WWI Digest 31 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) DML Camel by mnelson@compusmart.ab.ca (Mark K. Nelson) 2) Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by mnelson@compusmart.ab.ca (Mark K. Nelson) 3) Fabric and ribs by SDW@qld.mim.com.au 4) Re: DML Camel by Jose Valenciano 5) Props- a finished product. by Robert Woodbury 6) Aeroclub 1/48 FE.2b by Robert Woodbury 7) RE: Orthochromatic film by SDW@qld.mim.com.au 8) PC10 by NPWE28A@prodigy.com (LCDR KENNETH L HAGERUP) 9) Re: Glencoe Albatros by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 10) FE-2b cockpit/engine colors by "S.M. Head" 11) just a test! by bshatzer@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Bill Shatzer) 12) Re: DML Camel by "Matt Bittner" 13) Stick/aileron question by "Matt Bittner" 14) League of World War I Aviation Historians Journal and Seminar (fwd) by aew (Allan Wright) 15) Re[2]: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by "STEVE HUSTAD" 16) All quiet on the WW I modeling list by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 17) Siemens-Schukert D-I by aew (Allan Wright) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:49:05 -0700 From: mnelson@compusmart.ab.ca (Mark K. Nelson) To: wwi Subject: DML Camel Message-ID: To (partially) dispell a nasty rumor circulated a few weeks back. . . A 2-page document entitled 'Dragon 1996 Line Up' which I pulled out of a box of models at work on thursday lists kit number 5910 Sopwith Camel with the date T.B.A. (The list was from Mikerian - the Northern branch of Hasegawa/DML/Marco Polo, etc. . . ) Oh, yeah, I'd buy a 1/48 Brisfit, too. _____________________________________________________________________ Mark (An Employee at Kites & Other Delights in West Edmonton Mall) ------------------------ mnelson@compusmart.ab.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:52:53 -0700 From: mnelson@compusmart.ab.ca (Mark K. Nelson) To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: >A friend was at the Paris model show and saw a test shot of the Eduard D.V. > He said that Eduard has started using a better mold technology and "you''' >have a hard time telling this from a major-manufacturer kit". . . - Jim The Classic Airframes (Eduard by all appearances) B.P. Defiant may show evidence of this with much less flash than usual, and some very fine panel work. . . _____________________________________________________________________ Mark (An Employee at Kites & Other Delights in West Edmonton Mall) ------------------------ mnelson@compusmart.ab.ca ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 96 08:26:00 EST From: SDW@qld.mim.com.au To: wwi%pease1.sr.unh.edu@teksup.mim.com.au Subject: Fabric and ribs Message-ID: <199602112246.IAA16951@mimmon.mim.com.au> While I was sleeping, Steve H. posted: > Still,....... too bad that there *STILL* is no decent kit of the > Fokker Dr.I on the market yet! > (Witness DML's wing undersurfaces in 1/48, and Revell's *ancient* > offering in 1/72, both of which are the best in their respective > scales!) Some considerable time ago in cyberspace, we discussed the issue of whether DML might actually have got it *right* by reversing the generally accepted (by modellers) contours of the Dr.I wing undersurfaces. Someone - Bill S ? - made a case for DML and most others howled him down. However I have recently seen, in this list, an item of evidence in his favour. A few weeks back someone (Joey??) posted about representing the eyelets found along the trailing edge undersurfaces of fabric covered wings. They are inserted there to allow condensation to drain, rather than sloshing about inside rotting the fabric and structure of the wing. The description noted that the eyelets were inserted at the outboard side of the rib on aircraft with dihedral (that being the low point of the area between the ribs) and........ In the _CENTRE_ of the fabric on wings lacking dihedral. I have done a little research and found an article by Ian D Huntley which confirms this interpretation. Now why would the eyelet be in the centre of the inter-rib space if this was the top of the curve - as shown on most kits? The condensate would gather along the ribs to both sides, and the eyelet would be useless. I still don't know for sure, but this seems like an item of evidence in DML's favour. It occurs to me to ask the flying scale fraternity: On the undersurface of the wing, particularly with a significantly concave surface, which way does the fabric covering of your models curve between the ribs? If you don't mind, put a straightedge over one and let us know whether it differs much from leading edge to trailing edge. Or simplest of all, do the undersurface ribs appear as bumps or troughs. Regards Shane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 07:26:18 +0800 (HKT) From: Jose Valenciano To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DML Camel Message-ID: On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Mark K. Nelson wrote: > To (partially) dispell a nasty rumor circulated a few weeks back. . . > > A 2-page document entitled 'Dragon 1996 Line Up' which I pulled out of a > box of models at work on thursday lists kit number 5910 Sopwith Camel with > the date T.B.A. > > (The list was from Mikerian - the Northern branch of Hasegawa/DML/Marco > Polo, etc. . . ) > > Oh, yeah, I'd buy a 1/48 Brisfit, too. I hear their Zeppelin Staaken (1/48) will be very good too!? ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:06:32 -0500 From: Robert Woodbury To: wwi Subject: Props- a finished product. Message-ID: <311F4968.5BE6@per.dwr.csiro.au> Hi All, Thanks for all of your help on Making Wooden Props. I had a go at it over the weekend and for my first attempt I am very happy with the results. Okay, I didn,t get the angles quite right, but that's something I can work on. So now my 1/48 Fokker E.V/D.VIII has a real wooden prop. Would I do it again? For sure! Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:56:58 -0500 From: Robert Woodbury To: wwi Subject: Aeroclub 1/48 FE.2b Message-ID: <311F553A.2818@per.dwr.csiro.au> Hi Everyone, Just wondering if anyone was aware of the above mentioned kit? It was reviewed in the Jan issue of Scale Models International. It a was given a fairly favourable review. Anyone out there know anything about the kit? The price was about 25 pounds. Rob ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 96 13:59:00 EST From: SDW@qld.mim.com.au To: Hughto%aol.com@teksup.mim.com.au Cc: wwi%pease1.sr.unh.edu@teksup.mim.com.au Subject: RE: Orthochromatic film Message-ID: <199602120416.OAA20182@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hi Sean, You ask: >Often when people talk about aircraft colors and markings, they seem to take >orthochromatic film into account in trying to interpret the actual colors. > Does anyone know the general rules for such interpretations. In other >words, what are some of the common shifts and tricks that orthochromatic film >will give. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would be most >appreciative and maybe a little less lost as I stare at my Datafiles and try >to guess whether that cowl was red or black or green or ..... Some years ago (but not so long I've forgotten it completely) I made my shaky living through a period as a commercial photographer. Familiarity has become a little more like vague recollection but heres a brief description Ortho film, like black and white photographic paper, is insensitive to light in the orange to red end of the spectrum, so the negative is unaffected by light reflected from a red, or red-orange surface. That means that the film will be clear, and when the negative is printed the print will be black. Reasonably simple so far. However, colours are rarely made of pigment of absolute purity, so it is often possible to see black on red by the rather denser "black" on the print. Whats more, other colours aren't pure either, so greens can be "warm" (containing red) or "cold" (containing blue) and two greens of apparently identical darkness will photograph differently. It's worthwhile drawing an additive colour wheel, with primaries and secondaries when thinking on it Red | Yellow | Magenta | / \ / \ / \ / \ Green Blue Cyan So orthochromatic films of WW1 vintage were mostly insensitive to light in the Yellow-Red area. But look at the wheel and recognise that "green" is a spectrum of colours which range from cool blue-greens to warm yellow greens and "olives". Each pigment colour is a mix of light wavelengths at different points in the spectrum and NOT a pure colour found at a specific single point in the spectrum So greens, particularly olive will also be a darker colour than you might expect. The reverse of all this is the fact that early films were very sensitive to blue, and blue would reproduce almost as lightly as white. As with red/black it is usual to be able to distinguish them when juxtaposed, but unless they are painted one on the other you'll never tell the difference. Now add to this complication the fact that the sensitivity of even modern B&W film is not equal across the entire spectrum to which it IS sensitive, so equal amounts of (say) green light of slightly different colours might be interpreted slightly differently And lets not forget the effect of filters possibly used by the photographer to deliberately alter the tones in his shot. You can't use yellow/orange/red to darken the sky as you would with panchromatic film, so they sometimes used GREEN with who knows what effect on the relative