WWI Digest 270 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Monday, 25 September 1916, Pau by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 2) Zeppelina by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 3) Re: Zeppelina by Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) 4) Re: Zeppelina by Brian Nicklas 5) Re: Warcars! by roger belanger 6) von Raben inquiry by meba@cso.com 7) Re: Zeppelina by jim lyzun 8) Zeppelina by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 9) Re: Zeppelina by Alberto Rada 10) Re: Various replies, part 3 by GRBroman@aol.com 11) Re: Latest IPMS Journal by GRBroman@aol.com 12) Re: Warcars! by GRBroman@aol.com 13) Re: ADV: New web hobby shop. by john@rollmodels.com (John Roll) 14) Re: von Raben inquiry by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 15) Q: quality of Formaplane's kits by Hirohisa Ozaki 16) Re: von Raben inquiry by mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) 17) Re: Q: quality of Formaplane's kits by mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) 18) Re: ADV: New web hobby shop. by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 19) Re: Paul Silberman by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 20) Re: Warcars! by aew (Allan Wright) 21) Tuesday, 26 September 1916, Pau by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 22) WWI in the Air (25 Sep 1916) [Paul Silberman] by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 12:10:44 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Monday, 25 September 1916, Pau Message-ID: <324983B4.37DE@host.dmsc.net> Fair day. Had three good flights in a.m. to 1000 metres. Trying to secure all the information about the French Aviation Corps I can for Major Parker but am finding it difficult to secure. Paper today reported the death of Kiffen Rockwell, Paul's brother, at the front in an aerial combat. Wrote sympathy to Paul. Three flights in p.m. Went to 1000 metres in the third. Just a year ago today the big battle of Champagne commenced. How well I remember. ***************************** AN AMERICAN FOR LAFAYETTE, THE DIARIES OF E.C.C. GENET, LAFAYETTE ESCADRILLE ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:41:42 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Zeppelina Message-ID: <32499906.704A@host.dmsc.net> >From the London Times, 25 September: "Zeppelina Williams, who was named after the German airship that crashed in flames near her home at Great Wigborough, Essex, as her mother gave birth in 1916, celebrated her 80th birthday yesterday." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:07:36 -0500 From: Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) To: wwi Subject: Re: Zeppelina Message-ID: <1996Sep25.105028.1155.666475@uprr-internet.notes.up.com> With a name like Zeppelina I wonder how many dates she got? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 14:26:43 EDT From: Brian Nicklas To: Subject: Re: Zeppelina Message-ID: <199609251825.OAA16971@pease1.sr.unh.edu> What, go out with that gasbag? Why she's a blimp! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:32:33 -0400 From: roger belanger To: wwi Subject: Re: Warcars! Message-ID: <32497AC1.57E8@concentric.net> MCCLURE@force.litc.lockheed.com wrote: > > For the rivets, visit your nearest model railroad store and look for > Grandt Line Products. They make all sorts of rivets, nut and washer > combinations, and bolt heads in 1/87th and 1/48th scale. Something > in there might just work. > KentA thought on modeling , Micromark co. in N.J. markets a set of pounce wheels for the purpose of simulating rivets in different scalis and in differens spacings , I have used them on my model railroad and they do a very nice job. Roger Belanger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:52:19 -0500 From: meba@cso.com To: WW1 Modelers Subject: von Raben inquiry Message-ID: <199609251348.NAA27902@cso.com> I've asked this of Greg VW, with out any luck. However, maybe someone else might know. In looking through C&CI Vol. 20 No. 1 (to copy the DH.2 stuff for Erik) I've come across a picture of von Raben in front of an Albatros D.III while serving with Jasta 36. Anybody have any idea of what this machine looked like? Also, do we know if von Raben flew Albatros D.V's? I'm asking, because if I continue with the 1/48th jobs I have (especially since the Dr.I is complete) I would like to build all of von Raben. Once the D.III comes out, I now have a scheme to find to complete this endeavor. TIA! Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:27:31 -0400 (EDT) From: jim lyzun To: wwi Subject: Re: Zeppelina Message-ID: <199609252027.QAA14796@cwconnect.ca> At 02:05 PM 9/25/96 -0400, you wrote: >With a name like Zeppelina I wonder how many dates she got? > > Really! Jim Lyzun ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:17:04 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Zeppelina Message-ID: <3249CB80.1414@host.dmsc.net> Someone on the WWI history list just identified the Zep that crashed when Zeppelina was born as the L33, which crashed on the night of Sept 23-24. Bradley ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:06:16 -0400 (AST) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Zeppelina Message-ID: <199609252206.SAA24736@fw.true.net> At 05:19 PM 9/25/96 -0400, you wrote: >Someone on the WWI history list just identified the Zep that crashed when Zeppelina was >born as the L33, which crashed on the night of Sept 23-24. > >Bradley > Well , she was lucky he was not arround , Zeppelina sounds a litle bit better than L33 saludos Alberto pd. do you imagine this happening to someone when the titanic sank " Titanica " wow . . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:28:15 -0400 From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Various replies, part 3 Message-ID: <960925212815_317536531@emout07.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-09-24 11:14:46 EDT, you write: >So, Glen, have they made plans/drawings of these? If so, can we >get some for our own purposes? Bob is working on some stuff now, let me see if he has some good artilllery plans drawn up. Glen Postscript: Bob just showed up at he front door. He wil put a list together of plans he has and I will post it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:28:21 -0400 From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Latest IPMS Journal Message-ID: <960925212819_317536603@emout14.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-09-24 13:24:37 EDT, you write: >Just going through the IPMS Journal - the one with the Nationals >coverage - and it brought a few things to mind. Hey, look on page 57, those are my boys (nearest the camera) and the Frau. Christopher was building the (ack) F-15 and Alex was working on a (way cool) Apache. Too bad that they don't make WW I snap-tites. Well, at least they weren't captured on film making Me-109's! Glen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:28:28 -0400 From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Warcars! Message-ID: <960925212827_317536716@emout10.mail.aol.com> Well Al, lets see... >1) Rivets! How do I model rivets easilly? I hear that there is some sort of > masking tape that you can use to squegie (sp) white glue through that will > leave rivets. In 1/60 should I just bite the bullet and slice streched > sprue into rivet heads and round by sanding them after application? > For the cars I need rivets in fairly irregular patterns. Is there a > 'good' solution? Grandt Line as well as others make good rivets. You can also make them from sprue and sand to shape when dry. I recommend affixing them with Tenax. You can also emboss them from the rear with a dull punch. >2) Wire wheels! Any thoughts on possible solutions to wire wheels? I thought > possibly some 1/48 scale aircraft wheel P/E sets might do a nice job of > approximating a 1/60 scale automotive wheel? Any suggestions from you > 1/48 scale modelers? I'm looking for (I guess) 16-20" wheels in 1/60 > scale. That makes them 1/3" or 8-9mm +/- Now that I read that again > bomber wire wheels in 1/72 scale might work. Is my math off here? > I guess these car wheels might be over 20". I have seen this done but have not yet tried it: Get your outer wheel and cut metal wire to shape, laying them in as you would on an early car tire. Dont forget to add a piece to fit the axle into. Very time consuming, but I have seen some car and A/C tires made in this fashion nad they look good. >3) Misc. Car parts in 1/60 scale. Any thoughts on inspirational sources of > parts to scrounge that would approximate Axles, Bumpers, Radiators, etc. > for automobile parts. I'm aware of the 'standard' sources for basic > shapes, I'm looking for real inovation. I think some lead or P/E parts > from 1/72 kits/manufacturers might work here. Okay, moving on. Try "S" scale rail road suppliers. "S" scale is 1/64. There are even kits in this scale to start with. 1/64 and 1/60 should be visually compatible. >4) Luckilly for me I have a source for the Vickers & Lewis guns (the figure > manufacturer has these) as well as Field gun carriages, which may yield > some usefull parts. No worries there. >5) Any other words on wisdom / encouragement would be helpful. I'm planning > on doing several of these and might cast certian parts in resin/lead where > the economy of scale is there. If so I may be able to make these available > as a 'garage' kit if anyone is interested. Not for sale mind