WWI Digest 28 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Voss' Dr.1 - the cowl revisited by SDW@qld.mim.com.au 2) Re: Plastic model production by Jose Valenciano 3) RE: Models by Jose Valenciano 4) Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by Jose Valenciano 5) Vertical router by Paul Butler 6) Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by "Matt Bittner" 7) Re: Real Wooden Props- suggestions? by "Matt Bittner" 8) Re: Models by "Matt Bittner" 9) Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by "WILSON, TIMOTHY" 10) Re: Laminated Props & lozenge decals by "Matt Bittner" 11) faq's by "Brian Bushe" 12) IPMS-USA National Convention by Brian Nicklas 13) Re: Vertical router by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 14) Re: IPMS-USA National Convention by Jesse Thorn 15) Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) 16) Re[2]: IPMS-USA National Convention by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 17) Other WWI aircraft by "WILSON, TIMOTHY" 18) Re[2]: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 19) Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by "Matt Bittner" 20) Bristol Fighter? by "WILSON, TIMOTHY" 21) Re: Other WWI aircraft by "Brian Bushe" 22) Re: Real Wooden Props- suggestions? by Erik Pilawskii 23) Re: IPMS-USA National Convention by EGeher@aol.com 24) Re: Plastic model production by EGeher@aol.com 25) Re: Real Wooden Props- suggestions? by djones@iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) 26) Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? by cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 08 Feb 96 16:52:00 EST From: SDW@qld.mim.com.au To: wwi%pease1.sr.unh.edu@teksup.mim.com.au Subject: Voss' Dr.1 - the cowl revisited Message-ID: <199602080709.RAA22744@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hi all, Following the recent discussion I've had a little think on this. The "face" appears quite clearly on the existing photos as a nice clear white on black(ish) image. There are two schools of thought. 1. The cowl is factory applied dark green/olive and the face is white. 2. The cowl is bright yellow and the face is white. Mmmmm.. I'm fairly certain Voss' crew wouldn't have painted the face on in order for it to show up nicely on orthochromatic film. So we can assume it was meant to be viewed in glorious living colour. Which begs the question of why he'd have white markings on yellow, an anaemic looking combination likely to be invisible at just a few yards away. If the cowl were yellow, I'd have expected the face to be painted in red maybe, or black, neither of which would look white on an ortho print. If Voss meant the face to be visible to friend and enemy alike he'd want it to stand out, which white on dark green /olive would have done. OTOH I suppose it could be blue on yellow at a pinch.... or some other combination. Regards Shane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:34:32 +0800 (HKT) From: Jose Valenciano To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Plastic model production Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, The Flying Wrench wrote: > I have never really seen a good description of model aircraft injection > molding process. Can anyone out there give a good description of the > process? And can anyone list the various imperfections that result from that > process? The name of the flaw, The appearence of the flaw in the plastic, > and what part of the production process results in the flaw. > Right! Especially the master model making process, dividing the model into separate pieces, what material used, etc. And how the masters are used to make the molds themselves. When are surface details added, on the master, or in the mold? ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:49:54 +0800 (HKT) From: Jose Valenciano To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: Models Message-ID: Hi Shane, nice to see you on this thread, On Thu, 8 Feb 1996 SDW@qld.mim.com.au wrote: > >Brian, and any one else who builds other than WWI models. > > I expect that this includes everyone on the list. Certainly in the time > I've frequented it I cannot remember any claimants to absolute purity. > > > I am in your court. There are other subjects of interest than WWI . I suppose, making the other stuff just make Great War stuff that much more sweeter. