WWI Digest 29 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Plastic model production by The Flying Wrench 2) Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by The Flying Wrench 3) Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by The Flying Wrench 4) Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by The Flying Wrench 5) Re: Other WWI aircraft by The Flying Wrench 6) Re: Bristol Fighter? by The Flying Wrench 7) Re: IPMS-USA National Convention by The Flying Wrench 8) Re: faq's by Jose Valenciano 9) Eduard HB1 Help! by Jose Valenciano 10) Re: Vertical router by djones@iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) 11) WWI - Pornography? by The Flying Wrench 12) Re: IPMS-USA National Convention by "John P. Roll" 13) Whomakes the call by huggins@Onramp.NET (John Huggins) 14) Re: Eduard HB1 Help! by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 15) Re: Bristol Fighter? by SCLexicat@aol.com 16) Re: Whomakes the call by "Matt Bittner" 17) Re[2]: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by "STEVE HUSTAD" 18) Re: Glencoe Albatros by bciciora@pitneysoft.com (Bill Ciciora) 19) Datafiles by "Guy Fawcett (403) 435-7214" 20) Re: Datafiles by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 21) Re: Plastic model production by EGeher@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:24:54 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Plastic model production Message-ID: <199602082324.OAA20250@anchor> The Wrench gratefully acknowledges: >II. The Design of the Finished Part >In order to mold properly, the finished part must be close to constant >thickness and without re-entrant surfaces or hollow areas. Variations in >thickness cause uneven cooling in the mold and consequent problems known as >"sink marks" and warpage. Re-entrant surfaces make it difficult to eject the >cooled part from the mold. Hollow boxes simply can't be done in one piece. > The other problems can sometimes be dealt with by the mold designer or the >process engineer. I would like to hear more of the re-entrant problem and just how it results in sink marks and what these marks look like on the finished product. I would also like to hear your comments on the state of modern kits on the market today. Is there any new technology on the horizion that will result in a marked improvement on todays kits? >III. The Mold Design >The mold is not an exact replica of the finished part. Since plastics expand >and shrink at characteristic rates, the decision on what type and grade of >plastic to use must be made at this point. It isn't enough to say >'Polystrene'. The exact formulation can make a difference later on. The >mold cavity is cut oversize by a percentage determined by the plastic. > Ejector points are identified. Cooling provisions are incorporated, >including extra chill points where hot spots may be anticipated. The >resulting tool set is generally designed to fit a specific machine Is there any "standard" plastic on the market today. That is one that is utilized more commonly then others. Is there any way I can recognize a poor grade of plastic versus a high grade of plastic? What are some of the general features you look for in a kit when you buy? >IV. Mold Making >This was traditionally a highly skilled craft. Like many such, it is a dying >one, the victim of high labor costs. Today, it is either done by automated >precision machinery of awesome technology, or else it has fled to the low >wage parts of the earth. Enough said. Tthe subject is too sad to dwell on. I would assume the Japanese and perhaps Germany is in the former catagory and everyone else including America is in the second. Generally what is the state of American model production today? >V. The Test Shot >Molding houses generally have a test lab where an example of each of their >various production tools is used to set up the mold process. This is not a >science. Parts are molded and evaluated using different machine settings in >order to determine the fastest cycle time to achieve the best production >quality. Often, the mold tool is pulled and sent back for more shop work. > The part designer, the mold designer, the toolmaker and the process engineer >spend considerable time together, often in deep hostility. The production >manager, the CEO and the sales manager send them increasingly hostile memos. > Customers have heard about the new product being delayed (sometimes even >before its been announced) and are passing insulting and degrading messages >around on the internet. "This is the winter of our discontent". Some >products have been known to generate so many test shots that no production >was ever actually undertaken. (The Frog Ventura?) Does this mean there are actually kits that were test shot but never produced? These would seem to a fairly high value somewhat like a misprinted stamp. I try not to gripe as I am grateful that these kits exist at all. In fact I have often wondered how they ever came to be in the first place. But then Glenco produces an Albatros D.III and I can't contain myself. >The original creators are long gone. The original production machinery has >become obsolete and been scrapped out. The original hard won process >document may not be remotely compatible with the latest micro-processor >controlled, turbo-charged injection machine, and