WWI Digest 299 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: WW1 Books for sale by aero@baynet.net (Jim Lyzun) 2) Friday, 20 October 1916, Cazaux by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 3) Anyone interested in WW I German aircraft colors & markings? by "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" 4) Re[4]: Richtofen & Brown by "Shelley Goodwin" 5) Re[6]: Reference Material by "Shelley Goodwin" 6) Re: Fokker Dr.1 Turquoise by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 7) Re: Re[4]: Richtofen & Brown by Mark Lawrence Shannon 8) Movie reviews by "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" 9) Re: Fokker Dr.1 Turquoise by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 10) Re: WW1 Books for sale by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 11) Re: IPMS Quterly & Updates by SOPWITH@worldnet.att.net 12) Re: WW1 Books for sale by SOPWITH@worldnet.att.net 13) Re: Halberstadt Hot Flash by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 14) Re: Movie reviews by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 15) Re: Movie reviews by Alberto Rada 16) Books by Alberto Rada 17) Re: Re[4]: Richtofen & Brown by bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 18) Re: IPMS Quterly & Updates by aero@baynet.net (Jim Lyzun) 19) Re: Movie reviews by DavidL1217@aol.com 20) Large Scale kits by Shane Weier ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 09:12:21 -0400 From: aero@baynet.net (Jim Lyzun) To: wwi Subject: Re: WW1 Books for sale Message-ID: <199610201312.JAA26967@focus.baynet.net> >>Can also list some WW2 material including some Harleyford books. Regards. >> >>Derek Frost >> Would like to know what these may be. Jim Lyzun ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 12:20:35 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Friday, 20 October 1916, Cazaux Message-ID: <326A7B83.F92@host.dmsc.net> Fair day. Usual work on ranges all day. May not be able to get leave to Paris next weekend after all as Colonel will have to agree to it. Captain will let us know tomorrow. Letter from Dear little Mother saying she'd rec'd my photo I sent in early September. Hope all the rest that I sent over thave reached their destination, particularly the one to darling Gerty. Wrote to Helen H. in evening tired so turned in rather early for good sleep. ************************* from the diaries of E.C.C. Genet, Escadrille Lafayette ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 12:47:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" To: wwi Subject: Anyone interested in WW I German aircraft colors & markings? Message-ID: <961020124735.22a72a2c@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> If so, here's an interesting description: "Albatros Scout [D.V], red nose, black rudder, white fuselage, dark wings." On 9 October 1917, this aircraft was attacked by [then] 2/Lt Guy B. Moore in Nieuport Scout B.1508 of No. 1 Squadron, RFC. Moore's combat report states (as part of the general fight over Gheluwe at 1330 hours): "Then, seeing two E.A. Scouts on 2/Lt Peacock's tail [NO PUN INTENDED!!!], I attacked and drove both off. Following one, I fired 50 rounds into it. E.A. stalled, then went over on his back, fell into a spin and went down and crashed [at] about Kaelberg." Peacock was shot down by Ltn. Franz Mueller (Jasta 11), who made it back. So, despite the red and other dark colors, Albatros was "very likely" that of Ltn.d.Res. Richard Wagner of Jasta 26, who was killed in that fight. Might make an interesting model. Just a thought. PK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 11:28:56 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[4]: Richtofen & Brown Message-ID: <9609208458.AA845836118@mx.Ricochet.net> Anonymous WWI air movie critic, How would you rate Blue Max or The Great Waldo Pepper? Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Richtofen & Brown Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 10/19/96 3:15 PM The script stunk, and MvR had long hair. Obviously a '70's movie wherein the actor had more concern for his image rather than playing the role. A real turkey! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 96 11:21:34 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[6]: Reference Material Message-ID: <9609208458.AA845836109@mx.Ricochet.net> Saw that-kinda slow-moving, but pretty cool. Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[4]: Reference Material Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 10/19/96 3:20 PM How about Michael York In "Riddle of the Sands?" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:21:24 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker Dr.1 Turquoise Message-ID: >>-- [ From: Kenneth Hagerup * EMC.Ver #2.5.1 ] -- >> >>Looking through the JG1 Special, I was struck with the idea that the >>dark blue turquoise on the undersurfaces of Dr.1s looks very similar to >>the USN early WWII Blue Grey (~FS35189). Both Floquil and Testors Model >>Master II have this color in enamels. Has anyone a better match for >>this color? > Bill Shatzer continues: >Well, I'm not sure anyone really knows for sure on this. The surviving >fabric samples are nearly 80 years old and I'm not sure the "turquoise" >was necessarily identical from aircraft to aircraft in any case. My question is who posesses authentic pieces of triplane fabric ? And where can I find a photo of said fabric ? Lacking any primary reference material of surviving paint chips or painted fabric, determining the "exact" color any Fokker Dr-I was painted is an exercise in rampant speculation. Indeed, I would like to know myself what colors were used on this type of aircraft, but from all I have seen in many years of reading and research on WW I aircraft colors is a lot of recycling of old data from unverifiable sources. I believe that the overall descriptions of triplane schemes is reasonable given interpretation from old black and white photos. But unless someone comes up with an authentic piece of material I think we have little need to worry about matching to FS, RLM, Methuen or any other standard, its like trying to nail waves to a beach. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 14:28:38 -0700 From: Mark Lawrence Shannon To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[4]: Richtofen & Brown Message-ID: <326A9986.2E77@ix.netcom.com> Shelley Goodwin wrote: > > Anonymous WWI air movie critic, > > How would you rate Blue Max or The Great Waldo Pepper? > > Riordan > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: Re: Re[2]: Richtofen & Brown > Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet > Date: 10/19/96 3:15 PM > > The script stunk, and MvR had long hair. Obviously a '70's movie wherein the > actor had more concern for his image rather than playing the role. > > A real turkey! -- Blue Max wasn't out and out horrible, just had as many cliches as a remake of Beau Gest! It also had some rather horrid anacronisms (e.g., Peppard's squadron is flying Fokker D.VII's and Pfalz's -- and MvR shows up in his triplane, which he was flying at the time because he had no good replacement while waiting for the D.VII) it also had Peppard's character getting the Blue Max at twenty kills -- like it was a set requirement. The Great Waldo Pepper irritated me. Basically, the title character and most of those around him were all wound up in the attitude of having to beat everyone and prove who's better once and for all. If it were presented as an indictment of that attitude, it would be one thing, but it was more of a benediction on it. -- This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon at Shingend@ix.netcom.com The good thing about being a pessimist is -- it lets you be pleasantly surprised -- on rare occasions. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:15:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" To: wwi Subject: Movie reviews Message-ID: <961020161544.22a5a1c3@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> In response to: >Anonymous WWI air movie critic, >How would you rate Blue Max or The Great Waldo Pepper? = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = No doubt that "Richthofen and Brown" was not worth much (unless I missed the footnote explaining the use of Fokker D.VIIs and lozenge-covered Pfalz D.IIIs -- and earlier in the war, at that). But I found "The Blue Max" and "The Great Waldo Pepper" to have some redeeming social values. If you can put aside (for a moment) the goofey markings and other boo-boos, "TBM" had some fine moments, which my clever kids must have realized when they gave me the tape a few Christmases ago. Just the "feel" of the airfield scenes, some of the combat stuff and ALL of the stunt- flying (which, as I recall from an old magazine article, was done by a team of women pilots). And the *image* of Carl Schell as MvR sure seemed to be right on the mark. Then -- joy of joys! -- there is the MUSIC from "Blue Max," which came out on an original soundtrack recording and was re-released (on 33 rpm vinyl) in recent years. Spectacular stuff -- though I wouldn't recommend listening to it when doing some of the delicate stuff you folks do with plastic and allied implements of wizardry. And don't take my word for it! Paul Straehle, former CO of Jasta 18, bubbled over when we discussed it. Sure, he laughed at the Bruno character romancing the General's wife -- but saw a lot of truth in other scenes. Again, with "The Great Waldo Pepper," there was a great, almost gritty feel to it. I took Carl Dixon, one of my old flier friends (who had been a WW I pilotr AND a barnstormer -- and he loved it. The actor who played the "Udet" looked so much like the original it was spooky. Thank goodness, some genius in Hollywood remembered to offer a soundtrack album with TGWP music. More great stuff. Let's face it, folks, Hollywood (or any other film capitol) is not going to make anything 100% on the mark -- since the accent is MONEY and they go for what sells -- so try to find the joy that IS there. The recent Young Indiana Jones epsode, for instance, had