WWI Digest 16 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Merlin Models thread by "Joseph R. Boeke" 2) Escadrille Lafayette by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 3) Re: Escadrille Lafayette by "Matt Bittner" 4) Re: Glenco Pfalz DIII review by Jesse Thorn 5) Re: Merlin vs Sierra: AEG G.IV by Charles Stephanian 6) Re: Glenco Pfalz DIII review by cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) 7) Re: Merlin vs Sierra: AEG G.IV by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 8) Re: Merlin vs Sierra: AEG G.IV by bshatzer@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Bill Shatzer) 9) Re: Merlin vs Sierra: AEG G.IV by "Matt Bittner" 10) Baracca's SPAD XIII by modlctzn@pacificrim.net (Mike Franklin) 11) Re: Custom Photoetch & Decals by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 12) Re: Glenco Pfalz DIII review by The Flying Wrench 13) Re: Baracca's SPAD XIII by The Flying Wrench 14) Re: Custom Photoetch & Decals by "Joseph R. Boeke" 15) Revell 1/28 D VII - AARRGGHH!! by gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer ) 16) Re: Baracca's SPAD XIII by bshatzer@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Bill Shatzer) 17) Re: Aurora Fok. D.VII (was WWI Board Game) by Brad Hansen 18) Re: Revell 1/28 D VII - AARRGGHH!! by The Flying Wrench 19) UPDATES 2 (fwd) by aew (Allan Wright) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:20:37 -0500 From: "Joseph R. Boeke" To: wwi Subject: Re: Merlin Models thread Message-ID: <9601291718.AA27287@coral.bucknell.edu> At 10:04 AM 1/29/96 -0500, you wrote: > So, in term of SSW D.I's in 1/72nd, I would go with the Aero Image > (if you can find it), using parts from the Meikraft onto a kitbashed > ESCI Nie.17. Easieast way. Matt, Arrrrgh... don't tell me that, I was just goping to start kitbashing the Revell kit per the "article" you wrote on fixing the Revell/ESCI Nieuports. Well, I guess I will have a go at it anyways. At any rate, I wanted to ask you if I could include that article on my web page. I was planning on taking photos of my D.1 as I build it and using them with the article (and photos of other conversions as I get the time to do them). I will of course, attribute the article to you and I was going to have an e-mail link to your name. Would tha be okay (Allan has told me he would like to link my page to his when I get it done - I will also be include the article I am translating from French on converting the Spad XIII to a SPAD XII & maybe Steve H's remarks on the 1/72 Dr.1s). I also wanted to ask you another question or two, do you know of any color references to Lafayette Escadrille's Nieuports? I'd like to get notes on 3-5 of the machines, for another project I am working on (I suppose I could find info on one of Luffbery's planes without too much of a problem). BTW, I still have your PKwgn & Avia. They are sitting in a box in my study, all packed & ready to go, as soon as I get up the energy to get to the Post Office. I promise to get them in the mail this week. I hope all is well by you, now that the Susquehana has receded, I feel alot better :~) - Joe +==================================+===================================+ | Joseph R. Boeke | The best executive is one who has | | Manager, Prospect Information | the sense enough to pick good men | | Bucknell University | to do what he wants done, and the | | (717) 524-3200 | self-restraint enough to keep | | (717) 524-3610 (fax) | from meddling with them while | | | they do it. | | boeke@bucknell.edu | -- Theodore Roosevelt | +======================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:52:30 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Escadrille Lafayette Message-ID: Joe Boeke writes: > >I also wanted to ask you another question or two, do you know of any color >references to Lafayette Escadrille's Nieuports? I'd like to get notes on >3-5 of the machines, for another project I am working on (I suppose I could >find info on one of Luffbery's planes without too much of a problem). > Check out Americal/Gryphon sheets #65 (1:72), #64 (1:32) or #66 (1:48) for information on Lafayette Escadrille's Nieuports. The information booklet with these sheets also gives references for photos and other information. Some of this is also found in the Windsock Datafile vol. 1 of the Nieuport Fighters. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:55:15 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Escadrille Lafayette Message-ID: <199601291245.MAA11311@cso.com> On 29 Jan 96 at 12:39, Charles Hart typed diligently: > Check out Americal/Gryphon sheets #65 (1:72), #64 (1:32) or #66 (1:48) > for information on Lafayette Escadrille's Nieuports. The information > booklet with these sheets also gives references for photos and other > information. Some of this is also found in the Windsock Datafile vol. 1 of > the Nieuport Fighters. Just emailed this to Joe as well. The best all around reference to the colors of the Lafayette. Ditto on the Windsock, although I'll have to check, but I think there might be info on a Lafayette Nie.27 in Vol.2. I have two books that deal with (1) the bio's of the flyers and (2) a unit history. Unfortunately, the titles escape me, and they don't have much in terms of color info. (2) is great reading, though. Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:02:39 -0500 (EST) From: Jesse Thorn To: wwi Subject: Re: Glenco Pfalz DIII review Message-ID: Thanks for a first look at this kit. I got one the other day and have a question about it. It seems that the kit more closely represents a D.III and not the later D.IIIa. It has D.III lower wings and tailplane. What are the main differences between the two variants? If this kit is indeed a D.III it seems that half of the markings are bogus - and were applied to the later D.IIIa aircraft. What's the deal here folks? As mentioned - not a bad piece o' plastic for only $10. --Jesse All right, what FST skit is this from: "I couldn't stand on my head to give you a better deal. That's Duke of Madness Motors..."? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:08:54 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Stephanian To: wwi Subject: Re: Merlin vs Sierra: AEG G.IV Message-ID: Reading this post, and all the others regarding Merlin, and my own experience with Merlin kits (especially recent ones).....one question? How do they stay in business? Are there enough people left who haven't bought one of their kits yet...are some people gluttons for punishment... how can a kit maker's kits keep getting worse instead of improving... Maybe it's the magic spell the name casts over the unsuspecting buyer?? Charles Stephanian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 13:28:47 EST From: cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) To: wwi Subject: Re: Glenco Pfalz DIII review Message-ID: <199601291828.OAA16056@conted.swann.gatech.edu> Jesse, Glenco is supposed to release a D.IIIa verison of this kit also. Without looking at the appropriate datafiles, here are the main differences between the two subtypes: 1. The D.IIIa had a larger tailplane. 2. Most D.IIIa's had rounded wingtips on the lower mainplanes. 3. The interplane and cabane strut ends on most D.IIIa's were shaped differently than on the D.III's. 4. The main difference was that the D.III's guns were buried beneath the top decking and thus couldn't be unjammed in flight, while the D.III's were conventionally exposed and within reach of the pilot. I'm not sure as to the accuracy of the color schemes and markings included in the D.III--I'll have to check mmy limited sources and see what I have by way of marking information. Is there anyone out there with a good list of Pfalz color sources? Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:46:57 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Merlin vs Sierra: AEG G.IV Message-ID: Charles Stephanian types: >Reading this post, and all the others regarding Merlin, and my own >experience with Merlin kits (especially recent ones).....one question? >How do they stay in business? Are there enough people left who haven't >bought one of their kits yet...are some people gluttons for punishment... >how can a kit maker's kits keep getting worse instead of improving... > >Maybe it's the magic spell the name casts over the unsuspecting buyer?? As a long time follower of the saga of Merlin Models, I am frankly amazed that he is still in business. Much of the problem with this concern has been a lack of sufficient cash to keep the operation running. I used to order kits directly from Merlin, whose address seemed to change on a monthly basis. Perhaps this is why he had no money, he kept moving all of the time. It has been about 5 years since I bought anything directly and I don't even have this month's address for them (does anyone out there have it ??). Certainly the quality of the kits has varied enormously over time, usually depending on where the masters for the kits came from, but there have been a few items that are genuinely worth seeking out, the H-B W.20 and Nieuport 27 come to mind. Still it is unfortunate that quality has declined so much with time. The subjects picked by Merlin certainly had a lot of potential. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:43:47 -0800 From: bshatzer@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Merlin vs Sierra: AEG G.IV Message-ID: <199601291843.AA16801@ednet1.osl.or.gov> > > > >Reading this post, and all the others regarding Merlin, and my own >experience with Merlin kits (especially recent ones).....one question? >How do they stay in business? Are there enough people left who haven't >bought one of their kits yet...are some people gluttons for punishment... >how can a kit maker's kits keep getting worse instead of improving... > >Maybe it's the magic spell the name casts over the unsuspecting buyer?? > >Charles Stephanian > Originally, they did kits of a/c not available from any other source or available only in hard-to-get limited run male molded vacs of even lesser quality than Merlin's. Unfortunately, their quality has not improved (or even declined) while other manufacturers are cranking out 'obscure' WW1 aircraft and Merlin is no longer the 'only game in town'. Yet, to be fair, Pegasus has had its share of 'dogs' as well (-three- tries on the SS D.III and they -still- ain't got it right!) and, to my mind at least, the Meikraft kits are generally below Merlin's in quality. And Merlin still does some stuff that no one else has done or is doing. And the Merlin kits -are- generally buildable and, with work, do make convincing looking aircraft - perhaps not spot on in accuracy and certainly no Merlin kit is a 'box shaker' but they're 'close enough' for most modelers. Compared to the Eduards or even the better Pegasus kits, the Merlins are dogs yet because Merlin usually kits aircraft no one else does in injection moldings, often there is no Eduard or Pegasus to compare 'em to. And even when there is a 'better' vac kit out there, vac kits ain't always easy to find. I mean, you can always find 'a' vac kit but if you're specifically looking for a 'Hansastadt WD-40', tracking down the no longer in production vac form from a production run of probably less than 1,000 ain't easy. Even your prototypical 'Better Stocked Hobby Shop' tends to have a real spotty vac form assortment. Finally, some folks are just plain scared of vacs and prefer an inferior injection kit to the best vac form in the world. And, for my part, I must admit that my ratio of vacs started to vacs finished is considerably less than my completion ratio for injection kits. My $1.45 ($.02 adjusted for inflation) Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - "You can crush a man with journalism." William Randolph Hearst ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:11:55 -0600 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Merlin vs Sierra: AEG G.IV Message-ID: <199601291401.OAA12652@cso.com> On 29 Jan 96 at 13:45, Bill Shatzer typed diligently: > Unfortunately, their quality has not improved (or even declined) > while other manufacturers are cranking out 'obscure' WW1 aircraft > and Merlin is no longer the 'only game in town'. Yet, to be > fair, Pegasus has had its share of 'dogs' as well (-three- tries > on the SS D.III and they -still- ain't got it right!) and, to > my mind at least, the Meikraft kits are generally below Merlin's > in quality. And Merlin still does some stuff that no one else > has done or is doing. Having built Meikraft kits, and "unflashing" a few Merlin, I would have to disagree with this statement. Most of the Meikraft kits are better than the best Merlin. I've built the Dornier D.I, the Pfalz D.III and the Hansa Brandenburg W.29, and although there were problems, they appeared not to be as many as the Merlin kits were. I started cleaning up a Nie 11 and the Fokker D.VI, and although the D.VI wasn't that *bad* a clean up, it wasn't as "easy" as the Pfalz. I also started on the Grumman XF5F, and that one probably put me off Merlin for quite awhile. However, in just completing one of the Pegasus early "dogs" - the Sparrowhawk - the Merlin Nie 11 and Fokker D.VI were on the order of Hasegawa. Two months work for such a small plane is enought to boggle the mind. One saving grace with the Sparrowhawk: the parts were, in general, spot on dimension wise. One saving grace with Merlin: they released two sets of white metal parts. One of seats, and one of engines. Quite superb, actually. I've got a number of the engines used up, and was pleased with them. FWIW. Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:48:00 -0800 From: modlctzn@pacificrim.net (Mike Franklin) To: wwi Subject: Baracca's SPAD XIII Message-ID: <199601292248.OAA29371@olympic> Hello People, The Glencoe instruction sheet says that Baracca's SPAD was painted in the standard French 5 color scheme. The Profile and the ARCO-Aircam book says the plane was olive green over gray. Does anyone have a photo to help clear this up? If it was green, anyone care to hazard a guess as to the F.S. 595a or Methuen equivalent? TIA, Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | _________________________|__________________________ | | | \ | / | | | "BEWARE THE PUN | ______\_O_O_/______ | | | IN THE SUN!" | / \ | | | annon. | (((((((+))))))) | | | ______|____________\_____/_____________|______ | | / \ | | []/_______\[] | | [] [] | | Mike Franklin is modlctzn@pacificrim.net | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:26:53 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Custom Photoetch & Decals Message-ID: Joe Boeke writes: >At any rate, I have a number of models that I would like to start/finish, >but one of the things I need to do is have some custom photoetch & decals >made for them. > >Has anyone had any custom photoetching or decals done? Any advice on >vendors, or on the process? What about cost? How cost prohibitive are >these methods? > Costs of such items would depend on whether you would do the art for these yourself or have someone do it for you. If someone else does this, figure that this will double the cost. The processes for photoetching and decal printing (using a lot of photographic techniques) are made for mass production of these items, the effort involved to make ONE custom sheet is about 2% short of the effort required to make 300 sheets. The question becomes how big is the market for the custom item you want to make ?? I have seen ads for custom decal production, if anyone on the list knows how much such a service would charge could you post this information. >From personal experience I know that making decals is a lot of hard work. If I were to have made one custom sheet for someone, the cost would have been $300-400 for the single sheet, with nearly half of that cost going into materials alone and cash in advance. FWIW Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:46:09 