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:45:10 +0800 (HKT) From: Jose Valenciano To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, The Flying Wrench wrote: > I have always found it difficult to believe that the German aircraft with > the highest production numbers in WWI has such lousy representation in > miniature. Right! I experienced this phenomenon as well during the "dark" phase of my modelling life. Several years back I couldn't get a decent Bf 109 (let the flames begin!). This was probably due to the fact that the subject matter was so popular that even a "bovine dungish" facimilie would sell. Today of course, the situation has changed for the above mentioned (typing the name nauseates me) plane and its comrades. Let's hope that we who model WWI subjects experience this luck. The best is probably yet to come! Just keep the prices down! I want to make 6 Alb. DV's myself (dream, dream). ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 21:34:33 +1100 (EST) From: Paul Butler To: wwi Subject: Vertical router Message-ID: <199602081034.VAA17637@werple.net.au> Hello to all A little while back I mentioned to the group that I was building a overhead vertical router as a tool to use when building models for the semi blind (ie. 1/5 and 1/4 scale). To fill in those who might have missed or skipped over the posting, the purpose of this device is allow me to cut out components such as fuselage frames and shape such long members as spar booms. The cost should be well within the budget of most flying model builders (has cost me about A$260 all up so far) and should return a considerable benefit in time saved as I intend to build many versions of just a few prototypes over the coming years. There are lots of different colour schemes to try out; cannot let you 1/72 - 1/48 scale modellers have all the fun. This evening, I gave the router a trial run (a cut of approx 3/32" x 1/2" in a piece of fine grain pine) and there was no sign of vibration or chatter which was a concern. So I consider the tool proven and worthy of investing more time in the necessary attachments needed to do real work. I have prepared a simple drawing (postscript format) and will soon write up a description. If anyone would like a copy, please email me directly and will send it to you. Since I prefer to do the mailing enmass, please expect to wait about 1 week from today for a reply to allow time for those interested to respond. Paul Butler pgb@werple.mira.net.au ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 06:46:46 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: <199602080735.HAA12213@cso.com> On 7 Feb 96 at 22:40, The Flying Wrench typed diligently: > modify a kit's error then to build it from scratch. I suppose it is not > unusual that probably the worst WWI kit I ever encountered was the Glenco > D.V kit. Even the D.VIII which came on the scene in the eleventh hour of the Wow! You've actually built a Glencoe D.V? I thought they killed it even before it hit the mold makers! Maybe you meant a D.III? I know that Glencoe was planning on releasing a D.V, but after the D.III fiasco, I thought they killed the idea. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 06:46:46 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Real Wooden Props- suggestions? Message-ID: <199602080735.HAA12209@cso.com> On 7 Feb 96 at 21:13, Greg Springer typed diligently: > I like to use maple and dark cherry in alternating layers. They both > have very dense grain and are the right colors naturally. Veneer is a > little too thin for 1/48 (The Scale of Kings) but just right for 1/72 > (The Scale of Matt). There is a product which is a self-adhesive tape Hey Greg, I bet Steve Hustad disagrees that it's the Scale of Matt. Did you get my message from GVW? And, FWIW, I plan on getting a couple Eduard D.V's. I have the Spruce Goose decals for Stropp, so I plan on doing at least one of those (since I have two copies). Any idea if Eduard plans on doing a D.III, especially the Oeffag? I have one each of the Glencoe kits, and the decals are exquisite. I just don't want to waste them on the Glencoe kit. ;-) Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 06:46:46 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Models Message-ID: <199602080735.HAA12218@cso.com> On 8 Feb 96 at 0:31, John Huggins typed diligently: > I feel that we should all respect each other for what we do. I prefer 1/72 > scale, but I don't condem a modeler for building 1/6 scale kits. I have > learned a lot from those who model in the other scales, as they have > learned from those of who build in God's scale. I think we all *DO* respect each other, and each other's different modeling eras. Although I poke *FUN* at people when they mention other eras on a WW1 list, I too build other eras, and other *types* of models. My second building passion is 1/72nd armor, mostly WW2 light tanks, although I do have a few WW1 offerings. I've built three (!) 