WWI Digest 380 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: 1 of 129 subscribers by Erik Pilawskii 2) Re: 1 of 129 subscribers by Erik Pilawskii 3) Current Project(s) by SHUSTAD@email.usps.gov 4) Re: Currently building & Tamiya F-4 by "Brian Bushe" 5) Re: This List by "Brian Bushe" 6) by Peter Fedders 7) Re: Off Topic - F2A Buffalo by mbittner@juno.com 8) Re: Lovely Modeling weather by mbittner@juno.com 9) Re: This List - Air or Armor? by GRBroman@aol.com 10) Re: This List - Air or Armor? by GRBroman@aol.com 11) Re[2]: This List - Air or Armor? by SHUSTAD@email.usps.gov 12) Re: Off Topic - F2A Buffalo by GRBroman@aol.com 13) German Seaplanes by knut.erik.hagen@login.eunet.no (Knut Erik Hagen) 14) Re: Off Topic - F2A Buffalo -Finlandia! by JimMaas@aol.com 15) Re: Off Topic - F2A Buffalo by JimMaas@aol.com 16) List Member's Database by mbittner@juno.com 17) Re: No Subject by DavidL1217@aol.com 18) Re: Saturday, 30 December 1916, Blessis, Paris & back again by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 19) Re: Saturday, 30 December 1916, Blessis, Paris & back again by Erik Pilawskii 20) Re: This List - Air or Armor? by Lawrence Dunn 21) Sunday, 31 December 1916, Plessis by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 22) Sunday, 31 December 1916, Plessis (2nd entry of the day) by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 23) Re: Driven Nuts by Bob Norgren 24) Re: Driven Nuts by Bob Norgren 25) Re: Currently building & Tamiya F-4 by Mark Shannon 26) Re: Nieuport request by Mark Shannon 27) Re: Driven Nuts by mbittner@juno.com 28) Re[3]: This List - Air or Armor? by "Shelley Goodwin" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 00:25:25 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: 1 of 129 subscribers Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Dec 1996, Bill Shatzer wrote: > >I would like to add a swallow to the list, but am not sure of the wing > >dimensions. > > Would that be a European or African swallow? The wing dimensions are, > in any case, insufficient to support a coconut. > I say, how do you come so much about swallows?.... (looking forward cheekily to your personal affirmation of Social Rank) Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "If you're not living Life on the edge, you're taking up too much room!" .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 00:57:00 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: 1 of 129 subscribers Message-ID: > On Tue, 31 Dec 1996, Bill Shatzer wrote: > > >I would like to add a swallow to the list, but am not sure of the wing > > >dimensions. > > > > Would that be a European or African swallow? The wing dimensions are, > > in any case, insufficient to support a coconut. > > > I say, how do you come to know so much about swallows?.... (looking forward cheekily to your personal affirmation of Social Rank) [danged typing errors...] Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "If you're not living Life on the edge, you're taking up too much room!" .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 09:26:12 -0500 From: SHUSTAD@email.usps.gov To: "(u)WWI(a)PEASE1.SR.UNH.EDU" Subject: Current Project(s) Message-ID: <0033000002082493000002*@MHS> Well, ok, I'll throw in my current project updates then too! I am presently working on: (Two) 1/35 German WW I figure vignettes (Ground war dioramas with three and four figures each) 1/72 (scratchbuilt) Albatros Dr.II 1/72 Pegasus Pfalz D.XII 1/72 Airfix Heinkel He 177A5 (what a beast! - over 100 hours into already, and only 1/2 done!) 1/72 Revell Mitsubishi Ki 21 "Sally" (*very* nice kit for it's age) 1/72 Huma Messerschmitt Me 263 V1 1/72 Airmodel (vac) Messerschmitt Me 163C0 and one secret project...;^) BTW - I'll be moving from the Kansas City area back to Minneapolis (home!) soon so I'll have to sign off at least temporarily in a couple weeks. I'll try to get access from my new job, or from a home set up. I'll keep everyone posted. See you at the IPMS Region 5 convention in St. Louis in May, and in Columbus at the IPMS/USA Nationals in July! Steve H. (The Mad Norseman!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:49:01 +0000 From: "Brian Bushe" To: wwi Subject: Re: Currently building & Tamiya F-4 Message-ID: <199612311057.KAA21176@itl.net> re: Re: Currently building & Tamiya F-4 > On Mon, 30 Dec 1996 09:40:14 -0500 Brian Nicklas > writes: > > > Regarding the Tamiya F-4 Phantom it: This kit is molded very > > well - they did NOT replicate Battle Damage Repair patches from > > a grounded "classroom" F-4. > > Ah, see the problems we get into when we listen to heresay? > Sorry I listened, and bigger apologies for helping spread the > rumor. Will you forgive me? ;-) > Is that hearsay or heresy? It strikes me that maybe one arises from the other! Just an observation, not a spelling police raid! Brian :-) Brian Bushe syclone@itl.net Syclone Systems Denmark Street (44) 1628 789 470 Maidenhead Fax 789 513 Berkshire England ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:49:01 +0000 From: "Brian Bushe" To: