WWI Digest 179 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) re: New thread by MEBA@cso.com 2) Greg Van Wyngarden by MEBA@cso.com 3) Re: New thread by Mick Fauchon 4) What else is there? by Mick Fauchon 5) Re: New thread by Mick Fauchon 6) Re: New thread by Mick Fauchon 7) Re: Revell Fokker D.VII by Mick Fauchon 8) Re: Revell Fokker D.VII by Mick Fauchon 9) Re: New thread by Mick Fauchon 10) Re: New thread by Mick Fauchon 11) Re: New thread by Mick Fauchon 12) Re: Prop rotation on Bristol fighters? by Bultaco13@aol.com 13) Re: Fokker factory finish by mrandall@INNOVA.WA.COM (David M. Randall) 14) Re: French color matches by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 15) Re: Fotocut 1/48 stitching & the Pup by Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) 16) Polly Scale colors by u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu 17) Re: Fokker factory finish by Mick Fauchon 18) Re: Fokker factory finish by "Guy Fogel" 19) Re: Fokker factory finish by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 20) Quality of Workmanship by lfendy@firstsaga.com 21) oh no, ailerons!... by Erik Pilawskii 22) Re: New thread by gregrydquist@juno.com (Gregory N Rydquist) 23) Re: New thread by "S.M. Head" 24) Re: oh no, ailerons!... by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 07:47:39 -0500 From: MEBA@cso.com To: wwi Subject: re: New thread Message-ID: <199607030743.HAA27415@cso.com> On 3 Jul 96 at 8:08, KENNETH L HAGERUP typed diligantly: > Corrected Airfix Mk I > Converted Airfix Mk II Shouldn't that be "Converted Airfix Mk.I" and "Corrected Airfix Mk.II"? (For those who don't know, out of the box the Airfix "Mk.I" is actually closer to a Mk.II.) > And, also in the proper scale of 1/72, Amati's Type VIIB U-boat. Hey, I thought that I said not to post out of context stuff!!! ;-) Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 07:45:06 -0500 From: MEBA@cso.com To: WW1 Modelers Subject: Greg Van Wyngarden Message-ID: <199607030741.HAA27282@cso.com> Finally talked to Greg Van Wyngarden last night. What a delightful person to talk to! As I'm sure I've left out people's inquiries to me to ask him, I'll only go into those things he gave answers to. ;-) Attention Richard of Blue Rider: We got into a lengthy discussion of French Escadrille markings last night. He too recommended any of the articles published by Jon Guttman, especially those in the original Cross and Cockade, Over the Front, and the Legionnaire series for Windsock. He also said he's more than willing to help in any regard as he can - just be aware that he's an awfully busy WW1 historian. ;-) One issue of Cross and Cockade he recommended comes from Vol.7. He's forwarding me an extra copy, from which I will color photocopy the art in question and send it to you. I'll need a snail mail address for this. He went into one specific marking, the stork. His current thinking is that when it was applied to "light" camouflage (such as Aluminum Nie.17's) the stork was red, whereas when it was applied to "dark" camouflaged machines the stork was white. Lafayette Escadrille: I asked him about issues of Cross and Cockade that contained articles about the LE. The only one he specifically mentioned was an article in Vol.3. That's as far as he went. He did offer, though, that if you had the booklet from the decals put out by Americal, you probably have all the markings info you need. He also recommended the Biographies book I referenced in an earlier post. Fokker E.III: He was extremely skeptical, and not very commital when asked about the number of wing ribs. He only mentioned that "they varied". Heh. He's looking forward to the day when they bring down the one in the Imperial Museum and refurbish it. For our UK contingent: In the process of research, he came across a reference to "Butcher Blue" from an official British war document. Anybody know what "Butcher Blue" is, and if there are any Methuen/Munsell/FS numbers to match? Future: I'm not at liberty to discuss specifics, but you want to start saving your money *now*! Some of the items "in the works" are amazing, but definitely not cheap. Granted, these all have to do with the "historical end", and not specifically modeling, but all will help out the modeling community. He's the editor for the next issue of Over the Front, and all I can say is if you like French bombers, then you want this issue! Hey, if you're not a subsciber and on this list, then what's wrong with you? ;-) (A friendly plug for a great organization.) Modeling: When I mentioned the Eduard photo-etch Fokkers, he drew a heavy sigh and chuckled a bit. He couldn't belive it. Just hopes that they're accurate, and Eduard does *all* of their homework. Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 23:13:17 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: New thread Message-ID: Alberto, > Before I leave let me tell you folks, that this list is absolutely > incredible and since, I am enjoying my hobby much much more, > and learning a hell of a lot. And that, amigo, is the name of the game! Actually, they're a bunch of ratbags......but the best bunch of ratbags in the world, God love 'em! We'll have to get together [physically] on neutral ground some time. That would be tremendous! But please, not somewhere like Antarctica or Tierra del Fuego! 