WWI Digest 169 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Lafayette Escadrille by "Matt Bittner" 2) Re: (Fwd) 37668 by "Matt Bittner" 3) Re: Sources for fine wire by Robert Johnson 4) Re: Naval lozenge in 1/48th by Robert Johnson 5) Re[2]: Naval lozenge in 1/48th by SHUSTAD@email.usps.gov 6) Re: Escadrille Lafayette by Robert Johnson 7) Re[2]: Seminar by SHUSTAD@email.usps.gov 8) USAFM by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 9) Re: Salmson 2a2 kits by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 10) Aeroclub FE2B by Charles Stephanian 11) Re: Aeroclub FE2B by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 12) More Salmson 2A2 by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 13) Re: Escadrille Lafayette by u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu 14) Re: Sources for fine wire by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 15) Re: Escadrille Lafayette by Robert Johnson 16) Re: Escadrille Lafayette by "Matt Bittner" 17) Re: Escadrille Lafayette by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 18) Aeroclub FE2B by mnelson@compusmart.ab.ca (Mark K. Nelson) 19) Re: Naval lozenge in 1/48th by "Stuart L. Malone" 20) Re: Naval lozenge in 1/48th by Robert Johnson 21) Re: Re[2]: Naval lozenge in 1/48th by "Stuart L. Malone" 22) Re: Lafayette Escadrille by u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu 23) Re: Aeroclub FE2B by Alberto Rada 24) Re: Aeroclub FE2B by Alberto Rada 25) Re: Salmson 2a2 kits by gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer) 26) Re: Lafayette Escadrille by Alberto Rada 27) RE: Salmson 2a2 kits by SDW@qld.mim.com.au 28) Re:Seminar by gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 08:12:09 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Lafayette Escadrille Message-ID: <199606240814.IAA10381@cso.com> On 23 Jun 96 at 3:28, Bill Shatzer typed diligantly: > Eldon/Fujimi/etc Nieuport 17 kits are usable and fixable and the > Merlin Nieuport 11 is one of Merlin's better kits. So that might ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ;-) Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 08:08:19 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: (Fwd) 37668 Message-ID: <199606240810.IAA10183@cso.com> On 23 Jun 96 at 12:47, GRBroman@aol.com typed diligantly: > Matt, I dont know if I mentioned this before but I am writing a > book on the FT17/M1917. I have a copy of the manual which I used > to get the interior photos. I also have detail photos from > surviving examples as well as in action photos. Please understand > that I cannot provide copies to interested parties at this time, > but the manuscript is due to the publishers in August and should be > on the streets by the end of 96 or early 97. Those of you who have > seen the article I wrote on the Mark VIII in Museum Ordnance or my > last book on the (gasp) non-period Abrams will have an idea of the > stuff that will be in this book. Glen Well, I guess I'll just have to wait on building the FT.17 until next year some time. Gee, and I don't have anything else on my bench...;-) Thanks, Glen. Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 08:58:07 +0000 From: Robert Johnson To: wwi Subject: Re: Sources for fine wire Message-ID: <9606240850.aa07856@scosysv.speechsys.com> Mike Muth writes: "... a distinctive uniform was designed and approved by > the Kaiser but it was not introduced, and NO particular protective clothing > was officially approved." I believe that, for much of the war, flying officers supplied their own flight clothing. They bought it from the same military outfitters that supplied their uniforms and sidearms or from specialist suppliers of motor racing clothing. Women's silk stockings were favorites for flying helmets/helmet liners. Late in the war, special flight suits became part of the squadron equipment in British units and were drawn from stores like charts or guns. Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:02:41 +0000 From: Robert Johnson To: wwi Subject: Re: Naval lozenge in 1/48th Message-ID: <9606240854.aa07886@scosysv.speechsys.com> Stuart L. Malone writes: There was quite a contingency of landbased naval squadrons that > utilized Albatros DIIIs quite heavily, and Albatros DVas to a lesser > extent. I have also heard rumors that some of the lesser fighters were > also used (i.e. Pfalz DIII/DIIIa, Roland DVIb, etc.) but these are > unsubstantiated. ... The only problem is ... the landbased naval > fighters used a polygonal lozenge as per army aircraft, but different > colors. I'm no expert, but I'm sceptical. I have seen hexagonal naval comouflage only on water-based aircraft. It has always been my understanding that the land-based Marine Feld Jastas used army-type aircraft with standard, army-type camouflage drawn from army production. The naval field squadrons operated over the same terrain and in the same tactical role as army units. So why would they have a different camouflage? Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:20:57 -0400 From: SHUSTAD@email.usps.gov To: "(u)wwi" Subject: Re[2]: Naval lozenge in 1/48th Message-ID: <0033000001320526000002*@MHS> On the pre-printed fabric for German Naval 'LAND BASED' aircraft; One of our poster's queried: "The only problem is, from my research, the landbased naval fighters used a polygonal lozenge as per army aircraft, but different colors. Anyone have facts to verify or disprove this ugly rumor?" An ugly rumor indeed! - and NOT true. This is like the proverbial story of handing a person a book and asking them to prove that the book has not been opened in the last 24 hours - one cannot prove a negative. :^) The only proof that the colors on naval land based aircraft's pre-printed 'lozenge' fabric were no different than their army air service cousins is an ENTIRE lack of; photographic, relic (original fabric pieces), written accounts, and/or verbal witness statements to the contrary! What sources, "...from my research...", are you refering to? You'vr got me curious now, and on a MONDAY no less! ;^). Steve H. (The Mad Norseman!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:20:06 +0000 From: Robert Johnson To: wwi Subject: Re: Escadrille Lafayette Message-ID: <9606240912.aa08011@scosysv.speechsys.com> Bradley Omanson writes: I have a scanner and color printer and could fairly > easily copy squadron markings from photos and reduce them to scale, but > ... I don't suppose decal sheets would run through a paint-jet printer very well. > I expect the colors would smear on any sort of mylar surface. But I wonder > if anyone has experimented with some sort of thin linen-based paper that could > then be doped onto a fuselage? ... So my question is, if one has a good scanner > and paint-jet printer, is it possible somehow to manufacture one's own > squadron markings? I haven't tried all the products mentioned by some of the other respondents (I will), but I have experimented alot with making markings from freehand computer drawings. Results are very iffy. The inkjet ink simply will not adhere to normal, bare decal film (I used Microscale and another brand I don't remember). The various liquid decal films were no help either. A thin, rough coat of clear flat lacquer (not acrylic) worked fairly well, but the ink faded quickly. Nevertheless, I used this to make squadron insignia for my grandfather's P-12B with fair results by printing only black outlines and coloring them in by hand. The new color laser printers might be a good alternative, but, in my experience, you have to put up with odd half-tone patterns and indifferent color fidelity. If the decal paper is actually laser-safe (and if you can convince a print shop of the fact), a color copier might be a better solution. Print the art to paper and then copy it onto decal film. You still have to get them to fiddle with the color balance to get a good effect, but it can be done. Be aware that this is expensive (ca. $2 per 8.5 x 11 sheet including mistakes). Printing on paper works (the colors don't run). But the thickness of even the thinnest papers can be a problem. Thin papers are also translucent, usually. Try rice paper (available in art stores)--it is opaque even when quite thin. In my experiemnts, I have used thinnned white glue and acrylic clear coat as adhesives. Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:28:11 -0400 From: SHUSTAD@email.usps.gov To: "(u)wwi" Subject: Re[2]: Seminar Message-ID: <0033000001320566000002*@MHS> I got a chance to meet some of the guyson this list. It was nice to put faces to names. Sorry I couldn't do more than talk to Brian briefly at NASM...maybe next time you can explain why 1/72 is so much better ;-). Mike Muth (Some truths are self evident - and therefore require no explaination). :-) Steve H. (The Mad Norseman!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:58:32 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: USAFM Message-ID: >On 21 Jun 96 at 20:25, Carlos Valdes typed diligantly: > >> Finally, is everyone aware of the WWI fly-in that will take place >> July 20-21 at the Air Force Museum in Dayton? Plenty of planes and >> vendors will be there--apparently more than at Aerodrome in >> Alabama, which was great in both '92 and '94. I can hardly wait to >> get to Ohio. . To which Matt replied: >While there, be sure to check out the *beautiful* Caproni and >Halberstadt. > There are now two new WW I additions to the USAFM collections, presently on display in the Medal of Honor gallery, a SPAD XIII finished in overall olive drab and a "new" Fokker D-VII. The latter a/c is an exacting replica build in Texas earlier this year. It utilizes guns, Mercedes engine and instruments from the USAFM collections, the rest is new build. It represents an OAW-built