WWI Digest 61 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: FYI...Sopwith Tripe?....See ya! by SDW@qld.mim.com.au 2) Great WWI aircraft pics by amadon@pcix.com (Gerald P. McOsker) 3) Re: POSSIBLE rip-off alert. by aew (Allan Wright) 4) Re: WWI Fly-in at Dayton by bciciora@pitneysoft.com (Bill Ciciora) 5) Re: Photocopies by aew (Allan Wright) 6) Re: How many WW I modelers are there ?-redux by "Carlos Valdes" 7) Re:Waldhausen by "Carlos Valdes" 8) Great WWI aircraft pics by "Gerald P. McOsker" 9) Re[2]: New kits by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 10) I need assistance! by vanmatre@nprdc.navy.mil (Nick Van Matre) 11) Re: I need assistance! by The Flying Wrench 12) WW1 Modeler Needs Help (fwd) by aew (Allan Wright) 13) Re: WW1 Modeler Needs Help (fwd) by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 14) Re: Tom's Model Works Nie by ENDYL@delphi.com 15) Re:Hans Waldhausen by cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) 16) Re: New kits by Erik Pilawskii 17) Re: WWI digest 60 by agrafix@ix.netcom.com (Richard G. Ivansek ) 18) Albatros survivor ?? by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Mar 96 13:26:00 EST From: SDW@qld.mim.com.au To: wwi%pease1.sr.unh.edu@teksup.mim.com.au Subject: RE: FYI...Sopwith Tripe?....See ya! Message-ID: <199603110644.QAA05908@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hello Anthony (and everyone else) Since my mail system refuses to give me your address, I'm afraid everyone gets to hear all of this: >Anyone have any suggestions as to what else we shouldn't miss while in >Australia please feel free to suggest. We'll Be traveling all over the >country except for the NW coast up above Perth. When in Canberra, try to visit the annexe to the AWM. They own (aside from the aircraft at the Memorial) about 40 aircraft, though some are on loan to other institutions, or may be dismantled and/or under renovation. Among the goodies they list which are not at the Memorial are a Deperdussin monoplane, Dh.9a and an Avro 504. Quite a few post WW1 aircraft too if that matters to you. I have to confess that I've never been there (the annexe) have been told that it is open to the public. If in Melbourne, take a side trip to the RAAF museum. They have a collection which includes both genuine WW1 aircraft and some rather nice replicas. They also have a flying program. Watch the Pup and Dr.I replicas (425/17 of course, ho-hum) in flight. Weekends only if I remember correctly. The museum home page is at - http://www.ozemail.com.au/~raafmus/raafmus.html Like the AWM, they farm aircraft out to other institutions (and may be the present location of the AWM Deperdussin) If travelling in South Australia, you may be able to see the one and only existing Bristol M.IC. For the life of me, I cannot remember the name of the town. It's noted in the Datafile, if you have it, or email me and I'll check for you. There are worthwhile aviation exhibits at other museums. The Queensland Museum in Brisbane has a number of aircraft used by aviation pioneers, including Bert Hinkler who soloed the England - Australia route. And of course, at the entrance to the Brisbane Airport is a hangar containing the "Southern Cross" used by Charles Kingsford Smith in the first crossing of the Pacific (and incidentally, in either the first or second East-West crossing of the Atlantic) It's a Fokker trimotor by the way. Theres a neat museum at Oakey (120miles west of Brisbane) which has a good selection of aircraft which include a replica Bristol Boxkite (from "Those magnificent me.." ) It may not be worth the side trip unless you want to see a history of Bell helicopters plus various army cooperation light aircraft.. And theres a hell of a lot more which is not aviation, let alone WW1 aviation, related. Enjoy your trip Regards Shane Brisbane, Australia. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:28:11 -0500 From: amadon@pcix.com (Gerald P. McOsker) To: wwi Subject: Great WWI aircraft pics Message-ID: Boys and Girl [?] Check this site out for peachy keen WWI aircraft pics including Italian gas bag. http://spavalda.polito.it/museo_poli/aerei/index.html Cheese- Gerry Gerry McOsker- Newport Rhode Island. "When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 09:50:28 -0500 (EST) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: POSSIBLE rip-off alert. Message-ID: <199603111450.JAA01029@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > >If anyone has had any dealings (good or bad) with a recent poster from > >Houston who is selling his deceased father's collection of kits please > >contact me at once. Well, Edward sent me everything I ordered. Has anyone here had any problems? If not then I may post to Rec.Models.Scale informing everyone not to worry. -Al ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 08:59:00 EST From: bciciora@pitneysoft.com (Bill Ciciora) To: wwi Subject: Re: WWI Fly-in at Dayton Message-ID: Per request by private email, the mailing address of our 1/1 scale group: GREAT WAR AEROPLANES ASSOCIATION 4330 WAYCROSS ST HOUSTON TX 77035-3822 I guess it's not completely 1/1 scale, some guys build those 85% SE5s and those 7/8 Nieuport XIs. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:02:36 -0500 (EST) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: Rancho138@aol.com Cc: wwi Subject: Re: Photocopies Message-ID: <199603111502.KAA01140@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Allen, I'm looking for photocopies of the following articles, I would > appreciate it if you could post this on the WW1 web page. I would be glad to > reimburse who evey can furnish them for the price of the copies and postage. > Thanks. > Mike Kippenhan > rancho138@aol.com > > Articles needed > Colors: Jagdeschwader II Part One, Over the front, fall 1994 > Colors: Jagdeschwader II Part Two, Over the front, winter 1994 Mike, I'm forwarding your request tot he WWI modeling mailing list - I'm sure someone there would be willing to help you with your quest. Thanks, Allan Wright List: This person is not subscribed - please reply to him directly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 10:28:47 EST From: "Carlos Valdes" To: wwi Subject: Re: How many WW I modelers are there ?-redux Message-ID: <37729.carlos.valdes@conted.gatech.edu> David, I heard at our meeting that a chapter was being formed in the St. Louis area. We had over twenty people who expressed an interest in coming to the first meeting. While only seven showed, we went ahead with the meeting and the forming of the chapter and expect more to come in the future (especially when they hear about what they missed). Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 10:32:07 EST From: "Carlos Valdes" To: wwi Subject: Re:Waldhausen Message-ID: <37929.carlos.valdes@conted.gatech.edu> Joey, Hans had either 19 or 20 (I don't have my references handy) going down himself; I believe he was captured by the French and thus survived the war. I'll post more specifics when I get home. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 1996 09:54:09 GMT From: "Gerald P. McOsker" Subject: Great WWI aircraft pics Message-ID: Status Distribution Unknown , :: The message regarding "" sent on Unknown , :: was sent by Status Recipient Type To DUN SMTP.WWI Name Domain SMTP Native Name wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Last Name _wwi DDA RFC-822!wwi(a)pease1.sr.unh.edu Recipients Status Reporters Type From DUN RANC006L.SHUSTAD Middle Initial A Name Domain CCMAIL Native Name STEVE A HUSTAD at OPKS001L Org Unit 2 CCMAIL/OPKS001L Org Unit 3 KANSAS CITY KS FSO Last Name HUSTAD First Name STEVE Status 769 Explanation Invalid recipient X.400 Status 769 Explanation Invalid recipient ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 07:56:43 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: New kits Message-ID: <9602118265.AA826559886@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> The skinny from Jeff is that HITKIT is gonna be good. The thinking is that these are the same guys that do Vista. I built Vista's Fairey Fulmar (what is that?????); it was 'not bad'. There is a Polish decal maker (whose name, naturally, escapes me...) who is currenly cutting some pretty good stuff, and I believe they are gonna make the kit-supplied sheet. The Vista Fairey Fulmar has a kit supplied sheet from Propaqteam. This one in particular is bad news. One of the roundels was off center. The decals were very translucent, fragile as hell, etc etc. That's my real beef; they were not workable. I put them on and right now I am working on another kit and thinking about how to get them off. They look horrible. I haven't applied dull-cote or anything over it yet and the base color is Floquil lacquer (military colors is xylene based; that's lacquer isn't it? enamel? It sure ain't acrylic!). They didn't even respond well to Solvaset; they just didn't settle in well -- which surprises me considering how incredibly thin they were. (urge to make this a flying model) Got any ideas? I'd love to hear them. ---Stephen Tontoni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:42:27 -0800 From: vanmatre@nprdc.navy.mil (Nick Van Matre) To: wwi Cc: aew, vanmatre@nprdc.navy.mil Subject: I need assistance! Message-ID: <9603111642.AA19538@atlantic.nprdc.navy.mil> I know this is unusual, but