WWI Digest 423 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Saturday, 3 January 1917, Raoenel near St Just by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 2) Sunday, 4 February 1917, Raoenel near St Just by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 3) Re: Future Floor Wax? by "Brian Bushe" 4) Re: Future Floor Wax? by "Brian Bushe" 5) German Pilot Interview (forwarded from WWI history list) by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 6) Re: German Pilot Interview (forwarded from WWI history list) by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 7) Re: Future Floor Wax? by mbittner@juno.com 8) Re: Colors! by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 9) RE: Future Floor Wax? by Shane Weier 10) Re: Castor Oil Stains by "Bill Ciciora" 11) Re: Future Floor Wax? by "Rob " 12) Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D.III by "Shelley Goodwin" 13) Chronicle Of The First World War, Volume II: 1917-1921 by "Shelley Goodwin" 14) RE: Morane Saulnier badge by Shane Weier 15) Re: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D.III by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 16) Re: Castor Oil Stains by "Valenciano . Jose" 17) Re: Kit Review: Sky Birds 86-Halberstadt DII by DavidL1217@aol.com 18) Re: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D.III by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 19) Re: Kit Review: Sky Birds 86-Halberstadt DII by barrett@iplink.net (barrett) 20) RE: Chronicle Of The First World War, Volume II: 1917-1921 by Peter Kilduff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:15:08 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Saturday, 3 January 1917, Raoenel near St Just Message-ID: <32F7A6DC.1AA7@host.dmsc.net> 915. Fine day but as my machine is under repairs on account of the motor being changed I couldn't get out over the lines. Occupied my time most of the day in doing designs of aerial combats on the cardboard of the walls of our attractive living room. It has only been since I got to the front here and have flown over this sector that I realized how near to the lines I was when with the Legion in repose at Hangert, Boulencourt and Mondider [Montdidier] in 1915. Aerial distances seem very much shorter than land ones when the two are compared. When will I ever hear from beloved Gertrude again? The continual waiting for a letter is unbearable. I'm gradually losing hope over her. from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:21:10 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Sunday, 4 February 1917, Raoenel near St Just Message-ID: <32F7A846.338F@host.dmsc.net> Fine day. My machine is still without a motor as the new ones haven't arrived so I could do no flying. I hate to lie around in idleness during this excellent fling weather too. Had nothing to do of particular importance all day. Diplomatic relations seem to be on the final slump between the U.S. and Germany at last, as Count Bernstoff has been given his passports to return to Germany and Ambassador Gerard has been ordered to leave Germany for the States. It certainly seems almost too good to be true. Perhaps war will be actually be a fact soon and our escadrille be truely American so we can fight under Old Glory as well as the French Tri-color. We're all feeling pretty cheerful to night. I'm almost too happy to write these few lines much less any letters. Three big cheers. I'm glad Pres. Wilson has shown some real manhood and determination at last. from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 15:22:17 +0000 From: "Brian Bushe" To: wwi Subject: Re: Future Floor Wax? Message-ID: <199702041530.PAA14381@itl.net> re: Re: Future Floor Wax? > My only other advise is to try it any way you like. If it works for you, > stay with it. If it does not work, modify the application untill it does > work. I use it for a sealer. apply the decals and do any panel line > detailing I want, then put another coat on the top to seal the finish. > Pastel weathering would be put on last. One word of caution. Do not put > it on over any acrylic gloss paint. It will look great for about 3 days. > Then the color coat will start to develop spider web looking cracks. It is > OK over flats and semi gloss paints. Is this the same problem as with enamel overcoats: if the acrylic has not probably dried (probably a week or more drying time) it will shrink under the overcoat, causing crazing in the finish. Brian 'My mind is going. There is no question of