WWI Digest 385 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Re[4]: Who won? by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 2) Re: Re[2]: Nieuport/Macchi 11 Bebe by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 3) RE: This List by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 4) Re: datum line by iceman@ro.com (Eli Geher) 5) Re: datum line by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 6) Back again. by Bill Bacon 7) Re: This List and Dinosaurs by DavidL1217@aol.com 8) Re: This List by Lawrence Dunn 9) Re: Re[2]: Nieuport articles by "Ray Boorman" 10) Re: Re[4]: Who won? by mbittner@juno.com 11) Re: Nieuport articles by mbittner@juno.com 12) Thursday, 4 January 1916, Plessis by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 13) Re: datum line by Mark Shannon 14) Datum line by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 23:34:15 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re[4]: Who won? Message-ID: <199701040434.XAA13725@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 10:50 PM 1/3/97 -0500, Shelley Goodwin wrote: > >Hi this is Rory's wife, Shelley. I am the one Rory's keeps hounding about these >image files. If I spend some time, I am sure I can solve the problem. We have >a fairly up-to-date system, PC not a MAC(yuk!). We are using a mail package >called ccMail Mobile by Lotus because use a wireless modem by Ricochet (my >brother's the VP of Engineering there). Anyhow, when I receive an attachment >from someone, it usually appears as an icon which ccMail Mobil does decipher >for me. For some reason your images appear as part of the message in code. I >have scanned the on-line help but did not find a way to decode the "uuencoded" >file. Also, we have somehow lost the code on your previous message. If you >could try again, I will find a way to view the image (gif or jpeg). Thanks OK, so what is it: Rory or Riordan??????????????????????? Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 23:36:01 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nieuport/Macchi 11 Bebe Message-ID: <199701040436.XAA13774@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 11:43 PM 1/2/97 -0500, Shelley Goodwin wrote: > Mike, > > Although not a member of the scale police, I'm just wondering if you > realize the rockets & 'guide sticks' of the Smer may be too BIG for a > 1/28 Bebe... If you don't care, you're well on your way to recovering > from AMS (Advanced Modeler's Syndrome), which causes us to make > tortuous, obsessive ordeals out of the simplest models. Or, you may be > one of the few on the list never to have been afflicted... Maybe not yet afflicted would be more accurate. I live in dread fear of getting good enough at this stuff to start worrying about making major overhauls on kits. A few small refinements I can handle.;-) Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 23:36:04 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: This List Message-ID: <199701040436.XAA13784@pease1.sr.unh.edu> At 01:51 PM 1/3/97 -0500, Rob wrote: > >> >>> Same with my daughter. She did a T-rex and painted the underbelly >> >>> bright orange! The color police would have had a field day! ;-)) > >> Bright Orange! - Wouldn't that be a prototype or test model? I'm >> sure the field models were in a low-viz six colour lozenge. Cheers, Jim. > >Actually, a T-Rex would have had little need for camo, given that he >was bigger, fiercer, and faster than almost anything he might meet. >In any case, most recent dino books suggest that bright colors were >likely. I think the little girl done it right. Oh Great...an 11 year old who is now going to throw this up at me!;-& ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 23:32:30 -0600 From: iceman@ro.com (Eli Geher) To: wwi Subject: Re: datum line Message-ID: <199701040532.XAA03403@sh1.ro.com> > A new year and the first of my inane questions.....I keep reading >references to a "datum line" that appears on many German airplanes. I can >see it on the fuselages....my question is: What is it? there never appears >to by any "data" on it. It just looks like a long, narrow dark line. Ok, let >me know how stupid I am not to know this. >Mike Muth > I'm not looking at a specific reference on this, but I think its safe to assume that "datum line" in this case would be the base line for measurements used in rigging the airplane. Biplanes have always come with a rigging manual which gives the precise dimensions to have the wings and tail surfaces adjusted relative to the fuselage and to each other. These dimensions are vital in order for the airplane to fly as God and the engineers intended. All those turnbuckles on the wires are the instruments by which the proper dimensions are achieved. The datum plane would be established at 3 hardpoints on the fuselage structure and would be a straight line when viewed from the side. I believe the procedure is to establish the datum line as a true horizontal by jacking under the tailpost and checking with a transit or a spirit level. Its been many years since I got involved