I need some assistance. I have tried to take myself off of this list; there are too many msgs for me. But my efforts have not worked. I have sent msgs to listproc@preasel.sr.unh.edu, to wwi@..., and several other addresses, but to no avail. (I hesitate to use the "uns.bscr.be" word because the list keeps coming back and telling me to send a msg to listproc@....... and THOSE msgs keep coming back "no known host". I have sent msgs to "Allen" == aew and have had those msgs come back also. Please help me get off this list, as detailed and active as it is; it is too much for me! (My interests are in flying scale aircraft.) My email address is: vanmatre@nprdc.navy.mil TIA, Nick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:22:55 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: vanmatre@nprdc.navy.mil Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: I need assistance! Message-ID: <199603111722.IAA14220@anchor> At 11:41 AM 3/11/96 -0500, Nick Van Matre wrote: > >I know this is unusual, but I need some assistance. >I have tried to take myself off of this list; there are too >many msgs for me. But my efforts have not worked. >I have sent msgs to listproc@preasel.sr.unh.edu, to wwi@..., >and several other addresses, but to no avail. (I hesitate to >use the "uns.bscr.be" word because the list keeps coming back >and telling me to send a msg to listproc@....... and THOSE msgs >keep coming back "no known host". I have sent msgs to "Allen" == aew >and have had those msgs come back also. > >Please help me get off this list, as detailed and active as it is; >it is too much for me! (My interests are in flying scale aircraft.) > >My email address is: vanmatre@nprdc.navy.mil > Nick allow me to suggest you contact your local server and request a change of address. Dream up a new address like vanmatri@nprdc.navy.mil. This will solve the problem, however if you have alot of E-Mail from other sources this may not be an answer. Another possibility is to obtain an "drop box" such as 'pobox' at - www.pobox.com/p3/ - for about fifteen dollars a year this outfit will allow you to maintain a drop box that intercepts all your mail and mails it to any old or new address you like. The drop box address can also be changed at will. I have found in the past when I cannot solve an external computer problem with an outside source, I change my system to accommodate the situation. The Flyin' Wrench ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:16:24 -0500 (EST) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: WW1 Modeler Needs Help (fwd) Message-ID: <199603112016.PAA02901@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Hector, I'm forwarding your question to the WWI modeling mailing list. There are many people that can answer your question there. I can also reccomend the excellent (but a bit expensive) book on Austrio-Hungarian Aces and Aircraft by Flying Maching Press. I know the Aviatik is covered in detail there and if my memory serves me correctly there is a color plate of the modeled finish. For the Halberstadt I think you may me Lozenge not modeled finish - but I could be wrong. -Allan Wright. WWI List: If anyone can give Hector some help please do. He's not a WWI list member so CC him on the mail. > I recently got my hands on a Pegasus Halberstadt CL-IIa and Merlin's > Aviatik C-I and 30.40. Unfortunately, I'm lost as to how to paint them. > > The Pegasus instructions describe a six color mottled area on both the > body and center portion of the upper wing. Do you or any member of your > group have a jpg or gif or what this is supposed to look like? > > Any info on paint schemes for the Aviatik birds would be appreciated. > > Thanks in advance for the assistance and great job with the Web site! > > Sincerely, > > Hector Maury (hmaury@ix.netcom.com) > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:39:43 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: WW1 Modeler Needs Help (fwd) Message-ID: >Hector, > > I'm forwarding your question to the WWI modeling mailing list. There >are many people that can answer your question there. I can also reccomend >the excellent (but a bit expensive) book on Austrio-Hungarian Aces and >Aircraft by Flying Maching Press. I know the Aviatik is covered in detail there >and if my memory serves me correctly there is a color plate of the >modeled finish. For the Halberstadt I think you may me Lozenge not >modeled finish - but I could be wrong. > >-Allan Wright. > >WWI List: If anyone can give Hector some help please do. He's not a WWI list >member so CC him on the mail. > >> I recently got my hands on a Pegasus Halberstadt CL-IIa and Merlin's >> Aviatik