80) Mick 80( -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 23:20:31 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: WW1Av Subject: What else is there? Message-ID: Thanks for a great night, fellas! I didn't get any modelling done, but I enjoyed it all immensely. Having wrought all the destruction I can for one evening, I'm off to bed. Nighty-night 80), Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 22:59:13 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: New thread Message-ID: > I'm adding the finishing touches to an Eduard Eindekker (windshield, > photo-etch turnbuckles, etc.), Now that's a point that's always intrigued me: *how* do you [or does one 80)] make turnbuckles out of Eduard's turnbuckles? > > All the above projects are 1/48 of course. Which is, of course, a sine qua non......80) Mick. > -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 23:02:56 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: New thread Message-ID: Mike and Erik, > >Roland! Imagine that! Imagine! 80) > Erik, > Thanks for the encouragement. > Mike We're always one to encourage here; don't tell me you hadn't noticed! 80) ........sometimes to the point of distraction 80) 80) Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 22:04:35 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Revell Fokker D.VII Message-ID: > > FWIW I had heard this same rumor as well (does this make it any more > true ?). I would be curious to know if the source drawings could be > ferretted out somehow to see how the glaring errors in this kit crept in as > they did. Are there Wylam drawings of Fokker D-VIIs out there from 30+ > years ago ? Apart from the wing taper, did I miss some more glaring errors. I recently read a review in Heaven-knows-what, which really bagged the kit, which I thought was a bit rough [the review, not the kit 80)]. The reviewer seemed to think that the kit was horribly out of proportion: I haven't scaled any of my drawings up to 1/28 yet, so I don't know. there was also a comment that most of the strutting, incl. the u/cart was too frail. To my mind, the kit seemed to bear a quite close generic relation- ship to the [admittedly somewhat modified] example in the DM. Who was responsible for it anyway, Revell Germany or US? > > just wondering Also wondering....... Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 22:18:24 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Revell Fokker D.VII Message-ID: > detailed, but show a double taper in the forward view. Neither the upper or > lower surface are shown as horizontal. Proving once again that > draftsmanship is no substitute for scholarship. All the drawings I have show a single taper *only*, starting at the cabane strut attachment points, and working outboard to the tips. The plastic in the kit is so thi and flexible that it shouldn't be a problem to slit the lower wing half, camber it in the correct direction, jig it up and cement it in place. Should dry out OK.......that's my 10c worth 80) > > I haven't got the kit (its waaay too large), but cutting and reattaching in > the correct orientation should fix the problem. > If that's what you're getting at Eli, I agree. Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 22:35:05 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: New thread Message-ID: Matt, > would start a new thread. You've seen them before, especially on > r.m.s, but here goes anyway. > > What is everybody working on, WW1 wise? My current project is an Albatros DVa from Jasta 4, comprising, in its eventual state, about >30% of the Smer kit. I did get from my fans 80) the non plus ultra of Albatros kits [Eduard], but I was so far ahead with the other that it seemed a pity to interrupt it. Never one to avoid a challenge, the next planned project is an Albatros DI from Jasta 2, basically from the Merlin [!!!] wings and the Glencoe [!!!!] fuselage.......I said it was a challenge 80) BTW, does anybody know if Tom's still have a vac-form Albi in 1/32? I'd like to get hold of it, if it's still procurable. > > For me, getting these three done will be miracle enough. Right! One miracle at a time is enough [see above]. Or......"Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof"[Mat. 6:34]80) I have > thought about doing some two seater - probably German - but I'm still > uncertain. Maybe Pegasus' LVG C.VI? Have you thought about the Airfix Bristol F2b......or the RE 8? .......[snicker!] Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 22:54:17 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: New thread Message-ID: Mike, > Hannoveranner Cl-III and plan to start on an Aurora D-Va. My first real If we're talking about the same Aurora DV/a, you'll find it, I regret, mostly DIII, except for the fuselage. I'm up to my ears in it at the moment. It's a *lot* of work...... but then, you only get out of it what you put into it; that's what modelling's all about, n'est-ce pas? Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 22:48:00 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: New thread Message-ID: > On the same trip I got some other stuff with the requisite > number of wings: Hawker Fury,* Gloster Gladiator* also by > Life-Like, And a *very* nice kit it is,too. As is their Bulldog. And while we're on the subject, or if you like, off the subject: I bought the Gladiator to make up as one of 3 Squadron's {RAAF} in North Africa, but I'm having a lot of trouble with the colour-scheme: the best I can come up with at the moment, official promulgations and [some very indifferent] photos notwithstanding, is topside spinach-and-mud [dark green/ dark earth for the unenlightened 80)], underside black/white. My preference would be spinach-and-mud over Sky-type S. Anyone help? Shane? Anybody? > (with piles of Eduard and DML stuff to get to someday) Latterly the latter, but not the former 80)......plus Smer, Glencoe, Tom's, Monogram, Testor's/Hawk [yuk-o!]......und so weiter, und so fort 80)..... Better be a loooong winter down here.....80) Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 10:22:32 -0400 From: Bultaco13@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Prop rotation on Bristol fighters? Message-ID: <960703102230_347579423@emout16.mail.aol.com> Regarding rotation on Spads, I have it on good authority (James Norman Hall of Mutiny on the Bounty fame ) that 220hp Spads had a gear reduction that caused anti-clockwise rotation of the prop. This feature was not very poular with WWI pilots, who were used to the torque steer from the clockwise rotation. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 07:35:48 +0000 From: mrandall@INNOVA.WA.COM (David M. Randall) To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker factory finish Message-ID: <199607031440.AA27661@nwnexus.wa.com> > Just as a point of interest: what evidence do we have to the effect >that the original fabric was light blue? According to Windsock, the fabric was not light blue, but there was a blue paint applied to the entire wing and fuselage of some Dr1's. The number that were done this way is pretty small, under 5? There were blue underwing and underfuselage colorings (dope, paint?) on many factory finishes, but this was usually not over the whole plane, as in a few examples. +-------------------------+ | David M Randall | | MIS Manager | | Innova Corporation | | Seattle Washington | | mrandall@innova.wa.com | | dave_randall@msn.com | +-------------------------+ ** The views expressed in my email are mine, not Innova's. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jul 96 07:56:51 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re: French color matches Message-ID: <9606038364.AA836405883@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> Clear Doped Linen 4B3: Polly S Clear Doped Linen 4A3 (#500302) is maybe a tad "creamier" What do you all think of Floquil Military Classics "Butternut" to be used for Clear Doped Linen? That's what I've used before with okay results after weathering. I would just as soon use all dangerous chemicals rather than mix and match. --Stephen Tontoni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 10:36:01 -0500 From: Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) To: wwi Subject: Re: Fotocut 1/48 stitching & the Pup Message-ID: <1996Jul03.083228.1155.396686@uprr-internet.notes.up.com> I received yesterday from Rosemont one package of Fotocut's 1/48 stitching, I wanted to use this on the side of my Eduard Pup to denote the fabric inspection panel that runs the length of the fuselage - the 1/48 stitching is large enought that I could use it on the 1/28th scale Sopwith Camel. I am planning on returning the package directly to Fotocut and asking for a smaller size does anyone on the list have a good recommendation as what they may have used it the past would 1/72 stitching be closer for this project? Charlie Duckworth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 18:31:40 -0400 From: u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu To: wwi Subject: Polly Scale colors Message-ID: <199607032231.SAA15094@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Thanks, Matt, for the list of color matches. I thought, as I am starting from scratch and, having to do everything by mail order with no way of actually seeing the paints before I buy them, that I would just call Rosemont and ask them to send all their WWI French & American colors, if they would be willing to do that. And they were-- apparently about a dozen colors in all, though I don't know yet what they are-- except that they include an aluminum-dope. Their new WWI colors, by the way, are: #505035 GERMAN MAUVE (new color mix) #50538 FOKKER & FRENCH DARK GREEN #505041 FRENCH CHESTNUT BROWN #505370 