wwi Subject: Re: This List Message-ID: <199612311057.KAA21178@itl.net> re: This List > However, we want to hear what you have to say. Modeling is an > "interactive" hobby. Sure, you can model without the interaction, > but the interaction not only helps us "grow" as modelers, but also > provides some great comraderie. > > So, for all you lurkers, what are you currently working on? > > I'll step out on a limb here. Not only is work progressing > ssslllooowwwlllyyy on the Eduard Albatros D.V, but I've started > the Glencoe Nie.28. > > Yep, the scale police are going to get me for this one. ;-) > > Okay, people. Let's here what the current *WW1* project is. I guess I'm probably more of a lurker than a contributor, mainly because there are a number of experts on the group who can add a more meaningful comment on any subject i care to raise. I do my best though with some quick looks at new Eduard kits which I seem to get before anyone else. I would be the original lurker as i have subscribed to this list for over two years and usually check it twice a day at least! As for projects, even I don't know how many kits I have started, just how many I've finished (three in the last three years!maybe three more close to finish but not even on the workbench!). last thing I was working on was a hi-tech mercedes diii kit for either an albatros or that waldo w29, but i got frustrated trying to fit the cylinder snug togther so backed off it. then christmas came along so nothing's been done for a while.I have a 1:1 scale car that i use to get to work that has been getting some attention recently as well. My real problem with kits is my eyes are bigger than my workbench, and I get distracted by everything. I'm very much an impulse purchaser and if I see a model in a box I often get the urge to build it. Then I see another! When will it end! Brian Brian Bushe syclone@itl.net Syclone Systems Denmark Street (44) 1628 789 470 Maidenhead Fax 789 513 Berkshire England ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 08:52:41 -0600 From: Peter Fedders To: wwi Message-ID: <199612311452.IAA19274@howdy.wustl.edu> About the question of why the Japanese lost WWII. Answer: they couldn't replace lost equiptment (ships and aircraft) Japan was not a modern industrial state. Their industrial capacity was about 1/20 of the US !!! They had no chance from day one. Except for a very few officers, the Japanese were unaware of the industrial might of the US and the west. Although I don't remember the exact numbers, the WWI "Allies" also had an large advantage over the Central Powers in manpower and industrial capacity. This was true before the US entered the war and the advantage was overwhelming after the US entry. You don't win a long war with a significant industrial deficit - look at the American civil war. The only exception that I know of is with guerrilla wars against imperial (well meaning or not) powers. (This argument, of course, only holds since the industrial revolution) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 05:52:55 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Off Topic - F2A Buffalo Message-ID: <19961231.045402.13550.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 31 Dec 1996 00:32:50 -0500 JimMaas@aol.com writes: >Just trying to keep some WWI content in this off-topic topic. Ah...had me going. Great job, Jim!! Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 05:52:55 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Lovely Modeling weather Message-ID: <19961231.045402.13550.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 31 Dec 1996 01:07:32 -0500 DavidL1217@aol.com writes: > Please note that the Pegasus 1 1/2 strutter needs to have the > fuselage sides packed out and the seam filled. I noticed that > they shaved (off of the Czechmaster (00Ps, did I say that?) > resin master when cutting the mold.) roughly 1/16th of an inch > off the mating surfaces of the fuselage sides. > Put the fuslage sides togther and hold the wings in position. > You will see what I mean. Hey, thanks for the tip. BTW, what thickness plastic did you use? Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:33:19 -0500 From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: This List - Air or Armor? Message-ID: <961231113212_1822172714@emout12.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-12-30 09:35:04 EST, you write: >Gott in Himmel!! Do you think the 210mm was a bigger piece? I wonder if >I should do my 1/35 210mm with the gaudy splinter scheme. Any details on >the colors used on those Rock Island guns? Also, do you know if the WWI >210mm used the wheel-shoes, or were they only "worn" in that OTHER war? Bob did a 21cm piece, it isn't in splinter but a scheme somewhat reminiscent of lozenge. . I believe the base color was feldgrau with a reddish brown, green, etc. I can get back to you after i talk to Bob as he mixes his own colors using testors enamels. His 2120 hs the steel roms with steel grousers that he scratched from plastic strip. Glen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:38:52 -0500 From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: This List - Air or Armor? Message-ID: <961231113213_1922835626@emout14.