1/48th jobs, and am willing to build more. I'm currently working on an O-1 Bird Dog and UH-1N for the SAC Museum. The model I complete before these was an F9C-2 Sparrowhawk, which was a "golden age" plane. So, just because I'm making *fun* of people (and I'm not the only one) who make _another_ Bf/Me-109, I don't mean any disrepect. This is just a WW1 list, and the only 109 we should be talking about is the 109 Albatros D.V's that a person built, and not the 109th Bf-109. Note: HUGE :-) Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 08:14:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "WILSON, TIMOTHY" To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: <01I0YPOM1IU28WW8SW@psulias.psu.edu> Others have commented on the lack of a good Albatros kit. I'll add my two cents worth. I keep wondering who decides what kits to issue. I mean, is there some sort of Politburo that makes this decisions? Chairman: "We will issue the Fokker DrI yet again." Lackeys: "Excellent choice, comrade." Seriously, somebody in the arid reaches of these companies must figure that the same old stuff will sell, otherwise we might see some of the less well known, but more numerous aircraft with longer service length. As the Wrench ably pointed out, some of the stuff that keeps getting issued (like Fokker EVs) saw limited service compared to the Albatros and others. Dragon/DML depressed me with their run of the same old 1/48th kits we've always seen. No DH-2s, FE-2s, Albatroses, Halberstadts, Pups or anything. IMHO, seems like the mainstream industry is fixated on Sopwith Camels and Dr. Is. T. Wilson Grad-History-PSU PS - I'm sick of Bf109s too. How about some Yaks and Sturmoviks? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 07:09:52 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Laminated Props & lozenge decals Message-ID: <199602080758.HAA12375@cso.com> On 7 Feb 96 at 22:10, Charles Hart typed diligently: > My personal opinion, the Airfix kit is not that bad. Its > wings may need refinement and the fuselage cleaned up and ot be > honest it has been a long time since I held up the kit to a set of > drawings. The Pegasus kit is very nice though it is cheaper to buy > it direct from Pegasus, cost from them is 9.99 pounds equals about > $15.40 and you don't have to pay postage, your kit(s) arrive > airmail. I think that Squadron charges a minimum of $3.50 or $4.00 > for UPS. Pegasus takes credit cards and orders to them come in > about the same time it takes to get your parcel from Squadron. For the best "example" of what is "wrong" with the Airfix kit, Alberto Casiriti (sp?) corrected one, and displayed it in an older issue of Windsock. When you look at the "in construction" picture, you can see all the white sheet styrene he used to correct the kit. Another example is the humurous instructions Barry include in his D.IV conversion. He suggests (tongue in cheek, of course) they only good thing to do with the Airfix kit is back over it with the car. I can't remember exactly what's wrong with the Airfix kit, but I believe not only is the fuselage too short, it's also too narrow. What Charles mentioned about the wings, and I believe the entire tail should be scratchbuilt. I'm not sure, but I think Ray might have listed everything out in is WW1 Models continuing column. I'll have to check. The Pegasus kit is great. If memory serves, the only thing "wrong" with it is that the cutout for the engine needs to be reshaped and enlarged. Everything else is pretty much spot on. And if you're looking for cockpit help, Airwaves and Rosemont make photoetched cockpits for the D.V. I believe they're for the Airfix kit, but you should be able to adapt. Or do what I do: only use the photoetch as a guide, and scratch the cockpit out of 3-D material. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 13:47:34 +0000 From: "Brian Bushe" To: wwi Subject: faq's Message-ID: <199602081347.IAA08070@pease1.sr.unh.edu> this is probably a good time for me to bring this up , as i won't actually be able to do any of these for reasons explained below: it seems to me that this group has a large number of experienced and/or knowledgable modellers for every aspect of wwi. no i didn't forget to put almost in there. a lot of subjects have already been done a couple of times, but it is hard searching the archive for this info: good examples are lozenge, props, eduard eiii and pup. the excellent web page would be the perfect place to but faqs on these subjects (or can the mailing s/w automatically send these to new subscribers?). All we need is volunteers. it wouldn't take too much effort especially to people who contributed the most info. anyway, this will be my last post for awhile. i've just