WWI Digest 248 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Inpact/Pyro Bleriot by Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) 2) Atlee Models engines by Brian Nicklas 3) Seat Belts by meba@cso.com 4) Re: Seat Belts by Rob 5) Re: Re[6]: Siemens-Schukert D-1 by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 6) Re: Re[6]: SMER Albatros by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 7) Re: Re[8]: SMER Albatros by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 8) Re: Aeroclub RE8 by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 9) Re: Seat Belts by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 10) Re: Seat Belts by Rob 11) Re: Aeroclub RE8 by cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) 12) Re: 1/76 Airfix figures by GRBroman@aol.com 13) Re: Seat Belts by DavidL1217@aol.com 14) test, don't read by "Valenciano . Jose" 15) Re[8]: Siemens-Schukert D-1 by "Shelley Goodwin" 16) Airfix World War One Tank by NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) 17) Monday, 4 September 1916, Buc by "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" 18) re:Canadian Photo Identification by DFAULDER@aol.com 19) Re: 1/76 Airfix figures by "Valenciano . Jose" 20) re:Canadian Photo Identification by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 21) Re: Atlee Models engines by mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) 22) Re: Re[6]: SMER Albatros by mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) 23) Re: Re[6]: SMER DH-2/ Was Albatros by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 24) re:Canadian Photo Identification by "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" 25) re:Canadian Photo Identification by "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" 26) Re: Airfix World War One Tank by GRBroman@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 11:58:35 -0500 From: Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) To: wwi Subject: Re: Inpact/Pyro Bleriot Message-ID: <1996Sep04.095356.1155.624228@uprr-internet.notes.up.com> Does anyone on the list know where I might locate a 1/48th model of the Inpact Bleriot? Peter Fedders brought one over Friday evening (along with a Lone Star Taube) and I was impressed with the detail.....I got out the NASM book on the Bleriot and saw a couple of military schemes that would look good on this model. As info Pete's 1/48th Taube looked great, I am sure it had to have had more rigging that the Cutty Sark ship models. Someone commented in the last couple of weeks they thought the fuselage detail looked 'soft' but I was very impressed with how the model came out - wings, tail and fuselage. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 96 13:03:56 EDT From: Brian Nicklas To: Subject: Atlee Models engines Message-ID: <199609041702.NAA08057@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Does anyone know what engines Atlee Models produces in 1/72nd? I have two new ones via Rosemont, the Mercedes and BMW, but don't know if they do others. The two I have are beautiful! Brian N. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:09:27 -0500 From: meba@cso.com To: WW1 Modelers Subject: Seat Belts Message-ID: <199609041206.MAA17963@cso.com> Okay, a "small" topic for all. What color are the various nationalities' seat belts? I'm sure all weren't leather. Ideas? How about listing them by country? Then, I'll add them to the FAQ, since I'm sure a lot of people would really like to know this. Thanks, all. Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:52:35 +0000 From: Rob To: wwi Subject: Re: Seat Belts Message-ID: <9609041141.aa13276@scosysv.speechsys.com> Matt writes: > What color are the various nationalities' seat belts? I'm sure all > weren't leather. Ideas? How about listing them by country? My opinion is based on purely empirical evidence, but I'm not sure from photos that there was any national standard, except, perhaps, late in the war (the British 5-point harness comes to mind). I think I have seen a lot of canvas webbing belts in varying widths and degrees of elaboration (simple lap belts or harnesses rigged to the seat and/or structure in various ways). Mightn't this be a manufacturer-specific thing? Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 16:16:19 -0700 From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[6]: Siemens-Schukert D-1 Message-ID: <199609042316.QAA21201@bing.ncw.net> > Mark- > > Interesting muddle-I think more modern refs. on the Ds are probably > more accurate. The Harleyford (c.1962) book states that the D.V was > inferior to the Albatros (presumably in speed rather than strength). > So according to Grosz's archive the D.V was merely a streamlined D-III? > > Riordan Riordan - Yeah, that's basically it. The only real structural differences between the DIII and the DV were the cabane struts (which put the wing up a little higher over the fuselage), and the semi-circular wing cut-out, both of which gave the pilot a much better field of view. Otherwise it looks pretty much the same as the DII and DIII (which therefore makes my DII to DV conversion project a fairly simple task). As for the DV, it's really clear from the photos that it was the ancestor of the CLII and CLIII two seaters. BTW, the mid-east Albatros photos have been copied, will drop in the mail as soon as your SASE arrives. I'll have to apologize in advance for the quality of most of the photos, but it was the best I could do. The originals themselves were not that great to begin with. Nevertheless, I think you'll find them to be useful, and certainly good enough to base a DII, DIII, DV, or CIII project on. Later, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 16:23:57 -0700 From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[6]: SMER Albatros Message-ID: <199609042323.QAA22787@bing.ncw.net> > >Mark- > >My fetish is obscure corners of military aviation-so WWI Middle East is right up >my alley. Incidentally, that old C&C has some very interesting snaps of a >crashed DH-2 with dark finished "fuselage" and clear doped wings w/o roundels- >this is an unmarked AC of the 111th. Other pics from Palestine include a >ground-looped Bristol scout and monoplane, Vickers F.B.19s at Belah Field, >Martinsyde G.100, DH-1A and a derailed locomotive, the victim of German AC. > >So whaddaya think of the ol' SMER DH-2? (Maybe we should formalize this series >on the old Aurora molds...) > >Riordan Well, if you like obscure, you're gonna love the stuff I'm sending you...As for the SMER DH2, I put one together last year. Not a bad kit, especially for the price, and it goes together fairly well, without a whole lot of necessary modifications. Riggings a bitch, but you gotta expect that with a pusher. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 16:31:03 -0700 From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[8]: SMER Albatros Message-ID: <199609042331.QAA23765@bing.ncw.net> >To me, even the worst executed WWI kit is more interesting than the best P-51. > AMEN!!!!! Preach it, brother! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 16:39:36 -0700 From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: Aeroclub RE8 Message-ID: <199609042339.QAA24811@bing.ncw.net> >Hi folks, > >just to tell you that I received the new Aeroclub RE8 (1/48) today.... Andy - Would love to get one of these myself. Who did you buy yours from, and for how much? I've thought of ordering this direct from Aeroclub, but don't have a phone or FAX # for them. Thanks Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 19:55:06 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Seat Belts Message-ID: <199609042355.TAA23957@ns1.ptd.net> At 01:52 PM 9/4/96 -0400, Rob wrote: >Matt writes: > >> What color are the various nationalities' seat belts? I'm sure all >> weren't leather. Ideas? How about listing them by country? > >My opinion is based on purely empirical evidence, but I'm not sure >from photos that there was any national standard, except, perhaps, >late in the war (the British 5-point harness comes to mind). I think >I have seen a lot of canvas webbing belts in varying widths and >degrees of elaboration (simple lap belts or harnesses rigged to the >seat and/or structure in various ways). Mightn't this be a >manufacturer-specific thing? My feelings are similar. I seem to remember photos that left one with the impression of a light colored webbing.(I know, light color may not =light, but sometimes it does?!) When the first started requiring seatbelts in American autos in the very early 60"s, they were stiff webbed material for a lot of the manufacturers. It's hard to imagine anything "required" that early in the war as far as standards. I remember looking at DH-2 photos and seeing an incredibkly wide seatbelt.... Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:05:30 +0000 From: Rob To: wwi Subject: Re: Seat Belts Message-ID: <9609041754.aa16540@scosysv.speechsys.com> Mike writes: >... I remember looking at DH-2 photos and > seeing an incredibkly wide seatbelt.... American rock climbers used wide waist belts at one time as an alternative to the Euro-style full-body harness. The idea was that the wide belt distributed impact forces over more of the body. The five-point harness was still better, though, because it spread the impact over more--and better (shock-absorptionwise)--parts of the body. The evolution of aircraft seatbelts probably followed the same course (most climbing innovations in this century came from aircraft practice). Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 96 20:43:28 EDT From: cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) To: wwi Subject: Re: Aeroclub RE8 Message-ID: <199609050043.UAA00339@conted.swann.gatech.edu> Mark, Here are Aeroclub's phone (0115 9670044) and fax (0115 9671633) #s. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 21:41:53 -0400 From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: 1/76 Airfix figures Message-ID: <960904213055_301628713@emout12.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-09-04 00:07:26 EDT, you write: >You better count the number of men sent. Airfix soldiers (especially the >French) have been known to resort to cannibalism if they are deprived of food >for a long time! Now see here, I'll have you know that we have now got this relatively under control and it seems now to be the RAF who are having problems in this regard. Sorry, I accidently hit the "Flying Circus " button again. Glen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 22:11:26 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Seat Belts Message-ID: <960904215158_194571730@emout13.mail.aol.com> Most of the seat belt relics I've seen in Windsock and others were khaki or olive brown. German belts were lighter, off white to tan. The thick belts on the Nieuports and others were not lap belts. These went around the mid section. Their purpose was to keep you in the aircraft, not crash safety. If we ever published a book on how to build the 'best type of aircraft' models, a section on period interiors is a must since many model manufacturers in the past did not understand these as well. David Layton ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 09:09:54 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: "Valenciano . Jose" To: wwi Subject: test, don't read Message-ID: test only ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Sep 96 19:22:53 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[8]: Siemens-Schukert D-1 Message-ID: <9608048418.AA841890130@mx.Ricochet.net> Mark- Thanks for the ref pics. My German 'D' type binder is rapidly getting fatter... Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[6]: Siemens-Schukert D-1 Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 9/4/96 4:16 PM > Mark- > > Interesting muddle-I think more modern refs. on the Ds are probably > more accurate. The Harleyford (c.1962) book states that the D.V was > inferior to the Albatros (presumably in speed rather than strength). > So according to Grosz's archive the D.V was merely a streamlined D-III? > > Riordan Riordan - Yeah, that's basically it. The only real structural differences between the DIII and the DV were the cabane struts (which put the wing up a little higher over the fuselage), and the semi-circular wing cut-out, both of which gave the pilot a much better field of view. Otherwise it looks pretty much the same as the DII and DIII (which therefore makes my DII to DV conversion project a fairly simple task). As for the DV, it's really clear from the photos that it was the ancestor of the CLII and CLIII two seaters. BTW, the mid-east Albatros photos have been copied, will drop in the mail as soon as your SASE arrives. I'll have to apologize in advance for the quality of most of the photos, but it was the best I could do. The originals themselves were not that great to begin with. Nevertheless, I think you'll find them to be useful, and certainly good enough to base a DII, DIII, DV, or CIII project on. Later, Mark ------------------------------ Date: 04 Sep 96 From: NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) To: wwi Subject: Airfix World War One Tank Message-ID: <199609050227.WAA25112@mime2.prodigy.com> -- [ From: Kenneth Hagerup * EMC.Ver #2.5.1 ] -- I'm building a pair of Airfix WWI tanks. As Matt has so ably described, there are a few necessary cdorrections to the kit if building a Mk I (or Mother), but the kit is pretty close to a Mk II or Mk III right out of the box. I am, however, at a loss for references on the Mk II/III rear plate. Specifically, is part number 28 used only for Mk Is with the steering tail? How about part 36? This looks like a towing bracket. Or, is there some other contraption that should be added to this area? Finally, does anyone have any specific marking and color information on either a Mk II or Mk III. All my info is on Mk Is and Mk IVs. Also, Matt and I are tossing around the idea of casting the tracks in resin sets of short sections and individual plates to go around the ends of the tank. Thanks, Kenneth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 23:38:23 -0700 From: "Marian Hollinger, Bradley Omanson" To: wwi Subject: Monday, 4 September 1916, Buc Message-ID: <322E755F.67E4@host.dmsc.net> Rainy day. Passed Theoretical exam in early a.m. and turned in things. Rec'd leave until Sat. a.m. and came into Paris to Hotel Roosevelt at 1 p.m. Did shopping all p.m. got wings for collar to show my rank and bought a few other necessities. Missed seeing Paul R. Major Parker very pleased to see me. Letters from Mr Hoffman, Clara & Dr Bradley. Rec'd 20 dollars due me from Franco-American Corps. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 00:05:25 -0400 From: DFAULDER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: re:Canadian Photo Identification Message-ID: <960904235442_301766659@emout08.mail.aol.com> Greetings to all, I found out about the Albatros D.Va in the photo's at the Natinal Aviation Museum in Ottawa. It is certainly D.2359/17 flown by Ltn.d. R. Otto Hohmuth of Jasta 23, see article by Greg VanWyngarden in C&C Vol 21 no 3. It was brought down by a RE 8 crew of 13 Sq, Belway and Rose on March 6, 1918. One of the captions on the photo said "possibly brought down by McCall", not surprising as McCall was in 13 Sq as well, and also had a claim on Mar 6, 1918, but his was only a claim for an "out of control" Cheers, Doug Faulder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:16:09 +0800 (GMT+0800) From: "Valenciano . Jose" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: 1/76 Airfix figures Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 GRBroman@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 96-09-04 00:07:26 EDT, you write: > >You better count the number of men sent. Airfix soldiers (especially the > >French) have been known to resort to cannibalism if they are deprived of > food > >for a long time! I've also read that the French did practice decimation. If the unit failed to accomplish a certain task, 10% of its members were chosen at random and executed. ********************************************************************* Joey Valenciano WW1 modeller, teacher, jazz musician, joeyval@pusit.admu.edu.ph sitarist tel. (632) 921-26-75 Metro-Manila, Philippines "The more you know, the more you don't know." ********************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 22:05:35 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: re:Canadian Photo Identification Message-ID: <199609050505.AA07252@ednet1.orednet.org> Doug Faulder writes: >Greetings to all, > >I found out about the Albatros D.Va in the photo's at the Natinal Aviation >Museum in Ottawa. It is certainly D.2359/17 flown by Ltn.d. R. Otto Hohmuth >of Jasta 23, see article by Greg VanWyngarden in C&C Vol 21 no 3. It was >brought down by a RE 8 crew of 13 Sq, Belway and Rose on March 6, 1918. One >of the captions on the photo said "possibly brought down by McCall", not >surprising as McCall was in 13 Sq as well, and also had a claim on Mar 6, >1918, but his was only a claim for an "out of control" I believe the correct spelling is "Homuth" and 2359/17 was, according to the serial number listings, a D.V, not a D.Va. This seems to be confirmed by the photos as well as there doesn't seem to be any hint of any aileron control wires running between the lower and upper wings. Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org "Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 05:35:42 EDT From: mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) To: wwi Subject: Re: Atlee Models engines Message-ID: <19960905.043330.4399.1.mbittner@juno.com> On Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:02:45 -0400 Brian Nicklas writes: > Does anyone know what engines Atlee Models produces in > 1/72nd? I have two new ones via Rosemont, the Mercedes and > BMW, but don't know if they do others. The two I have are > beautiful! So far, the only two are the Mercedes and the BMW. Not sure if more are in the works, but it would be great if they were. Let's see: any of the Siemens Halske engines; any of the Oberursals (sp?) (even though Aeroclub makes the twin row as used in the Fokker E.IV); Liberty's; Hispano's; do I need to continue? ;-) Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 05:35:42 EDT From: mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[6]: SMER Albatros Message-ID: <19960905.043330.4399.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:23:16 -0400 bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) writes: > The kit goes together pretty easily. Even with all those > struts, things lined up pretty well (even if not 100% > accurate). I've been trying to get up my courage to do one > and rig it. I keep looking at the datafile and try to figure > out all the wires. I keep getting headaches and move on to > another project. Here'a a great subject for someone to do > some nice brass etched cockpit stuff...you could actually > see the end result! If memory serves, Ray Rimmel "corrected" this kit in either an early Windsock, or an early Scale Models. As far as rigging goes, the original Merit instructions shows how to rig it. Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 07:35:46 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re[6]: SMER DH-2/ Was Albatros Message-ID: <199609051135.HAA25304@ns1.ptd.net> At 05:35 AM 9/5/96 -0400, Matthew E Bittner wrote: >O. I've been trying to get up my courage to do one >> and rig it. I keep looking at the datafile and try to figure >> out all the wires. I keep getting headaches and move on to >> another project.. > >As far as rigging goes, the original Merit instructions >shows how to rig it. Anyone out there have a copy of the Merit rigging instructions they could copy????? Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 7:36:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" To: wwi Subject: re:Canadian Photo Identification Message-ID: <960905073641.202241a7@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> Doug, et al. According to RFC Communique No. 130 (dated 13 March 1918) on 6 March "2nd Lieut. F. Belway and 1st A.M. F. Rose of No. 13 Squadron, whilst on artillery observation, shot down an enemy scout, which landed in our lines south of Feuchy." The Shores/Franks/Guest book _Above the Trenches_ (1990, pp. 265-266) also credit F.R.M. McCall (then also of No. 13 Squadron and flying with 2/Lt F.C. Farrington in R.E.8 B.6365) with the victory. Take your pick. PK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 7:52:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" To: wwi Subject: re:Canadian Photo Identification Message-ID: <960905075242.202241a7@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> Doug, et al.: According to the No. 13 Squadron report, McCall and Farrington received credit for an "OOC." I believe, though, that Shres, et al. consider an OOC as a confirmed victory. (And NOW you know why the RFC/RNAS/RAF shot down more German aircraft than were ever built!) The Jasta 23 roster identifies the Albatros pilot as Ltn.d.Res. Otto Hohmuth, who flew previously with Jasta 32. As they say on 'The X-Files': "The truth is out there . . ." PK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 08:13:02 -0400 From: GRBroman@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Airfix World War One Tank Message-ID: <960905081302_472244002@emout14.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 96-09-04 23:02:37 EDT, you write: >Finally, does anyone have any specific marking and color information on >either a Mk II or Mk III. All my info is on Mk Is and Mk IVs. I can help with some info but it may take a day or two to post as I have an early meeting this a.m. and a soccer team to coach tonite. The Mark II and II were interin production vehicles between the Mark I and IV to keep the production lines running. I believe only about 50 or so of each type were built, but I'm just running on memory here. Many or all were built specifically for training and had mild steel plates rather than armor. I can't remember the specific diffferences but I will post them as soon as I can. Of course, the mild steel (boilerplate) tanks were thrown onto battl and were cut to pieces by AP MG bullets. Unexpected benefit: The Germans captured several, liked the effect of their bullets on the "armor" and made no changes. The Mark IV and V came along with "real" armor and the Germans found themselves behind in the "gun-vs-tank" game. Not a good place to be when it's third down and long yardage. More later, Glen BTW, If you resin cast the tracks, I would like to try a set also. I would be more than willing to throw into the kitty for something better than the rubber bands. :) ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 248 *********************