the original plastic >specified is no longer available from the manufacturer. The object of >reissue is to make a maximum profit from paid for tooling. Management >doesn't want to hear about 6 months worth of process development. They just >spent 2 weeks adapting the molds to the new machines and grinding off the >engraved insignia. "Now start producing! Everybody will be happy except a >few mouthy grouches who wouldn't be satisfied by anything that came on the >market" When you speak of machines I am a bit lost. I always had the impression that model molds were akin to somting on the order of currency plates. If you have the plates then you simply need a press to use them. Your description gives the impression that the moulds were integrated with the rest of the prduction machinery for the moulding process. Could you clarify this a bit please? > Overall I would say - Veeeeerrrrrrrrrry Interestinnnnng. An excellent treatse on the manufacturing process - I for one thank you. I will keep this in my file. I have a few more questions though: First, I would sure like to hear more about your background in Plastics. Were you in the model production arena? Did you see "The Graduate" just before to left college or what? Secondly I would sure like a descriptions of the flaws created by the production process. I ask this so that I might speak intelligently on the subject of plastic kits. I am always hearing about "ejector pin marks" and the like. I would like to know what these types of flaws look like so when I hear and read these descriptions I can recgonize what the person is talking about And what about the production politboro that WILSON, TIMOTHY wrote about, How is the decision made to produce yet another DR.I? I'm sure this question alone will turn many of the contributors on this forum into National Enquirer types. The Flyin' Wrench Inventor, n. A person who makes an ingenious arrangement of wheels, levers and springs, and believes it civilization. Ambrose Bierce - 1906 The Devil's Dictionary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:05:33 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: <199602090005.PAA21693@anchor> At 07:55 AM 2/8/96 -0500, Matt Bittner wrote: >On 7 Feb 96 at 22:40, The Flying Wrench typed diligently: > > > >> modify a kit's error then to build it from scratch. I suppose it is not >> unusual that probably the worst WWI kit I ever encountered was the Glenco >> D.V kit. Even the D.VIII which came on the scene in the eleventh hour of the > >Wow! You've actually built a Glencoe D.V? I thought they killed it >even before it hit the mold makers! Maybe you meant a D.III? > >I know that Glencoe was planning on releasing a D.V, but after the >D.III fiasco, I thought they killed the idea. The Flyin' Wrench recants" I am sorry to disappoint you, but it was a DIII. I was speaking of D.Vs at the time and ..... well it was a slip of the keyboard. I was so disgusted by this kit that I actually gave it away, with all 16 oz of bondo still on the nose. I just couldn't bring myself to Michelangelo the entire front end so there it sat ready for the inspired touch that would carve away everything that wasn't a D.III. It was the ugliest kit I have ever seen. They even split the horiziontal stabilizer for cris' sake and the two stab pieces didn't even match!. I am sorry I gave away the decals with the kit. Sure glad I didn't see their D.V it would have probably been all the more disappointing. Perhaps they were just testing us to see just how desperate we are for Albatros kits. Wrench ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:05:36 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: <199602090005.PAA21696@anchor> At 08:19 AM 2/8/96 -0500, WILSON, TIMOTHY wrote: The flyin' Wrench considers: >I keep wondering who decides what kits to issue. I mean, is there some >sort of Politburo that makes this decisions? > >Chairman: "We will issue the Fokker DrI yet again." >Lackeys: "Excellent choice, comrade." Good belly laugh here as that seems to be exactly the case. I can just see the mfg. marched off to Lubianaka prison for a stretch in the cooler for suggesting perhaps a Roland. I've seen enough of the music world to recognize the concept behind formula music; perhaps that is what we are encountering in the world of plactic - Formula plastic. "Hey! Moon unit, the first twenty two versions of the Dr.I we sold were a smash hit, so what say we produce another one, Get back with me - we'll do lunch." Gad! I just had a vision of a twenty two year old yuppie dink on a cell phone in his gold edition jeep making this decision. I still like your version better though, much funnier - comrade plastik modal biueldor. >Seriously, somebody in the arid reaches of these companies must figure that >the same old stuff will sell, otherwise we might see some of the less well >known, but more numerous aircraft with longer service length. As the >Wrench ably pointed out, some of the stuff that keeps getting issued (like >Fokker EVs) saw limited service compared to the Albatros and others. I still think that few manufactures have awoke to the realization that most of the model builing public is now represented by men in age groups 30 to 50. The other day the kid next door was flying my Red Baron simulator. I asked this nine year old kid how would you