you, maybe as > a trade for help with research or modeling on this project. Sure, sounds like a neat idea! I can email an article on resin casting if you want. Most WW I A/cars were angular and well suited to scratchbuilding. The curved portions of wheel wells and covers, turrets, etc., can be made from thin plastic stock rolled into shape and then glued into place. Sort of like the action you get when you roll dough with a rolling pin. HTH, Glen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:25:19 -0500 From: john@rollmodels.com (John Roll) To: wwi Subject: Re: ADV: New web hobby shop. Message-ID: >Nice site! > >Is the catalog complete? I could only access a few manufacturers like Aeroclub. > >Jesse Thanks for the nice words! The catalog contains everything that I had ordered or received by last Saturday -- a lot more than just Aeroclub. I might guess that you clicked on a link to Aeroclub ( merely an anchor to a point lower-down on the same page) before the entire page had completed loading? If that was done, the loading would cease and only the first part of the catalog would be visible. This is really a design flaw. The catalog page is way too large. I attempted to keep the page and image sizes down. I was successful with everything except the catalog. Soon, (this weekend, I hope) I will rebuild the catalog pages so that there is one page per manufacturer, more or less. This should alleviate the problem you experienced. Thanks! John Roll ******************************************* John Roll john@rollmodels.com Vice President and Chief Modeler for ROLL MODELS, INC. THE Internet source for plastic model kits, books and supplies GREAT STUFF! GREAT PRICES! GREAT SERVICE! http://www.rollmodels.com It's not real soon anymore, it's NOW! ******************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:32:22 -0700 From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: von Raben inquiry Message-ID: <199609260632.XAA05451@bing.ncw.net> On 09/25, Matt stated: >I'm asking, because if I continue with the 1/48th jobs I have >(especially since the Dr.I is complete) I would like to build all of >von Raben. Once the D.III comes out, I now have a scheme to find to >complete this endeavor. Nice to see this growth in the right direction Matt - guess there's hope for you yet! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 18:12:43 JST From: Hirohisa Ozaki To: wwi Subject: Q: quality of Formaplane's kits Message-ID: <9609260912.AA19452@sun01.miln.mei.co.jp> Hello all, for a long time. I purchased a Formaplane's vac.kit 1/72 Ansaldo A.1 Vallila a few days ago from mail order, and I was disappointed to see it. Rib molds are engraved, Fuserage parts has no detail, etc. But it has a charm point, good outline. This is a one and only Formaplane's kit that I have. So I have a question to all. Is this a standard quality of Formaplane's kits? Cheers! --Hirohisa Ozaki. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 05:50:38 EDT From: mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) To: wwi Subject: Re: von Raben inquiry Message-ID: <19960926.044719.4447.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 26 Sep 1996 02:30:57 -0400 lothar@ncw.net (mark) writes: > Nice to see this growth in the right direction Matt - > guess there's hope for you yet! Hey, let's set the record straight. I don't forsee me giving up 1/72nd for 1/48th. My primary scale (for *everything*) is still 1/72nd. I just happen to have a few 1/48th jobs, and they're a good break from the 1/72nd detail (can you say "no brainers"? ;-)). Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 05:50:38 EDT From: mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) To: wwi Subject: Re: Q: quality of Formaplane's kits Message-ID: <19960926.044719.4447.2.mbittner@juno.com> On Thu, 26 Sep 1996 05:12:07 -0400 Hirohisa Ozaki writes: > Hello all, for a long time. Glad to see you're still around! We missed you! :-) > This is a one and only Formaplane's kit that I have. So I > have a question to all. > > Is this a standard quality of Formaplane's kits? Yes, and no. Most parts are what is considered "soft", but some of the "later" ones are a little - not much - better molded. Don't give up on it, though. It just requires a little more work. I've got a Formaplane Halberstadt CL.II I started months ago, and I stopped because of all the putty required to fill in the "misrepresented" panel lines. Good luck, and stick to it! Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:51:14 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: ADV: New web hobby shop. Message-ID: <199609261151.HAA01290@ns1.ptd.net> > http://www.rollmodels.com > It's not real soon anymore, it's NOW! Nice site John. My only problem with it was a low slung monoplane in your logo that is definitely from the wrong war and suspiciously reminiscent of a 109! Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 07:52:44 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Re: Paul Silberman Message-ID: <324A98BC.65CA@host.dmsc.net> Gents, you might recall the "WWI in the Air" daily chronology that I forwarded for a time from the WWI history list. It was submitted by one Paul Silberman, who also contributes a fairly high level of knowledge about the air war to the list when occasion demands-- however he seems almost alone in his interest in the air war. So I suggested he might think of joining our list where he would find much more discussion of air war topics. Below is his reply-- can someone more knowledgeable than I help him with the subscription process? And if anyone volunteers, please let me know so I'll know whether to get back to him or not. He would be a great addition to our discussions of historical questions. And I think he'd enjoy participating. Thanks. Bradley Omanson Paul Silbermann wrote: > > Bradley, > > I tried (some months ago) to subscribe to the WWI modelling list (one of > our other staff members subscribes and told me about it) , but for some > reason, never got the address right or the command right and eventually > gave up.Now (unfortunately) my email volume is so high that another list > would probably cause a major melt-down on the mainframe. On the other > hand... If you could send me the address and command to subscribe (not > taking any chances, this time) I'll see if I can shuffle things around > at this end and subscribe. > > In the meantime, I don't object to people forwarding the WWI in the Air > postings along. Given the nature of the Internet, I'd be kind of silly > to post something if I did mind... > > Alas, the information I have to compile grows as the war goes on (more > action, better reporting) and the time I have available shrinks (more > work, less people). As I warned the WWI-L list things are liable to be a > bit spotty for a while. (Like today, for instance - I'm not at my usual > work station, so I don't have the data handy and I'm no longer several > weeks ahead in data input. Argh.) > > Paul > > Paul Silbermann National Air and Space Museum > nasgrb17@sivm.si.edu Archives Division > **************These opinions are mine, not NASM's************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:34:59 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: Warcars! Message-ID: <199609261234.IAA21118@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Glen offers > > Grandt Line as well as others make good rivets. You can also make them from > sprue and sand to shape when dry. I recommend affixing them with Tenax. You > can also emboss them from the rear with a dull punch. Great ideas - punching from the backside, how does this work on different thicknesses of plastic. Some of the plates are going to be made from 40 thou card, some can be much thinner. I guess I could punch the rivets on 10 thou. card and laminate it onto 30 thou card to get 40 thou with rivets. This sounds like an easy way to do it. Sound right? > I have seen this done but have not yet tried it: Get your outer wheel and > cut metal wire to shape, laying them in as you would on an early car tire. > Dont forget to add a piece to fit the axle into. Very time consuming, but I > have seen some car and A/C tires made in this fashion nad they look good. Whoa, sounds like mucho work. I guess my first car will have woden spoke wheels or metal wheels. > >3) Misc. Car parts in 1/60 scale. Any thoughts on inspirational sources of > Okay, moving on. Try "S" scale rail road suppliers. "S" scale is 1/64. > There are even kits in this scale to start with. 1/64 and 1/60 should be > visually compatible. Yeowzers! This is a great Idea - I'm going to the model railroad shop right away! I wonder what the odds are that they have WWI vintage autos that I can steal TONS of parts from? I definately could go to 1/64 scale if it matches "S" scale. This could really save me tons of work. I probably can get all the plastistrut in the right scale too! > >5) Any other words on wisdom / encouragement would be helpful. I'm planning > Sure, sounds like a neat idea! I can email an article on resin casting if > you want. Send it along - I would love to read it. If it's good I'll code it for the WWW page. I've been meaning to do an article on lead casting - something I'm getting pretty good at. > Most WW I A/cars were angular and well suited to scratchbuilding. The curved > portions of wheel wells and covers, turrets, etc., can be made from thin > plastic stock rolled into shape and then glued into place. Sort of like the > action