it' - Hal 9000 Brian Bushe syclone@itl.net Syclone Systems Fieldhouse Lane (44) 01628 476 500 Marlow Fax 01628 475 522 Buckinghamshire England ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 15:22:18 +0000 From: "Brian Bushe" To: wwi Subject: Re: Future Floor Wax? Message-ID: <199702041530.PAA14371@itl.net> re: Re: Future Floor Wax? > Definitely clean the airbrush afterwards. For me, I just spray > car windshield cleaning fluid, and that does a wonderful job. > However, be *very* careful with the windshield fluid, as this > *will* take off Future. Don't drip any on your model - again, > trust me on this. ;-) will this remove dry future? > If you don't like spraying Testor's dull coat anymore, then > definitely try Polly Scale's dull coat. *Not* Polly S, but Polly > Scale. They've changed their flat "formula", and it works > wonderfully. However, you will need to thin this. I recommend > thinning with windshield washing fluid. Actually, this is how I > thin *all* my Polly Scale for airbrushing. It works wonders, and > it's *cheap*. Around here, a gallon of the stuff goes for $.99, > and it lasts for a few models. Well worth the cost. I've heard of people using windscreen washer for thinning but haven't really looked into it properly. most i've seen have a blue colouring in them. do you use a clear one ? brian 'My mind is going. There is no question of it' - Hal 9000 Brian Bushe syclone@itl.net Syclone Systems Fieldhouse Lane (44) 01628 476 500 Marlow Fax 01628 475 522 Buckinghamshire England ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:10:19 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: German Pilot Interview (forwarded from WWI history list) Message-ID: <32F7C1DB.1F3B@host.dmsc.net> Forwarded from the WWI History list: Henderson, Sharon wrote: > > Hi folks, > > For those interested in aviation, there's a really nice article by Ted > Sacher in the March, 1997 issue of Military History (on newsstands now > in the US, avail. by phone to their back issues dept at > 1-800-358-6327). The article is entitled, "Survival Over the Western > Front", and is an interview with Otto Roosen, who began his military > career as a Jaeger, but transferred to the Luftstreitskraefte in 1916. > In a Jasta for a while flying an Albatros, he eventually realized he > didn't like shooting people down, and so became a recon pilot, flying > a Rumpler C.VII. > > It's a great interview; I especially enjoyed his honest commentary on > what it was really like flying those planes. There's also a sidebar > article about "Germany's High-Altitude Spy Planes", by Jon Guttman. > > Worth picking up, if you don't subscribe.... > > enjoy, > Sharon Henderson > Fairfax, VA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:11:32 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Re: German Pilot Interview (forwarded from WWI history list) Message-ID: <32F7C224.23D@host.dmsc.net> Forwarded from WWI History list: Joellyn Auklandus wrote: > > At 02:01 PM 2/4/97 est, you wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > For those interested in aviation, there's a really nice article by Ted > > Sacher in the March, 1997 issue of Military History (on newsstands now > > in the US, avail. by phone to their back issues dept at > > 1-800-358-6327). The article is entitled, "Survival Over the Western > > Front", and is an interview with Otto Roosen, who began his military > > career as a Jaeger, but transferred to the Luftstreitskraefte in 1916. > > In a Jasta for a while flying an Albatros, he eventually realized he > > didn't like shooting people down, and so became a recon pilot, flying > > a Rumpler C.VII. > > > I'm delighted to see that! I met Herr Roosen at Aerodrome '92 -- a spritely > little elf of a guy, just pleased as all get-out at the attention paid to > him. Don't know if it's in the interview, but I remember a story he told us > about his final flight in 1918...if I remember correctly (and you MUST > imagine this told in a VERY heavy German accent ): > > "We were flying our planes to Darmstadt, as we were ordered to do, but we > ran out of benzine...we landed and the local people would not give us the > benzine to complete our orders -- when all of a sudden lands a big plane and > a little man with a big blue medal gets out and says if they do not give us > benzine he will shoot them with his machine guns...that was Udet! Udet was > a GOOD man." > > Treasure the stories you get from these last Alte Adlers, my friends -- to > hear them first hand is miraculous! > > Joellyn Auklandus > jaukland@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:55:53 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Future Floor Wax? Message-ID: <19970204.155830.13478.