like to build a model of one of these airplanes. The kid gave me this bored look and flatly said "no thanks". I wasn't exactly stunned but I was rather suprised as I was open to all sorts of diversion at that age. Clearly a large percentage of today's modelers are middle aged men. Now most middle aged men I've met are farily discriminating especially in their hobby interest. No matter what the interest, art, wine, music, cars, women (at least James Bond still discriminates in this catagory), golf clubs, you name it. What middle age man interested in art collecting would accept a velvet painting of Elvis as part of his collection? What middle age man with an interest in fine wines would accept a bottle of Thunderbird as an addition to his wine collection? What car collector would accept a Ford Pinto as part of his car collection? Yet we have the Dr.I, A RED Dr.I no less. Still, a velvet painting of a Dr.I for my art collection would be a nice addition. Perhaps the Red Baron shooting down Snoopy would be the best subject matter for this medium. However, I would have to fit it in my Ford Pinto, so that would probably mean I would have to argue with my wife to make room in the house for my empty Thunderbird wine bottle collection I have stored in the trunk. We'll, no matter, while I'm waiting I'll just build the new exciting Sopwith Camel kits that are being rereleased this year by four different manufacturers. Who said it's not a perfect world. >Dragon/DML depressed me with their run of the same old 1/48th kits we've always >seen. No DH-2s, FE-2s, Albatroses, Halberstadts, Pups or anything. IMHO, >seems like the mainstream industry is fixated on Sopwith Camels and Dr. Is. > >PS - I'm sick of Bf109s too. How about some Yaks and Sturmoviks? > One thing I have noticed recently is the abundance of Japanese, WWII, aircraft on the market. I was always facinated by Japanese aircraft. For years I thought the Japanese only produced one aircraft during the war - the Zero - period. After I built both kits of this aircraft that were then on the market, I ran out of interest. Today however we have entered the "Golden Age" of Japanese aircraft. Want to build the first through twelfth version of the the Kawzanikki KzL 61542 -134aD "Purple Golden Falling Willow of Devine Grace" Code name "Bob"? No problem, all twelve are available, including the last two varients which were only drawn once on a rice paper napkin in a Tokyo resturant during a B-29 raid. I cannot believe the varity of subject matter here. Of course I immediatly switched to WWI aircraft so I would have a limited choice again. After all who can afford to build a reasonable collection of Japenese aircraft today? Especially with a Type 96 "Claude Raines" costing $72.00, or a Flea sized copy of the ME-163 the "Sushi" at $35.00 (I always wondered about the name "Sushi" for an airplane, perhaps it was a raw plane). These kits often cost more than the real aircraft cost the Japanese government during the war. Besides I once owned the entire spectrum of representative kits of Japanese aircraft - both of them. Clearly this a prime example of the golden rule: "He who owns the gold makes the rules". Wrench I came, I saw, I built - several Dr.Is ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:05:41 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: <199602090005.PAA21698@anchor> At 11:35 AM 2/8/96 -0500, Matt Bittner wrote: >On 8 Feb 96 at 11:11, Carlos Valdes typed diligently: > >> > >> > PS - I'm sick of Bf109s too. How about some Yaks and Sturmoviks? >> > >> I freely admit to being a 109 addict (please, please--don't >> throw those sticks and stones! They might damage our monitors. Yes, it >> IS possible to model aircraft of different eras, even in different >> scales!), but I too have been waiting a long time for a good Yak (no shaggy >> animal cracks). > >I can't wait for the Sturmoviks. However, with Accurate Miniatures >way of doing things, they probably won't be out until 1998. I *long* >for a decent Sturmovik in 1/72nd. Heck, if Hasegawa is releasing a >Morane MS-500 (520?) and a new Brewster Buffalo, maybe a Sturmovik >isn't far behind? One could only hope. > >Anybody who picked up a Hasegawa Hurricane willing to admit to it and >give me an assesment? > Wait a minute, I've seen one of those kits, it only has one wing. Everyone knows one wing is not sufficient to actually sustain flight. Witness zee French Penguin or Rouler. All this one wing stuff is simply a mfg. scam to sell kits of airplanes that never really flew. I know this cause Bill Clinton just sold us a bunch of B-2s. The Wrench Birds need two wings to fly - why not airplanes? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:05:44 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Other WWI aircraft Message-ID: <199602090005.PAA21701@anchor> >Tim Wilson >Grad-History-PSU > >Before I went to grad school, I never finished anything, but now I... > Odd, I finished everything until I want to grad school. The Flyin' Wrench Erudiation, n. Dust shaken out of a book into an empty skull. Ambrose Bierce - 1906 The Devil's Dictionary Who is this guy Ibid anyway? He sure writes a lot. Was he that foreign guy on Taxi that was always saying: "IbidIbidIbidIbidIbid"? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:05:47 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Bristol Fighter? Message-ID: <199602090005.PAA21703@anchor> The Wrench ponders: >Nazi stuff *always* seems to sell, even monstrosities like the "Maus" >tank which never fought and only had one or two built. It is ironic to note that Hitler's prediction of the "Thousand Year Reich" will probably come true - only it will endure in plastic miniatures and holocaust monuments. The Wrench All history is modern history Wallace Stevens - 1957 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:05:49 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: IPMS-USA National Convention Message-ID: <199602090005.PAA21705@anchor> >>How many WWI Web-Heads plan on attending the International >>Plastic Modelers Society - USA National Convention in >>Virginia Beach July 24-28, 1996? The Wrench regretfully returns the RSVP I would love to go but for the cost of attending I could A: Build a real Gotha G.V or - B: Build the entire production run of Gotha's in miniature and represent all the Kagohl squadrons in toto (wasn't that Dorthy's dog?) using the new Eduard Kit. The Flyin' Wrench Write with the learned, pronounce with the vulgar Benjamin Franklin - 1738 Poor Richards Almanack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:15:58 +0800 (HKT) From: Jose Valenciano To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: faq's Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Brian Bushe wrote: > forget to put almost in there. a lot of subjects have already been > done a couple of times, but it is hard searching the archive for > this info: good examples are lozenge, props, eduard eiii and pup. > the excellent web page would be the perfect place to but faqs on > these subjects (or can the mailing s/w automatically send these to > new subscribers?). > > All we need is volunteers. it wouldn't take too much effort > especially to people who contributed the most info. I dunno if I mentioned it before but I've downloaded the complete archive and am in the process of indexing each article. Of course I only keep those articles that figure in my area of interest. For example, I usually don't keep the articles on 1/72 stuff (sorry!) unless it pertains to something that can apply to my scale. For example; all the articles on naval hex camo. are stored in a directory called (c:\german\color\printed\navalhex) If anyone finds this stuff useful then it would be very easy to post some archive info. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:25:50 +0800 (HKT) From: Jose Valenciano To: wwi Subject: Eduard HB1 Help! Message-ID: Hi all, My Eduard HB1 came with unstapled instruction sheet. I've lost the first sheet. If anyone can share a photocopy of this please let me know. My kit is sort of 1/3 finished already but since the last few instruction steps are on the same lost sheet I'm hesitant to proceed. Thanks in advance! ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 18:33:45 -0600 From: djones@iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) To: wwi Subject: Re: Vertical router Message-ID: <9602090034.AA03141@deimos.tx.iex.com> Congratulations on your achievement! I would love a copy of the drawing. Thanks, Doug -------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307 | djones@iex.com -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 19:14:42 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Subject: WWI - Pornography? Message-ID: <199602090414.TAA01573@anchor> Is the discussion of World War I Pornographic? Funny, I've always considered dead bodies and various parts thereof scattered about a battlefield somewhat pornographic; especially when they're unclothed as is oft the case when a shell explodes close enough for the blast to remove the clothing from a body. Will we be able to continue to talk about humans jumping from burning aircraft from ten thousand feet, so as not to be incinerated? I'm a bit worried. Could this Net Page possibly be construed as pornographic? If not today, how about in the future when self serving bureaucrats decide such subjects are not to their liking and are therefore pornographic. Perhaps during a war that is not going well for us where the losses are becoming too high, the censors will decide that war is not a clean subject that should be open for discussion. What then? What will happen when they decide for us that the discussion of violence or any ancillary subject thereof is verboten! After all, if they censor discourse about abortion, how much further behind can the laws censoring the wholesale slaughter of young men be? Gosh oh Golly, sometimes it just seems Bill Clinton is about as liberal as Adolph Hitler. Oops, I hope this doesn't get censored. The Flyin' Wrench "Attack another's rights and you destroy your own". John Jay Chapman - 1897 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 22:28:29 -0600 From: "John P. Roll" To: wwi Subject: Re: IPMS-USA National Convention Message-ID: <311acd6b1fec002@maroon.tc.umn.edu> In message <199602081559.KAA09003@pease1.sr.unh.edu> writes: > John has brought up an nice point. > > How many WWI Web-Heads plan on attending the International > Plastic Modelers Society - USA National Convention in > Virginia Beach July 24-28, 1996? > > John, myself and ?... > > Should we plan (not now, a little later) a gathering of those > on the list? I'd sure like to meet some folks, but things get awful > crowded around the model tables and vendor stalls. > > Brian Nicklas > Depends on a number of things, but I'm sure hopin'! John Roll j-roll@maroon.tc.umn.