WWI Digest 202 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Thread by SCLexicat@aol.com 2) Re: Vehicles by "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" 3) 25 July 1916, Buc by u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu 4) Re: Some stuff for that *other* scale by "Brian Bushe" 5) Re: Vehicles by "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" 6) Flying Tank by u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu 7) Re: SE5a - Thread by Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) 8) Re: Thread by MEBA@cso.com 9) The final word on OTF rates by "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" 10) WWI in the Air (25 Jul 1916) by u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu 11) Re: Vehicles by MEBA@cso.com 12) Re: Vehicles by aew (Allan Wright) 13) Re: Drafting Tape and ribs by Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) 14) Re: Flying Tank by "Joseph J. Gentile, III" 15) new email by u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu 16) Re: Flying Tank by Robert Johnson 17) Re: Living Aces by cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) 18) Unfinished models - new danger!! by michel.lefort@ping.be (Michel LEFORT) 19) Re: T-shirts/ Sky etchings by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 20) Re: Flying Tank by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 21) Re: Flying Tank by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 22) Finsihes for Willy Coppens' Hanriots by Robert Johnson 23) Mail address change by jsthorn@mindspring.com (Jesse Thorn) 24) Re: Flying Tank by "Joseph J. Gentile, III" 25) Re: Finsihes for Willy Coppens' Hanriots by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 26) Re: Finsihes for Willy Coppens' Hanriots by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 27) Re: Flying Tank by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 28) Vehicles by NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) 29) Fokker DVII database by NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 04:22:51 -0400 From: SCLexicat@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Thread Message-ID: <960725042250_441545171@emout12.mail.aol.com> Charles writes: >SE5a - mix of Monogram/Lindbergh parts I'd be interested in hearing which bits are coming from which kit, and what the main problems are in achieving a good outline... Simon Craven, Lexicat Ltd, England sclexicat@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 6:37:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" To: wwi Subject: Re: Vehicles Message-ID: <960725063752.23400c38@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> Thanks, Bill, for your nice words about "Beyond the Legend." If you liked that one, you should enjoy trhe companion volume (now in the works), which is an operational history JG I -- as told from all sides via combat reports, etc. Some of the "raw" research has color info, which I'll pass on to this group as it pops up. You will notice, though, that colors and theiruse are often a matter of intrepretation. One RFC report, for example, identifies MvR's Alb. D.III ashaving a red fuselage, black wings and "iron cross" [national markings] within a white circle." I guess the observer saw it as a circle in the blur of aerial combat. But interesting observations nonetheless. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:06:49 -0400 From: u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu To: wwi Subject: 25 July 1916, Buc Message-ID: <199607251106.HAA13255@ns1.dmsc.net> Fair day but too windy for flying in a.m. Letter from Paul Rockwell, Dave & Mrs. Wheeler (they're on a canoe trip in Eastern Canada now) and an English fellow in the Canadian forces now training in Canada, Ralph Cooper by name. Replied to Dave and R. Cooper in p.m. Big bunch being kicked out of this school lately. Its entirely too easy to get kicked out here. Two rather poor flights in late p.m. Ought to have done better wind was bad. