WWI Digest 99 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Latest FSM by Kevin Witte 2) Re: Latest FSM by JimMaas@aol.com 3) List Activity - Slow? by Charles Stephanian 4) See you next week by "Randy J. Ray" 5) Re: 2 Questions by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 6) Re: Latest FSM by "August T. Horvath" 7) Sperry Messenger by "S.M. Head" 8) RE: AWM visit by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 9) Re: Where are we all? by Magne Oevregaard 10) Where are we? by Adrian Webster 11) Re: Latest FSM by crow@cp.duluth.mn.us (Crofoot) 12) Re: 2 Questions by aew (Allan Wright) 13) Re: Sperry Messenger by robj@speechsys.com 14) Re: Sperry Messenger by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 15) 1/48 trend (was Re[2]: Latest FSM) by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 16) Bill Shatzer Lost! by aew (Allan Wright) 17) Re: Latest FSM by bciciora@pitneysoft.com (Bill Ciciora) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:11:45 -0500 (GMT-0500) From: Kevin Witte To: wwi Subject: Re: Latest FSM Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Matt Bittner wrote: > Well, if you buy FSM for the WWI content, don't bother. Save your > money, and buy something else. Conversely, if you have broader interests in scale modeling, pick up a copy. As usual, it's worth it. Heck, I'd buy a copy for the ads alone! > Another sad fact - except for the B-25 article, most other things are > getting large. Most evident is the Reader Gallery: the smallest > scale there is 1/48th. Is 1/72nd dying out? Is this partly due to > the ageing of the modeling fraternity? Such a shame. I think the writing on that wall has been there for quite some time. I don't know about where you live, but at the east coast contests I attend, 1/48 scale a/c entries nearly always outnumber, and more often than not outclass, their 1/72 scale bretheren. At least it's been that way for as long as I've been going to contests (about seven years now). And I'm not sure this shift has much to do with the failing eyesight of aging modelers. I'm 30 now, and when I was a kid (60's & 70's) the best new a/c kits from Monogram were 1/48. I can still remember building (and blowing up, and building...) that F4U Corsair with retracting landing gear and folding wings. I think a lot of a/c modelers 20-40 cut their teeth on 1/48th. I believe that history, coupled with the fact that the best new a/c kits and aftermarket doo-dads for a decade or more now have been rendered in 1/48 or larger has resulted in the shift from 1/72 to the larger scales. Of course, there is no shortage of 1/72 scale a/c kits, old and new, out there. It's just that the major manufacturers seem to focus most of their new energy on 1/48 scale and larger scales, likely because that's what the mainstream market dictates. Now, as for whether or not this shift is "sad" or "a shame" depends entirely on your own perspective. If you *only* care about 1/72 a/c kits, and especially if you *only* care about 1/72 WWI a/c kits, then I can understand how the move to larger scales might seem frightening to you. You must realize however that there is no shortage of folks out here who *actually prefer* building 1/48 scale kits and who are sincerely joyful that manufacturers are paying so much attention to their wants and desires of late. Of course, fans of 1/72 a/c kits, especially 1/72 WWI a/c kits, can rejoice in the knowledge that the catolog of available subjects in their favorite scale *far* surpasses that of any other scale. And I'm sure companies like Pegasus will continue to churn out new kits to satisfy the needs of such modelers. As someone who appreciates modeling craftsmanship regardless of scale or subject matter, I say more power to ya! And if you really want to see more pictures of 1/72 a/c in the Readers' Gallery in FSM, then all you need to do is take some pictures of your own models and send 'em in! They can't print what they don't get... Kev ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 18:33:44 -0400 From: JimMaas@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Latest FSM Message-ID: <960416183342_273487684@emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-04-16 18:24:07 EDT, you write: > It's just that the major manufacturers seem >to focus most of their new energy on 1/48 scale and larger scales, likely >because that's what the mainstream market dictates. > > Another factor here is financial. A bigger kit allows a bigger profit margin per item. It isn't as cost-productive for Tamiya to do a 1/72nd kit as it is to do a 1/48 kit. Of course, a big 1/72 kit allows a reasonable return (thus the B-70, KC-135, etc.) On the other hand, there's a practicality factor. Obviously, if a 1/48 kit allows a better margin, then 1/32 or 1/24 is even better. However, we consumers still try to maintain the illusion that we're gonna _build_ all these puppies someday, and so we're not going to buy dozens of 1/24 kits (because we know we won't have room for them). It seems like the 'fickle finger of economics' is pointing 1/48 as the best compromise at this time. Unfortunately, except for Eduard, this still isn't translating into a lot of 1/48 World War I kits! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:38:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Stephanian To: wwi Subject: List Activity - Slow? Message-ID: Since last week I've noticed a distinct drop in activity on this list (I'm getting about 1/4 of what I was getting about a week ago). Is there something wrong with my mail or is this just a lull (while evryone is working on the Eduard Albatros) ? Charles Stephanian csteph@itsa.ucsf.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:44:20 -0600 From: "Randy J. Ray" To: wwi Subject: See you next week Message-ID: Just enabled procmail to file my mail away. I'll leave for DC tomorrow, then up to Aberdeen for the armor show on Friday and Saturday. Catch up with you guys when I get back. Randy -- ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:32:23 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi Subject: Re: 2 Questions Message-ID: <199604162332.TAA27452@ns1.ptd.net> >I > > > >>1) Se5a Schweinhund - All red. What was the undersurface color? Red or >> doped linen? Any top wing adornment besides roundels? >> Any other info would be appreciated. >> > For what it's worth, there's some info on Schweinhund in the book "High in the Empty Blue" by Alex Revell. It's a history of 56 Squadron in WWI. According to him, Duncan Grinnell-Milne, the authord of Wind in the Wires, named his plane Schweinhund during the war. After the war, he had the fuselage and fin of the plane painted bright red. The color plate in the book shows the plane that way, with PC-10 on the upper portion of the wings, and clear doped linen underneath. The wheel covers are shown as white. A "W" in white appears aft of the roundel on the side of the fuselage. 2 white marks are just before the tailplane on the fuselage and sort of look like /\. A photo appears in the book on p. 390. The undersurface of the wings are pretty clearly doped linen. The red paint had covered-up the white outside ring on the fuselage roundel. the serial # C1149 is also covered by the red paint. He flew the plaane to Le Hameau on Jan. 29, 1919. After delivering the plane, Grinnel-Milne cut out that portion of the panel with the name "Schweihund" and kept it as a souvenir. I hope this helps and isn't repetitious. Mike Muth > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 21:23:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "August T. Horvath" To: wwi Subject: Re: Latest FSM Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Matt Bittner wrote: > scale there is 1/48th. Is 1/72nd dying out? Is this partly due to > the ageing of the modeling fraternity? Such a shame. > > Note that this in *no* way slams builders of bigger scales. It's > just an observation on my part. But maybe a premature one? We all know that scales pass in and out of fashion, as does the hobby itself, but I see little evidence that 1/72 is on the wane. In kits, there's as much new-release action in 1/72 as in 1/48, and no other scale touches the variety available. Certainly a lot better than in the 1970s. I think it may just be that 1/48 really suffered for a while 5 or 10 years ago, when nothing much new happened in that scale. Now 48th is having a resurgence so the 72nd activity looks weak by comparison, even with umpteen new releases a year. Myself, I'm especially amazed at the WWI action in 1/72 considering that 1/48 is really the more natural scale for WWI. (By "natural" I mean only that most classes of subject are scaled such that the average model builds to 6"-12" in size, averaging about 8". There is, of course, nothing in the laws of nature against building smaller scale models, although some of us may have an unnatural attraction to them and some builders achieve supernatural results with them.) The two exceptions are the sad disappearance of 1/72-1/76 armor and the admitted bias toward 1/48 in super detail sets. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- August Horvath horvath@hulaw1.harvard.edu Harvard Law School ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 02:13:14 -0400 From: "S.M. Head" To: wwi Subject: Sperry Messenger Message-ID: <9604170120.aa21278@mail.iapc.net> Hi all! Need info about the Sperry Messenger: First, I know this aircraft isn't a WWI warbird with guns and bombs and funky camouflage to boot, but it's a stringbag none the less. I'm looking for some decent reference material, specifically drawings of the interior and exterior details (building the Lone Star Models 1/48 vac). Any ideas? Anyone with plans and a xerox and the desire to make a few bucks off me? Thanks! Scott Head Statement- "The internet is like an unending tree of sprue, linking one component to the next..." -- Newsgroup post Reply: "That's stretching it." -- Shot Cadet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 23:51:48 -0700 From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: RE: AWM visit Message-ID: <199604170651.XAA03731@bing.ncw.net> On 