OLIVE DRAB (this is a close match for late war British PC-10) They are switching all their Polly Scale paints over to new Polly Scale colors (a new water-base formula) and have a long list of what replaces what. Everything $1.79 a bottle. --Bradley Omanson <---- End Forwarded Message ----> <---- End Forwarded Message ----> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 09:06:28 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Fokker factory finish Message-ID: David, > According to Windsock, the fabric was not light blue, but there was a > blue paint applied to the entire wing and fuselage of some Dr1's. The > number that were done this way is pretty small, under 5? There were > blue underwing and underfuselage colorings (dope, paint?) on many > factory finishes, but this was usually not over the whole plane, as > in a few examples. Yes, that was my thinking, too. The olive over blue scheme seemed to crop up a bit thought, although my impression was that, as you say, the numbers were quite small. Thanks, Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 1996 16:32:45 -0700 From: "Guy Fogel" To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker factory finish Message-ID: So... I think I'm safe in assuming that Lothar's Triplane 454/17 would have the regular fabric color under the olive streaking? Thanks! Guy Fogel ------------------------------ Date: 7/3/96 4:11 PM To: Guy Fogel From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu David, > According to Windsock, the fabric was not light blue, but there was a > blue paint applied to the entire wing and fuselage of some Dr1's. The > number that were done this way is pretty small, under 5? There were > blue underwing and underfuselage colorings (dope, paint?) on many > factory finishes, but this was usually not over the whole plane, as > in a few examples. Yes, that was my thinking, too. The olive over blue scheme seemed to crop up a bit thought, although my impression was that, as you say, the numbers were quite small. Thanks, Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 20:07:53 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Fokker factory finish Message-ID: <199607040307.AA05876@ednet1.orednet.org> Guy Fogel wrote: >So... >I think I'm safe in assuming that Lothar's Triplane 454/17 would have the >regular fabric color under the olive streaking? >Thanks! >Guy Fogel While it seldom pays to get too dogmatic about WW1 colors, olive over natural fabric would be the general consensus - that's how I'd do it if I were building it. It would avoid undue notice by the color police, if nothing else. :-) Cheers, Bill -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 23:24:07 -0400 From: lfendy@firstsaga.com To: wwi Subject: Quality of Workmanship Message-ID: <199607040324.XAA16219@pease1.sr.unh.edu> I've notice a couple of messages lately from modelers lamenting the fact that their models pale in comparison to other modelers. I feel the same way at times but part of what you perceive is due to the fact you built it! We (most everybody) tend to be overcritical of our own work because we see every little flaw or mistake that is evident to our eyes. I've built models off and on for years and they were mostly seen by my immediate family, and except for my grown son, they wouldn't know a Dr1 from an ME1..(oops). A couple of years ago, at my sons insistance, I entered a local open IPMS contest and managed to take 3rd place with a DML Dr.1. Of course it was nice to win but more satisfying was hearing other modelers talk about my entry. Compliments about the painted markings (actually they were decals) and the laminated prop paint job stood out because that was the areas I thought suffered the most in appearance. This is still a fun and relaxing hobby (well...most of the time.) enjoy the models you build and give yourself more credit! Len _ BACKUP!!!! Where's there reverse key??????? QWicKeSST - The ultimate database QWK reader, and NO limits. #$678803 Special Compile: 1.032B (Beta) >> Slipstream Jet - The QWK solution for Usenets #$678803 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 1996 21:17:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Erik Pilawskii To: ww1 mailer Subject: oh no, ailerons!... Message-ID: Greetings All, So just when I thought all was 'im ordnung'.... I've just been reading Alex Imrie's utterly delightful (and superlative?) _The Fokker Triplane_. To this point, I have always been of the school of thought that Stappenhorst's Fokker Dr.I 144/17's asymmetrical ailerons were a one-off; a field repair expedient. HOWEVER, on pp.32 and 33 we see photos of what are said to be Dr.Is no.s 146/17 (definite) and 145/17 (purported). Both have asymmetrical ailerons, both in the same manner as 144/17 (larger port)! Then, we read from Imrie "...