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Glenco Pfalz DIII review Message-ID: <199601292346.OAA21511@anchor> At 01:27 PM 1/29/96 -0500, Carlos Valdes wrote: The Flying Wrench elaborates: >Jesse, >Glenco is supposed to release a D.IIIa verison of this kit also. >Without looking at the appropriate datafiles, here are the main >differences between the two subtypes: >1. The D.IIIa had a larger tailplane. Primarly the chord width was larger on the horizontal stab of the D.IIIa. The DIIIa also had a much more rounded leading edge on the horizontal stab. >2. Most D.IIIa's had rounded wingtips on the lower mainplanes. This depends, some of the D.IIIs had rounded wingtips and some of the D.IIIas had angular wingtips This was due to production overlap as some late production run D.IIIs had DIIIa lower wing panels and some of the early D.IIIas had the D.III lower wing panels. In fact from what I've seen of German aircraft production of that period, I would not be suprised to see one panel of each style on one aircraft! >3. The interplane and cabane strut ends on most D.IIIa's were shaped > differently than on the D.III's. The D.III's strut ends were more pointy and the D.IIIa had rounded strut ends. The "rounded" adjective seems to come up a lot when refering to the D.IIIa. >4. The main difference was that the D.III's guns were buried beneath the > top decking and thus couldn't be unjammed in flight, while the > D.III's were conventionally exposed and within reach of the pilot. The D.IIIa had the exposed armament. However one set of drawings I have indicate that some late model D.IIIs had semi-exposed MGs in trough cutouts in the top of the fuselage. I also have drawings depicting completely buried weponry and another set showing the front half of the MG barrels. protruding from under the cowling. Access to the MGs in flight was a major complaint of the pilots flying the D.III and was immediately remedied on the DIII starting with aircraft # D.4165/17. The first such modified D.IIIa fighters arrived at the front in November of 1917, one year before the armistice. >I'm not sure as to the accuracy of the color schemes and >markings included in the D.III--I'll have to check mmy limited sources >and see what I have by way of marking information. Is there anyone out >there with a good list of Pfalz color sources? My limited sources and most sources for this aircraft are limited, show that the color schemes offered by this kit are accurate. The most interesting of these is the Cammo scheme. I had never seen this scheme until recently and never really thought of this as an alternative paint scheme for the Pfalz. However other schemes are so much more colorful that I doubt I'll ever use the cammo scheme. Addendum to my review: Upon some test fitting, I find that the propeller for this kit is completely unusable as there is about a 1/8 inch size difference between the nose of the aircraft and the spinner, with the fuselage nose being larger than the spinner. So it looks like the whole prop unit will have to be scratched. Also on closer inspection the tires, not the rims but the tires, look like something from a jet fighter with a low flat profile. The rims are also way too wide for scale So these will have to be replaced with more scale wheels. The gun cutouts will no doubt be present on the D.IIIa version. As I remember the guns have no support for the guns in the cutouts so it is somewhat difficult to position the guns accurately. It appears that Glenco has aproblem with the components moulded in silver plastic as these appear to belong to different kits. I found much the same problem with these parts in the N.28. "The Flying Wrench" He had grown up in a country run by politicians who sent the pilots to man the bombers to kill the babies to make the world safer for children to grow up in. Ursula K. le Guin - 1971 "The Lathe of Heaven" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:12:41 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Baracca's SPAD XIII Message-ID: <199601300012.PAA22449@anchor> At 05:53 PM 1/29/96 -0500, Mike Franklin wrote: >Hello People, >The Glencoe instruction sheet says that Baracca's SPAD was >painted in the standard French 5 color scheme. The Profile and the >ARCO-Aircam book says the plane was olive green over gray. > >Does anyone have a photo to help clear this up? > > If it was green, anyone care to hazard a guess as to the F.S. 595a >or Methuen equivalent? > >TIA, Mike > The Italian book "Color Profiles of World War I Combat Planes" show (and who better to say) a solid green paint scheme on his SPAD XIII aircraft. The color used is a light to medium shade of green that would not be in the OD catagory. Interestingly I have a copy of "Aviation History" that illustrates a painting by Loren Chantland depicting his SPAD XIII in the French five color scheme. Maggiore Baracca flew several different SPADs making it higly possible that he utilized both schemes at some point on his various aircraft. Note that he also flew the SPAD VII with which he scored his eleventh victory. This could also be the reason for the confusion as to the proper color. Perhaps the SPAD VII sported one scheme and the SPAD XIII utilized the other. Whew! Sure glad we cleared that up. "The Flying Wrench" If you would rule the world quietly, you must