with this, on a Stearman rather then a Sopwith. I don't recall the details of how it was done, but its a finicky process at best. I'm not aware that lines were routinely marked on the exterior. A structural feature might correspond with the datum line, but because of flex or warpage, you wouldn't generally rely on it to be sufficiently exact. The actual line would be defined by a point on the wing mount structure and a point on the tail mount structure. Which is probably a lot more then anyone wanted to read on the subject. Eli Geher ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 22:09:29 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: datum line Message-ID: <199701040609.AA16260@ednet1.orednet.org> Eli Geher typed: > >> A new year and the first of my inane questions.....I keep reading >>references to a "datum line" that appears on many German airplanes. I can >>see it on the fuselages....my question is: What is it? there never appears >>to by any "data" on it. It just looks like a long, narrow dark line. Ok, let >>me know how stupid I am not to know this. >>Mike Muth >> > >I'm not looking at a specific reference on this, but I think its safe to >assume that "datum line" in this case would be the base line for >measurements used in rigging the airplane. -much good stuff snipped- >I'm not aware that lines were routinely marked on the exterior. -snipped- The datum lines were routinely marked on German planes, at least as they left the factory although the lines tended to get overpainted by unit markings, personal insignia, and the like, once the aircraft reached the operational units. >Which is probably a lot more then anyone wanted to read on the subject. Not at all, thanks for sharing. Your explanation answered several questions I had on this subject. Cheers, -- - Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 00:35:47 -0600 From: Bill Bacon To: "World War I modeler's list" Subject: Back again. Message-ID: <32CDFA43.7C70@netjava.net> Hello all, Back from North Carolina. Grad kids and family in Morrisville, dangerously close to Durham and Chapel Hill. We survived and got home today. Have read 305 messages today. Left the 19th and covered about 3400 miles. Pretty country but I like the wide open spaces of Texas and the panhandle. Will try to catch up in the next few days. Bradlely, I'm back. Matt I will get thee tape in the mail Monday HONEST. Mike how do you listen to your music, cassette, if so may send you some. Shane, thank you for all your help. My eyes are crossing so had better quit for now. Cheers, Bill Bill Bacon wbacon@netjava.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 12:26:09 -0500 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: This List and Dinosaurs Message-ID: <970104122609_944426508@emout06.mail.aol.com> At the Over-The Front seminar, Barry at Rosemont entered a JG 2, Jasta 15 Pteradactyl complete with pilot! It was Prussian Blue with Red Head and claws. Perhaps it will appear in the Jasta Pilots....... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 13:13:31 -0800 From: Lawrence Dunn To: wwi Subject: Re: This List Message-ID: <32CEC7FB.7F76@mail.idt.net> Mary-Ann/Michael wrote: > > At 01:51 PM 1/3/97 -0500, Rob wrote: > > > >> >>> Same with my daughter. She did a T-rex and painted the underbelly > >> >>> bright orange! The color police would have had a field day! ;-)) > > > >> Bright Orange! - Wouldn't that be a prototype or test model? I'm > >> sure the field models were in a low-viz six colour lozenge. Cheers, Jim. > > > >Actually, a T-Rex would have had little need for camo, given that he > >was bigger, fiercer, and faster than almost anything he might meet. > >In any case, most recent dino books suggest that bright colors were > >likely. I think the little girl done it right. > > Oh Great...an 11 year old who is now going to throw this up at me!;-& Then again, although this statement is largely true of T. Rex, most scientists today think that this animal was an ambush predator (it pounced from the cover of woods, etc., at its prey), so would have benefited from camo. Same comment as above could apply to tigers, yet they are well camo-ed for their environment! So fight off your 11 year old with that! :) Larry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:55:59 -0800 From: "Ray Boorman" To: Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nieuport articles Message-ID: <199701041820.KAA17510@cessna.lynx.bc.ca> One of the reasons I was interested in the Scale Models articles was to see if there were any sections on how to improve the Testor's 1/48 Nieuport 17. I compared the model to the Datafile and came up with a page of items that need to be changed. This was in addition to the moulded markings and of course adding cockpit details. However not sure if I am up to the task of the improvments. I can see it now I will get just past the point of no return and then realise that I don't have the requisite skills. At that point my son gets another model to paint. Of course the model only cost me $3 dollars at an IPMS show so I won't have wasted much either way. ---------- > From: Mary-Ann/Michael > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nieuport/Macchi 11 Bebe > Date: Friday, January 03, 1997 8:36 PM > > Maybe not yet afflicted would be more accurate. I live in dread fear > of getting good enough at this stuff to start worrying about making major > overhauls on kits. A few small refinements I can handle.;-) > Mike > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 13:39:16 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[4]: Who won? Message-ID: <19970104.124101.9182.