machine, therefore its covering with 5-color lozenge replica fabric from Germany is accurate. I was just there last week and my only complaint was that the rib tapes on the Fokker (yes they are even on the ailerons) are a very bright, almost silver color. I think it distracts greatly from the appearance of the lozenge. I wonder if the builders were looking at photos of originals and wondered why the rib tapes looked so light ? The orthochromatic film of the time would make blue rib tapes look "light". I wonder if this effect swayed someone's judgement ? The Fokker is a splendid replica, down to the stenciling, weight table and datum line on the fuselage. It is also beautifully marked in Jasta 35 markings. For those attending next month's gathering, take your camera and a very powerful flash. The lights in the gallery tend to make everything look green on your color film. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 10:10:28 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Salmson 2a2 kits Message-ID: >On 23 Jun 96 at 21:19, SDW@qld.mim.com.au typed diligantly: > >> maybe I'm a sucker for punishment, but I've just seen an auction >> catalogue entry for a >> >> 1/48 Salmson 2a2 MERLIN >> >> Strikes me as strange since the Merlin beasties I have struggled with (or >> been regaled about) are 1:72 >> >> Does anyone know anything abiout this kit? Or did my good friend at >> Brisbane Scale Modellers blow it when he prepared the catalogue and list >> a 1:72 kit as 1:48 ?? And Matt replied: >I *think* this is in 1/48th. I know Merlin did a terrible Albatros >D.II in 1/48th, so I'm assuming - as well as going off of a fading >memory - that the Brequet is in 1/48th. > Yes, there were two 1/48 releases from Merlin models in the late 1980's (around 1989, I think), the Albatros D-II and the Salmson 2A2. Both kits are molded in grey, soft plastic and have a number of metal parts included. Both kits also have basic decal sets. There was a pictoral in an old Windsock, proving that the Albatros could be made up into a really nice model, I recall that the builder did have to put a lot of effort into it, but then isn't that what modeling can be about at times. When compared with the Albatros, the Salmson is a much more crude effort. The fuselage on mine is pretty thick and a little warped, its had me wondering how I was going to get the two halves together. I've not ever held the pieces up against any plans, so I can't attest to the overall accuracy of this kit. Then again, does anyone have a reference to plans, in any scale, for this aircraft ? So Shane, to answer your initial inquiry, no your list compiler did not make a mistake. Let us know how much this one goes for at auction. There can't be many of these kits around. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:31:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Stephanian To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Aeroclub FE2B Message-ID: Perhaps I missed this discussion...but could I get some comments on the Aeroclub 1/48 FE2B kit? You know the standard review stuff...accuracy, quality of parts, etc. Thanks! Charles Stephanian csteph@itsa.ucsf.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 09:44:20 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re: Aeroclub FE2B Message-ID: <9605248356.AA835634764@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> Perhaps I missed this discussion...but could I get some comments on the Aeroclub 1/48 FE2B kit? You know the standard review stuff...accuracy, quality of parts, etc. Me too. I am considering purchasing that one and would like to get opinions by the Gurus of the Great War of the BE2B (Aeroclub kit, not the aircraft itself) Many thanks. ---Stephen Tontoni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:07:46 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: More Salmson 2A2 Message-ID: To follow up on my earlier post, I checked out the Aviation USK web site and their list of CzechMaster resin kits. They list a 1/48 Salmson as available. This was probably what the Merlin kit was based upon. AV Usk also carries Merlin kits, the present listing includes only one 1/48 offering a Roland C-II. I've not seen it, if anyone can comment on this, I'm interested to learn their impressions. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 13:51:51 -0400 From: u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu To: wwi Subject: Re: Escadrille Lafayette Message-ID: <199606241751.NAA23151@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Thanks once more to everyone for all the information. Sounds like I might be able to put together the entire squadron. I called Squadron-- they don't carry the Revell Nieuport 17, and they have never heard of Merlin. They do, however, carry the Airfix SPAD VII (on sale through June for $3.99-- must be a humdinger!) Any suggestions where I might be able to find either Nieuport? And does anyone have a phone number for Americal-Gryphon? I'm going to work with the pre-printed A-G decal sheets for now, but will eventually experiment with making my own decals from the blank sheets. I have a pretty sophisticated graphics program -- Picture Publisher -- which enables you to do a lot of subtle line & color adjustment, but I'm still at the novice stage with it. My paint-jet printer is an Epson Stylus Color II-- has anyone tried one of these with the blank decal sheets? My biggest problem with it and PicPubl so far is that the color on the screen and the color printed are rather dissimilar-- no doubt a calibration problem. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 11:03:06 -0700 From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: Sources for fine wire Message-ID: <199606241803.LAA14433@bing.ncw.net> On 06/23, Mike Muth wrote: >I always wondered why Christopher Campbell put drawings of uniforms in his >book Aces & Aircraft of WWI ! On page 34 there is a color drawing of >Gottfried Banfield. The helmet is medium brown. The rest of his gear simply >looks like a typical navy pea jacket in blue-black.(Sort of like the Chicago >Bears uniforms in color) >On page 86, there is a color drawing of Godwin Brumowski in a 3/4 length >brown leather coat. There is lots of stuff about the color of badges, etc. >he does comment that: " a distinctive uniform was designed and approved by >the Kaiser but it was not introduced, and NO particular protective clothing >was officially approved." >So, I guess leather is leather, as suggested by Bill. >Hope this helps. >Mike Muth Certainly does! The Atlee figures are done up in flight suits, as opposed to jackets/coats, but as long as it looks like leather, sounds like I'll be in good shape. Thanks again. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:23:12 +0000 From: Robert Johnson To: wwi Subject: Re: Escadrille Lafayette Message-ID: <9606241215.aa09445@scosysv.speechsys.com> < u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> writes: >My biggest problem with it [an Epson inkjet printer] and > PicPubl so far is that the color on the screen and the color >printed are rather dissimilar-- no doubt a calibration problem. This is indeed a calibration problem. Generally, you have to have a printer driver that has a calibration setting for your monitor. If your monitor is not listed in the printer setup dialog, experiment with those that are to find something that works. I find that mismatches usually involve a few colors. so you can also try redefining these problem colors until Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 13:09:28 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Escadrille Lafayette Message-ID: <199606241311.NAA07629@cso.com> On 24 Jun 96 at 13:52, u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu typed diligantly: > Thanks once more to everyone for all the information. Sounds like > I might be able to put together the entire squadron. I called > Squadron-- they don't carry the Revell Nieuport 17, and they have > never heard of Merlin. They do, however, carry the Airfix SPAD > VII (on sale through June for $3.99-- must be a humdinger!) Any > suggestions where I might be able to find either Nieuport? And > does anyone have a phone number for Americal-Gryphon? Finding either one of these will be a test of your resourcefulness. They both have been out of production for a number of years. Shops that specialise in out of production kits could probably help - the only one that comes to mind is APC somewhere in Virginia. Why not try the Rosemont Nie.11? As I can attest, not only would you be better off than the Merlin, but finding the Rosemont is quite easier than trying to find the Merlin kit. The other good thing about going through Rosemont is that they have Le Prieur rockets, which you'll need for Chuck Johnson's machine (which, BTW, it what my Nie.11 will be - if I ever get the durned thing done). You might have to "settle" for the ESCI Nie.17. There are a couple more steps to correct this as compared to the Revell, but it's better than not having a Nie.17 at all. As far as Americal goes, they *only* do postal mail orders, no phone calls. FWIW, there were also a couple of the L.E's planes in the French decal sheet put out by Blue Rider - which also is out of production, unfortunately. You could also find (I believe) two L.E. schemes in the Toycraft Berg kit. Good luck, and between you and Erik I'm going to get my Nie.11 done SOON! ;-) Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 12:20:15 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Escadrille Lafayette Message-ID: u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu wrote: >Thanks once more to everyone for all the information. Sounds like I might be >able to put together the entire squadron. I called Squadron-- they don't >carry >the Revell Nieuport 17, and they have never heard of Merlin. I don't know about this, I thought that Squadron tried at one point several years ago to distribute Merlin's kits. Try Aviation USK in Usk, Washington (URL http://www.spokane.net/cgi-bin/tame/models/door.tam?cart=96D09fsf.gpu&uu=109 60) They do Handle Merlin kits but the Nieuport N.11 is long out of production, you'll have to find this from a collector or such as that. > They do, however, >carry the Airfix SPAD VII (on sale through June for $3.99-- must be a >humdinger!) I'm not sure how much of a bargan this is since this kit was originally released almost 30 years ago at US$0.75. > Any suggestions where I might be able to find either Nieuport? And >does anyone have a phone number for Americal-Gryphon? > Americal/Gryphon only takes orders through the mail: Americal/Gryphon 4373 Varsity Lane Houston TX 77004-6617 Check or money order required, they don't take credit cards. >I'm going to work with the pre-printed A-G decal sheets for now, but will >eventually experiment with making my own decals from the blank sheets. I >have a >pretty sophisticated graphics program -- Picture Publisher -- which >enables you >to do a lot of subtle line & color adjustment, but I'm still at the novice >stage with it. My paint-jet printer is an Epson Stylus Color II-- has anyone >tried one of these with the blank decal sheets? My biggest problem with >it and >PicPubl so far is that the color on the screen and the color printed are >rather >dissimilar-- no doubt a calibration problem. Good luck with your decal making. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 13:24:49 -0600 From: mnelson@compusmart.ab.ca (Mark K. Nelson) To: wwi Subject: Aeroclub FE2B Message-ID: . . .In Review Aeroclub K417 R.A.F. FE.2b Unfortunately I don't have an independant set of 1/48 plans handy at the moment, but I recall R.Rimell saying that it scaled out perfect or near-perfect in Windsock 11/3. The kit is typical multi-media with plastic, cast metal, and brass rod construction. The plastic parts are molded in tan and include the wings, fuselage & stabilizers. The wings are molded in a total of six parts (seperate center sections & outer panels.) The outer panels have tongues which fit into recesses in the underside of the center sections - these tongues need some work to fit neatly & then a serious putty job to hide - the kits only real shortcoming. The fuselage is molded in left & right halves with seperate bulkeads, floor & engine mount. The main wheels are also plastic. The surface detail is nicely understated & the cockpit interior features (somewhat soft looking) wood framing. The cast parts are very numerous, and include the engine, airscrew, radiator, instrument panel, nosewheel,tailskid, interplane & tail struts (not the booms though), seats, gravity tank, standard 1915 Lewis gun, Mk.II Lewis (RFC pattern - these guns are numbered 1 & 13 in the Lewis Gun mini datafile), control sticks, rudder pedals, and a variety of other small odds and ends type fittings. Some of the castings need some serious flash clean up. The tail booms themselves are made of brass rod via a Vac-formed assembly jig. This jig features grooves for the booms & cast struts with glue-safe recesses at the joints. Markings are provided for "The Scotch Express" & "Zanzibar No1". The decals have good register. The Instructions are primarily step-by step text, although a 1/48 3-view is provided as are an exploded fuselage drawing, and oblique views of the landing gear and tail end of the boom structure. The landing gear has me worried! Obviously the lads at the R.A.F. din't have modellers in mind when they came up whith that mass of struts. All-in-all a really good kit of an otherwise nearly forgotten aircraft. _____________________________________________________________________ Mark (An Employee at Kites & Other Delights in West Edmonton Mall) ------------------------ mnelson@compusmart.ab.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 18:35:54 -0500 From: "Stuart L. Malone" To: wwi Subject: Re: Naval lozenge in 1/48th Message-ID: <31CF265A.7562@sound.net> Robert Johnson wrote: > I'm no expert, but I'm sceptical. I have seen hexagonal naval > comouflage only on water-based aircraft. It has always been my > understanding that the land-based Marine Feld Jastas used army-type > aircraft with standard, army-type camouflage drawn from army > production. The naval field squadrons operated over the same terrain > and in the same tactical role as army units. So why would they have a different > camouflage? > Rob, > robj@speechsys.com. You're absolutely correct on operations, but since when have you known any Navy to follow along with the Army. I would suspect since they had to all fly the same birds, they would do something a little different to distinguish themselves from their Army counterparts. If this is the case, I would lean towards tinting the dope slightly, because it's a fact all the lozenged fabric was the same. If I didn't mention it before, this is only a theory. Since we all know how volatile the debate over the exact colors for Army lozenge is, I thought I'd stir things up and add something new to argue over. Anyone have some other theories. or God forbid, proof? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 17:56:13 +0000 From: Robert Johnson To: wwi Subject: Re: Naval lozenge in 1/48th Message-ID: <9606241748.aa11821@scosysv.speechsys.com> Stuart Malone writes: >You're absolutely correct on operations, but since when have you > known any Navy to follow along with the Army. I would suspect since they > had to all fly the same birds, they would do something a little > different to distinguish themselves from their Army counterparts. I remain sceptical. What evidence is there for this special coloration? How would the tinting be done? The argument that navies never follow standards set by armies is specious. Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 19:04:22 -0500 From: "Stuart L. Malone" To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naval lozenge in 1/48th Message-ID: <31CF2D06.3D7C@sound.net> A diligent subscriber posted: > > An ugly rumor indeed! - and NOT true. > This is like the proverbial story of handing a person a book and > asking them to prove that the book has not been opened in the > last 24 hours - one cannot prove a negative. :^) On the contrary, I would assume any one of us has a good, if not vast, collection of books and photographs from the time period. Although grainy, enough comparisons between different subjects, will determine a good approximation of shading differences. Dirt, sunlight, worn fabric, fuel and oil discolorations can be determined from these photographs. Taking these into account, one can prove this negative (or positive) by a direct comparison of similarly 'conditioned' examples. > > The only proof that the colors on naval land based aircraft's > pre-printed 'lozenge' fabric were no different than their army > air service cousins is an ENTIRE lack of; photographic, relic > (original fabric pieces), written accounts, and/or verbal witness > statements to the contrary! I have been working with a very modest library for many years now, and even I can spot the difference (when both are present) in upper and lower surface Army lozenge fabric in a black and white photo, as I am sure can many others. > > What sources, "...from my research...", are you refering to? > You'vr got me curious now, and on a MONDAY no less! ;^). There are 3 friends of mine in Lincoln NE who have been collecting every source of information on the subject of WWI aircraft they can get their hands on. Two of them since the 'boom' of the 60s, and one since his discharge from the service shortly after WWII. They were gracious enough to let me borrow resource material when I needed it. So this conclusion was drawn from staring at many photographs of Albatros DIIIs in both branches of service (since these were the common denominator between the two). I guess it all boils down to a matter of opinion, but it's amazing how much contoversy one can stir up with a few little phrases ;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 20:01:19 -0400 From: u1a00518@wvnvm.wvnet.edu To: wwi Subject: Re: Lafayette Escadrille Message-ID: <199606250001.UAA25293@pease1.sr.unh.edu> A couple of Laf.Esc. items: There's a nice color photo of a Nieuport 17 with Nungesser's markings at To: wwi Subject: Re: Aeroclub FE2B Message-ID: <199606241640.UAA22562@fw.true.net> At 12:31 PM 6/24/96 -0400, you wrote: > >Perhaps I missed this discussion...but could I get some comments on the >Aeroclub 1/48 FE2B kit? You know the standard review stuff...accuracy, >quality of parts, etc. > >Thanks! > >Charles Stephanian >csteph@itsa.ucsf.edu > I bought this kit about as soon as it came out, I enjoyed building it, and two months ago, in our annual show and competition, it won third price in 1/48 propeller driven aircraft, against an horde of Me 109's etc. so what more can I ask. The kit is almost a complete multimedia, only lacking some etched brass to be complete, cockpit, engine mounting plate, wings, tail plane and vertical fin are provided in plastic, struts, Lewis guns in two stiles, oleo legs, axle, elephant ear intakes, radiator, prop, engine, instrument panel and seat in white metal, the booms in brass and markings for two planes, it also provides a vacuform jig for correctly installing the booms and their struts, 1/48 scale drawings and instructions. Its not all that difficult to assemble, all parts are very well molded and mainly free of flash, with maybe the exception of the seat that I found rather thick and heavy and was replaced by a fotocut etched one and the instrument panel that I preferred to scratch build for more