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:08:57 +0000 From: "Brian Bushe" To: wwi Subject: Re: Some stuff for that *other* scale Message-ID: <199607251109.MAA29980@itl.net> re: Re: Some stuff for that *other* sca > On 24 Jul 96 at 12:10, Brian Bushe typed diligantly: > > > I thought i sent a brief appraisal of some of these a short while > > back. Hi tech resin is delightfully detailed and afaik bubble > > free. it is expensive (the albatros detail set is the same price > > as the Eduard Albatros as a guide, and could do with a bit more > > substance). The merc appears very nice. > > Wow. Over here, the Albatros set goes for US$14, which is at least > US$10 less than the Albatros. I would suspect that the price > difference is in the Albatros, maybe? Spot on, Matt. The Hi Tech stuff does appear to be less expensive in the states! probably because 'le shuttle' is so expensive. On the other hand Eduard is possibly the only range that is cheaper in the UK, including UK produced brands! :-( the wonders of a mass market. I hear the Jap companies still sell more in Japan than in the rest of the world! Brian 'But on a positive note.....' Brian Bushe syclone@itl.net Syclone Systems (44) 1628 789 470 Maidenhead Fax 789 513 Berkshire England ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 7:43:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" To: wwi Subject: Re: Vehicles Message-ID: <960725074317.23400d3c@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> Still looking for that Crossley Tender and Rolls Royce, so I can provice better info for folks who want to get them. Meanwhile, there was a query about W/Cdr Gwilym H. Lewis' outstanding book "Wings Over the Somme." Well, take heart, folks, because there IS a new edition of that classic book. Same title, of course, but the new publisher is Bridge Books, 61 Park Avenue, Wrexham, Clwyd, LL12 7AW / England (Fax: 0978-358661). Edition came out in 1994 as edited by Chaz Bowyer (a guy who needs no introdcution. Book is well illustrated, includingphotos of aeroplanes.Price is L 19.95 (i.e., almost 20 pounds sterling). PK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:16:24 -0400 From: u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu To: wwi Subject: Flying Tank Message-ID: <199607251216.IAA14012@ns1.dmsc.net> this from THE CHICAGO DAILY TRIBUNE, Tuesday, May 21, 1918, by Edwin L. James: BULLET FROM FLYING TANK SLEW LUFBERY \ Six Yankee Flyers Fire in Vain at Machine. WITH THE AMERICAN ARMY IN FRANCE, May 2O-- It was after six American aviators had attacked in vain yesterday that Maj. Raoul Lufbery took the air back of the American sector north of Toul against a giant enemy biplane, a few seconds later to leap from his machine as it burst into flames, and drop to the earth. This type of "flying tank", it became known here today, is practically invunerable to the bullets and machine guns now used by American flyers. So it was in a hopeless struggle that America's foremost ace lost his life, after his bullets had rattled harmlessly off the armored German machine. American aviators recently had made a recored against the boche airmen. Yesterday morning the score stood 10 to 2. American airmen flying French Nieuports evenly matched the German combat machines, and it now appears that the Germans were determined to make a special effort to even up the score. GIANT PLANE APPEARS Early yesterday morning a giant plane appeared over the American airdromes, moving slowly. Immediately the "alert" signal was given. Two Americans started up, and two others followed. When they got to a height of about 2,500 meters they found themselves face to face with a giant German plane with a wing spread of sixty feet, carrying a pilot and two gunners and driven by two engines. It was a biplane. The engines were armored and the pilot sat in a steel house. The gunners wore armor and occupied protected positions, each manning a heavy machine gun. The American fighters sent streams of bullets in vain against the new enemy. One American got in close and sent 300 bullets sweeping against the flying tank, without results. OTHER YANKEES TAKE AIR By this time other Americans were in the air, trying to bring down the Germans, who loafed along, not seeming to mind bullets at all. The scene, in full view for many miles, looked like a lot of swallows pecking at a giant bird of prey, and this was witnessed by hundreds of soldiers and civilians. When one of the Americans landed, out of ammunition, and reported his inability to do damage to the German machine, Lufbery asked and received permission to try. He mounted up above the German, got his machine gun going well, and swept head first at the monster plane. When part of the way had been traversed he swerved off, supposedly because his machine gun jammed. But in a few minutes he was back at the boche machine again, and dashed by with his machine gun going, but produced no effect on the enemy plane. BREAKS INTO FLAMES He was seen to turn and start up at the enemy again, when suddenly he swerved and a thin line of flame shot from his machine, which seemed to hang still for a moment and then dart down. This took place at an altitude of 2000 meteres (3300 yds). When his machine was at an altitude of about 1500 meters, the American ace was seen to arise and leap into midair.... By this time French aviators had heard of the newcomer and awaited him near Nancy. They had the same experience as the Americans. They sent hundreds of bullets against the steel air monster, without success.