keep it amused. Ralph Waldo Emerson - 1844 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:25:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Joseph R. Boeke" To: wwi Subject: Re: Custom Photoetch & Decals Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Charles Hart wrote: > Joe Boeke writes: > > >Has anyone had any custom photoetching or decals done? Any advice on > >vendors, or on the process? What about cost? How cost prohibitive are > >these methods? > > > Costs of such items would depend on whether you would do the art for > these yourself or have someone do it for you. That is what I figured. I am perfectly happy to the art myself, I have all of the tools I need (I hope) to produce the art (Adobe Illustrator & references mainly). One of my pet projects is to build a USMC DH-4. I have seen one set of decals for the machine, but the colors were all wrong (the blue in the rondel was almost a powder blue - yech). At any rate, the fuselage rondels were a stylized representation of the USMC emblem (the eagle on the anchor), and I don't think I could paint a 1/72 representation of this. Thanks for the info. I can't believe how much they cost . I'll have to see if there is any way I can sell the design to someone (or rethink my plan). - Joe boeke@bucknell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:50:59 -0800 From: gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer ) To: wwi Subject: Revell 1/28 D VII - AARRGGHH!! Message-ID: <199601300250.SAA21695@ix11.ix.netcom.com> Guten Abend Meine Damen und Herren! It's a balmy night here in central Texas. A few minutes ago Eisenhour arrived to witness the ceremonial opening of the first Revell 1/28 scale D VII to arrive here and for which I just plunked down 30 sponduliks. So here goes: Cockpit: Pretty much a copy of the old Dr I. Fuselage frame is depicted by raised detail on inner surface of fuselage. This I can fix. Seat is nice. Remove molded-in harness. Anti-buffet screen behind seat is provided. Engine: Very nice. Intake manifold is anemic but this I can fix. Prop is not an Axial. Possibly a Steiniger?? Fuselage frame around the engine is molded into the panel openings on the sides of the fuselage a la the old 1/32 Spitfire kit. The side panel louvres as molded don't match the photo of the original a/c on page 19 of the Datafile. Decals: For Franz Buchner's aircraft of Jasta 13. Upper surfaces of both upper and lower wings and horizontal stab.are in lozenge. Lower surfaces are to be painted light blue. Green nose, blue fuselage, white fin and rudder. Checkered belly band and werewolf face. Four color lozenge looks a bit off and lower surface lozenge is not provided. Here's a business opportunity for some decal company! The Upper wing: Oh woe! Oh bitter gall! Tom is recalling the rumor that went around claiming that this was a 1950's kit which was never released. The upper wing is a disaster. The lower surface is dead flat and the upper surface is humped like Quasimodo never dreamed of being. This kit appears to have been made from the old Joe Nieto drawings with their incorrect depiction of the 'cathedralled' upper wing surface. It doesn't look fixable to me. Someone call up Bob Norgren and tell him to get to work. I'll fork over the bucks for a correct vac-form wing. The rest of the kit is OK. Tom sez: Wait for the US release and save yourself the money. By that time someone may have an aftermarket wing and some lozenge decals available. Bah! Donnerwetter! Franz und Emil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:51:53 -0800 From: bshatzer@ednet1.osl.or.gov (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Baracca's SPAD XIII Message-ID: <199601300251.AA09996@ednet1.osl.or.gov> The Flying Wrench wrote: > >At 05:53 PM 1/29/96 -0500, Mike Franklin wrote: > >>Hello People, > >>The Glencoe instruction sheet says that Baracca's SPAD was >>painted in the standard French 5 color scheme. The Profile and the >>ARCO-Aircam book says the plane was olive green over gray. >> >>Does anyone have a photo to help clear this up? >> >> If it was green, anyone care to hazard a guess as to the F.S. 595a >>or Methuen equivalent? >> >>TIA, Mike >> >The Italian book "Color Profiles of World War I Combat Planes" show (and who >better to say) a solid green paint scheme on his SPAD XIII aircraft. The >color used is a light to medium shade of green that would not be in the OD >catagory. Interestingly I have a copy of "Aviation History" that illustrates >a painting by Loren Chantland depicting his SPAD XIII in the French five >color scheme. >Maggiore Baracca flew several different SPADs making it higly possible that >he utilized both schemes at some point on his various aircraft. Note that he >also flew the SPAD VII with which he scored his eleventh victory. This could >also be the reason for the confusion as to the proper color. Perhaps the >SPAD VII sported one scheme and the SPAD XIII utilized the other. >Whew! Sure glad we cleared that up. I concur that the SPAD XIII was green - in fact I don't remember seeing any photos of Italian Spad's in the French five-color camo. I'd be inclined to be suspicious of the 'gray' undersides color - I'd think natural doped fabric would be more likely but that's only a surmise. I don't have a FS 595a on the green but the datafile gives 14110 as a camouflage green used on the Ansaldo SVA 5's - if better information doesn't turn up, that would probably be a reasonable choice. The Italian SPAD VII's tended to be yellow or doped fabric - tough to tell from the photos but probably yellow. My quickie check doesn't turn up any obvious Baracca SPAD VII's however so I'm no help there. Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - "You can crush a man with journalism." William Randolph Hearst ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:15:03 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Hansen To: wwi Subject: Re: Aurora Fok. D.VII (was WWI Board Game) Message-ID: <199601300415.UAA25870@kumr.lns.com> > >>Quick, which Firesign Theatre album is this line from? "He's stealing > >>Frank's SPAD, dad!" Also, perhaps one day I'll expand on my theory > >>regarding the relationship of the term "Shoes for Industry" with the > >>model kit industry. > > > >"The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra" > > Never heard of this one, but sure would like to. > > > >My favorite opus of the Firesign guys. Of course Everything You Know > >is Wrong. My favorite also. I hope these are reissued on CD eventually. Regarding "Shoes For Industry" and models: On the cover of their album Not Insane or Anything You Want To, the FST are seen destroying a city a-la Godzilla, and one of them is holding the fuselage of a 1/48 scale Piasecki helicopter, once issued by Aurora, but originally released by a company called "Helicopters for Industry." I have one, in fact. I can imagine that that weird company name may have been a source of inspiration for them. Not really WWI, but it is a model story! Brad Hansen Back to the freeway, which is already in progress! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:51:24 -0900 From: The Flying Wrench To: wwi Subject: Re: Revell 1/28 D VII - AARRGGHH!! Message-ID: <199601300751.WAA10573@anchor> At 09:49 PM 1/29/96 -0500, Greg Springer wrote: >Guten Abend Meine Damen und Herren! > >It's a balmy night here in central Texas. A few minutes ago Eisenhour >arrived to witness the ceremonial opening of the first Revell 1/28 >scale D VII to arrive here and for which I just plunked down 30 >sponduliks. So here goes: > >Cockpit: Pretty much a copy of the old Dr I. Fuselage frame is > depicted by raised detail on inner surface of fuselage. > This I can fix. Seat is nice. Remove molded-in > harness. Anti-buffet screen behind seat is provided. > >Engine: Very nice. Intake manifold is anemic but this I can fix. > Prop is not an Axial. Possibly a Steiniger?? Fuselage frame > around the engine is molded into the panel openings on the > sides of the fuselage a la the old 1/32 Spitfire kit. The > side panel louvres as molded don't match the photo of the > original a/c on page 19 of the Datafile. > >Decals: For Franz Buchner's aircraft of Jasta 13. Upper surfaces of > both upper and lower wings and horizontal stab.are in lozenge. > Lower surfaces are to be painted light blue. Green nose, blue > fuselage, white fin and rudder. Checkered belly band and > werewolf face. Four color lozenge looks a bit off and lower > surface lozenge is not provided. Here's a business opportunity > for some decal company! > >The Upper wing: Oh woe! Oh bitter gall! Tom is recalling the rumor > that went around claiming that this was a 1950's kit > which was never released. The upper wing is a > disaster. The lower surface is dead flat and the > upper surface is humped like Quasimodo never dreamed > of being. This kit appears to have been made from > the old Joe Nieto drawings with their incorrect > depiction of the 'cathedralled' upper wing surface. > It doesn't look fixable to me. Someone call up Bob > Norgren and tell him to get to work. I'll fork over > the bucks for a correct vac-form wing. The rest of > the kit is OK. > >Tom sez: Wait for the US release and save yourself the money. By that >time someone may have an aftermarket wing and some lozenge decals >available. > >Bah! Donnerwetter! > >Franz und Emil Wasn't this generic terminology for U-Boat sailors? Taxas? I pity you. - Snip - A major piece of vitriolic posting deleted. A flame comes from a paper match - This was Waco! - Snip - Oops! I guess my feelings about Taxas slipped out again. Now let me move on to more pleasurable matters. By the what part of central Taxas do you reside in? I am continually amazed at the level of knowledge exhibited on this forum. I bought the D.VII (paid exactly $29.95, no sales tax) and thought "pretty neat", other then the moulded detail. Just look at the starting mag, I've seen paintings with more depth! When will Revell find out about photetched detail? For the price of this kit it would be well within limits to supply photoetched parts. Doesn't Revell realize that the majority of the "kids" in their market are older than thirty and know more about the actual aircraft then the pilots who flew them and the mechanics that maintained them? But then I read this post and I find I don't even know what an anti buffet screen is let alone that a D.VII had one behind the seat. I take it though that is that little canvas bulkhead with the hole in it that ostensibly kept the wind in the open cockpit from buffeting the fabric internally. Then comes the prop discussion. I have seen the Axial but never