WWI Digest 77 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Windsock back issues by "Randy J. Ray" 2) Re: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III by bciciora@pitneysoft.com (Bill Ciciora) 3) Re: Out of Scale SaLE- VEEDAY/SIERRA by michel.lefort@ping.be (Michel LEFORT) 4) Re: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III by "Matt Bittner" 5) Re: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III by "Randy J. Ray" 6) Re[2]: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III by "STEVE HUSTAD" 7) Seattle IPMS Local by Erik Pilawskii 8) Re: Seattle IPMS Local by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 9) Kits For Sale by larmin@ix.netcom.com (Larry Armin ) 10) Re: Re[2]: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 11) Re: Re[2]: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III by Erik Pilawskii 12) Re: Out of Scale SaLE- VEEDAY/SIERRA by amadon@pcix.com (Gerald P. McOsker) 13) Thanks (Q: Glenco PfalzD.III) by Hirohisa Ozaki 14) SSW by Jose Valenciano 15) Re: 1/1 Albatros logo by Jose Valenciano 16) Re: 1/1 Albatros logo by Mathoo@aol.com 17) Re: 1/1 Albatros logo by Kevin Witte 18) Re: Kits For Sale by aew (Allan Wright) 19) Re: Conversions, was Q: Glenco PfalzD.III by "Matt Bittner" 20) Re: Re[2]: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III by "Matt Bittner" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 12:53:29 -0700 From: "Randy J. Ray" To: wwi Subject: Windsock back issues Message-ID: Anyone know a mail-order house that sells back issues of Windsock, with a good selection? I am looking to get the three issues that have data on the Ilya Muromets (6.3, 6.4, and 6.5). Randy -- ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 14:21:08 EST From: bciciora@pitneysoft.com (Bill Ciciora) To: wwi Subject: Re: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Mar 96 22:06:02 JST, Hirohisa Ozaki wrote: > Glenco kit has no side fearing of engine and original Aurora box arts > which I had seen in the book is same style, no side fearings. > Q: Did Pfalz D.III has a version which no side fearings of engine? At the risk of getting a terminal case of Advanced Modeller's Syndrome, I've been kitbashing and making quite a few extra parts for this kit. >From a failed Glencoe Albatros D.III, I took a Dremel to the fuselage and cut engine fairings for the Pfalz. Looks great. From stretched sprue I've made a correct exhaust manifold; the kit includes a D.IIIa exhaust. I've also stolen the intake manifold and underwing radiator from the failed Albatros and sanded to size for the Pfalz. I've done a floorboard from more Albatros fuselage, and a few other odds and ends from sprue. I suppose I could have bought the detail kit from Tom's Modelworks, but I probably wouldn't have learned so much about detailing. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 20:24:06 GMT From: michel.lefort@ping.be (Michel LEFORT) To: wwi Subject: Re: Out of Scale SaLE- VEEDAY/SIERRA Message-ID: <31585236.7257068@relay.ping.be> On Tue, 26 Mar 1996 06:15:50 -0500, you wrote: >GREETINGS ALL- yes my wife does say that I shout- >Continuing in my effort to reduce the horrific numbers of kits that I will >never build. [BTW- after these posts I am going to post to >rec.models.scale, then KCC Collectors and then Scale Modeler.] > I would be interested in some models, but you did not mention the scale. Is it 1/48 or 1/72? Regards. ================================================================= Michel Lefort - Braine-l'Alleud, Belgium http://www.ping.be/~ping1076 A bus station is a place where the bus starts. A train station is a place where the train starts. Why do they insist on putting a workstation on my desk? I wonder... ================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 14:47:19 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III Message-ID: <199603261448.OAA00461@cso.com> On 26 Mar 96 at 15:10, Bill Ciciora typed diligantly: > I suppose I could have bought the detail kit from Tom's Modelworks, > but I probably wouldn't have learned so much about detailing. This has gotten me thinking, especially in light of the contest this past Saturday. There was an Hs 129 that an individual bought the Aeromaster update set for, then proceeded to put that model in the "conversion" section. I *do* think it's great that all this aftermarket stuff is out there, but at the same time, I don't like the fact that it has made some modelers "lazy". Hey, if I'm building something out of my genre (i.e., not WW1 or 1/72nd armor), I would rather buy an aftermarket set than put all that energy in scratching things. However, as Bill said, you tend not to learn things about detailing. For example, take the Roland I'm (supposedly) working on. There are no specific aftermarket sets for