04/16, Shane wrote: >>.BTW, aren't you somewhere near Brisbane? >Nah, he's in Newcastle, south of the border, down with the rest of the >Mexicans ;-) Ahhhh, so Mick is a Southern Australian. Must explain the funny accent that comes thru on his messages... >I, OTOH, am in Brisbane. There's a Hard Rock Cafe in Brisbane that's supposed to be opening up in a month or two. Once it's open ,you should go there and ask for a guy who works there known as Wild Bill, from America. He's a former resident of Leavenworth WA (pop. now 1,199 as a result) with whom I have downed many pints of ale. They don't call him Wild Bill for nothing....Just imagine Robin Williams on speed......... >>That's where >>we'd be flying into; our final destination is a town about two hours >drive >>from there. > >This REALLY piques my curiosity, since I was born in a town 2 hours drive >away. Which one? Gympie, or possibly Dagum, QLD (still not sure who'll we'll be staying with) Ever heard of it? >Give the tax man hell - we'd like to see you down under. And though I >may not have the suave debonair good looks and incredible erudition of >THE Mick Fauchon, I'd be happy to meet a fellow list member and >enthusiast, any time. If we make it, you'll be among the first to know.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:50:35 +0200 From: Magne Oevregaard To: wwi Subject: Re: Where are we all? Message-ID: <3174A2CA.41C67EA6@tananger.geco-prakla.slb.com> KENNETH L HAGERUP wrote: > Arctic Circle again. Is there much published history of Norway's > participation in WWII? My father served aboard the Ula (ex-RN submarine). Ken There are many publications on Norway's participation in WWII, but much of it is in Norwegian. A great place to search for publications in Norway, is the web site: http://www.bibsys.no . (also publications on WWI) Cheers Magne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:35:08 +1000 (EST) From: Adrian Webster To: wwi Subject: Where are we? Message-ID: Hello All just to set the record straight; Adrian D. Webster Melbourne Victoria Australia ozwedge@connexus.apana.org.au I've been back into modelling for about 5 years after a 10 year break (in the Army). Although my interests are mainly mil acft in the "Scale of Kings", I'm interested in almost anything unusual e.g. I've just built my first 1/72 biplane in ...umm...20+ years ;-) although I've been lurking here for about 2 months its not hard to feel in common company when reading of other's experiences in modelling. Regards. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 07:34:34 -0500 From: crow@cp.duluth.mn.us (Crofoot) To: wwi Subject: Re: Latest FSM Message-ID: <199604171234.HAA10875@CP.Duluth.MN.US> If any of you are into figures you can verify that the trend seems to be toward bigger. Fifteen years ago, about all that you could find being entered in contests were 54mm figures. These are now an endangered species and almost all are those 120mm giants. Tim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:22:50 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: 2 Questions Message-ID: <199604171322.JAA23564@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > >>1) Se5a Schweinhund - All red. What was the undersurface color? Red or > >> doped linen? Any top wing adornment besides roundels? > >> Any other info would be appreciated. > >> > > For what it's worth, there's some info on Schweinhund in the book > "High in the Empty Blue" by Alex Revell. It's a history of 56 Squadron in > WWI. According to him, Duncan Grinnell-Milne, the authord of Wind in the > Wires, named his plane Schweinhund during the war. After the war, he had the > fuselage and fin of the plane painted bright red. The color plate in the > book shows the plane that way, with PC-10 on the upper portion of the wings, > and clear doped linen underneath. The wheel covers are shown as white. A "W" > in white appears aft of the roundel on the side of the fuselage. 2 white > marks are just before the tailplane on the fuselage and sort of look like /\. > A photo appears in the book on p. 390. The undersurface of the wings > are pretty clearly doped linen. The red paint had covered-up the white > outside ring on the fuselage roundel. the serial # C1149 is also covered by > the red paint. He flew the plaane to Le Hameau on Jan. 29, 1919. After > delivering the plane, Grinnel-Milne cut out that portion of the panel with > the name "Schweihund" and kept it as a souvenir. > I hope this helps and isn't repetitious. > Mike Muth Perfect! Thanks a lot! -Al ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 08:59:12 +0000 From: robj@speechsys.