handed in my notice and (since i'm in sales) expect to be thrown out the door tout suite. i'm off to run my own (well a third of it!) company. we'll have 'net access in a month or so and i'll be back on line then! brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 10:58:49 EST From: Brian Nicklas To: Subject: IPMS-USA National Convention Message-ID: <199602081559.KAA09003@pease1.sr.unh.edu> John has brought up an nice point. How many WWI Web-Heads plan on attending the International Plastic Modelers Society - USA National Convention in Virginia Beach July 24-28, 1996? John, myself and ?... Should we plan (not now, a little later) a gathering of those on the list? I'd sure like to meet some folks, but things get awful crowded around the model tables and vendor stalls. Brian Nicklas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 07:57:39 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re: Vertical router Message-ID: <9601088237.AA823795291@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> Paul; I don't build that big so I don't need a picture of the set up. I just wanted to congratulate you on the tool. I know that things like that are a major challenge. When I was wood working I built some fairly dangerous jury rigs to get specific jobs done. I'm lucky that I still have all my fingers. Have you thought about taking pictures and using the drawings (etc) when writing an article for any magazines? They might snap that up (don't know about FSM, but the RC mags would be VERY interested.) and that would help pay for the development expenses a bit. Good job. ----Stephen Tontoni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:09:01 -0500 (EST) From: Jesse Thorn To: wwi Subject: Re: IPMS-USA National Convention Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Brian Nicklas wrote: > John has brought up an nice point. > > How many WWI Web-Heads plan on attending the International > Plastic Modelers Society - USA National Convention in > Virginia Beach July 24-28, 1996? I'll be there. I live right next door in NC - only a 4.5 hour drive away. --Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 11:13:06 EST From: cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: <199602081613.MAA03680@conted.swann.gatech.edu> > > Tim writes: > > Seriously, somebody in the arid reaches of these companies must figure that > the same old stuff will sell, otherwise we might see some of the less well > known, but more numerous aircraft with longer service length. As the > Wrench ably pointed out, some of the stuff that keeps getting issued (like > Fokker EVs) saw limited service compared to the Albatros and others. > > Dragon/DML depressed me with their run of the same old 1/48th kits we've always seen. No DH-2s, FE-2s, Albatroses, Halberstadts, Pups or anything. IMHO, > seems like the mainstream industry is fixated on Sopwith Camels and Dr. Is. While I generally agree with the above, I must partially disagree concerning DML. Yes, they should be putting out more varied subjects, but I for one am very happy to finally have good injection kits of the Dr.I and D.VII. > > PS - I'm sick of Bf109s too. How about some Yaks and Sturmoviks? > I freely admit to being a 109 addict (please, please--don't throw those sticks and stones! They might damage our monitors. Yes, it IS possible to model aircraft of different eras, even in different scales!), but I too have been waiting a long time for a good Yak (no shaggy animal cracks). Carlos > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 08:14:48 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: IPMS-USA National Convention Message-ID: <9601088237.AA823796212@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Brian Nicklas wrote: > John has brought up an nice point. > > How many WWI Web-Heads plan on attending the International > Plastic Modelers Society - USA National Convention in > Virginia Beach July 24-28, 1996? I'll be there. I live right next door in NC - only a 4.5 hour drive away. I live in Seattle or else I would definitely be there. I didn't even make it to the last one (Arizona? New Mexico?). I guess I can just wait until it comes to the great Northwest. ----Tontoni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 11:26:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "WILSON, TIMOTHY" To: wwi Subject: Other WWI aircraft Message-ID: <01I0YWE2B5IS8WWDIO@psulias.psu.edu> Carlos wrote on 8 Feb: > Tim writes: > > Dragon/DML depressed me with their run of the same old 1/48th kits we've >always seen. No DH-2s, FE-2s, Albatroses, Halberstadts, Pups or anything. >IMHO, it seems like the mainstream industry is fixated on Sopwith Camels and >Dr. Is. > While