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-12-30 20:33:55 EST, you write: > So, when is it due? I'll let you know as son as I get it to the publisher, I'm about three months behind, but it was worth the wait because of the additionl refernces I was able to track down. Glen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 12:16:10 -0500 From: SHUSTAD@email.usps.gov To: "(u)WWI(a)PEASE1.SR.UNH.EDU" Subject: Re[2]: This List - Air or Armor? Message-ID: <0033000002083630000002*@MHS> About the 210mm artillery pieces; They *probably* used the same 3 paints/colors that many German infantrymen used to camouflage their steel helmets during the last 1 1/2 to 2 years of the war: These Humbrol enamel shades are close: Dark yellow ochre (Humbrol #63) (though a bit more yellow) Dark reddish brown (Humbrol #160) Dark green (Humbrol #30) From the photos I've seen of these the colors were usually applied in more of a random/'curvey' pattern on artillery pieces - rather than a lozenge or splinter type application. The base coat/color is almost certainly field gray (retained as a fourth camo color on some helmets by paintng around parts of the existing color with the new). (I collect these old German steel helmets, so I've seen quite a few). Steve H. (The Mad Norseman!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 96-12-30 09:35:04 EST, you write: >Gott in Himmel!! Do you think the 210mm was a bigger piece? I wonder if >I should do my 1/35 210mm with the gaudy splinter scheme. Any details on >the colors used on those Rock Island guns? Also, do you know if the WWI >210mm used the wheel-shoes, or were they only "worn" in that OTHER war? Bob did a 21cm piece, it isn't in splinter but a scheme somewhat reminiscent of lozenge. . I believe the base color was feldgrau with a reddish brown, green, etc. I can get back to you after i talk to Bob as he mixes his own colors using testors enamels. His 2120 hs the steel roms with steel grousers that he scratched from plastic strip. Glen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 14:16:20 -0500 From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Off Topic - F2A Buffalo Message-ID: <961231135342_1122611287@emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-12-31 00:32:17 EST, you write: > And now back to my Jasta 35B Buffalo..... >> >>Inquiring minds want to know more. What, pray tell, is this? >> >> >>Matt > >Just trying to keep some WWI content in this off-topic topic. According to the great WW I historian, Gerd Von Vingarten, this aircraft actually belonged to Jasta 85h, (Royal Hessian). Originally a home defense kampf einsitzer staffel formed by patriotic designers and interior decorators, it was redesignated as Jasta 85h in september 1918 and moved to the front. At the end of WW I it was disbanded. During 1944, it was reactivated with Buffaloes purchased from Finland in exchange for those infernal little Bf 1 oh whatevers.The garish unit markings of the staffel earned them the nickname of "Die Schlockstaffel". According to Gerd, the unit colors were generally a dark prussian blue fuselage and tail with personal emblems added to the pilots taste on the mythical assumption that they would improve their combat value. Wings were left in standard lozenge pattern. As an example, ex-shirt salesman Vfw Bruno Stachelschwein painted a green alligator on his fuselage and also emblazoned the breast pockets of his uniform with this heraldry. Oberleutnant Florian von der Billdt (also known as the "Fliegende Puffter") was the Staffel commander and, as such, insisted on his own personal decor: Lavender with chartreuse spiral bands and polka dots. Apparently the staffel engaged several American Piper Cub spotting aircraft over the Normandy beaches and was completely destroyed. The German Air Force never bothered to record the loss. Hopefully all of you know see the WW I connection and Ken has the correct answers as to what the F2A2's were actually painted. Profuse apologies to Greg VanWyngarden for blatently plagiarizing his schloarly work in the Stale Aerodroem Muddler. :) Glen (who obviuosly had WAY too much time on his hands today) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 21:30:11 +0100 (MET) From: knut.erik.hagen@login.eunet.no (Knut Erik Hagen) To: wwi Subject: German Seaplanes Message-ID: <199612312030.VAA01963@login.eunet.no> Gentlemen, I intend to build a model in 1997 of a L=FCbeck-Travem=FCnde F.4L seaplane= that Korvettenkapit=E4n Christiansen flew to Norway from Warnem=FCnde in 1919. After being flown by him and Norwegian pilots for spotting herring and whale beside passengers and mail flights, it was transfered to the Norwegian Navy with another aircraft of the type in 1920. As they were reliable and able to carry a decent load,=20 the Naval Air Arm used them for mail flights and torpedo trials until 1930. Span 16.7m, length 11.3m, top speed 140km/h with a 220hp Benz