WWI Digest 239 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Off-color lozenge by mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) 2) Re: Off-color lozenge by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 3) Re: Last of the Models by DavidL1217@aol.com 4) Re: Windsock und Datafile by DavidL1217@aol.com 5) Re: Last of the Models by DavidL1217@aol.com 6) German Airscrews, Lozenge by "Shelley Goodwin" 7) Re: Off-color lozenge by DavidL1217@aol.com 8) Re: German Airscrews, Lozenge by DavidL1217@aol.com 9) Who dat? WAS German Airscrews, Lozenge by SDW@qld.mim.com.au 10) Pfalz silver-grey by mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) 11) Photo Identification Desired by DFAULDER@aol.com 12) RE: Pfalz silver-grey by SDW@qld.mim.com.au 13) Re: Who dat? WAS German Airscrews, Lozenge by "Shelley Goodwin" 14) Re: Pfalz silver-grey by "Shelley Goodwin" 15) Re[2]: Pfalz silver-grey by "Shelley Goodwin" 16) RE: Who dat? WAS German Airscrews, Loz by SDW@qld.mim.com.au 17) Re: Re[2]: Pfalz silver-grey by meba@cso.com 18) Re: Off-color lozenge -Reply by John Snyder 19) Re[4]: Pfalz silver-grey by "Shelley Goodwin" 20) Re: Re[4]: Pfalz silver-grey by aew (Allan Wright) 21) Re: Re[4]: Pfalz silver-grey by meba@cso.com 22) Post-War Exploits by "Shelley Goodwin" 23) WWW page for storage of information relating to WWI modeling by John Snyder 24) German flak truck by meba@cso.com 25) Re: Sierra Scale SPAD A.2, 4 by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 26) Re: Post-War Exploits by Rob 27) Nieuport underside blue by meba@cso.com 28) Re[2]: Post-War Exploits by "Shelley Goodwin" 29) RE: WWW page for storage of information by SDW@qld.mim.com.au 30) Re: The Bloody Red Baron by David Takemoto-Weerts 31) Re[2]: WWW page for storage of information by "Shelley Goodwin" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 20:54:35 EDT From: mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) To: wwi Subject: Re: Off-color lozenge Message-ID: <19960827.175213.4399.0.mbittner@juno.com> On Tue, 27 Aug 1996 16:58:01 -0400 bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) writes: >What I do is to paint an undercoat one the top anmd bootm of the wing. >the >undercoat I've been using is Polly S BLUE 500030. It's a pretty good >match >for the blue in the 4 & 5 color lozenge made by Americal and by >Scalemaster. >Then, even if the fit isn't perfect or some decal flakes off, you can >hardly >notice it. Anybody know if there is an equivalent Polly Scale? I've found that the Polly Scale uses a different numbering scheme. Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:12:16 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Off-color lozenge Message-ID: <199608280212.WAA03841@ns1.ptd.net> >Thanks for the tip-I'm considering lozenge for the Pfalz (I have too many >Nieuports that could end up being powder aluminum color), but was at a loss as >to how the wings should be primed. Is that Polly S blue a gloss acrylic, and do >you seal the decaled surfaces w/ a dullcoat? > >Anybody know if there is an equivalent Polly Scale? I've found that the >Polly Scale uses a different numbering scheme. > > Matt and Riordan I think that the blue is, at best, a flat. I've sprayed it with a gloss overcoat by Model Master. I'm just about out of the old bottle, and I'd appreciate it if anyone knows the new Poly Scale number/code/name. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:16:55 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Last of the Models Message-ID: <960827221406_189203017@emout19.mail.aol.com> Charlie, I'll take the Pegasus Halberstadt CLll and the two boxes of British soldiers. Hey, I can even stop by and save you the postage! David Layton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:30:26 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Windsock und Datafile Message-ID: <960827222011_189207981@emout18.mail.aol.com> Monday, Windsock Vol 12/4 arrived in consort with the Morane Datafile. Both are quite good, particularly the datafile. The scratchbuilt BE2 with the clear wings should give us all 'cause for pause'. Wow! Perhaps, Rosemont can produce their vacuform wing blanks in clear styrene! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:33:08 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Last of the Models Message-ID: <960827221526_189204187@emout13.mail.aol.com> And also, I 'll take the Hanriot as well. I messed one of these up badly a few years ago. Again, David Layton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 19:36:38 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: German Airscrews, Lozenge Message-ID: <9607278411.AA841199770@mx.Ricochet.net> Anybody know the name of the AS manufacturer with the maltese cross logo? I am trying to whittle a prop for the Pfalz, and I have seen both Axial and the other kind (which seem thinner) on the Pfalzs in my modest # of ref photos. Was/were there'standard' prop(s) used for Albatraii/Pfalzs/Fokkers? My sources indicate a dia. of 9 1/2'. I have the Axial logo from WWI AERO, so I'll most likely be faking a decal from that. My Osprey book, Classic AC of WWI shows Javier Arango's D-VII replica with uppersurface similar to but w/more distinct purple than the Super Scale lozenge. Any comments? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 22:40:42 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Off-color lozenge Message-ID: <960827222303_189210371@emout13.mail.aol.com> I am very pleased to see a couple of lady model builders appearing on the network! Hopefully, we can get more of your input! Has anyone ever told you about the advantages of being a member of the League of World War One Aviation Historians....... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:02:59 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: German Airscrews, Lozenge Message-ID: <960827224912_189232207@emout15.mail.aol.com> The "Iron Cross" label is for a Garuda propeller. See the Smithsonian book on the Alb. DVa. Another prop manufacturer was Wolffe whose emblem was a "W" ------------------------------ Date: 28 Aug 96 13:10:00 EDT From: SDW@qld.mim.com.au To: wwi%pease1.sr.unh.edu@teksup.mim.com.au Subject: Who dat? WAS German Airscrews, Lozenge Message-ID: <199608280333.NAA03703@mimmon.mim.com.au> The unknown modeller posts: > Anybody know the name of the AS manufacturer with the maltese cross > logo? I am trying to whittle a prop for the Pfalz, and I have seen > both Axial and the other kind (which seem thinner) on the Pfalzs in my > modest # of ref photos. Was/were there'standard' prop(s) used for > Albatraii/Pfalzs/Fokkers? My sources indicate a dia. of 9 1/2'. > I have the Axial logo from WWI AERO, so I'll most likely be faking a > decal from that. No I can't answer (over to you Charles) but this and several posts lately remind me to post my regular whinge. I (and others) suffer from an overly smart mail system which reports the posts from the list as something on the lines of: From:wwi@MIMHOLD{MHS:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu} To: wwi@MIMHOLD (Multiple recipients of list){MHS:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu}; sdw consequently, if you DON'T put a name or email address in the text somewhere I haven't a clue who I'm listening to, and can't find out. Please, please sign your mail everyone Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:44:44 EDT From: mbittner@juno.com (Matthew E Bittner) To: wwi Subject: Pfalz silver-grey Message-ID: <19960827.203146.4399.0.mbittner@juno.com> Since Polly S(cale)'s Flat Aluminum can be used for Nieuports, what do people use for the Pfalz 'silbergrau'? Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 00:09:11 -0400 From: DFAULDER@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Photo Identification Desired Message-ID: <960828000910_511337747@emout12.mail.aol.com> Hello to all, While in Ottawa recently I checked out the National Archives of Canada, and the National Aviation Museum to see what WWI photo's they might have. I found a few interesting ones that I have ordered, but I would like to get more info on them than the official caption has. 1 -A photo with the wreckage of Albatros(?) D.796/17. The tail is white and the fuselage has a polka dot pattern(!) on a dark background. 2 - Photo's of four D-VII's at a UK aerodrome, one with an RK monogram on the side, another with serial 6822. 3 - Photo's of a DVa, possibly brought down by McCall. It has a natural wood fuselage, Maltese crosses. The rear of the fuselage and front of the tail is a very dark color, with a white stripe behind that goes around all the tail surfaces. The rudder is lozenge and the nose may be colored. Sorry, I know that might be hard to understand. Maybe some have seen these pictures elsewhere, or can offer some identification. if so thank you in advance. Cheers, Doug Faulder DFAULDER@AOL.COM ------------------------------ Date: 28 Aug 96 14:24:00 EDT From: SDW@qld.mim.com.au To: wwi%pease1.sr.unh.edu@teksup.mim.com.au Subject: RE: Pfalz silver-grey Message-ID: <199608280445.OAA04495@mimmon.mim.com.au> Matt, >Since Polly S(cale)'s Flat Aluminum can be used for Nieuports, what do >people use for the Pfalz 'silbergrau'? Since Silbergrau was a dope containing zinc oxide (white), lamp black (black) and aluminium powder we can follow 1:1 scale practice and add medium grey and aluminium paints together to get a good Plafz silbergrau. In munchkin scale, I defer to Mr Hustad, who posted on this very subject on Wednesday, 27 March 1996 at 1:14 " My Pfalz D.VIII in 1/72 that I just finished and had on display at " KC-Con '96 had the typical Pfalz 'Silbergrau' fuselage. I painted this " thus; 2 parts Testors Flat Aluminum (#1181 from the 1/4 oz. jar). " 1 part Testors Model Master Medium Gray, FS35237 (#1721 