I generally agree with the above, I must partially >disagree concerning DML. Yes, they should be putting out more varied >subjects, but I for one am very happy to finally have good injection >kits of the Dr.I and D.VII. I agree with you on the quality-- it is excellent! That's probably why I was depressed, I kept seeing a DH-2 with photo-etched parts... > > PS - I'm sick of Bf109s too. How about some Yaks and Sturmoviks? > > I freely admit to being a 109 addict (please, please--don't >throw those sticks and stones! They might damage our monitors. Yes, it >IS possible to model aircraft of different eras, even in different >scales!), but I too have been waiting a long time for a good Yak (no shaggy >animal cracks). > Carlos I model in different eras. I'll admit it. I've done Napoleonic era dioramas as well as MiG-29s. WWI still holds a unique attraction because it is "the beginning." As for scale, I mainly do 1/48th now because of space limitations. Personally, I'm more of a 1/32th or even 1/24th fan. My apartment precludes this, however. For you Bf-109 addicts out there, I'm sure there's some sort of support group. Tim Wilson Grad-History-PSU Before I went to grad school, I never finished anything, but now I... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 08:24:25 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: <9601088237.AA823796895@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> > Dragon/DML depressed me with their run of the same old 1/48th kits we've always seen. No DH-2s, FE-2s, Albatroses, Halberstadts, Pups or anything. IMHO, > seems like the mainstream industry is fixated on Sopwith Camels and Dr. Is. While I generally agree with the above, I must partially disagree concerning DML. Yes, they should be putting out more varied subjects, but I for one am very happy to finally have good injection kits of the Dr.I and D.VII. Hey we've been here before; how come DML/Dragon produces the more interesting esoteric WWII stuff like the Ta 152, Ar234, He219, etc etc, but pretty generic WWI stuff for the most part? Yeah, we can be grateful that they produce WWI stuff at all, but why not push back the envelope a little bit. If DML came out with a Bristol fighter it would outsell the Spad or the DVII. ------Because there isn't another decent Bristol on the market (especially in 1/48 scale with PE!). How many of you would buy it? ----Tontoni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:26:32 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: <199602081115.LAA15402@cso.com> On 8 Feb 96 at 11:11, Carlos Valdes typed diligently: > > > > PS - I'm sick of Bf109s too. How about some Yaks and Sturmoviks? > > > I freely admit to being a 109 addict (please, please--don't > throw those sticks and stones! They might damage our monitors. Yes, it > IS possible to model aircraft of different eras, even in different > scales!), but I too have been waiting a long time for a good Yak (no shaggy > animal cracks). I can't wait for the Sturmoviks. However, with Accurate Miniatures way of doing things, they probably won't be out until 1998. I *long* for a decent Sturmovik in 1/72nd. Heck, if Hasegawa is releasing a Morane MS-500 (520?) and a new Brewster Buffalo, maybe a Sturmovik isn't far behind? One could only hope. Anybody who picked up a Hasegawa Hurricane willing to admit to it and give me an assesment? Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 11:47:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "WILSON, TIMOTHY" To: wwi Subject: Bristol Fighter? Message-ID: <01I0YWZQTYCK8WWE67@psulias.psu.edu> Tontoni wrote (in part): > Hey we've been here before; how come DML/Dragon produces the > more interesting esoteric WWII stuff like the Ta 152, Ar234, > He219, etc etc, but pretty generic WWI stuff for the most > part? Nazi stuff *always* seems to sell, even monstrosities like the "Maus" tank which never fought and only had one or two built. > Yeah, we can be grateful that they produce WWI stuff > at all, but why not push back the envelope a little bit. If > DML came out with a Bristol fighter it would outsell the > Spad or the DVII. ------Because there isn't another decent > Bristol on the market (especially in 1/48 scale with PE!). ^^^^^^^ > How many of you would buy it? > ----Tontoni I'd buy one immediately! Tim W. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 17:20:12 +0000 From: "Brian Bushe" To: wwi Subject: Re: Other WWI aircraft Message-ID: <199602081720.MAA09584@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Carlos wrote on 8 Feb: > > > > > While I generally agree with the above, I must partially > >disagree concerning DML. Yes, they should be putting out more varied > >subjects, but I for one am very happy to finally have good injection > >kits of the Dr.I and D.VII. > > I agree with you on the quality-- it is excellent! That's probably why I > was depressed, I kept seeing a DH-2 with photo-etched parts... me too, flying with a brisfit... > My apartment precludes this, however. For you Bf-109 addicts out there, > I'm sure there's some sort of support group. there two major ones, Hasegawa and Fujimi... > Before I went to grad school, I never finished anything, but now I... > i had the same ... > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 10:32:19 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Pilawskii To: wwi Subject: Re: Real Wooden Props- suggestions? Message-ID: > little too thin for 1/48 (The Scale of Kings) but just right for 1/72 > (The Scale of Matt). There is a product which is a self-adhesive tape !!!!! [he he-- ok, granted this is funny as hell....] Cheeky swine! I mean, all right if you call it the "Scale of Steve" (which would be equivallent to "Master")! [BIG >;^) ] Oh, sorry Matt.... Uh........ Yes, that's OK, then. I'll consider myself a Matt scale builder henceforth! Hoo hoo hoo(cheers), Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "I should have thought that the introduction to the Front of the BE.2c was a tremendous boon in the work of aerial observation-- one could easily follow the trail of their wreckage straight back to any Hun aerodrome...." A.T.Magnuson, M.P. .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:05:32 -0500 From: EGeher@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: IPMS-USA National Convention Message-ID: <960208140530_417751377@emout07.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-02-08 11:07:23 EST, you write: >How many WWI Web-Heads plan on attending the International >Plastic Modelers Society - USA National Convention in >Virginia Beach July 24-28, 1996? > >John, myself and ?... > >Should we plan (not now, a little later) a gathering of those >on the list? I'd sure like to meet some folks, but things get awful >crowded around the model tables and vendor stalls. > > Why not? Count me in. Eli ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:08:00 -0500 From: EGeher@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Plastic model production Message-ID: <960208140800_417752999@emout05.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-02-07 23:01:32 EST, you write: >I have never really seen a good description of model aircraft injection >molding process. Can anyone out there give a good description of the >process? And can anyone list the various imperfections that result from that >process? The name of the flaw, The appearence of the flaw in the plastic, >and what part of the production process results in the flaw. Be careful what you ask for, because you may receive it. Long, boring treatise on injection molding follows: I. Description Injection molding is a process by which very large quantities of parts are cast from plastic or metal at a very low unit cost. Molten plastic from a reservoir is pumped into a closed mold and allowed to solidify before being ejected to the outer world. The most important application is, of course, WWI airplane models, but other applications surround our lives. Specialized industrial machinery is required, and the critical elements are mold design, temperature and pressure control and the chemistry of the plastic. II. The Design of the Finished Part In order to mold properly, the finished part must be close to constant thickness and without re-entrant surfaces or hollow areas. Variations in thickness cause uneven cooling in the mold and consequent problems known as "sink marks" and warpage. Re-entrant surfaces make it difficult to eject the cooled part from the mold. Hollow boxes simply can't be done in one piece. The other problems can sometimes be dealt with by the mold designer or the process engineer. III. The Mold Design The mold is not an exact replica of the finished part. Since plastics expand and shrink at characteristic rates, the decision on what type and grade of plastic to use must be made at this point. It isn't enough to say 'Polystrene'. The exact formulation can make a difference later on. The mold cavity is cut oversize by a percentage determined by the plastic. Ejector points are identified. Cooling provisions are incorporated, including extra chill points where hot spots may be anticipated. The resulting tool set is generally designed to fit a specific machine. IV. Mold Making This was traditionally a highly skilled craft. Like many such, it is a dying one, the victim of high labor costs. Today, it is either done by automated precision