saturation of the greens in the loz fabric. Having said all this let me deny utterly any expertise at interpreting colours from B&W prints. It is at best an arcane art without IMHO much in the way of certainty at any point. The best you can do is utilise it in concert with other evidence to deduce colours. For example, if it is known that Jasta "x" painted their interplane struts red and the factory finish is blue, then black struts are _probably_ red, and pale ones are _probably_ blue. In summary, the appearance of colours relative to their darkness as seen by the non-colour impaired human eye is: Red Orange Yellow Green Blue <-darker lighter -> I hope this helps, but I suspect it'll just make you as mystified as I am regards Shane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 00:15:51 EST From: NPWE28A@prodigy.com (LCDR KENNETH L HAGERUP) To: wwi Subject: PC10 Message-ID: <096.00953154.NPWE28A@prodigy.com> Anyone have any favorite color matches for PC10? I prefer enamels and have been using Testors Model Master SAC Bomber Tan. Ken Hagerup ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:26:03 -0800 From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: Glencoe Albatros Message-ID: <199602120526.VAA24929@bing.ncw.net> >On 02/09/96, Bill C. stated.... > >I've built the D.III (and survived). Yes, there was a lot of sanding >involved, but it was less work than trying to get the struts of the >Smer SVA-5 aligned. I've been stuck on this model since I joined the >list some months back. Whew...talk about "been there, done that"...I just finished my 2nd foray into Glencoe DIII masochism the other day. To my surprise, it turned out to look pretty good. True, there is one <<>> of a lot of filling and sanding to be done on the fuselage - especially in the cockpit and nose areas - but once you've spent a couple of weeks of your spare time with putty and sandpaper, turning the skin of your fingers into something resembling an iguana hide - it gets a lot better. Also, the Spandaus supplied are trash. I replaced them with Aeroclub's , they look 100% better. Finally, painted it up in a generic factory paint scheme and slapped on the Ottoman Turk decals I got from Americal, the scheme being loosely based on a plane shot down by RAFC pilot Ross Smith over Palestine. The moral of the story is this: the Glencoe DIII can be built into a very nice looking model, but it requires extraordinary patience. Anyone who's worked with Merlin kits much would probably be sufficiently prepared. Mark R. lothar@ncw.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 02:56:44 -0500 From: "S.M. Head" To: wwi Subject: FE-2b cockpit/engine colors Message-ID: <9602120153.aa17046@mail.iapc.net> A question came to me via the Scale Model Forum Web page- can anyone help?: >I wish to construct Aeroclub's FE-2b WWI British fighter. However, I can not >find any color information on the cockpit or engine areas. I am writing in >hopes that someone may be able to help me. Thank you. I'll also push this mailing list to him, since we all are quite a nice bunch! ;) Thanks, Scott Head Statement- "The internet is like an unending tree of sprue, linking one component to the next..." -- Newsgroup post Reply: "That's stretching it." -- Shot Cadet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 00:10:10 -0800 From: bshatzer@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: just a test! Message-ID: <199602120810.AA13726@ednet1.osl.or.gov> Don't bother to reply to this. My system has been down because of the Great Flood of 1996 and is just now slowly putting the pieces back together. This is just a check to see if I can once again send to and receive from the list. Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - "Cave ab homine unius libri!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 07:06:54 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: DML Camel Message-ID: <199602120708.HAA22523@cso.com> On 10 Feb 96 at 16:57, Mark K. Nelson typed diligently: > To (partially) dispell a nasty rumor circulated a few weeks back. . . > > A 2-page document entitled 'Dragon 1996 Line Up' which I pulled > out of a box of models at work on thursday lists kit number 5910 > Sopwith Camel with the date T.B.A. That's great news! Thanks for dispelling the rumor. > Oh, yeah, I'd buy a 1/48 Brisfit, too. Ya know, I think I would too. Even if it's 1/48th. Heck, I'd buy a "better" 1/72nd, for that matter. ;-) Matt -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Matthew Bittner WW1 Modeler, ecto subscriber, semi-new dad, meba@cso.com PowerBuilder developer; Omaha, Nebraska Disclaimer: opinions expressed by me are my responsibility only. "You cannot make anything foolproof, because the fools are so ingenious." - Christian Walters -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 07:06:55 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: WW1 Modelers Subject: Stick/aileron question Message-ID: <199602120708.HAA22532@cso.com> Wrench, et.al., I working again on my Nie.11 conversion, I had to pop the ailerons off. Could someone help my memory: if the stick is to the right, which way should the ailerons be? Port up/down? Starboard up/down? TIA. Matt -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Matthew Bittner WW1 Modeler, ecto subscriber, semi-new dad, meba@cso.com PowerBuilder developer; Omaha, Nebraska Disclaimer: opinions expressed by me are my responsibility only. "You cannot make anything foolproof, because the fools are so ingenious." - Christian Walters -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:40:06 -0500 (EST) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: League of World War I Aviation Historians Journal and Seminar (fwd) Message-ID: <199602121440.JAA06350@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Forwarded message: Dear Mr. Wright: Am new to the internet and have been working my way through the variety of WWI listings over the last few days. You are to be congratulated on the mass of activity on your site and I'm hopeful you'll be interested in the League of World War I Aviation Historian's journal, Over The Front, and the League's upcoming seminar and WWI aircraft modeling contest. Over The Front began in 1986 and is currently in its 11th year of publishing what we're proud to consider the best WWI aviation journal in the business. The journal appears quarterly and includes regular feature articles on aircrew, squadrons, aircraft, colors and markings, and the whole gamut of Great War aviation information. A membership in the League is $37 per year. Checks should be payable to The League of World War I Aviation Historians and mailed to P.O. Box 2475, Rockford, IL 61132-0475. We are also sponsoring a seminar on WWI aviation (our fifth), on 21/22 June at the Holiday Inn Capitol, 550 'C' St., Washington, D.C. The program will include presentations by Alex Revell, Peter Grosz, John Morrow, Carl Bobrow, Tom Crouch and Don Lopez. There will be a tour of the NASM Paul Garber Restoration Facility at Silver Hill and, of special interest to your site's visitors, a WWI aircraft modeling contest. Registration for the seminar is $150, but if you choose, you can enter the modeling contest without attending the entire seminar. Registration for the contest for non-League members is $15, or $10 if the contestant is 16 years old or younger. Hope you can help us spread the word a little. If I can answer any questions about the League, Over The Front, or the seminar or modeling contest, I'm at N69Y@msn.cm until 7 March, or at JSTRECKFUS@aol.com regularly. Thanks!! James Streckfuss ------------------------------ Date: 12 Feb 1996 08:58:08 GMT From: "STEVE HUSTAD" To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: On the Eduard mold technology thread; I'm not at all surprised by this (below) announcement. The new Eduard 1/72 Fokker D.VIII has plastic moldings that are obviously far superior than anything I've seen out of them before to date. I'll have to pick up another dozen kits now I guess! :-) (The lozenge decals they provide are completely 'off' though). Steve H. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >A friend was at the Paris model show and saw a test shot of the Eduard D.V. > He said that Eduard has started using a better mold technology and "you''' >have a hard time telling this from a major-manufacturer kit". . . - Jim The Classic Airframes (Eduard by all appearances) B.P. Defiant may show evidence of this with much less flash than usual, and some very fine panel work. . . _____________________________________________________________________ Mark (An Employee at Kites & Other Delights in West Edmonton Mall) ------------------------ mnelson@compusmart.ab.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 11:50:41 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: All quiet on the WW I modeling list Message-ID: Hello All, Is everyone asleep ?? Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 13:33:39 -0500 (EST) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Siemens-Schukert D-I Message-ID: <199602121833.NAA08782@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Hello, Does anyone have any idea when the first of the Siemens-Schukert D-I (Nieuport 17 clones) aircraft made it to combat units? -Allan =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | I'm not left handed either! - The Man in Black University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling Mosaic Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 31 ********************