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 01:14:11 -0600 (CST) From: huggins@Onramp.NET (John Huggins) To: wwi Subject: Whomakes the call Message-ID: Gentlemen and Ladies, When it comes to new kit relaeses, I am afraid that history, time and the state of the art in mold making are not on our side. History comes into play with this simple fact.There is a rather limited amount of material in the text books and other mass media presentation pages about any thing other than DR1s, Camels, SE-5s and Neiuports. Time gets in the way next. WWI was 80 years ago. As a history rich world, and one which likes to hang its hat on anniversaries of note, ie 25, 50, 100, 150 years etc. The 80th anniversary of any thing is rather lack luster. State of the art mold making and CAD comes next. In 1965 through 1969 , WWII was only 20 years old and the history books were full of Mustangs, Zeros, Messerschmitts and the like. The Mold makers did not have the CAD assistance we have to day, and most of them played an active part in the games of the forties. One tends to what one is most familuar with. I have been involved in some brain storming projects in the past, at the request of some of the model manufacturers, to provide a list of 10 to 25 subjects to consider for production. These lists have been requested in both 1/72 scale and also 1/48 scale. There have always been WWI subjects other than the more common ones on the list. Market research has shown that a model of an airplane that no one knows about (Salmson 2A2) will not sell as good as a model of a subject that is known (DR 1). Many of the types that have been presented end up with a response like: What is it? What did it look like? Do you have any design or construction drawings? Was it flown by any one of historical note? Was it involved in any history making event? The answer to most of these questions is no. If all of the people who subscribe to this news group, two of their friends, and two of their friends each were to buy 5 each of a given kit, the total numbers would not cover an initial production run, which would not cover the cost of the mold. Which meand the kit will not get done. Maybe in the year 2015? That's not so far away. We can just be thankfu for the likes of folks like those at Pegasus, Seria Scale, Eduard, Tom's, Rosemont etc. These are the folks who have a burning desire to see kits of the lesser knowns, can live with the smaller production runs, and don't have to use the big high pressure hard steel molds. These folks all deserve a tip of the hat and a large thank you for what they have given us, Some of the kits, as bad as they are, are better than a block of pine and a knife. It's not much, but it is something to think about. John Disclaimer: Any errors in spelling, tact, or fact are transmission errors. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 00:44:20 -0800 From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard HB1 Help! Message-ID: <199602090844.AAA17233@bing.ncw.net> On 02/08/96, Joey V. wrote: >Hi all, > >My Eduard HB1 came with unstapled instruction sheet. I've lost the first >sheet. If anyone can share a photocopy of this please let me know. My kit >is sort of 1/3 finished already but since the last few instruction steps >are on the same lost sheet I'm hesitant to proceed. > >Thanks in advance! Joey - Shoot me your mailing address and page 1 of the aforementioned destructions will be on the way to you ASAP. Mark Rook lothar@ncw.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:46:46 -0500 From: SCLexicat@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Bristol Fighter? Message-ID: <960209054646_217902620@emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 08/02/96 16:58:36, you write: > DML came out with a Bristol fighter it would outsell the >> Spad or the DVII. ------Because there isn't another decent >> Bristol on the market (especially in 1/48 scale with PE!). > ^^^^^^^ >> How many of you would buy it? >> ----Tontoni Me! ME! MEEEE!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 07:27:16 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Whomakes the call Message-ID: <199602090815.IAA00393@cso.com> On 9 Feb 96 at 2:12, John Huggins typed diligently: > Market research has shown that a model of an airplane that no one knows > about (Salmson 2A2) will not sell as good as a model of a subject that is > known (DR 1). Many of the types that have been presented end up with a > response like: What is it? What did it look like? Do you have any design > or construction drawings? Was it flown by any one of historical note? Was > it involved in any history making event? Which makes you wonder why Eduard decided on the Floh. > Maybe in the year 2015? That's not so far away. We can just be thankfu > for the likes of folks like those at Pegasus, Seria Scale, Eduard, Tom's, > Rosemont etc. These are the folks who have a burning desire to see kits of > the lesser knowns, can live with the smaller production runs, and don't > have to use the big high pressure hard steel molds. > > These folks all deserve a tip of the hat and a large