C-I and 30.40. Unfortunately, I'm lost as to how to paint them. >> >> The Pegasus instructions describe a six color mottled area on both the >> body and center portion of the upper wing. Do you or any member of your >> group have a jpg or gif or what this is supposed to look like? >> >> Any info on paint schemes for the Aviatik birds would be appreciated. >> >> Thanks in advance for the assistance and great job with the Web site! >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Hector Maury (hmaury@ix.netcom.com) >> Perhaps Al, consideration should be given to making a page on the WEB site with a bibliography of various reference books and a list of all the published Datafiles and the like. I think that with the resources of the list members it wouldn't be hard to put together an electronic file of what we all have on our shelves at home. Ideas anyone ?? Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:13:17 -0500 (EST) From: ENDYL@delphi.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Tom's Model Works Nie Message-ID: <01I281SIQIO29BWLUS@delphi.com> Subject: Re: Tom's Model Works Nie 9/10 >> Tom's Model Works >> >> Nieuport 9/10 $32.95 (1/48) > >Anyone know what the quality of these kits is like? > I found this one a week ago at a local IPMS open contest. Paid $24.00 for it from the vendor (APC Hobbies). This is the first resin kit I've pruchased and other than the two fuselage halves are molded in different colors (green/khaki brown) I haven't had a chance to look it over. Will try tonight and post a more detailed response Tuesday evening. Len _ Never mind saving the planet! Save your soul! QWicKeSST - The ultimate database QWK reader, and NO limits. #$678803 Special Compile: 1.032B (Beta) '[1;35;40m-=> Delphi Internet Jet SST v3.012 - (C) PBE ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 21:39:48 EST From: cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) To: wwi Subject: Re:Hans Waldhausen Message-ID: <199603120239.WAA00794@conted.swann.gatech.edu> Well, I got home and checked my trusty references. Boy, did I blow it earlier today. I got old Hans confused with someone else (although I can't imagine who right now). Here's the skinny on him: Born: 1892 Died: 1976 Fighter unit: Jasta 37 Victories: 6 (all in September 1917) Captured: 9/27/17 Nickname: the Eagle of Lens My apologies for any confusion my earlier post may have caused. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:51:38 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: wwi Subject: Re: New kits Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 1996, Charles Hart wrote: > >it right! If it matches the recent drawings in _Prezniy Lotnitce_ it will > >be super! > > > > Where did you get the information about the existence of an "actual" > OEF 253 in Poland ??? I would very much like to know the source of > information on this and see a photo if possible. I have a couple of these > Polish language books with their rather nice drawings and photos, but being > unable to read them I don't know if they mention any original airframes. I > didn't think that one of these survived from the Berlin collection but > perhaps I am mistaken. > Though I seem to recall seeing this elsewhere, the only reference I can find in this mountain of stuff by my desk is Tomasz Goworek's 1969 effort _Samoloty i Barwa Polskich Lotnicze 1918-1939_. In it he says, on page 70, speaking of Dyon II/2 and their operations against the Red Army, "...The unit made do with whatever aircraft were at hand, many flying Hannover and Austrian Albatros D.235 (sic) fighters until the end of hostilities. Indeed, some of these Albatros machines remained in service in the fledgling Polish Army Air Force until well into the '20s. An example of this type of aircraft is still held in storage in the National Collection (PLMD)." However, from the tone of your post I assume this might be one of those read-but-not-true statements. But, dang, I thought I read that elsewhere. Even more suspicious is that the next to last publication from _Prezniy Lotnictwe_ had 3-view drawings of an Oef.253 in the markings of II/2. Hmmmmm. OTH, I have a newer and better book on the subject that is do back soon-- _Polskie Eskadry w Latach 1918-1939_, by Jerzy Pawlak (1989); when it arrives I'll look in there. I wonder if anyone has _Great Air Collections of the World_ (or similar such title) and could peek in it? The other thing that just occured to me is wonder about the wording "an example of this type of aircraft"-- could this mean a replica? Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "I find it most remarkable, indeed-- and a scathing indictment of our Civilization-- that the Lads in France did not mutiny and over-throw the military leadership. The mere idea of corpulent, doltish, white-powder- faced Generals directing the mass murder of innocents from the luxury of their remote chateaux is quite enough to cause one to call into question the need for the continuing existence of the Human Race...." A.T.Magnuson, M.P. .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:30:57 -0800 From: agrafix@ix.netcom.com (Richard G. Ivansek ) To: wwi Subject: Re: WWI digest 60 Message-ID: <199603120330.TAA18535@ix14.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: >Date: Sun, 10 Mar 96 21:55 CST >From: bciciora@wwa.com >To: wwi >Subject: WWI Fly-in at Dayton >Message-ID: > >At my Cross & Cockade meeting yesterday, I picked up a copy of >"The Great Times", which is the newsletter of The Great War Aeroplanes >Association. This is the group that formed after Frank Ryder's untimely >demise. Anyway, they are planning five fly-ins this year. > >The biggest will be at the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton >Ohio, on July 20 and 21. This will coincide with the Dayton International >Air Show. The attractions listed on the poster include: Full Scale flying >aircraft (now *that's* huge, Matt), balloon busting, flour bombing, >formation flying, grand finale squadron melee, and radio control WWI >aircraft. I know we have some RC builders on this list. > >I hope to meet some of you out there. > >Bill > I am planning on attending that one. I'm hoping that it will be even better than Aerodrome 94. Rick Ivansek ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 21:55:17 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Albatros survivor ?? Message-ID: Erik wrote: >> >it right! If it matches the recent drawings in _Prezniy Lotnitce_ it will >> >be super! >> > >> To which Charles replied: >> Where did you get the information about the existence of an "actual" >> OEF 253 in Poland ??? I would very much like to know the source of >> information on this and see a photo if possible. I have a couple of these >> Polish language books with their rather nice drawings and photos, but being >> unable to read them I don't know if they mention any original airframes. I >> didn't think that one of these survived from the Berlin collection but >> perhaps I am mistaken. >> And with which Erik typed: > Though I seem to recall seeing this elsewhere, the only reference I can >find in this mountain of stuff by my desk is Tomasz Goworek's 1969 effort >_Samoloty i Barwa Polskich Lotnicze 1918-1939_. In it he says, on page 70, >speaking of Dyon II/2 and their operations against the Red Army, "...The unit >made do with whatever aircraft were at hand, many flying Hannover and >Austrian Albatros D.235 (sic) fighters until the end of hostilities. Indeed, >some of these Albatros machines remained in service in the fledgling Polish >Army Air Force until well into the '20s. An example of this type of >aircraft is still held in storage in the National Collection (PLMD)." > However, from the tone of your post I assume this might be one of those >read-but-not-true statements. But, dang, I thought I read that elsewhere. >Even more suspicious is that the next to last publication from _Prezniy >Lotnictwe_ had 3-view drawings of an Oef.253 in the markings of II/2. Hmmmmm. >OTH, I have a newer and better book on the subject that is do back soon-- >_Polskie Eskadry w Latach 1918-1939_, by Jerzy Pawlak (1989); when it >arrives I'll look in there. I wonder if anyone has _Great Air Collections >of the World_ (or similar such title) and could peek in it? > The other thing that just occured to me is wonder about the wording "an >example of this type of aircraft"-- could this mean a replica? > And Charles responds: Erik, thanks for this information. I assume that you are translating the Polish yourself ? a useful skill. In my earlier post I was indeed skeptical about a surviving OEF D-III in Poland. After 20 years about reading about these aircraft I thought I had heard of all the survivors. I don't see Goworek's text as a firm confirmation of such a survivor but it offers potential. Who knows what will emerge as the various airframes stored in Poland all of these years emerge for our inspection. My personal hope is that they will find the OEF at the very back and hanging off on one wing frame will be a large swatch of the Austro-Hungarian "sworl" fabric. Only then, the late Marty O'C not withstanding, will we finally know what colors that fabricwas actually printed in. We can all fantasize at least a little. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 61 ********************