some inspired scenes in it. The zepps and big bombers HAD to be models or computer-generated -- but, who cares? They were great. The Nungessor character was great. The MvR character lacked only a monocle and a dueling scar to complete the bizarre caricature he was. But, who said it was supposed to be serious? Park your brains under your chair and sit back and be entertained. PK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 14:05:20 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker Dr.1 Turquoise Message-ID: <199610202105.AA28304@ednet1.orednet.org> Charles wrote: > My question is who posesses authentic pieces of triplane fabric ? >And where can I find a photo of said fabric ? Lacking any primary >reference material of surviving paint chips or painted fabric, determining >the "exact" color any Fokker Dr-I was painted is an exercise in rampant >speculation. Indeed, I would like to know myself what colors were used on >this type of aircraft, but from all I have seen in many years of reading >and research on WW I aircraft colors is a lot of recycling of old data from >unverifiable sources. I'm not sure there are any surviving samples of undersurface fabrics from Dr.I's. in the "turquoise" (although I seem to recall one of the samples from MvR's 425/17 is of an undersurface cross - no help that though on the "turquoise" color.) But I think there are some surviving undersurface farbric samples from D.VII's in the pre-lozenge paint schemes. I am guessing that folks are extrapolating from the D.VII color and assuming it is the same as on the Dr.I - not an unreasonable assumption. > I believe that the overall descriptions of triplane schemes is >reasonable given interpretation from old black and white photos. But >unless someone comes up with an authentic piece of material I think we have >little need to worry about matching to FS, RLM, Methuen or any other >standard, its like trying to nail waves to a beach. I agree most completely. There are few WW1 colors which are firmly fixed to a specific color specification and, even with those that are, given the somewhat primative natures of early aircraft dopes and their propensity to fade, weather, and change shades due to environmental conditions during application and afterwards, no one can be positive that the color of the specification was the actual color on a particular aircraft. A pink Fokker might raise eyebrows - other than that, if you are in the general color range, you're probably safe from the color police. Cheers, -- -Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org- "Listen - strange women lying around in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 14:14:19 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: WW1 Books for sale Message-ID: <199610202114.AA01273@ednet1.orednet.org> >>>Can also list some WW2 material including some Harleyford books. Regards. >>> >>>Derek Frost >>> > >Would like to know what these may be. >Jim Lyzun A series of WW1 aviation books first published in Britain in the late 50's/early 60's - three volumes on aircraft (fighters, bombers/recces, and maritine aircraft, I believe) plus a volume on Aces ("Air Aces of the 1914-1918 War") and a MvR book ("Von Richthofen and the Flying Circus") Any others? A lot of the information is dated and inaccurate in light of more recent research and the three-view drawings of the various aircraft are sometimes in accurate. Yet, still volumes well worth having if you can get 'em at a reasonable price. Cheers, -- -Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org- "Listen - strange women lying around in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:27:23 +0000 From: SOPWITH@worldnet.att.net To: wwi Subject: Re: IPMS Quterly & Updates Message-ID: <19961020212721.AAA15461@LOCALNAME> We are selling for one of our local area modelers some old IPMS Quaterly and Updates magazines. The subjects are mostly WWII to present. I though some of you might be interested. Quaterly Volume 19 issues 1-4 cpt Volume 20 " " " Volume 21 " " " Volume 22 issue 1 13 issues in all $20. + 3 postage or $1.75 each +$1.00 postage for the first + .32c for each additional one. Updates Volume 19, # 4, 5, 6 Volume 20, # 1, 4, 5, 6 Volume 21, # 3, 4, 5, 6 Volume 24, # 4, 5/6 13 issues all for $7.00 + $3.00 postage. Each $1.00 + $1.00 postafge for the first & .32c for each additional one. There's no profit for us. Mail your check to H. Guaty C/O Sopwith Hobbies P.O. Box 560442 Miami, Fl. 33256 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:33:08 +0000 From: SOPWITH@worldnet.att.net To: wwi Subject: Re: WW1 Books for sale Message-ID: <19961020213305.AAA17656@LOCALNAME> At 09:14 PM 10/20/96 +0000, you wrote: > > > >>>>Can also list some WW2 material including some Harleyford books. Regards. >>>> >>>>Derek Frost >>>> >> > Can you please list them or send their description directly to us by e-mail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:25:26 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Halberstadt Hot Flash Message-ID: >I just