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:33:16 -0500 From: Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) To: wwi Subject: Re: SE5a - Thread Message-ID: <1996Jul25.053217.1155.457599@uprr-internet.notes.up.com> A couple list members have asked about the SE5a I'm into, the fuselage, wings, and radiator front are all Monogram parts the stabilizers are coming from the Lindberg kit as they have the correct spacing for the ribs stations. I want to use the engine from the Lindberg kit but I'm not that far in the project yet. Using a set of calipers (with the Datafile on the SE5a), the Monogram kit's fuselage had to be narrowed - especially around the vertical tail. The cockpit area too rounded and needs to be enlarged and have more of a straight edge when one looks at it from the side. When you hold the Monogram kit (upgraded Aurora) next to Eduard's pre-Albatros DV release it's not a bad model considering it's 1956 birthday. In summary, the only Lindberg parts I'm using so far are the horizontal stabilizers, engine (maybe) - I'll put out another follow up email as I move along on this project. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 07:49:20 -0500 From: MEBA@cso.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Thread Message-ID: <199607250748.HAA06210@cso.com> On 24 Jul 96 at 14:20, Charles A. Duckworth typed diligantly: > FE2b - Aeroclub > Still plugging away on the Fee; Fuselage interior completed. The > wings came in three sections so one has to 1) glue with ACC 2) > fill the gaps with Dr. Micro putty 3) scrape and wet/dry sand > putty 4) spray primer grey to denote screwups go back to steps > 2/3. Then add top and bottom wing tapes using drafting tape that > were removed during step 3. (I keep telling myself this is a > HOBBY)! What exactly is drafting tape? Do you think it could be used for 1/72nd, or is it too thick? TIA! Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 8:52:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "PETER KILDUFF, UNIVERSITY RELATIONS, 21791" To: wwi Subject: The final word on OTF rates Message-ID: <960725085254.23400e0f@CCSUA.CTSTATEU.EDU> As noted last time, I've checked with League of WW I Aviation Histrorians president Jim Streckfuss for *the latest, most accurate* info re: subscription and mailing rates for OVER THE FRONT. so, here's the word from The League's equivalent of KoGenLuft: From: JStreckfus@aol.com To: KILDUFF@ccsua.ctstateu.edu Subject: Re: REPLIES Peter: Thanks for the latest. Here are the subscription rates from last year's renewal notice: U.S. & Canada (4th class) $37 U.S. & Canada (1st class) $48 All other countries--surface mail $37 U.K., Europe, Africa, S. America--airmail $53 Pacific and Far East--airmail $63 Hope that helps. Any more details than that you'd probably better get from Dick Bennett, but I think that's the complete picture. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:14:52 -0400 From: u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu To: wwi Subject: WWI in the Air (25 Jul 1916) Message-ID: <199607251314.JAA14193@ns1.dmsc.net> <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: wwi-l@raven.cc.ukans.edu From: Paul Silbermann To: WWI list Subject: WWI in the Air (25 Jul 1916) 7/25/1916 2 German aircraft attack Russian positions n of Lutsk. Russian air reconnaissnace reports the Turkish troops in Erzinjan (c Armenia) are burning their stores (Russian ground forces were reported 10 miles away). _Aeronautics_ (London), 2 Aug 1916, p.77. German aircraft attack Russian trains on the Dvinsk-Polotsk rail line and the rail lines e of Minsk. German aircraft attack rail stations at Pogoryeltsy and Gorodyeva. _Aeronautics_ (London), 2 Aug 1916, p.78. 1 Zeppelin attacks Abo (Aland Isl, Finland) and the mouth of the Gulf of Finland before withdrawing under fire of ground batteries. 1 German naval airship attack Russian and British submarine base at Mariehamm (Aland Isl, mouth of the Gulf of Bothnia). A Zeppelin is sighted off the Swedish coast (Aland Sea area) heading n "accompanied by an aeroplane." After a "heavy cannonade" was reported to the east, the Zeppelin was seen descending twds the Aland Islands until the "cannonade" resumed and the Zeppelin climbed into the clouds (no further sightings of the aircraft). _Aeronautics_ (London), 2 Aug 1916, p.78-79. 