WWI Digest 51 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: WWI Colors by scottfking@aol.com (Scottfking) 2) Re: Aircraft from Berlin... TANK, TANK !!! by Jose Valenciano 3) Re: A tidbit by Jose Valenciano 4) Re: WWI digest 50 by agrafix@ix.netcom.com (Richard G. Ivansek ) 5) Guynemer's Nieuport by The Flying Wrench 6) Re: Guynemer's Nieuport by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 7) Re: Guynemer's Nieuport by The Flying Wrench ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Feb 1996 05:38:54 -0500 From: scottfking@aol.com (Scottfking) Subject: Re: WWI Colors Message-ID: <4h3vnu$jgr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> In article <4gos3s$50n$1@mhafc.production.compuserve.com>, Nick Ferraiolo <74037.1625@CompuServe.COM> writes: > I am at the detail painting/final assembly stage, and I am having trouble identifying the color of the landing gear assembly (the V-struts and the crossbar). The aircraft is C4907. Is it possible that the struts were left in some type of natural metal (steel tube) finish? According to Windsock Datafile # 52, the Bristol M1C A/C were factory finished in PC10 (or PC 12) on the upper surfacesof the stabilizer and the wings, fuselage top and bottom, struts, cowling, wheel covers, and landing gear assembly. Undersurfaces of wings and Stabilizer were clear doped ond clear varnished. Aircraft C4907 appears to have the bottom finished in a (possibly) pale blue. Otherwise standard finish according to this publication. The color profile on the back of #52 shows the upper surfaces in PC 10, including all the landing gear assembly. Hope this helps Skippy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:30:05 +0800 (HKT) From: Jose Valenciano To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Aircraft from Berlin... TANK, TANK !!! Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Mar 1996 GRBroman@aol.com wrote: > I am working on a Museum Ordnance Special on the FT-17 (and the US 6 ton > light tank) I have several photos here at my desk and I have the Tech > manual, I plan to take some interior photos of a surviving example sometime > this month. Should be pretty interesting. I know of surviving examples in > Chantilly (sp?) and Bloomington, Il Fort Meade (?) and Fort Knox and > Bovington and Saumer in Europe, any body know of any others? Thanks, Glen How about some info on the more elusive Schneiders and St. Chamonds ! ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:33:21 +0800 (HKT) From: Jose Valenciano To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A tidbit Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Matt Bittner wrote: > Not sure of what mods you would have to do, but Tauro put out a Fiat > 3000(?), which was an FT-17 clone. Since I have no references on the > Fiat, I can't say for sure what (if any) differences there are. Same configuration. Not really a clone, many detail and shape differences. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:58:14 -0800 From: agrafix@ix.netcom.com (Richard G. Ivansek ) To: wwi Subject: Re: WWI digest 50 Message-ID: <199603020558.VAA04642@ix2.ix.netcom.com> You Wrote, I know of surviving examples in Chantilly (sp?) and Bloomington, Il Fort Meade (?) and Fort Knox and Bovington and Saumer in Europe, any body know of any others? Thanks, Glen ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hayes Otopolak ( I may have butchered his name ) owns one somewhere in Montana I believe. It is the only WW1 tank in private hands that I know of. It also is a runner, and he drove it in a video that he sells ( never seen it but i've heard it was pretty good ). It was originaly sold at action by the state, here in AZ, when the Furrs WW1 Army Museum at Piccacho Peak was seized due to non payment of back taxes. Too bad, I remember seeing the collection as a kid and it was pretty good. Lousy atmosphere of a tourist trap but some real rare stuff. I'll see if I can find his address for you. Have a good one, Rick Ivansek ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 06:52:06 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Subject: Guynemer's Nieuport Message-ID: <199603021552.GAA10089@anchor> The Wrench imparts: Recently, I ran across another interesting photo of a Nie.17. The photo is from a 1978 Aviation Quarterly, Volume IV, No I.. Page 39 has a photo of a Nie.17; the fuselage exhibits what appears to be three tone camouflage and it sports the 'cone de penetration' which appears to be a two tone colour. The upper wing of this aircraft contains a viewing cut-out. The cut-out runs the full chord of the upper wing and is three ribs in width. Appropriately enough, the middle rib and the