WWI Digest 130 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Incredible shrinking Windsock by Robert Johnson 2) Re: Incredible shrinking Windsock by "Matt Bittner" 3) Pfalz D.VIII by "Matt Bittner" 4) RE:More on Edward R. Hamilton Bookseller... by "Carlos Valdes" 5) wwi discussion group by coty@the.link.ca (Coty Collectibles) 6) Books from Edward R. Hamilton Bookseller... by Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) 7) Jonah Whomu? by gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer) 8) Re: Incredible shrinking Windsock by amadon@pcix.com (Gerald P. McOsker) 9) Re: Hello from Melbourne by bciciora@wwa.com 10) Re: Pfalz D.VIII by John Roll (John P. Roll) 11) Re: New Scan from The Norseman by John Roll (John P. Roll) 12) Glossy or flat WW1 AC finish by GRydquist@gnn.com (Gregory Rydquist) 13) Gotha models by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 14) Re: Incredible shrinking Windsock by DavidL1217@aol.com 15) Re: Glossy or flat WW1 AC finish by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 16) RE: Jonah Whomu? by SDW@qld.mim.com.au 17) Re: Pfalz D.VIII by "Matt Bittner" 18) Re: Gotha models by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 19) Re[2]: Hello from Melbourne by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 20) Scale Wars by Brian Nicklas 21) Re: Scale Wars by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 22) Re: Scale Wars by "Matt Bittner" 23) Re: Incredible shrinking Windsock by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 11:27:45 +0000 From: Robert Johnson To: wwi Subject: Re: Incredible shrinking Windsock Message-ID: <9605161122.aa00865@scosysv.speechsys.com> Charles (hartc@spot.colorado.edu) wrote: > Yesterday I just received Windsock issue 2 in volume 12. Am I the > only one on this list to notice that the two issues so far in volume 12 are > 4 pages shorter than all of the issues last year ?? In fact these two > issues are smaller than any issue of Windsock since volume 3 way back in > 1987. So let's see, the single issue price is up to around 5 pounds (of > what !!??) yet the issue size is shrinking. What next from Rimell's house > of wonders ?? I've always thought these things over-priced, especially given the demand. What he needs is competition. How about it? Surely such a knowledgeable (or is that opinionated?) group as this can crank out quite a few author/illustrators to match Rimmel et al. I mean, how hard can one of these little booklets be? With enough pre-press subscribers, we ought to be able to organize some sort of Rimmel-frightening self-publication co-op at the very least. Photos and color pictures are hard to do on a budget, of course. But we could put a little more textual and line-drawing meat on the color/photo- graphical bones than Windsock does. If you like this idea, e-mail me, and I will think about it some more and report back (I have done quite a number of short-run, less elaborately illustrated technical books these last few years). Include whether you are interested in being any or all of the following and any projects you would like to see/undertake (estimate size/scope and availability of illustrations where possible). --author --contributing author --researcher --illustrator --editor/reviewer --consumer/subscriber Rob, robj@speechsys.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:20:06 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Incredible shrinking Windsock Message-ID: <199605161224.MAA24606@cso.com> On 16 May 96 at 12:49, Charles Hart typed diligantly: > Yesterday I just received Windsock issue 2 in volume 12. Am I the > only one on this list to notice that the two issues so far in volume 12 are > 4 pages shorter than all of the issues last year ?? In fact these two > issues are smaller than any issue of Windsock since volume 3 way back in > 1987. So let's see, the single issue price is up to around 5 pounds (of > what !!??) yet the issue size is shrinking. What next from Rimell's house > of wonders ?? Makes you wonder, doesn't it? It's because of this I hope that the OtF model column really takes off. Granted, I still like - and will definitely buy - the Datafiles. It's the "regular" magazine that has me worried as well. As was previously discussed, not only has page size decreased, but so has content. Do you really think the well of WW1 material is drying up? I kind of doubt it. There are still things that need to be covered in depth, and some source willing to do just that. Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:21:14 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: WW1 Modelers Subject: Pfalz D.VIII Message-ID: <199605161225.MAA24635@cso.com> I must say - once again - great job, Steve, on the Pfalz D.VIII! The picture uploaded to the site is great, and goes to show just what a master can do. And it's in 1/72nd!!!! :-o ;-) Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 96 13:02:08 EST From: "Carlos Valdes" To: wwi Subject: RE:More on Edward R. Hamilton Bookseller... Message-ID: <46934.carlos.valdes@conted.gatech.edu> Charles, Would you happen to have the book #s of the titles from your earlier posting (the Zep and Fokker books, etc.)? I can't seem to find them in my recent copies of the catalog. Thanks. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:06:28 -0600 From: coty@the.link.ca (Coty Collectibles) To: wwi Subject: wwi discussion group Message-ID: <199605161806.MAA00036@the.link.ca> subscribe coty@the.link.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 13:50:28 -0500 From: Charles_A._Duckworth@notes.up.com (Charles A. Duckworth) To: wwi (Multiple recipients of list) Subject: Books from Edward R. Hamilton Bookseller... Message-ID: <1996May16.114905.1155.326330@uprr-internet.notes.up.com> Finally found an old Hamilton list - several emails wanting more info on the Zepplin book 'Zepplin in Combat' Hamilton's reference number is 460575 $34.96 'Graf Spee's Raider's 1914-15' reference number 245534 $23.05 ' An American Pursuit Pilot in France 1917-19' reference Number 453625 $17.46 'Passchendaele Day by Day Account' 988561 $20.96 'Jutland a German Perspective' 977616 $23.06 Hope this helps Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:32:34 -0700 From: gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer) To: wwi Subject: Jonah Whomu? Message-ID: <199605170032.RAA05124@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Greetings Antipodean Chums! As I gave up reading US news magazines some years ago when their bias got the better of my blood pressure, I am not as versed in world affairs as when I was a lad. Pray enlighten me on the particulars of the oddly named Mr. Lomu. Is a Lomu a short-legged Emu? Who would knowingly travel in a ship (or airplane) with a guy named Jonah? I await your reply. Cheers! Greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 20:37:00 -0400 From: amadon@pcix.com (Gerald P. McOsker) To: wwi Subject: Re: Incredible shrinking Windsock Message-ID: Charles was noting a paucity in the amount of pages in the recent Windsocks- There are basically two reasons: a. he has given up on writng articles upon post war East European Brisfits and b. the lost material is being shaped into Mini Datafiles. Merde Gerry Gerry McOsker- Newport Rhode Island. "The whole dream of democracy is to raise the proletarian to the level of stupidity attained by the bourgeois" Gistave Flaubert or is it to lower the bourgeoise to the level of stupidity enjoyed by the underclass? ...machs nicht! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 96 20:19 CDT From: bciciora@wwa.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Hello from Melbourne Message-ID: On Thu, 16 May 1996 06:43:23 Rodd Perrin wrote: > Interests: 1/48 (sorry) WW1 aircraft, although anything from this > period is of interest, that is, I buy it and add it to my collection > of unmade kits.... Don't apologize for your choice of scale, Rodd. You'll find plenty of folks here that choose not to build in "toy scale". We aren't quite as vocal, and probably take more abuse than we dish out, but you'll find plenty of company here. Welcome to the list! :-) Bill Ciciora bciciora@pitneysoft.com 1/48 scale builder and proud of it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 21:27:38 -0600 From: John Roll (John P. Roll) To: wwi Subject: Re: Pfalz D.VIII Message-ID: >I must say - once again - great job, Steve, on the Pfalz D.VIII! The >picture uploaded to the site is great, and goes to show just what a >master can do. > >And it's in 1/72nd!!!! :-o ;-) > > >Matt >meba@cso.com Aw nuts! Did I screw up the numbers again? Well, it's not the first time, and I'm sure it won't be the last. Sorry, Steve. Good catch, Matt! I'll be doing a few more as soon as I get the hang of this scanning thing. It really does seem to be something of a black art! Hmmm, I think I've got a photo of someone's Otto Doppeldekker (SP?) in there, too! I'm sure he won't mind if I scan that one, too, will he? John John Roll j-roll@maroon.tc.umn.