactly where the "break point" >was, if, indeed, there was in fact a break point. I have no quarrel with the general thrust of your answer but I bet this is one where we can endlessly find exceptions. Here's one. The Australian War Memorials Albatros (D.5390/17) is better documented than most. It appears in a photograph taken immediately after manufacture and before Jasta delivery (IWM Q226826) In that photograph it appears to have lozenge fabric on the wings BUT the undersurface of the lower wing is a light painted finish, presumably blue. The tail surfaces are indistinguishable but assumed to be loz. By the time it was captured the aircraft had a striped tailplane, the lower main plane was now entirely covered with 5 colour loz and the starboard aileron was covered with a darker version of the 5 colour loz. This is visible on the official photograph (AWM E1686) So this aircraft at least, is an exception. So where does this leave us? As ever, check your references the choose the most likely answer. Full speed ahead and damn the colour police !! Shane PS. The a/c has undergone at least two restorations (though restoration is not the way one should describe the first, pre WW2 effort) and the current finish is not representative of its original finish. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:59:27 +1100 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Re[4]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. Message-ID: <01BC14D5.39C172E0@pc087b.mim.com.au> Erik, On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Bill Shatzer wrote: > > Greg Van W. posits a color of "Pale Brunswick green and white" > for one of the upper surface colors for some DIIIs - which wouldn't > be far off from feldgrau And you observe (in part) >*Early (?)(only?): Grey-Green/Red-Brown/Natural Linen(?). This is the >mystery color. I can find no good photos of this application, only 'hints >and bits'. Some photos depicting this 'mystery' color *may* show a >two-color scheme. This, I believe, is what Greg v.W. is referring to in >Bill's citation above. White, however, I do not accept; why on earth >employ a white dope in this role? Makes no sense to me at all; OTOH, >natural linen w/clear dope is relatively obvious. Part of the mystery, >though, is that all of the relevant photos are "suspicious"-- i.e. the >"color" could possibly be explained by a light reflection, or personal >markings, or something else.... Ah, the mysteries of the Great War!... I think that this is probably a misinterpretation of the wording on a captured aircraft report. Go back to the source document and you will probably find the pale green colour described as Brunswick Green and White - meaning a paler colour you'd get by mixing the two, not patches of each. Brunswick Green is/was a uniform colour in the British forces and would have been a familiar starting point to describe an otherwise unfamiliar shade. (Wild guess #1: Have a look at the description used in the Albatros special on JG1 which shows a 3 colour paint job. I *think* that it describes the colours in this way) >> "The nice thing about doing WW1 aircraft is that the color police can >> only give ya' a warning!" >> > Dang it, it's the bleedin' fact that they pull me over that get's my >ire!... :^) Ah, but it's *such* fun to tell em "Prove it, or eff off" then watch them quiver !! Shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 07:10:13 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: "Valenciano . Jose" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Morane Saulnier badge Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 1997 THENRYS@aol.com wrote: > I will attempt to contribute my experiences as well as I build the Sierra > Scale Models Hansa Brandenburg W.18. At this point in time, I've got the > fuselage halves and the lower wing separated and shaped, and I've begun to > build the cockpit. Well done! Keep us informed with another chapter. BTW, is the kit you're builing in what scale? ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:45:33 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Re[4]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Shane Weier wrote: > > I think that this is probably a misinterpretation of the wording on a > captured aircraft report. Go back to the source document and you will > probably find the pale green colour described as Brunswick Green and White > - meaning a paler colour you'd get by mixing the two, not patches of each. > Brunswick Green is/was a uniform colour in the British forces and would > have been a familiar starting point to describe an otherwise unfamiliar > shade. > Ahhhhhhhh.... Makes perfect sense: The "Green" shade was an approximation of 'Brunswick' and 'white' combined. So! I think this just convinces me all the more that we're talking about this grey-green I'm postulating. Hmmm.... Thanks for the explanation. > (Wild guess #1: Have a look at the description used in the Albatros > special on JG1 which shows a 3 colour paint job. I *think* that it > describes the colours in this way) > Yes, it does. The only 3-color in Fabric #1-- Richthofen is done by Rimmel in Brick-red/Lt.Green 'Brunswick'/Olive. No problem there, but there are other odd 2- and 3-color examples that this scheme would not explain, and in fact Greg v.W. notes this later in that same text. > Ah, but it's *such* fun to tell em "Prove it, or eff off" then watch them > quiver !! > Dang! You must be more "formidable" than I-- they just wave their "badges", throw out their bellies, and get that "What's all this, then!?" look on their faces to me!.... "E're-- I says it is, Laddie. You're ob'viowsly some sort 'o troublemaker, are ya' then?...." Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "If you're not living Life on the edge, you're taking up too much room!" .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 19:02:53 -0500 From: Jim Wallace To: wwi Subject: Re: Flat finish Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970207000253.189ff5be@pop.atl.mindspring.com> Regarding the Future/Finshes discussion: At the last model show I got a tip for flat finishes. Use white Elmer's glue 50/50 with water. One modeler mentioned it, and others chimed in saying it works great, clear and very flat. My $.02. Jim Wallace ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:08:02 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Subscription Check Message-ID: <199702070008.UAA13862@fw.true.net> At 11:55 PM 05-02-97 -0500, you wrote: >A few of my subscriptions may be running a bit late. Has anyone yet >received any of the following: > >Windsock - Jan/Feb 1997 > >Datafile - HB W12 > >Over the Front - Winter 1996 > > > I have also not received any of them, I was told by O the F that their Winter issue is now on the mail, also someone from England had some comments on W I January issue, but you know that this takes some time to get to this continent, I think this goes by ship via Madagascar, and then Cabo Buena Esperanza , down the Nile through the Panama Canal and finally home. By the way I also heard that they are stretching the Historic revue to Corea SALUDOS ALBERTO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 19:30:04 -0500 From: Carlos Valdes To: wwi Subject: Re: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. Message-ID: <32FA778C.4D75@conted.gatech.edu> Erik, Albatros colors is one of those topics that greatly interest me but which I've yet had a chance to really get to work on. Could I ask what sources you've been using in your research? Also, have you seen the 1995 WWI Aero article by Dan Abbot on D.II colors? In it he includes some profiles/plates with a couple of 3-color schemes. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 97 17:39:58 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[6]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. Message-ID: <9701068552.AA855279510@mx.Ricochet.net> Perhaps this is a matter for Chandelle to address... ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[4]: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D. Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 2/6/97 11:27 AM On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Bill Shatzer wrote: > > Greg Van W. posits a color of "Pale Brunswick green and white" > for one of the upper surface colors for some DIIIs - which wouldn't > be far off from feldgrau. Certainly the photographs seem to support > his conclusion that there is a third upper surface color there on > some Albatri DIIs. The actual color is probably anybody's best guess, > but feldgrau is probably in the general ballpark. But, I'm guessing > on this 'un and even Greg van W. admits he is only working from British > "downed aircraft" reports. > On the specific matter of Albatros D.III fighters, I have been doing a bit of research of late on three-color schemes. I feel quite positive beyond any doubt that there were indeed at least *two* distinct three-color camo applications, and perhaps a third. The difference in scheme(s) seems to conform strongly to the age of the variant-- i.e., one scheme may appear only on late D.IIIs, another on early-mid series. I, personally, have interpreted the colors as such: *Early-Mid D.III (only): Grey-Green/Red-Brown/Olive. I believe that the color referred to by Greg v.W. as "Brunswick Green" is in fact this grey-green color, similar to that found on the metal panels of many Albatri (ex: D.Va 'Stropp' from NASM). The red-brown may be as "brickish" as depicted in the Windsock Datafiles, but I, myself, opt for a slightly lighter, browner, shade. *Late D.IIIs (only): Lilac/Olive/Grey-Green *Early (?)(only?): Grey-Green/Red-Brown/Natural Linen(?). This is the mystery color. I can find no good photos of this application, only 'hints and bits'. Some photos depicting this 'mystery' color *may* show a two-color scheme. This, I believe, is what Greg v.W. is referring to in Bill's citation above. White, however, I do not accept; why on earth employ a white dope in this role? Makes no sense to me at all; OTOH, natural linen w/clear dope is relatively obvious. Part of the mystery, though, is that all of the relevant photos are "suspicious"-- i.e. the "color" could possibly be explained by a light reflection, or personal markings, or something else.... Ah, the mysteries of the Great War!... > "The nice thing about doing WW1 aircraft is that the color police can > only give ya' a warning!" > Dang it, it's the bleedin' fact that they pull me over that get's my ire!... :^) Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "If you're not living Life on the edge, you're taking up too much room!" ............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:55:03 -0500 (EST) From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Home Brewed Etchings Message-ID: <970206204302_1213428329@emout14.mail.aol.com> Has any one on this list made their own etched brass pieces? The idea from Theodoric of York, Medievil Modeler for the sheet of control horns was intriguing. May give it a try. Are there any etching kits out there or go "how to" articles? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:28:55 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Kilduff To: wwi Subject: OTF back issues Message-ID: <970206212855.2031b426@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> In response to: >Would it be possible for me to purchase a back issue of OTF ? I have never >seen one and am not familiar wth your publication, but I think I might be >interested in it. I would like to learn more, and would be interested in >purchasing a back issue to peruse and perhaps, subscribe. > >Thanks in advance, > >Todd Henry The League of World War I Aviation Historians is not able to furnish single sample copies of OVER THE FRONT. (We're all hobbyists, doing this in our spare time, gratis.) I've not seen a complaint on this List about OTF, so I take that as the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. Maybe someone will loan you a copy. Then, again, maybe not because one issue has the same allure as peanuts: one is never enough. As noted previously, back issue sets (4 issues per set) are $42 per volume. Currently available are: Vol 3 (1988), 4 (1989), 5 (1990), 6 (1991), 7 (1992), 8 (1993), 9 (1994) and 10 (1995). Contact person for back volumes is Dick Bennett: 104635.1603@COMPUSERVE.COM Thanks for your interest. Peter Kilduff publicity director ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:36:21 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Kilduff To: wwi Subject: OTF binders Message-ID: <970206213621.2031b426@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> In response to: >is it still possible to get in on the purchase for the binders? I was >intending to do so, but you notice dropped by the wayside during the >holidays. > >You might mention this to the group if they're still available as well >as the fact that Yearly sets can be purchase of OTF. > >Thanks. Mom, is that you, posting stuff on the Internet again? No, I guess that was a real question. Real answer: yes, OTF binder orders still being accepted (through March 1, actually). Due to popular request (and a lot of P.O.ed people who complained that in December they spend their money on something called Christmas See previous posting re: volumes still available. Bremskloetze weg! Peter K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 21:49:30 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Sopwith Pup Message-ID: <19970206.205156.13478.2.mbittner@juno.com> Pedro, > This is just to say, I've heard from my daughter (I'm at office > now) that your letter has arrived. Super!! I'm glad it arrived. > Can't wait to lay my hands on the plans and get on with it (the > kit has been left untouched for 5 days now). That sometimes happens to me, even when I have the plans. :-) > I'll get back in touch soon with an update on the assembly > progress. I'm still afraid of the struts, though, but I guess > I'll go for the one at a time approach suggested by Mike Muth > and I'm really considereing using wood. I found some flat wood > matchsticks that look just right for the job once cut and > shaped. Can't wait to hear how it goes. Can you get Contrail strut there? Are you interested in some? I still plan on picking up an I-3 for you, so I could throw some in with that one. I'm hoping to get to it next month, if you don't mind waiting a bit longer. Good luck, and I'm glad to help. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:34:25 -0500 From: aero@baynet.net (Jim Lyzun) To: wwi Subject: Re:making water Message-ID: <199702070334.WAA08899@focus.baynet.net> >Todd Henry > >P.S. My tentative plan for displaying this craft is on some Liquitex gel >'water' moored to a buoy or quay. Does anyone out there have any suggestions >or advice on how this or similar aircraft were moored ? > Do you or any other list members have a sure-fire method of making realistic "water"? (No artistic ability necesary). Jim Lyzun ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:50:11 +1100 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi'" Subject: FW: Forwarded Message - Fokker Dr.I 152/17 Message-ID: <01BC14FD.D7076A00@pc087b.mim.com.au> GDay all, Anyone got the Albatros Publications MvR volume or other reliable reference handy to help the correspondent whos rec.modes.scale post appears below. I'd hate to leave anyone labouring under the misapprehension that the Squadron Dr.I book is a reliable source Shane ==================================== Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 03:30:52 GMT From: cd001985@mindspring.com (Barbara Schmidt) Reply-To: cd001985@mindspring.com Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Newsgroups: rec.models.scale > I'm building a model of a Fokker triplane and want to duplicate > Richthofen's 152/17 as of March 18, 1918. On page 65 of Alex Imrie's > "The Fokker Triplane" is a photo of the plane, figure 93. It appears > that only the top decking from the cockpit aft and the sides of the > fuselage from the front of the crosses aft are over-painted red (plus > the tail, cowl and top wing ). Foward of the fuselage crosses appears > to be still in the factory finish of streaked olive over clear-doped > linen. You can also still see the serial number very clearly which > indicates that the fuselage sides havn't been painted over in red. > This dosen't seen to make sense. Why over-paint the top deck red > further forward than the fuselage sides? Might this have been a > photo taken before the entire rear of the fuselage was painted red? > Although a much less reliable book, Squadron/Signal's "Fokker Dr I in > Action" shows a much more logical rendition of 152/17 on the rear > cover (although the red does not extend far enough forward if we're to > believe photo 93 in "Imrie"). Does anyone have a better > interpretation of the evidence?? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:12:55 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re:making water Message-ID: <199702070516.AAA23326@cliff.cris.com> I tried Liquitex Gel with poor results. Then I listened to what my favorite toy soldier modeler said all along--ordinary, hardware store epoxy. I painted the bottom and left the resin clear. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:39:38 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re: Morane Saulnier badge Message-ID: <199702070543.AAA05505@cliff.cris.com> Charles writes: Most photos you see of WW I float planes don't show them "moored" to anything. As soon as they were done flying the first job was to get them out of the water on their beaching gear, either using a crane or bringing them up on a beaching ramp. These made pretty good airplanes, but they were lousy boats. I've seen photos of flying boats (not float planes) moored to small-boat-type buoys in sheltered water. Can't remember just where, but I suspect it would've been the Adriatic, probably Cattaro or Pola. As I remember, the moorings did not look like the airplanes were left moored long. Perhaps they were just "parked" while waiting for a sortie, perhaps to avoid congestion on the slip way? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:53:35 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: FW: Forwarded Message - Fokker Dr.I 152/17 Message-ID: <199702070553.AA02846@ednet1.orednet.org> When we last left our intrepid adventurers, Shane was saying: >GDay all, > >Anyone got the Albatros Publications MvR volume or other reliable reference >handy to help the correspondent whos rec.modes.scale post appears below. > >I'd hate to leave anyone labouring under the misapprehension that the >Squadron Dr.I book is a reliable source > >Shane > >==================================== > >Date: > Fri, 07 Feb 1997 03:30:52 GMT > From: > cd001985@mindspring.com (Barbara Schmidt) > Reply-To: > cd001985@mindspring.com >Organization: > MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. > Newsgroups: > rec.models.scale > > >> I'm building a model of a Fokker triplane and want to duplicate >> Richthofen's 152/17 as of March 18, 1918. On page 65 of Alex Imrie's >> "The Fokker Triplane" is a photo of the plane, figure 93. It appears >> that only the top decking from the cockpit aft and the sides of the >> fuselage from the front of the crosses aft are over-painted red (plus >> the tail, cowl and top wing ). Foward of the fuselage crosses appears >> to be still in the factory finish of streaked olive over clear-doped >> linen. You can also still see the serial number very clearly which >> indicates that the fuselage sides havn't been painted over in red. >> This dosen't seen to make sense. Why over-paint the top deck red >> further forward than the fuselage sides? Might this have been a >> photo taken before the entire rear of the fuselage was painted red? >> Although a much less reliable book, Squadron/Signal's "Fokker Dr I in >> Action" shows a much more logical rendition of 152/17 on the rear >> cover (although the red does not extend far enough forward if we're to >> believe photo 93 in "Imrie"). Does anyone have a better >> interpretation of the evidence?? Well, you are gonna find it difficult to get me into an argument with Alex Imrie. Yet, I might note that Rimmel (Windsock, Spring '88) and Nowarra ("The Fokker Dr.I and D.VII in World War I") (in addition to Don Greer in the Squadron/Signal Fokker Dr.I book) show the red on the upper fuselage decking terminating at the forward edge of the cross. I see what Imrie is talking about when he comments on the lack of apparent "streaking" on the decking (and, presumably he has the original print, so his examination of the photo can be more rigorous than mine) and the his conclusion that, therefore, the red continues forward to the cockpit is not unreasonable. Yet, I might note that with some aircraft and/or under some lighting angles, the streaking on the fuselage decking is not all that apparent, even though we are pretty sure the fuselage decking was, indeed, streaked. In Imrie's book, see, for instance, the photo of 213/17 on page 45 or Gontermann's crashed 115/17 on page 28 - the streaking on the fuselage decking is not readily apparent in either of these photos. Or,consider the photos of Bongartz's 512/17 on page 64 or Kempf's 213/17 on page 71 where the fuselage decking dope has obviously been applied by two different painters or, at least, two different techniques with the result that a portion of the decking appears streaked and a portion appears more or less solid. Obviously, some application techniques could result in a _much_ less streaky appearance than the norm. So, I'd opine this is a question still open for debate. If I was doing 152/17 myself, I think I'd opt to go with Rimmel, Nowarra, and Greer (not that Nowarra adds much weight to that side) rather than with Imrie. But, ya' pays your money and ya' takes your chances. Incidently, while I've got your attention turned to the Kempf photos on page 71 of Imrie's book, lemme add an additional inquiry to this thread. Imrie sez the top photo is NOT the same triplane as the bottom because of "the reversed tail colors and the changed national insignia (and) comparison of the camouflage streaking and the wing inscriptions..." Now Imrie is OBVIOUSLY wrong about the "reversed tail colors" (both photos have the white tailplane on the starboard side). But can anyone else see the claimed "changed national insignias" or any differences in in the camouflage streaking or the wing inscriptions? I've squinted and I'll be damned if I can ascertain any differences. Did Imrie mess up completely on this 'un? They look like photos of the same damn aircraft to me! (Imrie's error on the reversed tail colors lends additional credence to the WW1 researcher's motto, "Question authority!" - if he screwed up completely, perhaps we might change the motto to "REALLY question authority!!") :-) Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 425 *********************