received a letter and an order form from Ray Rimell. Albatros has >just released a special on the Halberstadt D types. >1/72 & 1/48 drawings >48 pages >8 colour profiles >90 documentary photos >Written by Peter Grosz >Price #13.95 >This is released under a new selection "Classics of WWI Aviation" >At the Over the Front seminar, Peter spoke very favourably about the type. > It will be a very popular title. Now to check the exchange rates! As of last Thursday (most recent quote I could find) the rate was $1.58712/1.00 pound, making the price of this book US$ 22.140324, if you buy it direct, not including postage and bank fees. For those that are interested, a Web site where exchange quotes can be found is: http://pacific.commerce.ubc.ca/xr/today.html Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 19:56:37 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Re: Movie reviews Message-ID: <326AE665.61CD@host.dmsc.net> PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791 wrote: > > In response to: > > >Anonymous WWI air movie critic, > > >How would you rate Blue Max or The Great Waldo Pepper? > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > No doubt that "Richthofen and Brown" was not worth much (unless I > missed the footnote explaining the use of Fokker D.VIIs and lozenge-covered > Pfalz D.IIIs -- and earlier in the war, at that). > > But I found "The Blue Max" and "The Great Waldo Pepper" to have some > redeeming social values. If you can put aside (for a moment) the goofey > markings and other boo-boos, "TBM" had some fine moments, which my clever kids > must have realized when they gave me the tape a few Christmases ago. Just the > "feel" of the airfield scenes, some of the combat stuff and ALL of the stunt- > flying (which, as I recall from an old magazine article, was done by a team > of women pilots). And the *image* of Carl Schell as MvR sure seemed to be > right on the mark. Then -- joy of joys! -- there is the MUSIC from "Blue Max," > which came out on an original soundtrack recording and was re-released (on 33 > rpm vinyl) in recent years. Spectacular stuff -- though I wouldn't recommend > listening to it when doing some of the delicate stuff you folks do with plastic > and allied implements of wizardry. > > And don't take my word for it! Paul Straehle, former CO of Jasta 18, > bubbled over when we discussed it. Sure, he laughed at the Bruno character > romancing the General's wife -- but saw a lot of truth in other scenes. > > Again, with "The Great Waldo Pepper," there was a great, almost gritty > feel to it. I took Carl Dixon, one of my old flier friends (who had been a > WW I pilotr AND a barnstormer -- and he loved it. The actor who played the > "Udet" looked so much like the original it was spooky. Thank goodness, some > genius in Hollywood remembered to offer a soundtrack album with TGWP music. > More great stuff. > > Let's face it, folks, Hollywood (or any other film capitol) is not > going to make anything 100% on the mark -- since the accent is MONEY and > they go for what sells -- so try to find the joy that IS there. The recent > Young Indiana Jones epsode, for instance, had some inspired scenes in it. > The zepps and big bombers HAD to be models or computer-generated -- but, who > cares? They were great. The Nungessor character was great. The MvR character > lacked only a monocle and a dueling scar to complete the bizarre caricature he > was. But, who said it was supposed to be serious? Park your brains under your > chair and sit back and be entertained. > > PK Hooray for Peter! Shameless child that I am, I love them all and rewatch them every chance I get. I also think Waldo Pepper explored-- very effectively-- the theme of individual freedom in the age of technology-- the passing of the first generation of fliers, and how vastly different in outlook was the generation that succeeded them. It also encapsulated the emotions of those men who just missed getting to the Front before the war ended-- for many of them, it was a galling disappointment that haunted them the rest of their lives. The Pepper character captures that emotion very well-- while the Udet character captures another post-war syndrome-- the successful soldier who can never quite adjust to the post-war world. I thought both characters were excellently portrayed, and I thought it particularly compelling that, though one was an untested romantic and the other a jaundiced veteran, they shared certain crucial attitudes towards freedom, death and dignity. Bradley ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:30:02 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Movie reviews Message-ID: <199610210130.VAA08854@fw.true.net> At 04:14 PM 10/20/96 -0400, you wrote: . The recent >Young Indiana Jones epsode, for instance, had some inspired scenes in it. >The zepps and big bombers HAD to be models or computer-generated -- but, who >cares? They were great. The Nungessor character was great. The MvR character >lacked only a monocle and a dueling scar to complete the bizarre caricature he >was. But, who said it was supposed to be serious? Park your brains under your >chair and sit back and be entertained. > >PK > > What number is this episode ? Saludos Alberto ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 21:54:02 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Books Message-ID: <199610210154.VAA09214@fw.true.net> I have the opportunity of purchasing these books, but know very little about them, can you give me any comment on the ones you have read ? I will much appreciate it, just to spend the money where it is worth. Apostolo & Abate .