heard of a Steiniger. To dispute such minutia boggles the mind, although in this case it's not so minute at 1/28 scale, but still the difference takes a pretty good eye as well as knowledge of propellers to dispute. That is if the prop was German. This one looks like their Sopwith Camel propeller. Now the intake manifold. Forget that intake manifold and look at the exhaust. The horn is reversed and gives the appearance of the early exhaust that protruded from the side of the cowling. The "saxophone" look is definitely missing. Somehow I know the mechanics and pilots of that era would be more than astonished to find Americans in 1996 discussing such details that they themselves were probably not all that clear on nor concerned with. Perhaps we should E-Mail Revell this discussion so they can see just what is being said about their new release. Ok louvers - I can handle louvers. The actual aircraft in the data file was a apparently a Fokker product with a few extra louvers. The kit has the standard Fokker louvers, Understandable in light of the fact that the kit engineers probably designed the aircraft first and then added the markings later. I have apparently found this to be the case more than once with various kits. The concept seems to be turn out a generic aircraft then add some decals. I know it should not be so for these prices, but that is evidently the economy of the system. Now for the big whine - the wing! I don't get it. What is the problem? As I look at my finely constructed DML D.VII kit on the desk, I see the same big fat cantilever wing in 1/48 scale. Now I will say that the taper is incorrect, horribly incorrect, In fact - Oh woe! Oh bitter gall! It is a scale abomination I can't believe it. It looks like, like, I should have saved my money and bought a Blue Max 1/24 Tailskid series D.VII. This is unforgivable in today's kit - 1950 yes! - 1990 No! But wait! I note that the entire lower wing is warped severely downward. When I bend the top piece of the upper wing it begins to take on the correct taper. Perhaps if we sand the alignment pins off and warp the top piece of the upper wing to its correct contour and then fit and glue the lower piece of the upper wing and sand the slightly mismatched edges, we can come up with a presentable piece. If you lay the upper wing on a flat surface you can see just how warped it is, when you pin it flat you will see the correct taper begin to reveal itself. I had a worse problem with the AG SPAD. Those wings were warped beyond repair and I finally returned the kit. I never noted such problems with the American version. I'll have to build before I pass final judgement on the wing situation. I will say for this kind of money, one would not expect to have to spend time steaming correct contours into the various pieces of the kit. One other item that has always irked me about AG kits is the box. When will they give us a box we can work out of and store components in. I have always used the box all the way through construction, at least until I started buying Revell Ag kits. Now, who is this guy Nieto and why should I know about his drawings? More to come when I begin construction. On a scale of one to ten, I give it a five - I like the beat, but I can't dance to it. "The Flying Wrench" If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell. Philip Sheridan - 1855 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:00:21 -0500 (EST) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: UPDATES 2 (fwd) Message-ID: <199601301400.JAA07796@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Here is Edward's latest update. Forwarded message: > From edward@isomedia.com Mon Jan 29 20:11:54 1996 > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:14:44 -0800 > Message-Id: <199601300114.RAA08494@isomedia.com> > X-Sender: edward@mail.isomedia.com > X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > To: AEW@unh.edu > From: edward@isomedia.com (Edward Hawkins) > Subject: UPDATES 2 > > Hi Allen, This is for your group :) > > > Monday January 29 1996 > Hi Everyone :) > > Still running a little behind on this BID thing, though I'm starting to > catch up :) > A few notes and then I'll address the Current bidding items. > > > **Have found a few of the PROFILES, but I haven't found the actual cache > that's about somewhere. The few RED cover PROFILES I found are on WW1 > aircraft, but will wait till I find the rest before they become available. > > **I found MORE books: CURTISS - The Hammondspot Era 1907-1915 > TAUBE - Dove of war > ABATROSS D.Va - German fighter of World War I > BRITISH FIGHTER UNITS - Western front 1914-1916 > CLOSEUP'S - The FOKKER DVII > U.S. MILITARY AIRCRAFT - 1908 to April 6, 1917 VOL. 1 - ENCYCLOPEDIA > U.S. MILITARY AIRCRAFT - 1908 to April 6, 1917 VOL. 2 - ENCYCLOPEDIA > > These books are NOT yet available for bidding yet, I want to move the > existing books first before moving on to new ones. (please, no one send > pre-bids) > > > > **** > Erik Pilawski > **** > Snow ... lot's of snow. We can meet on the weekend, just say when. > > > **** > Mike Franklin > **** > Your ANSALDO plans have gone out. BTW - I used to live in MOUNT VERNON so I > have NO sympathy for your wind and snow weather :P > > > **** > Randy Ray > **** > Getting your order put away, hope to hear you