in the " 1/2 oz. jar). " I won't claim that this is 100% accurate, but it looks good to my eye. " I finished it off with Testors Dullcote lacquer. Dulls the silver, but " gives a good/better scale effect. IMHO Steves eye gives a fairly good recommendation Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 21:59:21 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re: Who dat? WAS German Airscrews, Lozenge Message-ID: <9607278412.AA841208410@mx.Ricochet.net> Shane- I, the Unknown Modeler, am Riordan Goodwin appearing under my wife's name *Shelley*. So there. Yours Truly, Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Who dat? WAS German Airscrews, Lozenge Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 8/27/96 8:16 PM The unknown modeller posts: > Anybody know the name of the AS manufacturer with the maltese cross > logo? I am trying to whittle a prop for the Pfalz, and I have seen > both Axial and the other kind (which seem thinner) on the Pfalzs in my > modest # of ref photos. Was/were there'standard' prop(s) used for > Albatraii/Pfalzs/Fokkers? My sources indicate a dia. of 9 1/2'. > I have the Axial logo from WWI AERO, so I'll most likely be faking a > decal from that. No I can't answer (over to you Charles) but this and several posts lately remind me to post my regular whinge. I (and others) suffer from an overly smart mail system which reports the posts from the list as something on the lines of: From:wwi@MIMHOLD{MHS:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu} To: wwi@MIMHOLD (Multiple recipients of list){MHS:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu}; sdw consequently, if you DON'T put a name or email address in the text somewhere I haven't a clue who I'm listening to, and can't find out. Please, please sign your mail everyone Shane ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 22:04:06 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re: Pfalz silver-grey Message-ID: <9607278412.AA841208650@mx.Ricochet.net> Matt- It is my impression that the Pfalz color would be very similar, but in an old Scale Modeler iss., Rimel suggests of matt white, lt. grey & silver in a 1:1:4 mixture... Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Pfalz silver-grey Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 8/27/96 8:59 PM Since Polly S(cale)'s Flat Aluminum can be used for Nieuports, what do people use for the Pfalz 'silbergrau'? Matt mbittner@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 22:10:29 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: Pfalz silver-grey Message-ID: <9607278412.AA841209010@mx.Ricochet.net> Matt/Shane- What is a Pfalz D.VIII? Similar to a D.XII? X-plane? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Pfalz silver-grey Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 8/27/96 9:27 PM Matt, >Since Polly S(cale)'s Flat Aluminum can be used for Nieuports, what do >people use for the Pfalz 'silbergrau'? Since Silbergrau was a dope containing zinc oxide (white), lamp black (black) and aluminium powder we can follow 1:1 scale practice and add medium grey and aluminium paints together to get a good Plafz silbergrau. In munchkin scale, I defer to Mr Hustad, who posted on this very subject on Wednesday, 27 March 1996 at 1:14 " My Pfalz D.VIII in 1/72 that I just finished and had on display at " KC-Con '96 had the typical Pfalz 'Silbergrau' fuselage. I painted this " thus; 2 parts Testors Flat Aluminum (#1181 from the 1/4 oz. jar). " 1 part Testors Model Master Medium Gray, FS35237 (#1721 in the " 1/2 oz. jar). " I won't claim that this is 100% accurate, but it looks good to my eye. " I finished it off with Testors Dullcote lacquer. Dulls the silver, but " gives a good/better scale effect. IMHO Steves eye gives a fairly good recommendation Shane ------------------------------ Date: 28 Aug 96 15:52:00 EDT From: SDW@qld.mim.com.au To: wwi%pease1.sr.unh.edu@teksup.mim.com.au Subject: RE: Who dat? WAS German Airscrews, Loz Message-ID: <199608280613.QAA05329@mimmon.mim.com.au> Riordan writes: > Shane- > I, the Unknown Modeler, am Riordan Goodwin appearing under my wife's > name *Shelley*. > So there. > > Yours Truly, > > Riordan Thanks mate. I really hate not knowing who's talking - I have come to regard the listmembers as a kind of defacto extended family and it's too hard to follow family doings when I dunno who said what Shane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:52:28 -0500 From: meba@cso.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: Pfalz silver-grey Message-ID: <199608280649.GAA00506@cso.com> On 28 Aug 96 at 1:11, Riordan Goodwin typed diligantly: > What is a Pfalz D.VIII? Similar to a D.XII? X-plane? No, it served as a home defence fighter. It has the fuselage of a Pfalz Dr.I, with the wings that look like come from a SSW D.IV. Your best bet is to get to the web page, and view the D.VIII that the esteemed Steve Hustad built. Beautiful!!! It was covered in Windsock, Vol 11 No 4. Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:45:15 -0800 From: John Snyder To: wwi Subject: Re: Off-color lozenge -Reply Message-ID: >>> Matthew E Bittner 08/27/96 05:46pm >>> Anybody know if there is an equivalent Polly Scale? I've found that the Polly Scale uses a different numbering scheme. Matt mbittner@juno.com>>>> You might try contacting Floquil to see if there is any kind of cross-reference. I could not come up with an e-mail address for them, but here's their snail mail address/phone/fax: Floquil-PolyS Color Corporation 4715 State Highway 30 Amsterdam, NY 12010 Phone: (518) 843-3610 Fax: (518) 842-3551 John Snyder jsnyder@trmx3.dot.ca.gov ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 10:48:18 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[4]: Pfalz silver-grey Message-ID: <9607288412.AA841254490@mx.Ricochet.net> Which web page? this one or? Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Pfalz silver-grey Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 8/28/96 4:55 AM On 28 Aug 96 at 1:11, Riordan Goodwin typed diligantly: > What is a Pfalz D.VIII? Similar to a D.XII? X-plane? No, it served as a home defence fighter. It has the fuselage of a Pfalz Dr.I, with the wings that look like come from a SSW D.IV. Your best bet is to get to the web page, and view the D.VIII that the esteemed Steve Hustad built. Beautiful!!! It was covered in Windsock, Vol 11 No 4. Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:03:29 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[4]: Pfalz silver-grey Message-ID: <199608281803.OAA05437@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Which web page? this one or? I run a WWW page for storage of information relating to WWI modeling. Most of the information is gleaned from or donated by members of this list. The URL is in my .sig file. -Allan Wright - List administrator =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist. University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:12:37 -0500 From: meba@cso.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[4]: Pfalz silver-grey Message-ID: <199608281309.NAA29467@cso.com> On 28 Aug 96 at 13:49, Shelley Goodwin typed diligantly: > Which web page? this one or? The web page that is associated with the list: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 11:16:57 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Post-War Exploits Message-ID: <9607288412.AA841256172@mx.Ricochet.net> Ive been doing a bit of reading, and Ive seen reference to Fok.D-VIIs and SSW D.III/IV in use right after the war by German 'Police Squadrons'.There is mention to them being used against the Bolsheviks on the eastern frontier. Could this be referring to the Freikorps in Latvia/Estonia? Berthold served with the Freikorps-was he involved in this? Apparently the Allies ordered the Police Sq. disbanded on three separate occasions. I'm really curious about insig/markings... Finally, Windsock has it that several ex-Jasta pilots who were members of the Spartak Union (was this a Bolshevik faction?) went Russia after the War to join the Red Air Fleet during the Civil War. Was Heinrich Zempel (of Jastas 37 & 65) a Spartak member? Anyone have any details on any of this? Riordan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:38:25 -0800 From: John Snyder To: wwi Subject: WWW page for storage of information relating to WWI modeling Message-ID: Just had a look at the page, after seeing it mentioned in one of the Pfalz messages. In looking at several pages/sites connected with lozenge camo, I noted that the colors have been correlated to the Munsell Color Notation System. The question I have is: Are these correlations based on historic data (say, pre-1940 historical information), or on use of the Munsell system to match to existing fabric samples? The reason I ask is that, beginning in 1943, Munsell changed their system. Thus, if the correlation is based on pre-1943 data, then knowing the Munsell notation for a particular color is not going to do one a lot of good unless one has access to the earlier Munsell Book of Color. As a ship modeler, I'm all too aware of this problem: USN WW2 (I know, I'm off-topic; bear with me) camo colors were based on the 1929 Munsell Book of Color; they don't match the present Munsell Book of Color samples (5PB 4/4 in the 1929 book [I have access to one] is different from 5PB 4/4 in the present book). BTW, am I the ONLY ship modeler on this list? It sure seems so, and in looking around the web page it becomes clear that WWI was fought solely in the air and on the ground. :-) Oh well.... John Snyder jsnyder@trmx3.dot.ca.gov ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 15:09:01 -0500 From: meba@cso.com To: WW1 Modelers Subject: German flak truck Message-ID: <199608281506.PAA10160@cso.com> In going thorough the book _Pictorial History of the German Army Air Service_ to stick in my database, I came across a picture of a German flak truck. The only thing the caption has is: "At the mobilisation there were only 14 items fo Flak available to the German army, of which siz were for the use of the army in the field." Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:31:31 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Sierra Scale SPAD A.2, 4 Message-ID: Charlie Duckworth wrote some time ago: >Received the SPAD A.2,4 in 1/48th (Sierra Scale) from Sopwith Hobbies >yesterday. As Barry at Rosemont says the mini-series on this plane has not >arrived, could someone help on the differences between the A.2 and the A.4. > >My few sources on this plane (Harleyford Fighters 1914-18 & the Squadron book >on the SPADs) only advise the difference was an engine horsepower upgrade. >Did both models have ailerons on the top wing? > Windsock Vol 5 #1 has a 5 page piece on the SPAD A.4, including 1:72 plans. I have to wonder how much of the forthcoming "mini" (size not price) Datafile will be comprised of reprinting this material. A photo in this piece shows an A.1 with ailerons on both top and bottom wings. The drawings of the A.4 show only top wing silerons. Of 6 photos of A.2s in this article (no A.4 photos) only two are clear enough to show ailerons on both top and bottom wings. Ray Rimell states in the text that only 11 A.4s were constructed and used 110HP LeRhone engines and that 10 of these went to Russia. HTH Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:35:30 +0000 From: Rob To: wwi Subject: Re: Post-War Exploits Message-ID: <9608281426.aa22953@scosysv.speechsys.com> Riordan writes: > German 'Police > Squadrons'.There is mention to them being used against the Bolsheviks > on the eastern frontier. Could this be referring to the Freikorps in > Latvia/Estonia? Berthold served with the Freikorps-was he involved in > this? ... The Armistice terms let the Germans and Austrians have limited numbers of police to keep public order (the allies were scared of the Reds). They were allowed limited numbers of machineguns and armored cars, but no tanks or aircraft (if memory serves). Both nations tried to stretch things. I have seen street battles between police and Communists and/or Freicorps units where the police had at least one ex-British rhomboidal tank. Both Austria and Germany also tried to set up air police, paramilitary "airlines," etc. with the result that all air activity was soon banned by the Inter-Allied Control commission. The police are probably not the same as the Freicorps. The former were official. The latter were private, rightest armies that fought communists at home while trying to subvert the independence of formerly German possessions in the East. I have seen at least one photo of a Junkers Cl type in a blotchy camouflage operated by a Freicorps unit. > Finally, Windsock has it that several ex-Jasta pilots who were members > of the Spartak Union (was this a Bolshevik faction?) went Russia after > the War to join the Red Air Fleet during the Civil War. The Spartacists (for Spartacus, the Roman rebel slave) were the German communists. They provided some of the last serious resistance to the Nazis, filled the first concentration camps, and became some of the first volunteers to serve the Spanish Republic in the Spanish Civil War. Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 15:35:01 -0500 From: meba@cso.com To: WW1 Modelers Subject: Nieuport underside blue Message-ID: <199608281532.PAA11721@cso.com> Anybody have a good Polly Scale match for the French underside blue as used on camo'ed Nieuports? TIA! Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 13:53:09 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: Post-War Exploits Message-ID: <9607288412.AA841265530@mx.Ricochet.net> Rob- Thanks. This topic seems like another ideal subject for Windsock, although it is technically *off-topic*. Although admittedly interesting, I think they have devoted enough space to France's Foreign Legion of the Air. Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Post-War Exploits Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 8/28/96 1:34 PM Riordan writes: > German 'Police > Squadrons'.There is mention to them being used against the Bolsheviks > on the eastern frontier. Could this be referring to the Freikorps in > Latvia/Estonia? Berthold served with the Freikorps-was he involved in > this? ... The Armistice terms let the Germans and Austrians have limited numbers of police to keep public order (the allies were scared of the Reds). They were allowed limited numbers of machineguns and armored cars, but no tanks or aircraft (if memory serves). Both nations tried to stretch things. I have seen street battles between police and Communists and/or Freicorps units where the police had at least one ex-British rhomboidal tank. Both Austria and