- CAPRONI NELLA PRIMA GUERRA MONDIALE Biddle, C.J. .- THE WAY OF THE EAGLE Gann, E. .- IN THE COMPANY OF EAGLES Hammerton J. WAR IN THE AIR Isaacs, K. .- MILITARY AIRCRAFT OF AUSTRALIA 1909 - 1918 Kennett, L .- THE FIRST AIR WAR Longstreet, S. .- THE CANVAS FALCONS McCudden, J. FLYING FURY Platt, F.C. .- GREAT BATTLES OF WWI Pulitzer, R. OVER THE FRONT IN AN AEROPLANE Rolt-Wheeler, F. .- THE WONDER OF WAR IN THE AIR Schaedel, C. .- MEN AND MACHINES OF THE AUSTRALIAN FLYING CORPS 1914-19 Saith, F.E. A KILLING FOR THE HAWKS Springs E. W. NOCTURNE MILITAIRE Tanner BRITISH MILITARY AIRCRAFT OF WWI GRACIAS and SALUDOS ALBERTO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 22:30:19 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@mail.prolog.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re[4]: Richtofen & Brown Message-ID: <199610210230.WAA24579@ns1.ptd.net> At 02:34 PM 10/20/96 -0400, Shelley Goodwin wrote: > Anonymous WWI air movie critic, > > How would you rate Blue Max or The Great Waldo Pepper? I'm not the anonymous critic, but here my thumb for what it's worth. I still like the Blue Max. I know that a lot of the planes, etc. are off base(ie. Stachel excitedly taking the triplane to flame some balloons instead of the DVII). Still, if you sit back and just try to soak up the moovie it is not too bad. Badly acted in some parts, but it does seem to combine th romance of the period with some of the more harsher realities we want in our movies. One thing I did enjoy was the way the flying scenes showedn how a lozenge fabric would sort of disappear. I was trying to explain to my daughter why the lozenge was used and couldn't. So, we popped in the tape and she could sort of see how it worked, even if the colors weren't completely accurate. I also enjoyed the scene where they were balloon busting. The observers looked accurate and acted the way I suspect someone acts when a plane is booring in to fry you. Waldo Pepper just confused me an awful lot. Mike Muth nb: Glencoe Pfalz....gave up rigging the damned 1/72 SE5a for awhile ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 23:14:42 -0400 From: aero@baynet.net (Jim Lyzun) To: wwi Subject: Re: IPMS Quterly & Updates Message-ID: <199610210314.XAA25931@focus.baynet.net> >We are selling for one of our local area modelers some old IPMS Quaterly and >Updates magazines. The subjects are mostly WWII to present. I though some of >you might be interested. > > Quaterly Volume 19 issues 1-4 cpt > Volume 20 " " " > Volume 21 " " " > Volume 22 issue 1 > 13 issues in all $20. + 3 postage or $1.75 each +$1.00 postage for >the first + .32c for each additional one. I'd be interested in vol 21 regards, Jim Lyzun ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 23:50:07 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Movie reviews Message-ID: <961020235006_337979484@emout16.mail.aol.com> All of the Indiana Jones episdoes are comic books. I am sure that Lucas meant it to be that way. I like the way that Richthofen refered to his 'trusty Albatros'. Fun Schtuff. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:19:50 +1100 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi'" Subject: Large Scale kits Message-ID: <01BBBF5A.EC9E9BC0@pc087b.mim.com.au> Hello all, I've just received an email from a countryman of mine who wants to build a larger (1/28, 1/32) scale WW1 kit for his collection. He's passed a couple of queries to me which I (and this is *difficult* to admit) don't know how to answer. So please, I'd appreciate any comment from those of you with experience or opinions on the following Jeff asks: >Being a somewhat non-aficionado when it comes to WW1, but nonetheless >wanting a rather large biplane to adorn the shelves, I wonder if you have >any comments regarding the 1/32nd Hobbycraft kits of the Camel >(specifically), Nieuport, and Spad. I've read reviews on the 1/28th Revell >series (and dimly remember struggling with the Dr1 back when I was a much >younger slam 'em together modeller), but I've not seen anything on the >Hobbycraft kits. >If you happen to know of any after market bits and pieces, and/or decal >sheets available for the Camel (or the Revell kits even), I'd appreciate >those tid-bits too. Incidentally Jeff claims to be a WW2 specialist, but he's building a tweener, and contemplating a REAL plane so he's probably worth my propagandising again !!! Shane ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 299 *********************