WWI Digest 116 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Stropp Decal Sheet by gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer) 2) Re: The Red Baron on TV by DavidL1217@aol.com 3) Re: Kit Recommendations/Reviews by DavidL1217@aol.com 4) Re: Blue Rider request by DavidL1217@aol.com 5) Re: Blue Rider request by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 6) Re: The Red Baron on TV by GRydquist@gnn.com (Gregory Rydquist) 7) AVIATION HISTORY SEMINAR ANNOUNCED by Brian Nicklas 8) Re:SE5/5a Propeller by bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) 9) Re: F.1 102/17 (was: FI/Dr I Color Schemes) by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 10) Re: Re[2]: Kit Recommendations/Reviews by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) 11) AVIATION HISTORY SEMINAR ANNOUNCED by David Takemoto-Weerts 12) bye, I'm off the list. by Martin Lawder 13) Re: Blue Rider request by "Matt Bittner" 14) Re: Blue Rider request by MShan15048@aol.com 15) Re: bye, I'm off the list. by "Matt Bittner" 16) Re: Blue Rider request by aew (Allan Wright) 17) Re: Blue Rider request by "Matt Bittner" 18) Problems with leaky Fawcett by aew (Allan Wright) 19) Re[2]: Blue Rider request/earthquake in Seattle by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 20) Re: Re[2]: Blue Rider request/earthquake in Seattle by "Matt Bittner" 21) Re: Blue Rider request by modlctzn@pacificrim.net (Mike Franklin) 22) Re: Re[2]: Kit Recommendations/Reviews by modlctzn@pacificrim.net (Mike Franklin) 23) Re[2]: Blue Rider request by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 24) Thanks, Shane by cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) 25) Re: F.1 102/17 (was: FI/Dr I Color Schemes) by Erik Pilawskii 26) Re: Re[2]: Blue Rider request/earthquake in Seattle by MShan15048@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 16:26:35 -0700 From: gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer) To: wwi Subject: Stropp Decal Sheet Message-ID: <199605022326.QAA07338@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Hello everyone! I noticed a thread on the Spruce Goose Stropp decal sheet. It is very well printed but the crosses are out of proportion. You'll have to come up with a better set from another manufacturer. Cheers! Greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:29:15 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: The Red Baron on TV Message-ID: <960502212915_389094488@emout12.mail.aol.com> It's pretty good. Saw it 6 months ago. Several of the Over the Front guys had a hand in it. Much better than most MvR documentaries. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:31:45 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Kit Recommendations/Reviews Message-ID: <960502213144_389097026@emout14.mail.aol.com> Greetings Charlie from St. Louis The Aeroclud FE2b is quite nice. Highly recommended. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 21:41:35 -0400 From: DavidL1217@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Rider request Message-ID: <960502214134_389106872@emout15.mail.aol.com> Don't forget the bombers/recon squardons. The swan, rooster on the bomb. My Merlin Bregeut 14 is waiting. Also Tom's will do a 1/48 Bregeut. I no longer have to look for an Aurora kit! Also on fighter escadrilles, how about Spa 81, the greyhounds. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:12:02 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Blue Rider request Message-ID: <199605030212.WAA19349@ns1.ptd.net> Until Blue Rider gets it done, a fair number can be found in the Glencoe Spad book that was redone as a supplement to the Spad kit. Mike Muth Love ya, Mary-Ann ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 19:29:30 From: GRydquist@gnn.com (Gregory Rydquist) To: wwi Subject: Re: The Red Baron on TV Message-ID: <199605030227.WAA20200@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com> Anyone, Please tell me that the May 1 Red Baron show on A&E is the one that starts with shots of a Fokker DVII at Rheinbeck an then talks about a number of aces before delving into vonR. If so, then that means I already have it on tape (from a few years) ago. If not, then I'm doomed to constantly checking for the rerun. Greg R ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 96 23:19:06 EDT From: Brian Nicklas To: Subject: AVIATION HISTORY SEMINAR ANNOUNCED Message-ID: <199605030317.XAA10659@pease1.sr.unh.edu> *** Resending note of 05/02/96 23:16 To: NASAD003--SIVM Multiple recipient From: Aeronautics & Aerospace History Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:14:58 -0400 Reply-To: Aeronautics & Aerospace History Sender: Aeronautics & Aerospace History From: Carl Bobrow Subject: AVIATION HISTORY SEMINAR ANNOUNCED To: Multiple recipients of list AEROSP-L AVIATION HISTORY SEMINAR ANNOUNCED The First War in the Air will be the focus of a weekend meeting of aviation historians in Washington, D.C., June 20-23, 1996. More than a hundred delegates are expected, with some attending from Australia, New Zealand and Canada, and from many of the fifty American states. The Fifth Biennial Seminar of the League of World War I Aviation Historians will feature major presentations by internationally known specialists such as England's Alex Revell and Peter M. Grosz of Princeton, NJ, as well as staff members of the National Air and Space Museum, Don Lopez and Tom D. Crouch. Prof. John Morrow of the University of Georgia will speak; also Carl J. Bobrow an authority on early Russian aviation. A wide spectrum of topics and activities have been planned: "No. 56 Squadron, the Best of the Royal Air Force'(Revell); "The Development of Long-Range Strategic Bombing,"(Bobrow); "The Air and Space Museum's World War I Collection"(Lopez); "The Good, the Bad, and the Beautiful"-a review of some extremes in World War I aircraft design (Grosz); "Blaming Wilbur and Orville: the Wright Patent Suits and the Progress of American Aviation Prior to 1917"(Crouch); "The First War in the Air:Myth and Reality"(Morrow). Research on air combat on the Romanian Front will be offered by Prof. Peter A. Fedders of St. Louis University and Prof. Ronald Schaffer of California State University will present his paper "Rendezvous with Death: American Flyers Confront Mortality in the Great War." A guided tour of the National Air & Space Museum's Restoration Facility at Silver Hill has been arranged which will include transportation to and from the facility. The Seminar represents a number of "firsts" for the League. It is the first time that an international Seminar has been planned by a regional Chapter - in this case, the Atlantic Coast Chapter of the League. Another "first" was the issuing of a Call for Papers, soliciting on-going research in the field of World War I aviation. Those chosen from many submissions include Prof. Fedders and Prof. Schaffer as well as two historians from "down under" - Judy Robinson, RN, of Auckland, New Zealand, and Colin A. Owers, Boorowa, Australia. Each will speak of aeronautical preparations for war in the two countries. Yet another "first" is the mounting of a model aircraft contest and exhibition. Directed by author-artist-Sikorsky engineer Alan Durkota of Stratford, CT, the contest is expected to attract the expert work of modelers young and old alike as well as model clubs across the nation. Durkota has created special awards and medals for the event, and is particularly qualified to judge the quality of work on show since his own models, as well as those of his colleague, Tom Darcy of Ellington, CT, are in the permanent collection of the National Air and Space Museum. The League of World War I Aviation Historians is a non-profit organization based in Cincinnati, Ohio, with members world-wide including Australia, Canada, England, France, Germany, Italy, Poland, South Africa, Sweden and Wales. The League, established in 1986 as the immediate successor to The Cross and Cockade Society,(USA), publishes a handsome professional journal quarterly and sponsors educational and cultural programs committed to the accumulation, preservation and publication of the history and traditions relating to aerial activity of World War I. To register contact: The League of World War I Aviation Historians P.O. Box 2475 Rockford, IL 61132-0475 This late note, we've been getting queries about costs for attending presentations only, without meals - or seeing the model show alone a segmented per-feature cost schedule is available at the above address. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:24:05 -0400 (EDT) From: bucky@postoffice.