My references are: -Colour art from the inside cover of WS -Small drawing marked Marine No.1971 from See-Flugzeug-Versuchs-Kommando= 1918 -Pictures and descriptions from Norwegian sources There will probably never be a kit of this aircraft, but I am thinking about converting another German Seaplane. Since the factory built Friedrichshafen designs under license before marketing their own it could be based on one of their designs. Sierra lists Friedrichshafen FF.33E, Friedrichshafen FF.49C and Sablatnig= SF.5. Do someone know if one of these is close to the L=FCbeck-Travem=FCnde F.4L= =20 and/or references that I have overlooked? =20 At least Poland used L=FCbeck-Travem=FCnde F.4L for some time after WW1= beside Norway, maybe other countries used them as well. =20 TIA Knut Erik =20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:36:23 -0500 From: JimMaas@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Off Topic - F2A Buffalo -Finlandia! Message-ID: <961231163622_170673498@emout09.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-12-31 01:10:08 EST, you write: >Hey, if this is where the Buffalo roam, I would like to know if the Finnish >239's had the windows on the belly. Some day I am going to 'Finnish' a >Tamiya Buffalo. > > Yep. Later on it got painted over, but it's there. However, you should remove the two small oval frames in the rear section of the belly transparency. And, of course, do an entire new forward fuselage.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:42:38 -0500 From: JimMaas@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Off Topic - F2A Buffalo Message-ID: <961231164238_1621404455@emout04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-12-31 14:21:52 EST, you write: >According to the great WW I historian, Gerd Von Vingarten, this aircraft >actually belonged to Jasta 85h, (Royal Hessian). Originally a home defense >kampf einsitzer staffel formed by patriotic designers and interior >decorators, it was redesignated as Jasta 85h in september 1918 and moved to >the front. At the end of WW I it was disbanded. During 1944, it was >reactivated with Buffaloes purchased from Finland in exchange for those >infernal little Bf 1 oh whatevers.The garish unit markings of the staffel >earned them the nickname of "Die Schlockstaffel". According to Gerd, the >unit colors were generally a dark prussian blue fuselage and tail with >personal emblems added to the pilots taste on the mythical assumption that >they would improve their combat value. Wings were left in standard lozenge >pattern. As an example, ex-shirt salesman Vfw Bruno Stachelschwein painted a >green alligator on his fuselage and also emblazoned the breast pockets of his >uniform with this heraldry. I suddenly want to go out and buy Izod shirts...... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 16:43:07 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: List Member's Database Message-ID: <19961231.154448.13894.0.mbittner@juno.com> For the time being - until I can upgrade it - the List Member's Database is on "hold". If you're looking to traveling before the end of this month (which is when I'm guessing I'll have it upgraded), then take a warm blanket, and a full tank of gas. ;-) Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 17:41:55 -0500 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: No Subject Message-ID: <961231174155_1822219773@emout09.mail.aol.com> Pete, don't forget that much of the allies industrial advantage in WWI was due to the fact that the Royal Navy had successfully blockaded Germany and little got into Germany from outside the Reich. In those days, Mahan's theory on sea power was especially true. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 18:03:02 -0500 From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi Subject: Re: Saturday, 30 December 1916, Blessis, Paris & back again Message-ID: <199612312303.SAA01395@pease1.sr.unh.edu> >. Helen 'phoned me at hotel before I left & thanked >me for the flowers. Am terribly, terribly lonely for dear darling >Gertrude. What's wrong with this guy? Can't he see Helen is hot for him and darling Gert is blowing him of???? i'm starting to lose my patience with him. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 15:32:37 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Saturday, 30 December 1916, Blessis, Paris & back again Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Dec 1996, Mary-Ann/Michael wrote: > >. Helen 'phoned me at hotel before I left & thanked > >me for the flowers. Am terribly, terribly lonely for dear darling > >Gertrude. > > What's wrong with this guy? Can't he see Helen is hot for him and > darling Gert is blowing him of???? i'm starting to lose my patience with him. > Mike Muth > Wait a minute! I smell a Cad here.... *Perhaps* he's just stringing along plain ol' Helen, whilst simultaneously trying his luck with the voluptuous Gertrude! A ha-- the swine! (well, that's what *I* would do...). :^) Flowers, indeed! What is she to make of that? The rogue!.... Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "If you're not living Life on the edge, you're taking up too much room!" .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:17:08 -0800 From: Lawrence Dunn To: wwi Subject: Re: This List - Air or Armor? Message-ID: <32C9D734.415F@mail.idt.net> GRBroman@aol.com wrote: > I can get back to you after i talk to Bob as he mixes his own > colors using testors enamels. That would be swell. Thanks and happy gnu year. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 20:15:40 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Sunday, 31 December 1916, Plessis Message-ID: <32C9E4EC.63F5@host.dmsc.net> Last day of this grim year of conflict! God grant the year just coming will be much better--victory for the allies and peace for all. Fair day but windy and cloudy. Had 40 minute flight in 110 hp Bebe Nieuport in early a.m. Used all p.m. writing some of my new complete diary account of my experiences in the war. Felt tired. Letters from dear Mother, Dot Barrett, J.H. and Xmas cards from Patrina, her mother & Aunt Anna. No letters from darling Gerty so felt as lonely and disheartened as usual. Wrote her a long letter in the the evening. Turned in early, tired and lonely. ********************* from the diaries of E.C.C. Genet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 20:25:22 -0800 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Sunday, 31 December 1916, Plessis (2nd entry of the day) Message-ID: <32C9E732.6808@host.dmsc.net> (Genet's second entry for 31 Dec 16, and first entry in his new, expanded diary) At reserve camp of aviation (GDE), Plessis Belleville, France, waiting to be sent out to join our American Escadrille on the front. Stephen Bigelow and Edwin "Ted" Parsons are here with me for the same purpose. Plessis Belleville is just north of Paris--about 45 kilometers. Cloudy windy day. Went out for 40 minute flight in 110 hp baby Nieuport in early a.m. Found the wind bad but enjoyed the flight. Received letters from Jeanette H., Dot Barrett, dear little Mother and Christmas cards from Patrina Colis, her mother and cousin Annie Moore but Nothing from beloved Gertrude as usual. In consequence I feel mighty depressed and disheartened. Wrote a long letter to her and addressed it, as I have done for some time lately, in care of her aunt Mrs Curry Barlow, in Ossining. Hope it reaches her dear hands alright. Here I've been waiting for a letter or word from Darling Gerty since early last August. It's mighty discouraging and no mistake. What is the reason? I'd surely like to know. ********************* War Diary of Edmond Charles Clinton Genet, *Pilot Aviateur, Escadrille N-124, Franco-American Flying Corps* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:55:52 +0000 From: Bob Norgren To: wwi Subject: Re: Driven Nuts Message-ID: <32C96FC8.368C@ne.infi.net> Matt The question on colors is: "How should I know?" If I put an FS number on the sheet, somebody will say it's something else! Best to leave it vague and the modeler can do the research...I have enough problems just getting the plastic bit right. Happy New Year! Bob Sierra ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 20:24:14 +0000 From: Bob Norgren To: wwi Subject: Re: Driven Nuts Message-ID: <32C9766E.6315@ne.infi.net> Charles Hart wrote: > The danger here, to my mind, is that once someone sees a FS or Methuen > # affiliated with a particular color scheme for a plane, tank ship, etc., > regardless of the conflict, that number becomes gospel to at least one > member of the color police, probably the member that you encounter when you > drag your finished kit to the next contest. Charles hit the nut on the head: saying it is FS34022 rather than "dark green" will dispatch the color harpies to terrorize you. The next question is: How do they know what the correct color is? Here are three problems with being dogmatic about WWI colors: 1. Will the correct color please stand up. Anyone who has been around modern military aircraft or vehicles, as I was, soon finds out that each batch of paint (in some cases, each can) from a paint contractor made to FS specifications is of a different shade. Usually, it makes more sense to completely repaint the whole truck Air Force Blue than to touch up areas as they will invariably be different shades due to weathering, paint mixtures, etc. So how can anyone state the EXACT shade for a WWI color? It's ridiculous. Even if the paints were standardized, which they weren't, or even codified, which they weren't, random variations would cancel out any attempt to nail down the EXACT shade. 2. The FS system wasn't even developed until the late 1940s and then for US Government aircraft, vehicles, desks, buildings, etc. How can you apply this to the dopes of Austro-Hungarian flying machines of the 1914-1918 period? The FS system is not an all inclusive color system, but just a set of specifications for certain colors the US uses on its painted equipment. 