it, so that's out of the question. Not only did I *not* use the cockpit parts that come with the kit (they're good, just not accurate), but I had to scratch practically the entire inside. Sure, I used a Tom's throttle, and the "handle" portion of the control column, but that's it! I now know (basically) how the plane went together by scratching the interior. How many "WW2 people" know this feeling, especially with all the aftermarket stuff out there? How many of "tomorrow" modelers will know right off the bat that a hot blade, or iron, is used to "flatten" and "buldge" tires? As I said, if it's out of my genre, I'm the first to buy an aftermarket set. Sure, they're nice, and make the job easier, but you're losing some thrill in building. Matt -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Matthew Bittner O- WW1 Modeler, ecto subscriber meba@cso.com PowerBuilder developer; Omaha, Nebraska Loreena McKennitt; Jewel; suddenly, tammy!; jehova waitresses Disclaimer: opinions expressed by me are mine, mine, mine! "Some people can tell what time it is by looking at the sun. But I have never been able to make out the numbers." - Anonymous -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 14:06:37 -0700 From: "Randy J. Ray" To: wwi Subject: Re: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III Message-ID: > > This has gotten me thinking, especially in light of the contest this > past Saturday. There was an Hs 129 that an individual bought the > Aeromaster update set for, then proceeded to put that model in the > "conversion" section. > Herein lies the problem-- that's not a conversion. Period. Doesn't make a significant change to the version of the subject provided in the kit. IPMS has been wrestling with kitbashing vs. conversions. People like Tony Englehart of A.E.F. Designs often get burned in conversion categories by their own products! I've seen Tony spend 6 months on an IDF turret, then cast it and sell it. At the next Nats, he competes against his own product, and gets beaten by presentation (we can't convince him to put more work into his bases). Mind you, the fellow who beats him just shelled out some $$$ for the resin turret, vs. Tony's 6 months of scratchbuilding. I believe that the conversions category should be for those who did the effort themselves, and kitbashes belong in the general categories. What's the diff in buying a conversion to make a different Nieuport, versus buying an interior kit? Nada, and the two should compete against each other. Randy -- ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 1996 15:57:15 GMT From: "STEVE HUSTAD" To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III Message-ID: I agree with Randy & Matt. That Hs 129 model *WAS* entered as a conversion, though it was only using an aftermarket detail set. It was consequently judged with 1/72 scale multi-engine entries, though it remained where it sat on the table. A couple others went the same way. Some entrants don't understand the diffence between detailed vs. converted. And if a conversion, we say it cannot be an aftermarket conversion kit, but must be the work of the modeler - otherwise it goes into the 'detailed' catagories. We had to 'collapse' the 1/72 & 1/48 "conversion/scratchbuilt/vacform" catagories into one because of lack of entries in those catagories. Dosen't anyone convert/scratch/vac anymore? This is the policy at KC-Con contests. Steve H. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This has gotten me thinking, especially in light of the contest this > past Saturday. There was an Hs 129 that an individual bought the > Aeromaster update set for, then proceeded to put that model in the > "conversion" section. Herein lies the problem-- that's not a conversion. Period. Doesn't make a significant change to the version of the subject provided in the kit. IPMS has been wrestling with kitbashing vs. conversions. People like Tony Englehart of A.E.F. Designs often get burned in conversion categories by their own products! I've seen Tony spend 6 months on an IDF turret, then cast it and sell it. At the next Nats, he competes against his own product, and gets beaten by presentation (we can't convince him to put more work into his bases). Mind you, the fellow who beats him just shelled out some $$$ for the resin turret, vs. Tony's 6 months of scratchbuilding. I believe that the conversions category should be for those who did the effort themselves, and kitbashes belong in the general categories. What's the diff in buying a conversion to make a different Nieuport, versus buying an interior kit? Nada, and the two should compete against each other. Randy -- ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 14:10:12 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: ww1 mailer Subject: Seattle IPMS Local Message-ID: Greetings All, Well, in talking to Mike Franklin (attempting to meet again!), we've decided that it might be a jolly rip to have any/everyone who can attend the IMPS meet here in Seattle this Saturday meet as a group for dinner! Sound a plan, chaps? Might I inquire-- who'll be planning to attend, anyway? Shall we all meet? Please send an e-mail to Mike or I to rsvp. Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "The comments previous of our Right Honourable colleague The Chancellor of the Exchequer are not to be brushed aside lightly-- they are to be thrown down with great force!...." A.T.Magnuson, M.P. .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 96 14:56:55 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re: Seattle IPMS Local Message-ID: <9602268278.AA827881094@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> Greetings All, Well, in talking to Mike Franklin (attempting to meet again!), we've decided that it might be a jolly rip to have any/everyone who can attend the IMPS meet here in Seattle this Saturday meet as a group for dinner! Sound a plan, chaps? Might I inquire-- who'll be planning to attend, anyway? Shall we all meet? Please send an e-mail to Mike or I to rsvp. Cheers, Erik I'll be there; afraid that I won't have any WWI stuff to show this year unfortunately. See you then --- Stephen Tontoni stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu tontoni@halcyon.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 15:44:22 -0800 From: larmin@ix.netcom.com (Larry Armin ) To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu.I.have.some.50.or.so.1/72nd.scale.WWI.aircraft.kits.for.sale.If Subject: Kits For Sale Message-ID: <199603262344.PAA08502@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> you'd like a list e-mailed to you, please e-mail me directly, rather than posting to the group. Prices and shipping/handling are all on the document. (Word for Windows 7.0 format). Larry Armin, Aurora, CO ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 15:49:41 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III Message-ID: <199603262349.AA11410@ednet1.orednet.org> Steve H. wrote: > I agree with Randy & Matt. > > That Hs 129 model *WAS* entered as a conversion, though it was only > using an aftermarket detail set. It was consequently judged with 1/72 > scale multi-engine entries, though it remained where it sat on the > table. A couple others went the same way. > Some entrants don't understand the diffence between detailed vs. > converted. And if a conversion, we say it cannot be an aftermarket > conversion kit, but must be the work of the modeler - otherwise it > goes into the 'detailed' catagories. Well, just to stir the pot a bit, I'd enquire, 'why'? As I understand it, a conversion is just that, a conversion, and exactly -where- you get the parts to do the converstion is irrelevant. So whether I scratch build a set of Merlin engines or cut 'em off a Lancaster, or buy an aftermarket set of Merlins and props; if I stick 'em on my Beaufighter kit to turn it into a Mk II, I've done a converstion and I'm in the conversion catagory, no? I might not -win- much with such a raggedy ass conversion but it -is- a conversion under the IPMS rules as I read 'em. But, with that being said, a detail set (or even scratch-built) details does not a conversion make. It's gotta be a significant change of mark or model to constitute a conversion. Query: would an -accurate- Glencoe Albatros qualify as a converstion? :-) Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - - Cave ab homine unius libri! - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 16:04:44 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re[2]: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Mar 1996, Bill Shatzer wrote: > conversion catagory, no? I might not -win- much with such a raggedy > ass conversion but it -is- a conversion under the IPMS rules as I > read 'em. Hmmmm. I'd have to agree, there. > > Query: would an -accurate- > Glencoe Albatros qualify as a converstion? :-) > Perhaps. But an accurate Airfix Dr.I would be OVER-qualified....(!) Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "The comments previous of our Right Honourable colleague The Chancellor of the Exchequer are not to be brushed aside lightly-- they are to be thrown down with great force!...." A.T.Magnuson, M.P. .