spars gives the cutout the impression of a 'French window' installed in the upper wing. What is interesting is that I recently reviewed a photograph of Georges Guynemer standing in front of what appears to be this same aircraft or if not the same aircraft, at least the same modified version of Nieuport. This photo is a close up view of the front of the Nieuport, which has a broken propeller, but clearly sports the cone and the wing cutout. The angle of the photograph does not allow determination of the colouring on the side of the fuselage. The upper wing cutout in this photo led me to believe that the Nieuport was a different model, perhaps a 12 or some other obscure model he flew. But after seeing this AQ photo clearly there were Nie.17s that contained the upper wing cutout. What arouses my curiosity is the possibility that this is Guynemers Nie.17. If this is the version of Guynemers Nieuport with the cone de penetration and this aircraft also had a wing cutout and fuselage camoflauge, then the Hobby Craft Nieuport is all wrong. The Hobby Craft Nie.17 lacks the wing cutout and indicates camoflauge on the upper wing only. Can anyone give further details? Specifically did Guynemer fly an Nie.17 that had the cone but no wing cutouts? Is there proof of his camoflauge markings? Another question I have concerns the Nieuport factory location. There is a Nieuport France, was this the city where the Nieuport aircraft factory was located, or was the aircraft merely named for this location? The Wrench CONTACT! - I'm outta here ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:12:35 -0800 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Guynemer's Nieuport Message-ID: <199603021612.AA08374@ednet1.orednet.org> > > >The Wrench imparts: > >Recently, I ran across another interesting photo of a Nie.17. The photo is >from a 1978 Aviation Quarterly, Volume IV, No I.. Page 39 has a photo of a >Nie.17; -snips- >then the Hobby Craft Nieuport is all wrong. The Hobby Craft >Nie.17 lacks the wing cutout and indicates camoflauge on the upper wing >only. -snips- Well, it's certainly possible that Guynemer had more that one Nieuport. But the color scheme Hobbycraft uses for N 1550 is generally correct and there -are- photos of Guynemer sitting in the cockpit of N 1550 so we can pretty safely assume that the Hobbycraft depicts at least -one- of his N.17's Guynemer began flying N.17's at the end of June, '16. On July 16, '16, he obtained his 11th victory but took 86 hits in his aircraft. We can probably assume that an aircraft with 86 bullet holes in it was out of service for repairs for at least a few days so it's reasonable to assume Guynemer got a 'loaner' while his aircraft was 'in the shop'. So more than one Nieuport 17 is not out of the question. But, given the markings on N 1550, it would seem that N 1550 was, or at least was intended to be, Guynemer's 'regular' a/c. Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - "The only duty we owe to history is to rewrite it." -Oscar Wilde- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 07:58:09 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Guynemer's Nieuport Message-ID: <199603021658.HAA11625@anchor> At 11:13 AM 3/2/96 -0500, Bill Shatzer wrote: >Well, it's certainly possible that Guynemer had more that one Nieuport. >But the color scheme Hobbycraft uses for N 1550 is generally >correct and there -are- photos of Guynemer sitting in the cockpit >of N 1550 so we can pretty safely assume that the Hobbycraft >depicts at least -one- of his N.17's > >Guynemer began flying N.17's at the end of June, '16. On July >16, '16, he obtained his 11th victory but took 86 hits in his >aircraft. We can probably assume that an aircraft with 86 bullet >holes in it was out of service for repairs for at least a few days >so it's reasonable to assume Guynemer got a 'loaner' while >his aircraft was 'in the shop'. > >So more than one Nieuport 17 is not out of the question. But, >given the markings on N 1550, it would seem that N 1550 was, or >at least was intended to be, Guynemer's 'regular' a/c. The Wrench salutes: Good morning Mr. Shatzer. It appears we are the only ones up in this corner of the virtual trenchwar. Question: Can I safely assume that N1550 had no wing cutout, but in fact had the cone? Can you give me some photo references that I might consult concerning 1550? Is is my imagination or are photos of messrs. Guynemer's aircraft are somewhat obscure, especially his early birds? The Wrench I'm grounded today as the weather is: sky obscured, visibility less than 300 meters. So roll her back into the hanger boys. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 51 ********************