[re: 146/17] It was one of a number of triplanes fitted with asymmetrical ailerons in, it is thought, an attempt to improve manoeuverability in the rolling plane." (!) Could this be so??!?? A *number* of Dr.Is in this condition!? *Whew*! Thus, my real question: since the publishing date of the book is rather recent (1992), does this reflect the current 'best consensus' on the matter? Or has Imrie been superseded (is that even possible?!)? Have I been living in the dark on this one? Any thoughts? Bill? [Boy, will I have to take back a bunch of stuff about Ravell...!] Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "Look-- if I went 'round, sayin' I was an Emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!..." .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 00:03:56 PST From: gregrydquist@juno.com (Gregory N Rydquist) To: wwi Cc: wwi Subject: Re: New thread Message-ID: <19960704.000358.2167.0.GregRydquist@juno.com> >meba@cso.com inquired >>What is everybody working on, WW1 wise? I'm trying to finish a Hasegawa 1/8 Sopwith Camel. What's next? You mean I'm not just supposed to buy them, but Build them TOO? I've been tempted to build them more or less chronologically, so that puts the LifeLike 1911 Boxkite first...but then there's all that rigging... (any body seen the 1911 Avro Triplane by Lifelike, 1/48, of course?). Then there's the Eduard E-III or Morane Saulnier Type N,... but I've never done a resin kit. And that brings us to the Nieuport 11 and/or 17. I'll have to do one of them to serve as inspiration for the 80% Nieuport ultralight I'ma fixin' ta build. After completing the Hasegawa Fokker Dr.l, I figured that after spending that much time and effort in assembling just about everything that went into a full size plane, that I might as well build a just about full size plane. And then there's the Gotha that everybody trounced on when I asked for suggestions. Greg Rydquist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 03:27:25 -0400 From: "S.M. Head" To: wwi Subject: Re: New thread Message-ID: <9607040224.aa18286@mail.iapc.net> Greg wrote ... (any body seen the 1911 Avro Triplane by Lifelike, 1/48, of >course?). I've got one, it's collecting dust. Will build it someday, but that rigging!!??! The sponsor of my web page has one for sale if you want one (along with other Lifelike kits of the same era, Aurora stuff too). Check out the Sponsor section at http://web-hou.iapc.net/~smh if you are interested. Happy Modeling! Scott M. Head IPMS/USA #32841 IPMS Houston Scale Model Forum http://web-hou.iapc.net/~smh Win95=Mac'87 ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 00:36:27 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: oh no, ailerons!... Message-ID: <199607040736.AA29447@ednet1.orednet.org> Eric wrote: > Greetings All, > > So just when I thought all was 'im ordnung'.... If you're looking for that, go research Bf-109's - now those are almost all 'im ordung'! P-51's, now those are down pat! > I've just been reading Alex Imrie's utterly delightful (and superlative?) >_The Fokker Triplane_. To this point, I have always been of the school of >thought that Stappenhorst's Fokker Dr.I 144/17's asymmetrical ailerons >were a one-off; a field repair expedient. > HOWEVER, on pp.32 and 33 we see photos of what are said to be Dr.Is no.s >146/17 (definite) and 145/17 (purported). Both have asymmetrical ailerons, >both in the same manner as 144/17 (larger port)! Then, we read from Imrie >"...[re: 146/17] It was one of a number of triplanes fitted with >asymmetrical ailerons in, it is thought, an attempt to improve >manoeuverability in the rolling plane." (!) > Could this be so??!?? A *number* of Dr.Is in this condition!? *Whew*! >Thus, my real question: since the publishing date of the book is rather >recent (1992), does this reflect the current 'best consensus' on the >matter? Or has Imrie been superseded (is that even possible?!)? Have I >been living in the dark on this one? > Any thoughts? Bill? Ah, you've got me at a disadvantage as I've been looking for Imrie's book for about two years and am still searching. Still, while Imrie is worthy of respect, he is not infallible. But what do the photos actually show? If they clearly show two triplanes with asymmetrical ailerons and both show the same asymmetry (larger aileron to the port side) then I think we've got some serious reappraising to do. If that is what the photos clearly show, then the replacement aileron theory may not be completely dead but it is certainly in intensive care. Because the starboard aileron on the Stappenhorst triplane is so -clearly- a replacement part, the 'replacement' theory always made the most sense to me. But, if we've got photos of two more tripes with the same arrangement clearly present and no evidence that either aileron is a replacement part, then I'd suggest some rethinking of the entire question is in order. But, the bottom line with me is, "What do the photographs show?" Would ya' like to sell be your copy of Imrie's book? :-) How 'bout just send me photo copies of the relevant photos? Cheers, Bill -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government." ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 179 *********************