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 20:54:56 -0500 From: amadon@pcix.com (Gerald P. McOsker) To: wwi Subject: Re: Out of Scale SaLE- VEEDAY/SIERRA Message-ID: M. LeFort ecrit- >I would be interested in some models, but you did not mention the >scale. Is it 1/48 or 1/72? >Regards. All 1/72- I'm too old to see in that scale. Gerry Gerry McOsker- Newport Rhode Island. "When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 96 13:17:38 JST From: Hirohisa Ozaki To: wwi Subject: Thanks (Q: Glenco PfalzD.III) Message-ID: <9603270417.AA09220@sun01.miln.mei.co.jp> Hello everione. I thank to all of them reply promptly. >>>>> robj@speechsys.com writes: robj> Fully faired engines tended to overheat, so, in the field, panels robj> were frequenbtly removed. This is probably why the Glencoe Pfalz robj> lacks the side panels of the cowling. My understanding : Pfalz D.III did not has "no side fearing" version. But it was removed for keep off engine overheat in the field. So Pfalz D.III frequently flew with no engine fearing panels. >>>>> Bill Ciciora writes: Bill>At the risk of getting a terminal case of Advanced Modeller's Syndrome, Bill>I've been kitbashing and making quite a few extra parts for this kit. Bill> Bill>From a failed Glencoe Albatros D.III, I took a Dremel to the fuselage Bill>and cut engine fairings for the Pfalz. Looks great. From stretched Bill>sprue I've made a correct exhaust manifold; the kit includes a D.IIIa Bill>exhaust. I've also stolen the intake manifold and underwing radiator Bill>from the failed Albatros and sanded to size for the Pfalz. I've done Bill>a floorboard from more Albatros fuselage, and a few other odds and ends Bill>from sprue. Thank you, Bill. This is of much help for me. BTW, I am at a loss that the discussion about conversion is started. I really do not know about fearing panels and I want to know only why that robj - Sorry, But I do not know your name - taught to me. >>>>> "Matt Bittner" writes: Matt>As I said, if it's out of my genre, I'm the first to buy an Matt>aftermarket set. Sure, they're nice, and make the job easier, but Matt>you're losing some thrill in building. I agree with Matt. But it is not rovved a pleasure in model building. Because using aftermarket set is required some conversions. Other reason, if I build same 2 kit, I use aftermarket set for one, and I build another one with scratch details or straight-from-the-box. Gerry said nice French expression ago, "Chacun a son gout". Gerry>It is an old French expression meaning- each to his own taste- or Gerry>whatever turnss you on- or everyone is entitled to his/her own Gerry>opinion. Cheers! --Hiro. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:07:53 +0800 (HKT) From: Jose Valenciano To: wwi Subject: SSW Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Mar 1996, Thomas Eisenhour wrote: > Thanks for the detailed and excellent description. I eagerly anticipate > the next exciting chapter in the saga of "Vicarious Modeling"! > > --Tom You're welcome. Bye the way, the prop looks really neat and I can't wait to mount it. Tom, I tried to mail this to you directly but it didn't get to you. Is your server down? I don't think that's the reason. Could you email me your email address so for my collection? As soon as you do I'll try emailing you directly again. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:10:31 +0800 (HKT) From: Jose Valenciano To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: 1/1 Albatros logo Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Mar 1996, Brian Nicklas wrote: > I know Americal/Gryphon sold a 1/1 scale Albatros logo > a while back. I understand it is no longer available. > Would anyone on the list (or off list if you can vouch > for them...) be interested in a new printing of the logo? I'd be interested, but it also depends on the price. A Gotha logo would be neat as well. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 02:32:47 -0500 From: Mathoo@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/1 Albatros logo Message-ID: <960327023246_455947253@mail04> If you are lucky enough to own the old Smithsonian book on the Alabtros there is a 1/1 scale logo in the back. That is to say the three parts required to make a screen printing of the logo! Better yet, there is no copyright on them. The books states that they are there for future readers to use if need be. Cool! It would make a great T-shirt. Thought about it myself a few times. Matthew Burchette Seattle IPMS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 11:12:07 -0500 (GMT-0500) From: Kevin Witte To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/1 Albatros logo Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Mar 1996 Mathoo@aol.com wrote: > If you are lucky enough to own the old Smithsonian book on the Alabtros there > is a 1/1 scale logo in the back. That is to say the three parts required to > make a screen printing of the logo! Better yet, there is no copyright on > them. The books states that they are there for future readers to use if need > be. Cool! It would make a great T-shirt. Thought about it myself a few times. This book is flat out the best (and cheapest!) reference I have ever acquired. This thing