WWI Digest 45 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Engine turned cowlings by SCLexicat@aol.com 2) Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum by Robert Woodbury 3) Re: dairy tin by agrafix@ix.netcom.com (Richard G. Ivansek ) 4) Re: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum by bshatzer@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Bill Shatzer) 5) Re: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum by Robert Woodbury 6) chit chat by Martin Lawder 7) Re: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum by "Matt Bittner" 8) Re: "real" color of doped linen - how to match?? by Jeff Friedrichs 26-Feb-1996 0911 9) Latest from Rosemont by "Matt Bittner" 10) Re: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 11) Re: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum by iceman@ro.com (Eli Geher) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 16:47:40 -0500 From: SCLexicat@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Engine turned cowlings Message-ID: <960225164739_431327747@emout07.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 25/02/96 03:04:13, you write: >>And one final thought - Chat. Does anyone know the orgins of the term >>"chatting"? Does anyone know what a "chat" is? I have a book about trench >>warefare and found this term. Can anyone enlighten us as to the meaning of >>this term? >> >What was the context in which it was used? I assume we're looking for >some meaning other than the usual one of 'banter' or 'converse'. > > He warned us! A "strange and unusual sense of humour", or something similar, was the characteristic that The Wrench recently attributed to himself. Simon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 13:37:07 -0500 From: Robert Woodbury To: wwi Subject: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum Message-ID: <3131FDD3.5C3F@per.dwr.csiro.au> Hi All, I've come across an August 1968 issue of Flying Review International which has an article towards the end listing a number of vintage and veteran aircraft which finished up in Poland following WWII. All (most?) of these aircraft were displayed at the Berlin Air Museum. Does anyone have any idea of their current status? Some of the more interesting items appear below: Albatros B.IIa, C.I AEG "Euler" Aviatik C.III de Havilland D.H.9A DFW C.V LVG C.II Messerschmitt Me 209 V1 Rolland D.VIb Rumpler Taube Sopwith Camel F.1 Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:05:59 -0800 From: agrafix@ix.netcom.com (Richard G. Ivansek ) To: wwi Subject: Re: dairy tin Message-ID: <199602260605.WAA09654@ix4.ix.netcom.com> I haven't heard of dairy tin before but I have heard of tinned steel. Tinned steel is steel plated with tin to prevent corrosion. Pfatz ammo boxes were finished in such a way. Rick Ivansek ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 1996 22:33:29 -0800 From: bshatzer@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum Message-ID: <199602260633.AA29975@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Rob writes: > >I've come across an August 1968 issue of Flying Review International >which has an article towards the end listing a number of vintage and >veteran aircraft which finished up in Poland following WWII. All (most?) >of these aircraft were displayed at the Berlin Air Museum. > >Does anyone have any idea of their current status? > >Some of the more interesting items appear below: Well, according to my 1978 edition of 'Veteran and vintage Aircraft, the 1978 status of these aircraft was: > >Albatros B.IIa, C.I -both there in 1978- C.I was 197/15 >AEG "Euler" -there in 1978- >Aviatik C.III -there in 1978 - C.1225/17 >de Havilland D.H.9A -there in 1978 - Liberty engine, F.1010 >DFW C.V -there in 1978 - C.17077/17, Aviatik built >LVG C.II -listed as a B.II, no number >Messerschmitt Me 209 V1 -there in 1978 - V-1, D-INJR >Rolland D.VIb -there in 1978 - 2225/18 tail-less but in 'fair' condition >Rumpler Taube -there in 1978, Austrian markings >Sopwith Camel F.1 -there in 1978, B7280, 210 Sqn RAF > Others WW1-types listed for the Krakow facility in 1978 were: Albatros H.1 (1920's modified Siemans Schukert DIV) Geeste Mowe (1913-vintage Taube) Grigorovitch M.15 (1917 Russian flying boat) Halberstadt CL.II 1545 9/17 (???) Jeanin Taube (1914 Taube) Farman F.4 (replica) Antoinette (1910 edition, no other info provided) Plus a bunch of post WW1 machines including one of the two Curtiss Hawk II's purchased by Udet in 1933 with the 1936 Olympic rings still visible. Boy, I sure hope Poland runs short of foreign exchange and decides to -deal- with the NASM to pick up a few extra dollars. -political mode on- 'course with what's happening in Washington now, the NASM probably has fewer dollars than Poland and the aircraft will probably end up in Kuwait! -political mode off- Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - "The only duty we owe to history is to rewrite it." -Oscar Wilde- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 15:54:17 -0500 From: Robert Woodbury To: wwi Subject: Re: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum Message-ID: <31321DF9.5F11@per.dwr.csiro.au> Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to how one might go about organising to get a look at any of these aircraft?? Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 09:38:59 +22300819 (MEZ) From: Martin Lawder To: wwi Subject: chit chat Message-ID: <9602260838.AA17446@sulu.fb12.tu-berlin.de> > >>And one final thought - Chat. Does anyone know the orgins of the term > >>"chatting"? Does anyone know what a "chat" is? I have a book about trench > >>warefare and found this term. Can anyone enlighten us as to the meaning of > >>this term? > >What was the context in which it was used? I assume we're looking for > >some meaning other than the usual one of 'banter' or 'converse'. > The Wrench elaborates: > "For instance soldiers brewed tea, fried bacon, and chatted together. This > was a social as well as an individual event, as trench fighters gathered in > groups an chatted and gossiped." The soldiers would frequently chat with > each other. > Any ideas on this? > The Wrench hi, i think the term "chat" probably comes from the term "chit chat", and may have originated from school or offices in the passing round of bits of paper with notes on them, ie. lets have a chit chat.. lets have a chat, ok? Cheers....Martin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 07:07:37 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum Message-ID: <199602260708.HAA02056@cso.com> On 26 Feb 96 at 0:35, Robert Woodbury typed diligantly: > Does anyone have any idea of their current status? > Rolland D.VIb According to issues of Windsock and WW1 Aero, they have just (as in upto six months ago) finished restoring the fuselage. Nothing else as of yet. > Sopwith Camel F.1 I've seen pictures of the fuselage, restored and uncovered. Again, nothing else but the fuselage. Which brings up a question: do the Poles have the other parts, or just the fuselage's? Also, according to WW1 Aero and Windsock, they're currently working on restoring the Albatros H.1 (high-altitude SSW D.IV) fuselage. Matt -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Matthew Bittner WW1 Modeler, ecto subscriber meba@cso.com PowerBuilder developer; Omaha, Nebraska Disclaimer: opinions expressed by me are my responsibility only. "Ex-lovers make great speed bumps" - Bumper Sticker -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 09:15:24 EST From: Jeff Friedrichs 26-Feb-1996 0911 To: wwi Subject: Re: "real" color of doped linen - how to match?? Message-ID: <9602261415.AA24689@us2rmc.zko.dec.com> >The Flyin' Wrench wants to know: > >Yeah, yeah, yeah, (do I sound like an old beatles song or what?) This is all >very well and good, but did you REALLY go the distance and rib stitch and >tape the entire wing structure? That's what I'd like to see. Boy nothing >like spending a couple of weeks with a needle and thread to add super scale >realism. Well, that was going to be a follow on post... Yes, I am planning on stitching and taping the Nieuport-11. If nothing else, it will help keep the covering tight to the undercambered wing. However, from what I have seen, it *appears* that only the top wing of the N.11 was stitched and taped, but not the lower wing. I don't know why they wouldn't, but in all of my photo packs, there is no tape, which means no stitching either. Another question for Rhinebeck! Cheers, jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 10:44:19 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: WW1 Modelers Subject: Latest from Rosemont Message-ID: <199602261045.KAA04551@cso.com> Not too much to report. Their flyer came with the latest Windsock and Datafile, and most of it seems like old news. Glenocoe re-releases, Revell D.VII, Datafile program for '96, and a news flash that the Eduard D.V "due shortly", and are taking orders now (guesstimate is about another 3 weeks until they arrive). One neat thing not related - but which will bring us to related items - is the latest from Atlee. A Polikarpov I-16 Type 10 conversion for the Hasegawa kits. Yes! Now we can "easily" make a Spanish Civil War machine! (Anybody know of good decals for the Republicans that I can use on