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:35:05 -0500 "Brian Bushe" writes: > will this remove dry future? I believe so. I think I've done it, but my memory is fuzzy. > I've heard of people using windscreen washer for thinning but > haven't really looked into it properly. most i've seen have a > blue colouring in them. do you use a clear one ? Nope, I use the blue. I have never had a color "discoloration" from it, and that includes spraying an all-white aircraft using "blue" windshield washer fluid. Go for it. ;-) Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:11:07 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Colors! Message-ID: to continue a thread: >> Fokker B.1 in Austrio-Hungarian service (yeah, building the >> Miekraft) > >Are you sure it's the B.I and not the B.II? The B.I was a >two-seater, while the B.II appears to be the D.I derivative. > >If it's the B.II, the pictures in the A-H tome show it to be >either in the "A-H Fokker Green", or clear doped linen. I would >be more inclined towards a very dirty clear doped linen. Why >dirty? Because the castor oil spray from the engine made it so. > To put things in to perspective just a little it should help to keep in mind that the basis for "A-H Fokker Green" is a single swatch of fabric provided to Marty O'Connor by the late Rodney Gerrard. The provenance of this piece of fabric is suspect to say the least, no other examples have emerged from museums or other private collections. Despite this, both O'Connor and later Ray Rimell were trusting enough to put this shade of color on the cover of a Windsock Datafile and have the rest of us believe that this was the way that things looked for A-H Fokkers. Hey maybe this is an authentic color, but if so, there is very, very scant evidence to prove that it is. My $0.02 worth. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:17:00 +1100 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Future Floor Wax? Message-ID: <01BC1345.58D8B6C0@pc087b.mim.com.au> Brian asks: >will this remove dry future? Beats me, but what WILL remove it quickly and easily is household ammonia. Says so on the bottles I use. Works just like they say. Regarding thinners: I *never* thin Future (or Super Stride as Johnsons call it here) and suggest that doing so is not really a good idea. Windshield fluid works fine as a thinner for acrylic paints, and the blue tint is not visible. It may in fact be advantageous with whites, since artists are prone to put a *tiny* spot of blue into whites where they don't want it yellowing. Having said that I don't use it, but a 60/40 mix of isopropyl alcohol and distilled water with a tiny drop of Kodak photoflo. Regards Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:31:02 -0600 From: "Bill Ciciora" To: "WWI Model List" Subject: Re: Castor Oil Stains Message-ID: Matt asked about castor oil stain weathering. This is something that I had been thinking about for the past few days as my Fokker D.VIII gets closer to completion. Tonight I tried a thinned gloss black wash, applied with a stiff bristle brush with a poking motion as well as a brushing motion. The poking motion creates kind of a splatter effect that looks convincing, especially on lozenge decal. I have a layer of Glosscote and a layer of Dullcote on top of the lozenge. Your mileage may vary. Bill C. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:34:44 +0000 From: "Rob " To: wwi Subject: Re: Future Floor Wax? Message-ID: <199702050538.AAA05872@cliff.cris.com> >> One word of caution. Do not put it [Future] > > on over any acrylic gloss paint. It will look great for about 3 days. > > Then the color coat will start to develop spider web looking cracks. It is > > OK over flats and semi gloss paints. > > Is this the same problem as with enamel overcoats: if the acrylic has > not probably dried (probably a week or more drying time) it will > shrink under the overcoat, causing crazing in the finish. I think this is due to solvent entrapment--a dry layer of clear over a still curing layer of color. The solvent vapors can't get out, and the hard-cured layers above can't stretch, hence the cracking. I did a PBY model in overall gloss black Pactra acrylic coated with Future (to recall a WW2 ID model my Dad did with an over-enthusiastic gloss lacquer finish). It worked great. I did, however, wait a week or two after applying the paint before I applied Future. Gloss paints tend to take longer to cure than flats, so I suspect this was the above writer's problem. On the advice of car modellers I know, I don't airbrush Future (it tends to dry on the fly, producing a cloudy effect, in my experience and it is hard to clean out of the tool--though I didn't think of ammonia). I wipe it on with an old, lint-free rag, like the car guys. It's fast, and it works great. You just have to be careful to apply neither too much (sags and drips) nor too little (streaks). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 97 21:33:23 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D.III Message-ID: <9701048551.AA855121820@mx.Ricochet.net> Anyone have info on scheme and markings or perhaps a synopsis of the Jasta's Macedonian service? Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 97 21:41:03 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Chronicle Of The First World War, Volume II: 1917-1921 Message-ID: <9701048551.AA855121829@mx.Ricochet.net> PK et al, Has anyone checked out this apparently 'ground-breaking' book? I thought I might have to write it myself! I'll probabbly be ordering it tomorrow. My obvious questions are how the RCW, Weimar Republic and associated aerial campaigns covered... Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:00:24 +1100 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Morane Saulnier badge Message-ID: <01BC137D.B40E3140@pc087b.mim.com.au> Greg, Matt, Charles et al, Greg Says: >What you describe is remarkably like the old brass data plates for the brew >kettles at Celis. These are (I think) sand castings about 1/4 X 1/2 meter. >From close examination it looks as if the letters and surrounding framing >were pressed into a bed of sand When I was an engineering undergrad I had to design castings to be made in this fashion. It's called "green sand casting" Matt says >. And it appears that the 'M' and 'L' were stamped direct >onto the cowl. Well, "M", "L" and an enclosing circle anyway. I doubt if it's done this way. as Charles says: > but I would suspect that this piece was riveted to the metal >of the cowling and not pressed into it directly. Having another look at all the pics I'm more than ever convinced that it's riveted on. It's not on all cowls. No idea whether there is any obvious pattern to the use or otherwise. I *am* pretty sure the badge is brass, having read that elsewhere, and the photos look like the background, if painted, is usually cowl colour, so mine has got a black background. That is, fix badge to cowl, paint black overall, buff over the badge with 1200 grit. Clean, neat, a perfect application for brass etching. My MS-L is getting close to completed. A kit builders report will follow, inspired by Joeys SSW D.III review. Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:31:15 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D.III Message-ID: <199702050631.AA22029@ednet1.orednet.org> When we last left our intrepid adventurers, Riordan was saying: > > Anyone have info on scheme and markings or perhaps a synopsis of the > Jasta's Macedonian service? > > Riordan >From "The Jasta Pilots": "Had personal initials in black or white on Roland DIIa and Albatros DIIIs in Macedonia, also on Halberstadt DIIs." "Created 28 November, 1916, through KdF, 11 Armee, at Prilip on the Macedonian front pursuant to Kreigs Ministerium von Nr.1425.16g.A.7.L and was mobilized on 1 December under the command of Oberleutnant Fredrick-Karl Burckhardt of Feld Flieger Abteilung 30, and equipped with the Halberstadt DII. The Jasta's first victory came on 10 December, Ltn Bodo von Lyncker scoring his first victory. Von Lyncker was also the first combat casualty, colliding with an enemy Nieuport south of Gevgjeli on 18 February. On 13 march, the Jasta moved to Kanatlarci, where Ltn Otto Brauneck, who came to the Jasta with one claim, became the first ace by downing his 6th victory on 31 March. Oberleutnant Burckhardt was promoted to Hauptmann on 1 December, 1917 and on 1 February, 1918 was transferred to the Western Front to command Kest 2, at Saarbrucken. Command of Jasta 25 was assumed by Ltn Renatus Heydacker (2 victories) from Jasta 38 until the end of the war. Jasta 25 was credited with the destruction of at least 54 enemy aircraft including 8 balloons, while losing only two pilots killed in combat, one killed and two injured in flying accidents." (umlauts omitted!) Of course, the most famous Jasta 25 pilot was Gerhard Fiesler, with 19 victories and who gained a measure of fame in a later conflict as a designer/manufacturer of STOL aircraft and early cruise missiles. All quotes copyright 1996 by Norman Franks, Frank Bailey, and Richard Duiven. Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:39:53 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: "Valenciano . Jose" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Castor Oil Stains Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Bill Ciciora wrote: > Matt asked about castor oil stain weathering. This is something that I had > been > thinking about for the past few days as my Fokker D.VIII gets closer to > completion. Tonight I tried a thinned gloss black wash, applied with a > stiff > bristle brush with a poking motion as well as a brushing motion. The poking > motion > creates kind of a splatter effect that looks convincing, especially on > lozenge > decal. Also try some "clear black" aka "smoke" ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 02:11:56 -0500 (EST) From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Kit Review: Sky Birds 86-Halberstadt DII Message-ID: <970205003527_949146415@emout20.mail.aol.com> 1/72 Scale I have recently received my kit from Sky Birds 86. In short, it's a winner. It better be at $35. However, it's the only accurate example out there and a good buy compared to a $25 Merlin kit. This kit serves as a basis for similar DIII and DV offerings. The parts are as follows: Resin: Fuselage, Wings White Metal: Wheels (rubber tires!), stabilizer with rear most portion of the fuselage, rudder, engine, exhaust, radiator, seat with fuel tank, propeller, undercarrage spreader bar, machine gun, skid, control stick and rudder bar. Brass: Control Horns, instrument panel, cockpit floor with fold up framing, front cabine struts, prop boss, foot step. Brass Strutz and Wire for struts and undercarriage Decals for 6 DIIs, 6 Dllls and 2 DV's.( Common sheet for all 3 models) The kit is well molded and accurate per Ian Stair's drawings. These are acknowledged in the instructions. As per the earlier kits, the fuselage is one piece with an open bottom beneath the cockpit. The fuselage bottom is intregal to the lower wings, a very nice touch that should be standard in the industry. (Even vacs could benefit from this, though the fuselage necessarily has to be two pieces.) You build the interior and insert it in the kit and cap it from below with the lower wings. The engine is well molded and is really only the upper 2/3s which is plugged into a well fromed cavity. Surface detail is quite nice. There is a bit of part clean up required and like most WWI kits, the assembly strategy needs to be planned before you charge off to the CA glue. I plan to build this for the IPMS Chapter 5 convention in St. Louis. Other recently released kits include the Haberstadts DIII and DV, Albatros CX (!) and Aviatik CIII (!!!). Expensive but nice. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:24:53 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Vzfw Anton Banhofer's Jasta 25 Macedonian Alb. D.III Message-ID: <199702050824.AA19975@ednet1.orednet.org> As a follow-up, the correct spelling is, apparently, "Bauhofer", not "Banhofer". Four victories - 4/29/17 (Nieuport), 10/16/17 (AR2), 3/18/18 (balloon), and 5/4/18 (AR2). Unconfirmed victory on 2/28/28 (unidentified "2-seater"). Further information on decorations, etc. available on request. Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - "Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:01:58 -0500 From: barrett@iplink.net (barrett) To: wwi Subject: Re: Kit Review: Sky Birds 86-Halberstadt DII Message-ID: We've recently heard from David L. > >I have recently received my kit from Sky Birds 86. In short, it's a winner. > It better be at $35. However, it's the only accurate example out there and a >good buy compared to a $25 Merlin kit. This kit serves as a basis for >similar DIII and DV offerings. > Where (or who) can this kit be mail ordered from? TIA. Kevin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 8:02:29 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Kilduff To: wwi Subject: RE: Chronicle Of The First World War, Volume II: 1917-1921 Message-ID: <970205080229.202c2126@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> Never heard of it. PK ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 423 *********************