realistic outcome, as both cabins, pilot and observer are rather exposed to view, some scratch building has to be done inside for more realistic appearance, Lewis guns are very well done but can benefit by a couple of details from fotocut also you can easily scratch build Mk. II deflector bags for them. Naturally we now come to the eye of the hurricane, RIGGING, you rig this plane you can rig anything, first of all nor the diagrams provided, nor any other reference available at the moment of construction have a complete rigging reference, I imagine Datafile No. 18 would, but it is unfortunately out of print and not due to reprint till one more year, so you have to put all the information together, to prepare your own rigging diagrams, you will also have to scratch build some pulleys for the matter. Now of course once finished it is really impressive, and although it has not the beautiful lines of an Albatross I will say you end up loving it. Only references I was able to gather are Windsock Vol. 11 No. 3, Windsock Vol. 10 No. 6, Special Pusher Features, that although it does not refer directly to the FE.2b it does on the FE2D, close enough, specially for rigging purposes, also some good shots and gun mounts descriptions on Early Aircraft Armament by Harry Woodman. Hope it helps, Saludos Alberto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 21:37:41 +0400 (GMT-4) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Aeroclub FE2B Message-ID: <199606241737.VAA23142@fw.true.net> At 12:44 PM 6/24/96 -0400, you wrote: >Perhaps I missed this discussion...but could I get some comments on the >Aeroclub 1/48 FE2B kit? You know the standard review stuff...accuracy, >quality of parts, etc. > > Me too. I am considering purchasing that one and would like > to get opinions by the Gurus of the Great War of the BE2B > (Aeroclub kit, not the aircraft itself) > > Many thanks. > > ---Stephen Tontoni > > Stephen, I'm not a guru but a humble apprentice, but buy it, you'll really enjoy it. Masochism . . . masochism . . . Saludos Alberto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 18:04:08 -0700 From: gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Salmson 2a2 kits Message-ID: <199606250104.SAA20865@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Hi Shane! You wrote: >maybe I'm a sucker for punishment, but I've just seen an auction >catalogue entry for a 1/48 Salmson 2a2 MERLIN Trust me on this one. I've said it before and I'll say it again. This kit is the WORST WWI 1/48 kit ever made. When it was released there was never any review of it in Windsock. I eagerly ordered one through the mail. It is the most shockingly crude excuse for a model kitted in the last 15 years. The Wings 48 vac-form is the way to go for this bird. It has a huge and splendid decal sheet and the molding, while a bit soft, is not too bad. >Strikes me as strange since the Merlin beasties I have struggled with (or >been regaled about) are 1:72 Strikes me as hideous! Cheers! Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 21:45:11 +0400 (GMT-4) From: Alberto Rada To: wwi Subject: Re: Lafayette Escadrille Message-ID: <199606241745.VAA23188@fw.true.net> At 08:02 PM 6/24/96 -0400, you wrote: >A couple of Laf.Esc. items: There's a nice color photo of a Nieuport 17 with >Nungesser's markings at could you please confirm this site, as it gives me a wrong address message Saludos Alberto ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jun 96 11:15:00 EDT From: SDW@qld.mim.com.au To: wwi%pease1.sr.unh.edu@teksup.mim.com.au Subject: RE: Salmson 2a2 kits Message-ID: <199606250138.LAA24684@mimmon.mim.com.au> Greg, >>maybe I'm a sucker for punishment, but I've just seen an auction >>catalogue entry for a 1/48 Salmson 2a2 MERLIN >Trust me on this one. I've said it before and I'll say it again. >This kit is the WORST WWI 1/48 kit ever made Good. I always wanted to own the WORST _something_ ;-) The reserve is A$2 so I figure the present owner doesn't much value it. I'll bid teh 2 bucks and laugh at anyone who overbids me Shane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 18:10:34 -0700 From: gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer) To: wwi Subject: Re:Seminar Message-ID: <199606250110.SAA00827@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Mike has typed diligently: Snip! It was announced that the A&E network will start off its new season >with a 4 part series on WWI aviation! Yes, hard as it may be to believe, >they not only found enough stuff to fill up 4 hours of TV time (ok, with >commercials maybe only 3 hours) but also decided to lead off their season. >Some of the members had viewed a preview of it and said it sppears to be >quite accurate, with only a few nits to pick. I can't wait. Waay Coool! Do you know the date and time? Cheers! Greg ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 169 *********************