the I-16?) And, to the related Atlee news, is the release of cockpit sets for the Eduard Albatros C.III and Hannover Cl.IIIa!! According to Barry, these replace the "flat parts" to give a better 3D representation. He mentioned a couple of the parts, but with all the excitement going on, I didn't retain the parts. Ah, the joys of modeling! The Albatros interior is $5.00 and the Hannover is $6.50. Also, for those who don't know, Atlee's stuff is resin, but some of the better resin you'll find. (If I remember correctly, someone had the Atlee interior for the LTD PZL-11 and wasn't impressed. I have the early BMW Fokker D.VII conversion, and am greatly impressed. In other words, use your own judgement. In all honesty, the best resin I've seen anywhere is in the TC Berg kits.) Matt -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Matthew Bittner WW1 Modeler, ecto subscriber meba@cso.com PowerBuilder developer; Omaha, Nebraska Disclaimer: opinions expressed by me are my responsibility only. "Ex-lovers make great speed bumps" - Bumper Sticker -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:18:09 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum Message-ID: To continue a thread: >>I've come across an August 1968 issue of Flying Review International >>which has an article towards the end listing a number of vintage and >>veteran aircraft which finished up in Poland following WWII. All (most?) >>of these aircraft were displayed at the Berlin Air Museum. >> >>Does anyone have any idea of their current status? >> >>Some of the more interesting items appear below: > >Well, according to my 1978 edition of 'Veteran and vintage Aircraft, >the 1978 status of these aircraft was: > >> >>Albatros B.IIa, C.I -both there in 1978- C.I was 197/15 I believe that there was a photo in a Windsock issue a couple of years back showing this aircraft restored in Polish markings with a brown and green camo scheme. >>AEG "Euler" -there in 1978- >>Aviatik C.III -there in 1978 - C.1225/17 >>de Havilland D.H.9A -there in 1978 - Liberty engine, F.1010 This airframe has been restored. It required the manufacture of replica wings but is now complete. There were pieces about it in some British av magazines (Aeroplane Monthly etc.) I don't recall where it ended up, in Poland or in the UK ?? >>DFW C.V -there in 1978 - C.17077/17, Aviatik built >>LVG C.II -listed as a B.II, no number >>Messerschmitt Me 209 V1 -there in 1978 - V-1, D-INJR >>Rolland D.VIb -there in 1978 - 2225/18 tail-less but > in 'fair' condition As related in another post, the fuselage is restored but ther are no wings for this machine (are these to be made ??) >>Rumpler Taube -there in 1978, Austrian markings >>Sopwith Camel F.1 -there in 1978, B7280, 210 Sqn RAF The fuselage has been restored and is on display. An interesting article on this restoration was published in the Polish journal "Militaria" sadly only the photo captions are in english. > >Others WW1-types listed for the Krakow facility in 1978 were: > >Albatros H.1 (1920's modified Siemans Schukert DIV) In process of restoration as reported in World War One Aeroplanes. >Geeste Mowe (1913-vintage Taube) >Grigorovitch M.15 (1917 Russian flying boat) This airframe is restored and on display, there is a photo of it in a recent WW I Aeroplanes, I think. >Halberstadt CL.II 1545 9/17 (???) A photo of this dilapidated airframe has recently been published (WWI Aero ??) recently, it is unrestored and still has the painted legend on its fuselage from its days in the Berlin Museum. >Jeanin Taube (1914 Taube) >Farman F.4 (replica) >Antoinette (1910 edition, no other info provided) This is what I recall from the top of my head, my apologies for the lack of more specific detail. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:26:13 -0600 From: iceman@ro.com (Eli Geher) To: wwi Subject: Re: Aircraft from Berlin Air Museum Message-ID: <199602261726.LAA30570@sh1.ro.com> >Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to how one might go about >organising to get a look at any of these aircraft?? > >Rob > The old fashioned way is to write a letter to the museum and request an appointment to do research. Its generally worked for me. The problem is that Poland isn't close enough for a casual trip. The address and contacts for the museum have been published recently in both WWI Aero and Windsock ,in connection with their Roland and Albatros/Siemens restorations. The people involved appear to extremely enthusiastic and would probably be overjoyed to show off their stuff to fellow enthusiasts. Eli Geher ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 45 ********************