8 German seaplanes attack Russian seaplane station nr the mouth of the Gulf of Finland. German seaplanes attack Russian aerodrome at Zerel (isl. of Oesel, n of Gulf of Riga). _Aeronautics_ (London), 2 Aug 1916, p.77-78. The Swedish barque _Susanne_ arrives off Falkenberg with 2 German seaplanes in tow. The aircraft had force-landed while on anti-submarine reconnaissance, but the crews completed repairs to the aircraft while under tow and were able to take off under their own power before the barque reached port. _Aeronautics_ (London), 2 Aug 1916, p.78. -- night of 25/26 Jul -- French aircraft attack Thionville and Rombach (n of Metz). French aircraft attack rail stations at Vilosnes and Brieulles and bivouacs nr Dannevoux. _Aeronautics_ (London), 2 Aug 1916, p.77. -- Claims -- Russian seaplanes claim 1 attacking German seaplane shot down over the Gulf of Finland. _Aeronautics_ (London), 2 Aug 1916, p.77. German aircraft claim 1 French aircraft shot down s of Binarville (nw of Verdun) (Ltn. Baldomus, 4th). German aircraft claim 1 Russian aircraft shot down w of Burkanov. German aircraft claim 1 French aircraft shot down nr Beine (e of Reims). _Aeronautics_ (London), 2 Aug 1916, p.78. -- British Losses -- * BE2c No.2744 (No.7 Sqn) listed as MIA on contact patrol to Thiepval-Pozieres KIA: Steytler, 2Lt. E. D. WIA/POW: Robertson, 2Lt. J. G. Trevor Henshaw, _The Sky Their Battlefield_ (London: Grubb Street, 1995), p .97. * BE2c No.2653 (No.9 Sqn) shot down (poss. in flames) by enemy aircraft over Delville Wood, listed as MIA KIA: Brown, 2Lt. J. A. KIA: Bowyer, 2Lt. F. Henshaw, p.97. **************** WWI in the Air (25 Jul 1916) ***************** <---- End Forwarded Message ----> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:15:06 -0500 From: MEBA@cso.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Vehicles Message-ID: <199607250814.IAA07636@cso.com> On 24 Jul 96 at 18:38, Charles A. Duckworth typed diligantly: > British and American WWI soldiers in this scale. An FT-17 was > issued with a WWII French Char B tank by Matchbox and is a nicely > done model - too bad they didn't release separately; these - I'm > guessing were in 1/76 scale. The FWIW, the FT.17 is *perfect* for detailing out the interior. ;-) And, as Bill has stated, it is 1/76th. Do what I did: look for another small scale armor builder that isn't interested in WW1, and split the kit with that person! Heck, I even got the base and figures out of the deal! :-) Matt -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Matthew Bittner Omaha, Nebraska meba@cso.com 1/72nd WW1 modeler, ecto subscriber -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:22:17 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: Vehicles Message-ID: <199607251322.JAA17956@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Also in this month's Squadron from AER (from Russia) 1/72 scale ZIS-5 and ZIS-5 automobile - they look old-ish but probable early WWII not WWI? -Al ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:40:50 -0500 From: Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) To: wwi Subject: Re: Drafting Tape and ribs Message-ID: <1996Jul25.083739.1155.458032@uprr-internet.notes.up.com> Matt asked about my use of drafting tape for redefining rib tapes. Drafting tape is sold in an art supply store, it is very thin and not as tacky as normal masking tape. The thinness allows one to mask over air intakes and when it's pulled back up after painting it does not leave any trace of glue. Painting When painting a camouflage I spray my base color (i.e., beige) then lightly pencil in my next color line (i.e.., Dark green) the drafting tape is laid out on a piece of glass and cut with a single edged razor blade or Exacto knife and applied to the model, most articles in Fine Scale Modeler mention use of drafting tape for this purpose. Adding rib tapes As the tape is very thin and one can make a 1 1/2 - 2" wide strip x 10' (scale) long and place over the missing rib station. I don't know how it would look in 1/72nd as rib tape but someone could experiment on a model and update the list. Painted rib tapes Another method I use for making the rib tapes show up better is to paint the wing the base color for clear dope, then cut the drafting tape the width between the rib stations so as you apply the tape you leave a 2" gap where the rib tapes would normally be located. Then spray a slightly darker hue of your base dope color over the wing - when you remove the tape the ribbing will show up better. Hope these comments help - Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:01:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph J. Gentile, III" To: wwi Subject: Re: Flying Tank Message-ID: <199607251601.LAA27485@Walden.MO.NET> At 08:02 AM 7/25/96 -0400, you wrote: >this from THE CHICAGO DAILY