is *crammed* with details about its subject, and is well-written to boot. It's not perfect. For example, the print-screened lozenge fabric used in the restoration doesn't compare well to modern representations of the fabric of the era. But this book is still a superb resource. For modeling the DV/DVa, I can't imagine ever needing more than this book and the Windsock Datafile on the subject. I thought this book was out of print until I found one just last summer on my yearly pilgrimage to the National Air and Space Museum. Found it in the bookstore for less than $10, along with lots of other goodies. Anyone who doesn't already have this book can probably still get it via mail from the NASM. On a related note, let me just mention that on a whim I ordered two of Eduard's 1/48 DV kits (plus the two recent Aeromaster Alb. DIII/DV decal offerings) from Squadron as soon as they started advertising this kit's release on the Web. I wasn't disappointed. I don't care what scale you build, you *must buy this kit* ;) I put the sprue trees from Eduard's Eindecker next to those from the DV and marveled at the difference in quality and precision. From the looks of it (ok, ok, I haven't started working on it just yet), the quality of this kit easily rivals that of any of DML's 1/48 WWI releases to date. The one word that keeps coming to mind whenever I look at this kit is "crisp." Panel lines are delicate, and trailing edges are thin (finally!). Hats off to Eduard for this amazing leap in kit engineering and quality. Here's hoping this is the start of a very long line of similar releases! Anyway, as with all Eduard releases, this one is a limited run, (just try finding one of their Siemens-Schuckert kits) so I'm going to pick up two more as soon as the hobby budget recovers from my last buying spree. Have fun, Kev ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 12:38:23 -0500 (EST) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: Kits For Sale Message-ID: <199603271738.MAA06061@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > you'd like a list e-mailed to you, please e-mail me directly, rather > than posting to the group. Prices and shipping/handling are all on the > document. (Word for Windows 7.0 format). > Larry Armin, Aurora, CO Send me a copy please! -Al ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:10:17 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Conversions, was Q: Glenco PfalzD.III Message-ID: <199603271011.KAA11171@cso.com> On 26 Mar 96 at 16:55, STEVE HUSTAD typed diligantly: > Some entrants don't understand the diffence between detailed vs. > converted. And if a conversion, we say it cannot be an aftermarket > conversion kit, but must be the work of the modeler - otherwise it > goes into the 'detailed' catagories. Not sure about this one. My my focus is on one of the kits "currently in progress". I wouldn't think it fair if I had to enter my Nie.11 "conversion" (quotes, according to others) versus a TC Berg example. Why? Because my conversion is using the Rosemont fuselage and upper wing. Everything else is "mine". So, now I'm competing my little "inferior" kit versus one of the best resin kits on the market. However, I don't want to compete against a conversion where *everything* is provided for the modeler, and all they have to do is "cut and paste". Sure, the largest parts of my Nie.11 were provided, but everything else I make on my own. So, where does this lead? Maybe a model by model basis. Just for argument's sake, a Siemens Schuckert D.IV conversion (using pre-made vac wings) should not have to compete against an Fw 190 conversion that just supplies new tail parts. However, I also don't think it's fair for the D.IV conversion to compete against an "out of the box" D.IV. Not fair for both parties. Hmmm...have I gotten anybody else confused?... Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 10:28:09 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: Q: Glenco PfalzD.III Message-ID: <199603271028.KAA11384@cso.com> On 26 Mar 96 at 18:51, Bill Shatzer typed diligantly: > Well, just to stir the pot a bit, I'd enquire, 'why'? As I understand > it, a conversion is just that, a conversion, and exactly -where- you > get the parts to do the converstion is irrelevant. So whether I scratch > build a set of Merlin engines or cut 'em off a Lancaster, or buy an > aftermarket set of Merlins and props; if I stick 'em on my Beaufighter > kit to turn it into a Mk II, I've done a converstion and I'm in the > conversion catagory, no? I might not -win- much with such a raggedy > ass conversion but it -is- a conversion under the IPMS rules as I > read 'em. I guess my last post was to say something like this. Good job, Bill! Matt ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 77 ********************