Germany also tried to set up air police, paramilitary "airlines," etc. with the result that all air activity was soon banned by the Inter-Allied Control commission. The police are probably not the same as the Freicorps. The former were official. The latter were private, rightest armies that fought communists at home while trying to subvert the independence of formerly German possessions in the East. I have seen at least one photo of a Junkers Cl type in a blotchy camouflage operated by a Freicorps unit. > Finally, Windsock has it that several ex-Jasta pilots who were members > of the Spartak Union (was this a Bolshevik faction?) went Russia after > the War to join the Red Air Fleet during the Civil War. The Spartacists (for Spartacus, the Roman rebel slave) were the German communists. They provided some of the last serious resistance to the Nazis, filled the first concentration camps, and became some of the first volunteers to serve the Spanish Republic in the Spanish Civil War. Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Aug 96 07:18:00 EDT From: SDW@qld.mim.com.au To: wwi%pease1.sr.unh.edu@teksup.mim.com.au Subject: RE: WWW page for storage of information Message-ID: <199608282138.HAA10687@mimmon.mim.com.au> John, >BTW, am I the ONLY ship modeler on this list? It sure seems so, and in lookin >around the web page it becomes clear that WWI was fought solely in the air and >on the ground. :-) Oh well.... Well yes and no. I build WW1 aircraft but would love to build WW1 ships as well - except they're as rare as the proverbial rocking horse sh.. er, manure. Now if someone would release a 1:350 scale HMAS Sydney to sink the pesky Emden, or a HMS Lion, Derflingger etc etc... Actually, I'd settle for decent plans. Regards Shane *Weier* sdw@qld.mim.com.au Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:28:36 -0700 (PDT) From: David Takemoto-Weerts To: wwi Subject: Re: The Bloody Red Baron Message-ID: <2.2.16.19960828142834.2eb7436c@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Something more on "The Bloody Red Baron": >X-POP3-Rcpt: szweerts@peseta >Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 07:59:47 EDT >Reply-To: AJANUS@SIVM.SI.EDU >Sender: owner-airship-list@lists.Colorado.EDU >From: Allan Janus >To: >Subject: Anniversary and a Book >X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CREN >Content-Length: 1409 > > >Sunday marked the 75th anniversary of the crash of ZR-2 over Hull. The >Washington Post's online archives features an AP report on the crash at: > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/flash/aug/crash21.htm > >And for those cognoscenti of The Airship in Literature, have a look at >"The Bloody Red Baron" by Kim Newman. This is a sequel to "Anno >Dracula"; both books are set in a world peopled by, and largely run by >vampires, and includes both historic and fictional characters - >Richthofen, Goring, Edgar Allan Poe, Mycroft Holmes, Churchill, Peter >Strasser (only a walk-on, I'm afraid) and Dracula, of course. I'm >nearing the exciting climax of the novel, and the flagship of the German >airship fleet - the Atilla - has just made its appearance - commanded by >Strasser & Robur the Conqueror, with Dracula on the bridge. This is the >first airship I know of equipped with a pipe organ (to rain down >selections from Wagner on its terrified victims). Oh, the humanity! Oh, >the vampirity! > > >Allan Janus > >+---------------------------------------------------------------+ >=DD Allan Janus 202-357-3133 =DD >=DD National Air and Space Museum FAX: 202-786-2835 =DD >=DD MRC 322 NASARC07@SIVM.BITNET =DD >=DD Washington DC 20560 NASARC07@SIVM.SI.EDU =DD >+---------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 14:55:09 PST From: "Shelley Goodwin" To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: WWW page for storage of information Message-ID: <9607288412.AA841269252@mx.Ricochet.net> Shane- Have you tried Taubman Plans Service International, 11 College Dr.#4G, Jersey City NJ 07305? They have WWI U-31 class plans, which I thought I might never find. S, Riordan ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: WWW page for storage of information Author: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu at Internet Date: 8/28/96 2:24 PM John, >BTW, am I the ONLY ship modeler on this list? It sure seems so, and in lookin >around the web page it becomes clear that WWI was fought solely in the air and >on the ground. :-) Oh well.... Well yes and no. I build WW1 aircraft but would love to build WW1 ships as well - except they're as rare as the proverbial rocking horse sh.. er, manure. Now if someone would release a 1:350 scale HMAS Sydney to sink the pesky Emden, or a HMS Lion, Derflingger etc etc... Actually, I'd settle for decent plans. Regards Shane *Weier* sdw@qld.mim.com.au Brisbane, Australia ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 239 *********************