TRIBUNE, Tuesday, May 21, 1918, by Edwin L. James: > >BULLET FROM FLYING TANK SLEW LUFBERY \ Six Yankee Flyers Fire in Vain at >Machine. > >WITH THE AMERICAN ARMY IN FRANCE, May 2O-- It was after six American aviators >had attacked in vain yesterday that Maj. Raoul Lufbery took the air back of the >American sector north of Toul against a giant enemy biplane, a few seconds later >to leap from his machine as it burst into flames, and drop to the earth. > This type of "flying tank", it became known here today, is practically >invunerable to the bullets and machine guns now used by American flyers. > So it was in a hopeless struggle that America's foremost ace lost his life, >after his bullets had rattled harmlessly off the armored German machine. > American aviators recently had made a recored against the boche airmen. >Yesterday morning the score stood 10 to 2. American airmen flying French >Nieuports evenly matched the German combat machines, and it now appears that the >Germans were determined to make a special effort to even up the score. > >GIANT PLANE APPEARS > Help me out please. What type of aircraft was this "flying tank"? > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:37:59 -0400 From: u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu To: wwi Subject: new email Message-ID: <199607251637.MAA15183@ns1.dmsc.net> To anyone interested: I have a new email . My old email is still active, but I can't access it, so if you have tried to contact me during the past few hours and haven't heard from me, it means I did not receive your message and you should retry me at new address. Thanks, Bradley Omanson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:33:49 +0000 From: Robert Johnson To: wwi Subject: Re: Flying Tank Message-ID: <9607251029.aa10720@scosysv.speechsys.com> Joseph writes: > Help me out please. What type of aircraft was this "flying tank"? Probably just yellow journalism. Big airplanes were harder to destroy with .303 ammo, so pilots used to smaller quarry might think they were armored. Then add journalistic exaggeration. Conceivably, an armored J type could have been mistaken for a twin in the heat of the moment. Or perhaps the armored, ground attack prototypes of the AEG saw some action? Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 96 14:00:20 EDT From: cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) To: wwi Subject: Re: Living Aces Message-ID: <199607251800.OAA16569@conted.swann.gatech.edu> Guys, Here's another one: Cecil Lewis, 56 Squadron (among others), 8 victories, living in Corfu. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:12:34 GMT From: michel.lefort@ping.be (Michel LEFORT) To: wwi Subject: Unfinished models - new danger!! Message-ID: <31f7b8c4.16801079@relay.ping.be> On 25 Jul 1996 12:26:48 -0400, in rec.models.scale sclexicat@aol.com (SC Lexicat) wrote: >Thought you might be interested in this extract from today's Yorkshire >Post. It's about the activities of an extortionist here in Britain who is >threatening banks and stores with bombs unless they pay him huge sums of >money > > >Detective Superintendent John Beadle told a Scotland Yard news > >conference that... the attacker's previous devices ... had been put > >together with considerable care. He appealed to the public to be > >alert to any acquaintances who had an obsessive hobby, spending > >hours locked away building something but with no finished product > >to show for the effort. > >So you'd better be sure to finish something soon, guys. > >Simon Craven >Lexicat Ltd >England I just thought that it might interest those among us who spend 12 months on a model. It seems that modelling is becoming a dangerous hobby ;-). Regards. ---===========================================================--- Michel Lefort - Braine-l'Alleud, Belgium http://www.ping.be/~ping1076 A bus station is a place where the bus starts. A train station is a place where the train starts. Why do they insist on putting a workstation on my desk? I wonder... ---===========================================================--- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:42:15 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: T-shirts/ Sky etchings Message-ID: <199607252042.QAA11711@ns1.ptd.net> At 08:39 PM 7/24/96 -0400, William B. Bacom wrote: ...... >For you T-shirt people, The September 1996 issue of "Aviation History" >has an ad from Air Wear listng T-shirts with Hat in the Ring (SPAD), >Dawn Patrol (Camel) [Illustrated threee Camel in Echelon], The Red >Baron, Albatros Scout, Nungesser's Black Heart, Lafayette Escadrille. >Sizes M-L-XL $14.00 ea/ $2.50 P&H > >The illustration is in b&w but catalog available