you get when you roll dough with a rolling pin. Yes you're right. I'll probably even start with a particularly angular subject as my first attempt to ease the learning curve. If I can get a Rolls or a Lorry in 1/64 scale I'd be in heaven! Thanks for the encouragement! -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist. University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:45:29 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Tuesday, 26 September 1916, Pau Message-ID: <324AA519.1619@host.dmsc.net> Fair in a.m. cloudy in p.m. Trouble about my last 10 days pay at Buc. May not get it but "should worry." Four flights in a.m. Went to 2200 metres in last flight. Papers from Rivers, magazine from Helen H. and nice letters. Also letters from dear Mother & one from Rod.--still at El Paso, Texas. Book on this war from Cousin Eleanor. Wrote to Mother. Too rainy for flying in p.m. Helen Harper sailed for France last Saturday. Wrote to her at her Paris address. Am very anxious to meet her. ************************** AN AMERICAN FOR LAFAYETTE, THE DIARIES OF E.C.C. GENET, LAFAYETTE ESCADRILLE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:51:21 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: WWI in the Air (25 Sep 1916) [Paul Silberman] Message-ID: <324AA679.2692@host.dmsc.net> 9/25/1916 4 French aircraft bombard (with guns) German troop concentrations nr Sailly Saillisel and the Bois de St. Pierre Vaast (n of the Somme). French aircraft attack military installations nr Montfaucon, Nantillois, and Azannes (Verdun area). 1 German aircraft attacks Calais (bombs fall on dunes ne of the town). German aircraft attack Bucharest, hitting "a sanatorium and an orphanage." (60 killed). _Aeronautics_ (London), 4 Oct 1916, p.228. "... the loss of the three Zeppelins in the past three weeks has moved the German public more than any other event for many months. The news literally stunned Berlin." _Aeronautics_ (London), 4 Oct 1916, p.229. "Our aviators are always in the skies above the battlefield giving every possible assistance ... From where we stood, beyond the thin line of black tree-trunks here and there, much the most conspicuous object in all the view was the wreckage of a British aeroplane lying out in the middle of the waste: an aeroplane which, though desperately crippled, the pilot brought safely down to earth within the friendly lines five days agao. So bare is all the shell-torn ground, with the ragged, snakey, whitish lines of trenches running about it, that the wreckage of the planes of an air-machine stand up like a gigantic landmark." _Aeronautics_ (London), 4 Oct 1916, p.230. -- night of 25/26 Sep -- 7 German airships attack the South, East, and Northeast Coasts and North Midlands areas of England, targeting industrial areas in the Midlands. (36 dead, 27 injured; "a number of small houses and cottages .. wrecked or damaged;" no damage reported to industrial areas). German naval airships attack Portsmouth, "reinforced places" at the mouth of the Thames, and industrial targets in Central England, including York, Leeds, Lincoln, and Derby. _Aeronautics_ (London), 4 Oct 1916, p.227. French aircraft attack the aerodrome at Nervilly (e of Peronne) and rail stations at Noyon, Ham, Fin (ne of Peronne), and Voyennes (ne of Nesle). _Aeronautics_ (London), 4 Oct 1916, p.228. 1 German airship attacks Bucharest. 1 German airship attacks Bucharest. Later reports claim that the attack targetted "the residences of well-known persons, the Germans being in possession of accurate information regarding to their sites." _Aeronautics_ (London), 4 Oct 1916, p.228. -- Claims -- French aircraft claim 5 German aircraft shot down - 1 nr Villers-Carbonel (s of Barleux; 2Lt Heurteaux, 8th); 1 n of Lieramont (Adj. Dorme, 12th); 1 nr Fromezey (nw of Etain; Adj. Lenoir, 11th) - and 3 "seriously damaged." _Aeronautics_ (London), 4 Oct 1916, p.227. -- British Caualties -- * BE2c ? No.? (No.4 Sqn) hit by ground fire WIA: Simon, 2Lt N. E. S. Trevor Henshaw, _They Sky Their Battlefield_ (London: Grub Street, 1995), p.113. * FE2b No.? (No.11 Sqn) hit by shrapnel WIA: Field, Capt A. C. W. (pilot not injured) Henshaw, p.113. * BE2c No.2669 (No.16 Sqn) hit by ground fire over Vimy; force landed and destroyed by shelling DoI: Rolfe, 2AM H. H. R. (pilot not injured) Henshaw, p.113. -- German Casualties (incomplete listing) -- KIA: Wintgens, Ltn Kurt (20 victories); shot down in flames (poss. by Lt. Hurteaux, see above) Franks, Bailey, and Guest, _Above the Lines_ (London: Grub Street, 1993), p.231; _Aeronautics_ (London), 4 Oct 1916, p.230. **************** WWI in the Air (25 Sep 1916) ***************** ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 270 *********************