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 21:27:42 -0600 From: John Roll (John P. Roll) To: wwi Subject: Re: New Scan from The Norseman Message-ID: >> On 16 May 96 at 10:07, Allan Wright typed diligantly: >> >> > John Roll was nice enough to send me a recent scan on one of Steve >> > Hustad's more recent efforts, a Pfalz D.XII. >> >> Psst...hey Al, that's a Pfalz D.VIII - Steve's wonderful kitbash job. > >Doh! I just put up what John told me it was! > >-Al It'd be SOOO much easier on me if they'd get rid of these V's C's X's and all that stuff. I'm an engineer, for pete's sake. I've only got room for the Arabic numerals tattooed on my fingers! Sheepishly, John Roll j-roll@maroon.tc.umn.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 20:08:57 From: GRydquist@gnn.com (Gregory Rydquist) To: wwi Subject: Glossy or flat WW1 AC finish Message-ID: <199605170307.XAA07359@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com> Hello all: I am almost embarassed to ask this question, but what sort of finish should WW1 aircraft exhibit: gloss or flat or something in between? Does the surface covered (metal vs wood vs fabric) or the nationality or the date or length of service make any difference? What about the colors? say primary or decorative vs "standard issue" or OEM (original equipment manufacturer--as opposed to Oeffag.) What sort of sheen should insignia (read decals) display? What is the concession generally made for scale in order to for the model to exhibit the proper shade/effect (lighter or darker, shinier or duller?) Thanks in advance for your comments. Greg Rydquist Also: Any advice on assembling/painting the Aurora 1/48 (that's right-1/48) Gotha? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 21:22:46 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Gotha models Message-ID: Greg asks: > >Also: Any advice on assembling/painting the Aurora 1/48 (that's right-1/48) >Gotha? My advice, take the wheels and props out of the kit and use them (maybe), throw the rest in the landfill, buy a big pack of sheet styrene and the Windsock Datafile. Send us pictures when you are done. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 00:10:21 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Incredible shrinking Windsock Message-ID: <960517001020_492803459@emout13.mail.aol.com> I wonder if Dinosaurs has taken too much time and money from the Windsock efforts. The one glaring difference from years back is the products news is not. The products are usually out on the shelves before he reports on these. Perhaps the manufacturers are holding back. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 21:16:45 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Glossy or flat WW1 AC finish Message-ID: <199605170416.AA01856@ednet1.orednet.org> Greg Rydquist wrote: > >Hello all: > >I am almost embarrassed to ask this question, but what sort of finish should >WW1 aircraft exhibit: gloss or flat or something in between? Does the >surface covered (metal vs wood vs fabric) or the nationality or the date or >length of service make any difference? What about the colors? say primary or >decorative vs "standard issue" or OEM (original equipment manufacturer--as >opposed to Oeffag.) What sort of sheen should insignia (read decals) >display? Well, my own personal preference is a semi-gloss or satin finish - say two or three parts gloss to one part flat, depending on the paint brand and what looks good to you. You can see from the highlighted reflections on most of the photos that most (all?) WW1 aircraft weren't finished in a dead flat color. WW1 dopes tended to be a fairly smooth glossy finish when originally applied although they didn't weather well so the glossiness was soon lost although apparently seldom deteriorating to a real flat. There are a number of photos where you can actually see the reflections of the struts on the undersurface of the upper wing, indicating that the undersurfaces (somewhat protected from weathering) could be quite glossy indeed. I've never made any attempt to do the insignia in a different finish than the rest of the airframe although I've seen references that the British roundel colors were much glossier dopes than the PC-10 or PC-12 used for the rest of the airframe. I'd suspect though that a month or so of actual service would make any differences pretty much invisible to the naked eye. >What is the concession generally made for scale in order to for the model to >exhibit the proper shade/effect (lighter or darker, shinier or duller?) Well some folks swear by 'scale effect' and some folks swear at it, so I ain't opening this can of worms. Generally, I think the darker colors like PC-10 tend to look better if lightened a smidge but that's just personal preference. Anyway, PC-10 is all over the ballpark in shading anyway as a result of changes in specifications during the war and general weathering so that's a shade you can pretty much go with what looks good to you - as long as you're in the general olivish/khakish/brownish range, no one can prove you wrong. Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - -"These days the buck stops nowhere." Don Henley - ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 96 11:10:00 EDT From: SDW@qld.mim.com.au To: wwi%pease1.sr.unh.edu@teksup.mim.com.au Subject: RE: Jonah Whomu? Message-ID: <199605170509.PAA21225@mimmon.mim.com.au> Hi all, Sorry for this off topic digression, but at least its about a bird (kiwi) Greg asks: > Pray enlighten me on the particulars of >the oddly named Mr. Lomu. Is a Lomu a short-legged Emu? Naah, a long legged Kiwi. Extremely large, mightily ferocious, capable of trampling fearless springboks, lions, wallabies (sigh),frogs etc in full flight whilst carrying a disproportionate number of said beasts on his back at extraordinarily high speed. He's a rugby player, and a good one. Someting like a cross between a running back and a locomotive We now return you to our usual programming Shane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 06:48:21 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Pfalz D.VIII Message-ID: <199605170653.GAA06746@cso.com> On 16 May 96 at 22:29, John P. Roll typed diligantly: > Hmmm, I think I've got a photo of someone's Otto Doppeldekker > (SP?) in there, too! I'm sure he won't mind if I scan that one, > too, will he? Heck no! I've been trying to get my brother-in-law to photogoraph a bunch of models for me since my camera went on the broken fritz. Thanks John! Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 96 07:50:52 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re: Gotha models Message-ID: <9604178323.AA832344725@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> Greg asks: > >Also: Any advice on assembling/painting the Aurora 1/48 (that's right-1/48) >Gotha? My advice, take the wheels and props out of the kit and use them (maybe), throw the rest in the landfill, buy a big pack of sheet styrene and the Windsock Datafile. Send us pictures when you are done. Charles Charles, you are a cold cold man. I, for one, really don't need pictures of a 1/48 scale landfill. Kidding aside (if I can for a moment), that kit can be used as a basis for a decent model although it will take a lot of work. Greg: do you have the issue of Fine Scale Modeller that has an entire article about this? If not, let me know. I will get you the issue number etc later so that you can pick up a back issue. I would xerox it for you but there are color photos and I'm too lazy and cheap to get color photocopies. Plus Kalmbach publishing might get hacked off. (not that that has stopped me before....) Good luck and stay away from landfills. ---Stephen Tontoni tontoni@halycon.com stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 96 07:58:01 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: Hello from Melbourne Message-ID: <9604178323.AA832345085@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> On Thu, 16 May 1996 06:43:23 Rodd Perrin wrote: > Interests: 1/48 (sorry) WW1 aircraft, although anything from this > period is of interest, that is, I buy it and add it to my collection > of unmade kits.... Don't apologize for your choice of scale, Rodd. You'll find plenty of folks here that choose not to build in "toy scale". We aren't quite as vocal, and probably take more abuse than we dish out, but you'll find plenty of company here. Welcome to the list! :-) Damn straight; don't apologize just because the others resent the resurgence of 1/48th as the most popular scale (evidence is new kits, etc). Those mean 1/72 kids just wish they were as lucky as we -- the jealous fools. They don't realize that they could do 1/48th if they wanted. I know that I do 1/72 when I feel like it. ---Stephen Tontoni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 96 11:18:44 EDT From: Brian Nicklas To: Subject: Scale Wars Message-ID: <199605171517.LAA22609@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Hey Steve, Come to DC and take a look at my desk! Under the pile of reference material and photos are 1/144, 1/72, 1/48, 1/35 and 1/24th! True, most are 1/72, and 90+% of my WWI are 1/72, but I even have a ESCI 1/9 Kettenkrad and Kublewagen (on the shelf) So some of us, even though vocal on 1/72, are building other scales! Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 96 08:41:39 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re: Scale Wars Message-ID: <9604178323.AA832347785@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> Hey Steve, Come to DC and take a look at my desk! Under the pile of reference material and photos are 1/144, 1/72, 1/48, 1/35 and 1/24th! True, most are 1/72, and 90+% of my WWI are 1/72, but I even have a ESCI 1/9 Kettenkrad and Kublewagen (on the shelf) So some of us, even though vocal on 1/72, are building other scales! Go to DC..... I seem to have an open calendar in July..... Good for you. I like doing different scales depending on the subject too. Right now I have WAY too many projects going on. I think that I have more 1/72 than 1/48th going on right now. Hard to say really. I have a couple of 1/32 kits that I want to start someday, (William's Brothers Gee Bee racer for one) but haven't yet. Have fun out there!! --Stephen Tontoni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:44:36 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Scale Wars Message-ID: <199605171149.LAA12259@cso.com> On 17 May 96 at 11:41, stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu typed diligantly: > Hey Steve, > Come to DC and take a look at my desk! > Under the pile of reference material and photos are > 1/144, 1/72, 1/48, 1/35 and 1/24th! > True, most are 1/72, and 90+% of my WWI are 1/72, > but I even have a ESCI 1/9 Kettenkrad and Kublewagen (on the shelf) > So some of us, even though vocal on 1/72, are building > other scales! > > Go to DC..... I seem to have an open calendar in July..... > > Good for you. I like doing different scales depending on the > subject too. Right now I have WAY too many projects going > on. I think that I have more 1/72 than 1/48th going on right > now. Hard to say really. I have a couple of 1/32 kits that I > want to start someday, (William's Brothers Gee Bee racer for > one) but haven't yet. Gee, with this kind of talk, you would think that just because some of us *JOKE* about one scale versus another we deserved to be flamed! Not so! I, for one, do a few things in 1/48th! Yes, it might be blasphemy to some, but I've got three 1/48th jobs on my shelf, one of those WW1! And I plan on taking DML's D.VII and converting it to the correct nose for Raben's plane! So some of us do cross-scale. And I have done 1/35th. Which is what Steve H. does as well. You should see his 1/35th trench dioramas. Immaculate! So, just because some of us are vocal towards pro-172nd, doesn't mean we forgo everything else! Heck, some of us also do 1/700th...;-) Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:05:20 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Incredible shrinking Windsock Message-ID: Gerry McO writes: >Charles was noting a paucity in the amount of pages in the recent >Windsocks- There are basically two reasons: a. he has given up on writng >articles upon post war East European Brisfits and b. the lost material is >being shaped into Mini Datafiles. I might respectfully disagree on point B, I think the Mini Datafiles are the result of recycling photos and drawings out of the earlier, out-of-print issues. When might we see a Datafile on say the Breguet 14 or DH-9, or even the DH-4 ?? I mean having yet another publication on the Fokker D-VII will be nice, particularlly if it uses photos that haven't been published frequently in the past, but there are still a few well known types of WW I a/c that are very much under-represented in print. In the case of the regular magazine though, I have to wonder how big the Rimell archive of photos and drawings is. I mean photos of WW I aircraft are a finite resource even though there are many images which haven't been seen in wide spread publications. Pete Grosz's photo archive of German Albatros fighters is said to number over 800 photos, certainly enough for a book in its own right. I suppose that if Ray Rimell doesn't get access to a new set of photos in the near future then we may have to settle for an increasingly expensive cover price to accompany the shriveling magazine. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 130 *********************