3. Weathering changes and oxidizes paint finishes especially on aircraft sitting outside through all kinds of weather. Paints and dopes were field applied and field mixed depending on what was on hand, and were loosely based on any "regulations" from higher HQs. To a mechanic on an airfield in Northern Italy repainting a camouflage color, "dark green" was simply that. Modelers, unlike their artistic brethren in the fine arts, have a bad habit of wanting everything cut and dried and keyed to model paints, so all they have to do is take a laundry list of paint colors to the hobby shop and all will be fine. Like a lot of things in life, it ain't so... B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:32:00 -0600 From: Mark Shannon To: wwi Subject: Re: Currently building & Tamiya F-4 Message-ID: <32C9BE90.1C55@ix.netcom.com> Brian Nicklas wrote: > > I'm currently building the following: > Three quick items for display in the Smithsonian Museum Shops: > For Natural History Museum 2 Tamiya dinosaurs in 1/35, a > Brachiosaurus and a T-Rex (Almost done, next night or two). > For Air & Space Museum shop a Tamiya F-4D in 1/32. > And for Pete's sake, get it right! (couldn't resist, but I envy you the ability to work with the Smithsonian.) Happy New Year! -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com Remember that every cliche started out as a stroke of genius. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:34:55 -0600 From: Mark Shannon To: wwi Subject: Re: Nieuport request Message-ID: <32C9BF3F.6129@ix.netcom.com> mbittner@juno.com wrote: > > In going through some Scale Models, I noticed that they > ran a series called Nieuport Classics. I have the Nie.17 > and Nie.28 ones. I was wondering if someone can give > me what the other parts are, which Nieuports are covered, > and which magazines they're in. TIA! > > Matt > mbittner@juno.com Matt, The series was fairly complete. In addition to the ones you have, I have the Nieu. 11, 12, and the combo 17bis-24-27 articles. Let me know your address again and I'll see what I turn up on them. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com Remember that every cliche started out as a stroke of genius. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 22:29:36 EST From: mbittner@juno.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Driven Nuts Message-ID: <19961231.213024.13486.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 31 Dec 1996 19:54:50 -0500 Bob Norgren writes: > The question on colors is: "How should I know?" If I put an FS > number on the sheet, somebody will say it's something else! Best > to leave it vague and the modeler can do the research...I have > enough problems just getting the plastic bit right. Ah, great idea, and I completely understand. The reason why we have the Uncle Ray type. > Happy New Year! The same to you, and the entire list!! May this year be *more* prolific than the last. And may company x bring out a correct 1/72nd Fokker Dr.I, Albatros D.III, Nieuport 17, etc. etc. etc. Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Dec 96 20:32:28 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[3]: This List - Air or Armor? Message-ID: <9611318520.AA852093620@mx.Ricochet.net> Steve, Does Revell-Germany put out the set of "rubber"/urethane or ???? late-war Germany infantry, and if so, are any of the NCOs armed w/ Bergman smgs? Also, how do you get enamels to stick to that stuff? Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re[2]: This List - Air or Armor? Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 12/31/96 9:19 AM About the 210mm artillery pieces; They *probably* used the same 3 paints/colors that many German infantrymen used to camouflage their steel helmets during the last 1 1/2 to 2 years of the war: These Humbrol enamel shades are close: Dark yellow ochre (Humbrol #63) (though a bit more yellow) Dark reddish brown (Humbrol #160) Dark green (Humbrol #30) From the photos I've seen of these the colors were usually applied in more of a random/'curvey' pattern on artillery pieces - rather than a lozenge or splinter type application. The base coat/color is almost certainly field gray (retained as a fourth camo color on some helmets by paintng around parts of the existing color with the new). (I collect these old German steel helmets, so I've seen quite a few). Steve H. (The Mad Norseman!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 96-12-30 09:35:04 EST, you write: >Gott in Himmel!! Do you think the 210mm was a bigger piece? I wonder if >I should do my 1/35 210mm with the gaudy splinter scheme. Any details on >the colors used on those Rock Island guns? Also, do you know if the WWI >210mm used the wheel-shoes, or were they only "worn" in that OTHER war? Bob did a 21cm piece, it isn't in splinter but a scheme somewhat reminiscent of lozenge. . I believe the base color was feldgrau with a reddish brown, green, etc. I can get back to you after i talk to Bob as he mixes his own colors using testors enamels. His 2120 hs the steel roms with steel grousers that he scratched from plastic strip. Glen ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 380 *********************