thank you for what > they have given us, Some of the kits, as bad as they are, are better than a > block of pine and a knife. Definitely. Athough they're pricey, at least we have the option to buy them. Also, when you look past Merlin, the quality isn't that bad. Pegasus has gotten worlds better, and if the rumors are correct, sounds like Eduard will as well. Matt ------------------------------ Date: 09 Feb 1996 08:13:08 GMT From: "STEVE HUSTAD" To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: >I keep wondering who decides what kits to issue. I mean, is there some >sort of Politburo that makes this decisions? > >Chairman: "We will issue the Fokker DrI yet again." >Lackeys: "Excellent choice, comrade." Still,....... too bad that there *STILL* is no decent kit of the Fokker Dr.I on the market yet! (Witness DML's wing undersurfaces in 1/48, and Revell's *ancient* offering in 1/72, both of which are the best in their respective scales!) Steve H. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 09:01:19 EST From: bciciora@pitneysoft.com (Bill Ciciora) To: wwi Subject: Re: Glencoe Albatros Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 1996 06:46:46, Matt typed: > Wow! You've actually built a Glencoe D.V? I thought they killed it > even before it hit the mold makers! Maybe you meant a D.III? I've been meaning to ask the list about this myself. I keep hearing about the D.V, which I've never seen in a hobby shop or on a mail order list. Did this model actually make it out the door? I've built the D.III (and survived). Yes, there was a lot of sanding involved, but it was less work than trying to get the struts of the Smer SVA-5 aligned. I've been stuck on this model since I joined the list some months back. Bill Ciciora bciciora@pitneysoft.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 08:35:37 -0600 (MDT) From: "Guy Fawcett (403) 435-7214" To: modelling WWI Subject: Datafiles Message-ID: <3137350809021996/A63327/NOFC2/11A24A232300*@MHS> Could some one please figure out what the price in British Pounds would be to order the following from Windsock: #50 DH5 #52 Bristol M1C #54 Sopwith Dolphin Shipped by surface to Canada Also has Windsock started accepting VISA or is it still a Money Order they require? Sorry to be a pain but I believe the cost to be about 7.10 Pounds each but have no idea on the shipping charges. Thanks Guy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:25:40 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Datafiles Message-ID: Hi Guy, You ask: >Could some one please figure out what the price in British Pounds would be to >order the following from Windsock: > >#50 DH5 >#52 Bristol M1C >#54 Sopwith Dolphin > >Shipped by surface to Canada The Datafiles are 7.10 pounds each, x3 makes 21.30, surface post is another 6.00 pounds making 27.30 total If you do an IMO, you pay the bank for their service. The latest Windsock order sheet I have lists Canadian "P.O." as a means of payment but you must add 3.00 pounds for bank charges, making the total 30.30 pounds. With today's, 9 Feb, exchange rate, this order comes out to US$ 46.42. You might want to buy three more Datafiles while you are at it. For orders of 40.00 pounds or more, Albatros does not charge postage. You also asked: > >Also has Windsock started accepting VISA or is it still a Money Order they >require? > No Windsock still does not take VISA, a major limitation in my view since he probably does 65% of his business overseas. An alternative source is: The Aviation Bookshop 656 Holloway Road London N19 3PD phone: 44 171 272 3630 Their Catalog 38, which I just received last week, lists the DH-5 Datafile at 7.10 pounds. I made an order from them last month and was charged only 1.44 pounds for shipping the equivalent of two Datafiles here. Most importantly, they accept seven different kinds of credit cards. I guess they get the picture. Hope this helps. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:24:43 -0500 From: EGeher@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Plastic model production Message-ID: <960209132443_218127498@mail06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-02-08 18:31:03 EST, gcl@aonline.com (The Flying Wrench) wrote: >I would like to hear more of the re-entrant problem and just how it results >in sink marks and what these marks look like on the finished product. I >would also like to hear your comments on the state of modern kits on the >market today. Is there any new technology on the horizion that will result >in a marked improvement on todays kits? Re-entrant simply means that there is a place within the mold that is wider than the outlet. Therefore, the part can't come out of the mold without big time distortion. This is generally regarded as a no-no in mold design and accounts for many of the accuracy compromises in plastic models. Working around this limitation requires more complex (read expensive) molds or faking it in the finished product. Sink marks are the result of too much plastic in a localized region. The region cools slower then the rest of the part and this results in more shrinkage. It occurs when a locating pin or a stiffening rib or other feature intersects at an angle with the main structure. The effect can be minimized by careful design and careful process control, but sink marks are a way of