recieved it by Friday :) > > > **** > Allen Wright > **** > Have had your order ready to go for sometime, hope to hear you got it by Friday. > > > **** > Stephen Stonto > **** > Everytime I think about putting that reference in the mail ... I find > something else. I hope to mail it off real (real) soon :) > > > > > O.K. .. on to the current items up for bid. > > **** > THE GERMAN GIANTS - STORY OF THE "R" PLANES 1914-1919 > **** > This book was up for sale at a set price initially, after it was posted, > there were so many responses that I put the book up for bid. There is a > smoke stain down the side of the paper edges, the book is still in fine > condition. > > THE GERMAN GIANTS - THE GERMAN "R" PLANES 1914-1918 > G.W. HADDOW & PETER M. GROSZ > 310 PAGES > 1962 > PICTURES/PLANS/CHARTS/SPECS/TEXT/WAR HISTORY > LISTED $17.50 IN 1962 > HARDBACK > > Current Bidders are: > > $25.00 Gerald P. McOsker > $50.00 Michel.Lefort@ping.be (Michel Lefort) > $55.00 Joseph R. Boeke" > $73.00 pgb@werple.net.au (Paul Butler) > --Going once... > > > **** > MARINE AIRCRAFT OF THE 1914-1918 WAR > **** > This book was up for sale at a set price initially, after it was posted, > there were so many responses that I put the book up for bid. There is a > SLIGHT smoke stain down the side of the paper edges, the book is still in > fine condition. > I Believe I stated this item was up for bid till Jan 15th, because of my > delays, I'll carry it on till the Jan 20th. > > MARINE AIRCRAFT OF THE 1914-1918 WAR > HARLEYFORD PUBLICATIONS LIMITED > 1966 > 210 PAGES > TEXT, PICTURES, PLANS > SMOKE STAIN ON SIDE > > $50.00 Michel.Lefort@ping.be (Michel Lefort) > $75.00 agrafix@ix.netcom.com (Richard G. Ivansek ) > $90.00 Joseph R. Boeke" > --Going once... > > > **** > LESLIES'S PHOTOGRAPHIC REVIEW of the GREAT WAR > **** > This book (so far) has no takers ... no one is interested? > > LESLIES'S PHOTOGRAPHIC REVIEW of the GREAT WAR > LESLIE-JUDGE COMPANY - PUBLISHERS > COPYRIGHT 1919 > SECOND EDITION 1921 > 14x10 - (no page numbers) guessing 100-130 pages > > Covers the AMERICAN entrance and the finish of WWI, told in photos. With > maps, frontline drawings, chronological history, charts and color war posters. > > The book cover is a little worn (I mean it's only seventy-five years old) > but there was great attempt to preserve it after it was purchased. The paper > isn't yellowed, and there are no rips or tears. > > This book has a lot of great photos, large too :) > > > > **** > COLLIER'S NEW PHOTOGRAPHIC HISTORY > **** > As of this posting, There are no takers...No interest here either?? > > COLLIER'S NEW PHOTOGRAPHIC HISTORY > of the WORLD'S WAR. > COPYRIGHT 1918 > FIRST EDITION 1918 > 12x16-1/2 - 128 pages > > This book covers the entire war from start to finish, told in photo's, > sketches, paintings made by artists at the front. (mostely photo's though) > There is an added bonus with color portraits of the generals involved. > > The book cover is a little worn (I mean it's only seventy-seven years old) > but there was great attempt to preserve it after it was purchased. The paper > isn't yellowed, and there are no rips or tears. Photo's are very large. This > book also has more aircraft influence than the LELSLIE'S book. > > > ___________________________________________ > POCKET ENCYCLOPEDIA'S OF WORLD AIRCRAFT > > All have Color painted three views. Aircraft histories, and stories. Books > are 7-1/2"tall x 5" wide. For a few of them, the sleeves are smoke stained, > if you take of the sleeves, they look great! Deadline is January 31st 1996. > > > > **** > FIGHTERS 1914-19 > **** > > POCKET ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD AIRCRAFT > FIGHTERS 1914-19 > ATTACK AND TRAINING AIRCRAFT > KENNETH MUNSON > PUB: BLANDFORD PRESS > 1976 Third edition (UK) > 164 PAGES > > $10.00 jwallace@dca.com (Jim Wallace) > $30.00 Michel.Lefort@ping.be (Michel Lefort) > $35.00 "Thayer Syme" > > **** > BOMBERS 1914-19 > **** > > POCKET ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD AIRCRAFT > BOMBERS 1914-19 > PATROL and RECONNAISSANCE AIRCRAFT > KENNETH MUNSON > PUB: MACMILLAN COMPANY > 1968 First edition (USA) > > $30.00 Michel.Lefort@ping.be (Michel Lefort) > $35.00 "Thayer Syme" > > **** > PIONEER AIRCRAFT > **** > > POCKET ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD AIRCRAFT > PIONEER AIRCRAFT > 1903-14 > KENNETH MUNSON > PUB: MACMILLAN COMPANY > 1969 First edition (USA) > > $30.00 Michel.Lefort@ping.be (Michel Lefort) > $35.00 "Thayer Syme" > > **** > FLYING BOATS & SEAPLANES > **** > > POCKET ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD AIRCRAFT > FLYING BOATS & SEAPLANES > SINCE 1910 > KENNETH MUNSON > PUB: BLANDFORD PRESS > 1971 First edition (UK) > > > $30.00 Michel.Lefort@ping.be (Michel Lefort) > $35.00 "Thayer Syme" > > **** > FIGHTERS BETWEEN THE WARS 1919-39 > **** > > POCKET ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD AIRCRAFT > FIGHTERS BETWEEN THE WARS 1919-39 > ATTACK & TRAINING AIRCRAFT > KENNETH MUNSON > > $10.00 "Thayer Syme" > > > **** > BOMBERS BETWEEN THE WARS 1919-39 > **** > > POCKET ENCYCLOPEDIA OF WORLD AIRCRAFT > BOMBERS > BETWEEN THE WARS 1919-39 > KENNETH MUNSON > > $10.00 "Thayer Syme" > > > Thanks every one :) > > Edward > ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 16 ********************