machinery of awesome technology, or else it has fled to the low wage parts of the earth. Enough said. Tthe subject is too sad to dwell on. V. The Test Shot Molding houses generally have a test lab where an example of each of their various production tools is used to set up the mold process. This is not a science. Parts are molded and evaluated using different machine settings in order to determine the fastest cycle time to achieve the best production quality. Often, the mold tool is pulled and sent back for more shop work. The part designer, the mold designer, the toolmaker and the process engineer spend considerable time together, often in deep hostility. The production manager, the CEO and the sales manager send them increasingly hostile memos. Customers have heard about the new product being delayed (sometimes even before its been announced) and are passing insulting and degrading messages around on the internet. "This is the winter of our discontent". Some products have been known to generate so many test shots that no production was ever actually undertaken. (The Frog Ventura?) Eventually, a consensus is reached that an acceptable tool and process exists and the product is released to manufacturing. A month and several beers later and the people involved may be speaking to each other again. VI. Manufacturing Pound out the parts according to the process and get them to shipping. If the parts aren't as good as the final test shots, find out why or ignore it, depending on company policy and customer reaction. That's basically how parts get made. As you can see, theres a lot of room for problems to arise. More problems come up when old molds are pulled off the shelf years later for re-release, either by the original creator or by some lessee or sub-contractor. The original creators are long gone. The original production machinery has become obsolete and been scrapped out. The original hard won process document may not be remotely compatible with the latest micro-processor controlled, turbo-charged injection machine, and the original plastic specified is no longer available from the manufacturer. The object of reissue is to make a maximum profit from paid for tooling. Management doesn't want to hear about 6 months worth of process development. They just spent 2 weeks adapting the molds to the new machines and grinding off the engraved insignia. "Now start producing! Everybody will be happy except a few mouthy grouches who wouldn't be satisfied by anything that came on the market" And so Little Red Riding Hood killed the wolf with Pepper Spray and Tae-Kwon-Do and all modellers lived happily ever after. Eli Geher Scarred veteran of the production wars ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 15:19:38 -0600 From: djones@iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) To: wwi Subject: Re: Real Wooden Props- suggestions? Message-ID: <9602082119.AA01536@deimos.tx.iex.com> >The bigger the better. Actually 1/1 would be just fine except for the not so >small matter of price and shelf space. True. This keeps me from building very many 1/4 scale models! Saw an add for German and Allied Camo fabric available in 1/12 (?) and soon to be available in 1/6. See new issue of MA. Doug -------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307 | djones@iex.com -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 16:51:22 EST From: cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) To: wwi Subject: Re: Eduard Albatros/Any news? Message-ID: <199602082151.RAA04390@conted.swann.gatech.edu> Very recently, Matt wrote: > I can't wait for the Sturmoviks. However, with Accurate Miniatures > way of doing things, they probably won't be out until 1998. I *long* > for a decent Sturmovik in 1/72nd. Heck, if Hasegawa is releasing a > Morane MS-500 (520?) and a new Brewster Buffalo, maybe a Sturmovik > isn't far behind? One could only hope. > Anybody who picked up a Hasegawa Hurricane willing to admit to it and > give me an assesment? > Matt, Have you checked out the Polish Mikro 72 Il-2m3? It's a bit crude, of course, but it doesn't look bad in the box. As for the Hurricane, yep, I got one. It's standard recent Hasegawa: simple, straightforward, good surface detail, minimal interior, and (I assume) very good fit. There are two sets of markings: Robert Stanford Tuck--with a black underside to the port wing--and Arthur Clowes, in standard camo. The kit's engineering would suggest that a tropical tank-busting version could be in the works. All in all, better than the old Airfix (naturally) and a nice addition to anyone's WWII collection. Carlos > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 28 ********************