life in plastics molding. If you think modelers hate them, you should hear what the auto industry has to say. A good part of any car is made from injection molded plastic and these are high visibility parts. If they bother the modeller, he can fill always use filler. Ejector pin marks are little circular indentations that result from the action of pushing the finished molding from the mold cavity. They are another inherent feature of the process, but any competent designer will keep them out of areas that show on the finished product. Not all designers are that good, so sometimes an ejector mark will show up in the middle of a wing. Flow marks result when the mold temperature is too low. Its really a quality control problem, and rarely seen these days. Incomplete filling of the mold is another quality control problem that shows up occasionally, probably due to injection machine malfunction. Foreign body inclusion hasn't been a problem for years as far as I know. Plastics suppliers that don't have their act together don't last long. >Is there any "standard" plastic on the market today. That is one that is >utilized more commonly then others. Is there any way I can recognize a poor >grade of plastic versus a high grade of plastic? There are literally thousands of plastics on the market. There are hundreds of different polystyrenes, since thats the lowest cost, widest used category. As an end user, its not really that important to you as to the specifics of the plastics selection. Some kit reviewers sometimes bitch about a given manufacturers plastic being too brittle, but I've never seen why it should matter. >What are some of the general features you look for in a kit when you buy? The only feature I look for is that the subject is something I might want to build. > >>IV. Mold Making >>This was traditionally a highly skilled craft. Like many such, it is a >dying >>one, the victim of high labor costs. Today, it is either done by automated >>precision machinery of awesome technology, or else it has fled to the low >>wage parts of the earth. Enough said. Tthe subject is too sad to dwell on. > >I would assume the Japanese and perhaps Germany is in the former catagory >and everyone else including America is in the second. Generally what is the >state of American model production today? Model kit manufacture is ultimately dependent on the skill of the mold-makers. I don't know who used to cut the molds at Monogram or AMT or any of the other major US producers, but in the industrial area where I worked, the tool makers were all elderly and european. American industry has never been very good at training and nurturing highly skilled labor and didn't pay them what they were worth either. These guys are worth their weight in gold today, and I don't think they work on model kits. I would guess that 100% of the new tooling today is cut in Asia or eastern Europe. Both Germany and Japan have more costly labor than the US and they don't seem to be cutting many new molds in either country. Think Taiwan, Hong Kong, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine. The molding can be done anywhere labor is cheap. > >Does this mean there are actually kits that were test shot but never >produced? These would seem to a fairly high value somewhat like a misprinted >stamp. I try not to gripe as I am grateful that these kits exist at all. In >fact I have often wondered how they ever came to be in the first place. But >then Glenco produces an Albatros D.III and I can't contain myself. > I have an old test shot of the Frog Anatra which wasn't released umtil years later. Frog's Lockheed Harpoon has never been released to my knowledge, although test shots abound. These are unusual cases. A new mold represents a huge cash investment and any manufacturer who doesn't get it to market is in some trouble. He's also in trouble if it doesn't sell. That's why there are so many Messerschmitt kits and so few SPADs. I'm sure there's no personal animus against those who prefer WWI topics. > >When you speak of machines I am a bit lost. I always had the impression that >model molds were akin to somting on the order of currency plates. If you >have the plates then you simply need a press to use them. Your description >gives the impression that the moulds were integrated with the rest of the >prduction machinery for the moulding process. Could you clarify this a bit >please? The currency plates need to fit the press they're used in. The mold set needs to fit the injection machine. Injecting molding is generally a more complicated action then printing so more things need to "fit". >First, I would sure like to hear more about your background in Plastics. >Were you in the model production arena? Did you see "The Graduate" just >before to left college or what? My background in plastics was the design of various parts to be molded during a varied engineering career. Plastics was a very minor part. Our product was microcircuits. I've never seen "The Graduate", although I do own the same kind of Alfa Romeo that Dustin Hoffman drove in the film. Mine doesn't run. I hope I haven't wasted too much bandwith on this. When I started, I was icebound, but the ice has melted, the sun is out, and its time to move on. Eli Geher ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 29 ********************