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Sperry Messenger Message-ID: <9604170855.aa28446@scosysv.speechsys.com> Have you tried the Smithsonian for Sperry Messenger info? I seem to remember something in the old Annals of Flight series. Their archives at the Gerber facility in Silver Hill also have lots of material. They will research for you (for a fee). --Rob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:53:39 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Sperry Messenger Message-ID: Scott has written: >Need info about the Sperry Messenger: > >First, I know this aircraft isn't a WWI warbird with guns and bombs and >funky camouflage to boot, but it's a stringbag none the less. I'm looking >for some decent reference material, specifically drawings of the interior >and exterior details (building the Lone Star Models 1/48 vac). Any ideas? >Anyone with plans and a xerox and the desire to make a few bucks off me? >Thanks! A number of years ago the journal World War One Aeroplanes did a series of articles on the Sperry Messenger in support of someone's project to construct a replica of the aircraft. You might want to write to them and see about obtaining back issues of the journal with the relevant articles. The address is: World War One Aeroplanes 15 Crescent Road Poughkeepsie, N.Y. 12601-4490 Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 09:27:14 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: 1/48 trend (was Re[2]: Latest FSM) Message-ID: <9603178297.AA829758484@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> On Tue, 16 Apr 1996, Matt Bittner wrote: > scale there is 1/48th. Is 1/72nd dying out? Is this partly due to > the ageing of the modeling fraternity? Such a shame. > > Note that this in *no* way slams builders of bigger scales. It's > just an observation on my part. No offense taken. Another way to look at it is that as the technology has improved, it has become possible to include much more detail in the kit itself than was previously possible. Multimedia has really changed things; plus there are now incredible injection molded kits from companies like Tamiya and Accurate. That type of detail would be lost on 1/72 models so they have to go with the bigger scales to include it. Remember the Airfix rivets... that's a place where the "detail" was forced onto the kit although it wasn't appropriate in the small scale. Don't ask me where those fabulous fists of steel would belong! So modellers are really demanding more detail and the companies are happy enough to provide the kits at that larger scale with a heftier price tag to boot. As for WWI stuff, I think that the companies for the most part are still providing the mainstream stuff. Lots of P51's and Bf109's out there. I would be very surprised if Tamiya doesn't come out with a Bf109; their current 1/48 offerings have been *VERY* mainstream. WWI is not the big seller that the slicker monoplane is. Then we have companies that have interesting agendas: Classic Airframe doing 'tweeners (between the wars stuff) which is really right for me. Plus they're doing multimedia to the extreme! They're using brass, white metal, resin, vac (BP Defiant has vac canopies, right? I don't remember), and injection molding. And they are charging gourmet prices because A) nobody else has the kit they offer B) people will pay the price for all the goochies. Anyway, there are a lot of WWI things out there; its just a matter of waiting..... finding -- and paying. The mainstream companies though, will continue to provide mainstream kits and that usually doesn't include WWI stuff. ----Stephen (long winded) Tontoni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:36:52 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Bill Shatzer Lost! Message-ID: <199604171736.NAA25137@pease1.sr.unh.edu> This is just a message to everyone that Bill Shatzer's e-mail address has been bouncing list messages for the past few days. I've been forced to remove him from the list until I hear from him. If you know him let him know that his mail account is toast. Thanks, Al ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Apr 96 12:40:49 EDT From: bciciora@pitneysoft.com (Bill Ciciora) To: wwi Subject: Re: Latest FSM Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Apr 1996 12:31:12 Matt wrote: >Another sad fact - except for the B-25 article, most other things are >getting large. Most evident is the Reader Gallery: the smallest >scale there is 1/48th. Is 1/72nd dying out? Is this partly due to >the ageing of the modeling fraternity? Such a shame. For those of us who *like* 1/48, we consider this neither sad nor a shame, but validation of our chosen scale. We've been downtrodden so long, now it's our turn to be up. I would agree that it's partially due to the median age of modelers sliding up in years, but also due to the pricing structure of today's models. I remember paying $0.50 per unit for 1/72 Revell WWI kits, when 1/48 kits seemed very expensive ($2.00 and up). In other words, I could build 4-5 kits in 1/72 for the price of a 1/48 kit. Nowadays, the prices are much closer together. If I'm going to pay $20 for a kit, I want something with some heft, some mass -- you get the idea. For those of you still young and nimble enough to model in 1/72 (for now), I leave you with the inscription on the tombstone of the Black Prince: "As you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so shall you be." Bill Ciciora ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 99 ********************