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Fri, 3 Jan 1997 22:50:13 -0500 "Shelley Goodwin" writes: > Hi this is Rory's wife, Shelley. I am the one Rory's keeps > hounding about these image files. If I spend some time, I am > sure I can solve the problem. We have a fairly up-to-date > system, PC not a MAC(yuk!). We are using a mail package called > ccMail Mobile by Lotus because use a wireless modem by Ricochet > (my brother's the VP of Engineering there). Anyhow, when I > receive an attachment from someone, it usually appears as an > icon which ccMail Mobil does decipher for me. For some reason > your images appear as part of the message in code. I have > scanned the on-line help but did not find a way to decode the > "uuencoded" file. Also, we have somehow lost the code on your > previous message. If you could try again, I will find a way to > view the image (gif or jpeg). Everybody needs to use the *freeware* product WinCode. Not only does it handle decoding, but encoding, as well. There are more features it has, but these two are the most important. Here's the URL: http://www.global2000.net/users/snappy/snappy/wincode.html Highly recommended, even if you have a mail program that automatically handles uuencode. Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 13:42:27 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Nieuport articles Message-ID: <19970104.124359.9182.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 13:22:12 -0500 "Ray Boorman" writes: > One of the reasons I was interested in the Scale Models articles > was to see if there were any sections on how to improve the > Testor's 1/48 Nieuport 17. I compared the model to the Datafile > and came up with a page of items that need to be changed. This > was in addition to the moulded markings and of course adding > cockpit details. However not sure if I am up to the task of the > improvments. I can see it now I will get just past the point of > no return and then realise that I don't have the requisite > skills. At that point my son gets another model to paint. Of > course the model only cost me $3 dollars at an IPMS show so I > won't have wasted much either way. In my quest for all things Nieuport, could you email me a copy of your "page of items"? I'm working on one for the Revell Nie.28, and when I get around to it, I'll work on one for the Glencoe Nie.28. Thanks! Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 18:05:50 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Thursday, 4 January 1916, Plessis Message-ID: <32CF0C7E.232A@host.dmsc.net> Rainy most of the day but cleared up fine by the evening. Took 9:56 train back from Paris this morning getting here before noon. These military French trains are abominably slow. Too rainy to fly this afternoon, spent most of the time reading. Am feeling very much disheartened and blue and mighty lonely for news from dear beloved Gertrude. Surely she has already that first letter I sent her in December from Pau in care of her aunt, Mrs Barlow and will have answered so that I should get her letters very soon. Its very mystifying. ****************** from the War Diary of E.C.C. Genet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 16:29:43 -0600 From: Mark Shannon To: wwi Subject: Re: datum line Message-ID: <32CED9D7.71AF@ix.netcom.com> Mary-Ann/Michael wrote: > > A new year and the first of my inane questions.....I keep reading > references to a "datum line" that appears on many German airplanes. I can > see it on the fuselages....my question is: What is it? there never appears > to by any "data" on it. It just looks like a long, narrow dark line. Ok, let > me know how stupid I am not to know this. > Mike Muth 'Datum' is often used in engineering to refer to a set point from which other references are made. So the datum line is a line along the thrust line of the aircraft, used in setting anything that required trestling to 'flying attitude' or other such and also used for realigning engine components or such. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com Remember that every cliche started out as a stroke of genius. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 20:51:56 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Datum line Message-ID: <199701050151.UAA15926@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Eli, Bill and Mark: Thanks for the info on datum line. One more mystery unraveled. Mike Muth ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 385 *********************