SASE to: > > Sky Etchings, Inc. > P.O. Box855 > Syosset, NY > 11791 Let me add what I know about these shirts. The guy who runs/owns the business is Charlie Knotek. I've been buying shirt from him through the mail for 4 years now at Christmas-time for myself and my daughter. The shirts are of high quality (i.e. they don't shrink too much.) and the artwork is superb. For my $$$$ the best of the lot is the Albatros: Black shirt with white and red airplane/lettering set against a gray-blue German eagle. It's quite striking, as far as t-shirts go. Next best bet would be Dawn Patrol: Camels against a red-oraange sun on a white shirt. He also has a new one depicting a Zeppelin. Haven't seen it yet but the catalog describes it as: black shirt, red lettering with white outline"ZEPPELIN" outline of Zeppelin against a yellow moon. I've talked with Charlie a few times on the phone. He's a genuinely nice guy and is quite interested in WWI aviation. The next one scheduled is "Enlist in the USAS": A Jenny bursting through the star on the post-war insignia with an eagle head in background. Looks like a recruiting poster according to Charlie. He keeps dreaming about an SE-5a "Hun Hunter" and I've been lobbying(without much success) for Willi Coppens' Hanriot blowing up a balloon. Anyway, if it's t-shirts you're into, you can't go wrong. His business phone # is 516-921-6574. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:56:12 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Flying Tank Message-ID: <199607252056.QAA15773@ns1.ptd.net> At 08:02 AM 7/25/96 -0400, u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu wrote: >this from THE CHICAGO DAILY TRIBUNE, Tuesday, May 21, 1918, by Edwin L. James: > >BULLET FROM FLYING TANK SLEW LUFBERY \ Six Yankee Flyers Fire in Vain at >Machine. I'm enjoying these old newspaper "clipping" even more than the diary. Keep up the great work! Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 17:21:25 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Flying Tank Message-ID: <199607252121.RAA22587@ns1.ptd.net> At 11:56 AM 7/25/96 -0400, Joseph J. Gentile, III wrote: >At 08:02 AM 7/25/96 -0400, you wrote: >>this from THE CHICAGO DAILY TRIBUNE, Tuesday, May 21, 1918, by Edwin L. James: >> >>BULLET FROM FLYING TANK SLEW LUFBERY \ Six Yankee Flyers Fire in Vain at >>Machine. >> >>WITH THE AMERICAN ARMY IN FRANCE, May 2O-- It was after six American aviators >>had attacked in vain yesterday that Maj. Raoul Lufbery took the air back of >the >>American sector north of Toul against a giant enemy biplane, a few seconds >later >>to leap from his machine as it burst into flames, and drop to the earth. >> This type of "flying tank", it became known here today, is practically >>invunerable to the bullets and machine guns now used by American flyers. >> So it was in a hopeless struggle that America's foremost ace lost his life, >>after his bullets had rattled harmlessly off the armored German machine. >> American aviators recently had made a recored against the boche airmen. >>Yesterday morning the score stood 10 to 2. American airmen flying French >>Nieuports evenly matched the German combat machines, and it now appears >that the >>Germans were determined to make a special effort to even up the score. >> >>GIANT PLANE APPEARS >> > >Help me out please. What type of aircraft was this "flying tank"? An article in Over the Front, Summer, 1991, on the 94th Aero Squadron gives a good summary. The German plane was a Rumpler 2-seater from Reihenbildtrupp of Armee Abteilung C flown by Gefreiter Kirschbaum and Ltn. Scheibe. Oscar Gude was the first USAS pilot to attack. He expended all his ammo and flew away. Lufbeerry and Huffer took off after Gude landed with Lufberry flying the plane usually flown by lt. P. Davis (#16). Lufberry was shot down by Ltn. Scheibe's defensive fire. The Rumpler went back at it's job and encountered a flight of SPADs from Spa 68. Ltn. Scheibe's defensive fire killed Adjutant Pierre Baudry. Sgt Dupre was able to score enough hits to force the Rumpler to surrender and land near Flainval, just NW of Luneville. Interestingly, Davis was shot down while flying Lufberry's old plane(#2) on June 2, 1918 by Ltn. Hengst of Jasta 64w. I seem to remember something about Gude being held in low esteem after the fight and getting transferred out. Anyway, I don"t think that Scheibe and Kirschbaum were wearing armor! The OTF article is a great one for modelers. It covers all the Nieuport 28s of the 94th and explains how the markings were applied, who flew them etc. A great resource for working on the new Glencoe kit. Hope this Helps. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 16:36:04 +0000 From: Robert Johnson To: wwi Subject: Finsihes for Willy Coppens' Hanriots Message-ID: <9607251631.aa13053@scosysv.speechsys.com> Does anyone have a source for photos of the "pale blue" and "canary yellow" Hanriot HD.1s that Belgian ace Willy coppens is said to have flown? I would also be interested in serial numbers and squadron or personal markings. Thanks. Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:47:30 -0400 From: jsthorn@mindspring.com (Jesse Thorn) To: wwi Subject: Mail address change Message-ID: Al, I suspect this is not the proper way for list members to do address changes but I have lost the intsructions. I have a new email account at jsthorn@clt.mindspring.com. The old one was thorn@nando.net. Could you change this? Still working on the Whippet! - I moved to Charlotte, NC and my life is head over heals right now. Thanks, --Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 19:42:48 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph J. Gentile, III" To: wwi Subject: Re: Flying Tank Message-ID: <199607260042.TAA10040@Walden.MO.NET> At 05:20 PM 7/25/96 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:56 AM 7/25/96 -0400, Joseph J. Gentile, III wrote: >>At 08:02 AM 7/25/96 -0400, you wrote: >>>this from THE CHICAGO DAILY TRIBUNE, Tuesday, May 21, 1918, by Edwin L. James: >>> >>>BULLET FROM FLYING TANK SLEW LUFBERY \ Six Yankee Flyers Fire in Vain at >>>Machine. >>> >>>WITH THE AMERICAN ARMY IN FRANCE, May 2O-- It was after six American aviators >>>had attacked in vain yesterday that Maj. Raoul Lufbery took the air back of >>the >>>American sector north of Toul against a giant enemy biplane, a few seconds >>later >>>to leap from his machine as it burst into flames, and drop to the earth. >>> This type of "flying tank", it became known here today, is practically >>>invunerable to the bullets and machine guns now used by American flyers. >>> So it was in a hopeless struggle that America's foremost ace lost his life, >>>after his bullets had rattled harmlessly off the armored German machine. >>> American aviators recently had made a recored against the boche airmen. >>>Yesterday morning the score stood 10 to 2. American airmen flying French >>>Nieuports evenly matched the German combat machines, and it now appears >>that the >>>Germans were determined to make a special effort to even up the score. >>> >>>GIANT PLANE APPEARS >>> >> >>Help me out please. What type of aircraft was this "flying tank"? > > > An article in Over the Front, Summer, 1991, on the 94th Aero >Squadron gives a good summary. The German plane was a Rumpler 2-seater from >Reihenbildtrupp of Armee Abteilung C flown by Gefreiter Kirschbaum and Ltn. >Scheibe. Oscar Gude was the first USAS pilot to attack. He expended all his >ammo and flew away. Lufbeerry and Huffer took off after Gude landed with >Lufberry flying the plane usually flown by lt. P. Davis (#16). Lufberry was >shot down by Ltn. Scheibe's defensive fire. > The Rumpler went back at it's job and encountered a flight of SPADs >from Spa 68. Ltn. Scheibe's defensive fire killed Adjutant Pierre Baudry. >Sgt Dupre was able to score enough hits to force the Rumpler to surrender >and land near Flainval, just NW of Luneville. > Interestingly, Davis was shot down while flying Lufberry's old >plane(#2) on June 2, 1918 by Ltn. Hengst of Jasta 64w. > I seem to remember something about Gude being held in low esteem >after the fight and getting transferred out. >Anyway, I don"t think that Scheibe and Kirschbaum were wearing armor! >The OTF article is a great one for modelers. It covers all the Nieuport 28s >of the 94th and explains how the markings were applied, who flew them etc. A >great resource for working on the new Glencoe kit. >Hope this Helps. >Mike Muth > > > >Thank you for the detailed follow up. I'm new to this list and a re-born modeller. I took a fifteen year layoff after high school to go to college, get married, build a carreer and have 3 kids! Now that I have ALL of this free time available to me I thought, "what the hell, time to get back into modelling". So I started with my first and original love. WWII German armor. Boring, did it, done that, nothing new. So how about something a little removed from the norm. Next thing, I find myself surfing through the net when lo and behold I am face to face with the images of Steve Husteds work! That got the candle going. I have corresponded with Steve and I don't think I'll ever forgive him for introducing me to Barry and Rosemont. The rest is an ongoing saga. Once again, thanks for the detailed input.\ Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 22:50:11 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Finsihes for Willy Coppens' Hanriots Message-ID: <199607260250.WAA23668@ns1.ptd.net> At 06:35 PM 7/25/96 -0400, Robert Johnson wrote: >Does anyone have a source for photos of the "pale blue" and "canary >yellow" Hanriot HD.1s that Belgian ace Willy coppens is said to have >flown? I would also be interested in serial numbers and squadron or >personal markings. I thought that the Canary Yellow aircraft was was the Hanriot flown by de Meulemeester. In Air Aces of the 1914-1918 War, there is a section on Belgian aces. It talks about how de M. was reluctant to fly the Hanriot for quite some time, but finally agreed but insisted it be painted "canary yellow." It then talks about the "yellow flight", referring to deM. and his ywo wingmen: Kervyn de Lettenhove and Custo de Mevius. Does anyone know if all 3 flew canary yellow Hanriots? De M. actually flew his to the nearby British airfields so that he wouldn't be mistaken for a German. Unfortunately,nothing more about the color. Same for Coppens' Hanriot. I remember seeing a replica at Lake Gunther, and the blue looked like the "true blue" used by the US Army in the 30's. If you get any good info, I'd be interested in getting a copy. I've always liked the Belgian group. As far as markings go Esc. 2....Seagull Observation Breguets Esc. 3....Holly leaf Observation " " Esc. 4....Zebra Observation SPAD 11s Esc. 6....Bee Observation " " Esc. 7....Dragon Observation H. Farmans Esc. 9....Thistle Fighter HD 1s Esc. 10...Comet Fighter SPAD 13 Esc. 11...Cocotte Fighter Camels This info is as of September, 1918. Hope this helps. Mike Muth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 22:52:02 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Finsihes for Willy Coppens' Hanriots Message-ID: <199607260252.WAA24135@ns1.ptd.net> Rob, I just remembered that there is a great color picture of Coppens' HD1, in 5 color camo on the back of the current Over The Front. It shows a sunburst type of tail in black & white. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 22:54:54 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Flying Tank Message-ID: <199607260254.WAA25032@ns1.ptd.net> At 08:37 PM 7/25/96 -0400, Joseph J. Gentile, III wrote: >>Thank you for the detailed follow up. I'm new to this list and a re-born >modeller. >I took a fifteen year layoff after high school to go to college, get >married, build a carreer and have 3 kids! Now that I have ALL of this free >time available to me I thought, "what the hell, time to get back into >modelling". So I started with my first and original love. WWII German >armor. Boring, did it, done that, nothing new. So how about something a >little removed from the norm. Next thing, I find myself surfing through the >net when lo and behold I am face to face with the images of Steve Husteds >work! That got the candle going. I have corresponded with Steve and I >don't think I'll ever forgive him for introducing me to Barry and Rosemont. >The rest is an ongoing saga. Once again, thanks for the detailed input.\ > >Joe Yeah, it ncan get scary all the time that gets spent. Be thankful you don't live close to Rosemont. It's only a 1 hr drive for me, and I think I'm sspending my daughter's college fund there sometimes. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:09:22, -0500 From: NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) To: wwi Subject: Vehicles Message-ID: <199607260109.VAA04338@mime2.prodigy.com> -- [ From: Kenneth Hagerup * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- To add to the list, I have a 1/72 Thorneycroft 1-1/2 ton parcel van. The kit is by Keilkraft. I think the prototype dates from the 20's, but it is getting closer to the right era. Does anyone still have the address for the manufacturer of WWI armored cars mentioned on the list recently? I think the manufacturer was from San Francisco. TIA Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 21:09:24, -0500 From: NPWE28A@prodigy.com ( KENNETH L HAGERUP) To: wwi Subject: Fokker DVII database Message-ID: <199607260109.VAA09214@mime2.prodigy.com> -- [ From: Kenneth Hagerup * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- This may seem like an inpossible project, but I can't imagine a more capable group to tackle it. I think it might be invaluable to modelers if we could put together a database of every DVII built including dates, Jasta, pilot, engine, s/n, streaked, 4 or 5 color fabric, markings, etc. As a beginning, we could put together the data on the photos in our respective libraries. How about DVIIIs, or Dr1s? Any thoughts? Ken ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 202 *********************