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael) To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:SE5/5a Propeller Message-ID: <199605030324.XAA06084@ns1.ptd.net> I'm not sure what I like best about this list...all the e-mail messages with interesting info or the questions that keep me up because I'm sure I read the answer somewhere and start looking through all my books, etc. Anyway, someone wondered about the 4-bladed prop and the 2-bladed. The SE5s were fitted with a 2-bladed prop. The "early production" SE5a's had a 4-bladed prop. I gues that means the late production SE5a's also had a 2-bladed prop. That's all I could interpret from the SE5 In Action book from Squadron. High in the Empty Blue, the 56 Squadron History, spends some time on p.424 talking about gear-driven engines and direct drive engines. I think that the 200hp Wolseley Viper had a direct drive, 2 bladed prop. The 220 hp Hispano Suiza geared at 1170 rpm used a 4-blade prop. I'm sure my interpretation on this stuff isn't totally accurate, so feel free to expand, criticize or praise. Mike Muth Love ya, Mary-Ann ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 20:21:34 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: F.1 102/17 (was: FI/Dr I Color Schemes) Message-ID: <199605030321.AA27102@ednet1.orednet.org> Erik writes: > > Good heavens, man! Speak up! You're driving me insane with curiosity >(or, was that the idea?)!! Well, (he said, climbing out on a complete speculative limb), the preliminary musings go something like this: F.1 103/17 had a 'light', streaky rear fuselage aft of the cross (pp 12 & 13, Squadron "In Action") F.1 102/17 had a 'dark' solid rear fuselage aft of the cross (pp 8 & 14, Squadron "In Action") But, when we look at the 'three ground handlers' photo supposedly of F.1 103/17, we see the F.1 103/17 'face' on the cowling BUT with what appears to be a DARK rear fuselage aft of the cross. So, we have a puzzle. The possibilities seem three: 1) The dark rear fuselage in the 'three ground handlers' photo (there's gotta be a better way to ID photos!) is an optical illusion - it isn't really there, or, 2) Voss's F.1 103/17 had it's rear fuselage -repainted- sometime between the "In Action" pp 12 & 13 photos and the 'three ground handlers' photo, or, 3) This photo is NOT of F.1 103/17 but rather MvR's F.1 102/17 and F.1 102/17 had a 'face' painted on its cowl too! Now initially, possibility one seemed most likely which is why I'm still looking for a bigger print of this photo. Yet, I've looked my small photo with a glass and I can't make the dark rear fuselage go away. It clearly comes all the way forward to the cross surround - too far for it merely to be the shadow of the tailplane. So, unless we can figure out a way to make the dark rear fuselage in this photo go away, we are left with two rather interesting and somewhat heretical possibilities. Right now, I'm still trying to make the dark rear fuselage go away but if we can't, then I think we have to do some rethinking on the markings of F.1 102/17 or F.1 103/17 or both. Anyone who wants to take a saw to my limb, have at it! Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - -"These days the buck stops nowhere." Don Henley - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 20:27:46 -0700 From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer) To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: Kit Recommendations/Reviews Message-ID: <199605030327.AA00875@ednet1.orednet.org> Mike Franklin wrote: >And then Bill Shatzer wrote: > >>Well, there is actually a Blackburn Shark as well from ol' Merit which >>pops up from time to time in a SMER box as well but I was speaking just >>'bout the WW1 stuff. >> >Now I write: > >Me thinks there was NOT a Blackburn Shark but it was a Fairey Swordfish. >>From Merit it was too. And not too bad a kit, float version only. A set >of landing gear and wheels are available in metal from Aeroclub. Both >the Walrus and Swordfish were 1/48. The Walrus kit is a little crude but >looks just like a Walrus when made up. Alas, you are correct - the old 'wetware' computer slipped a cog there. Teach me to post without checking! Cheers, -- Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org -or- aw177@Freenet.Carleton.ca - -"These days the buck stops nowhere." Don Henley - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 22:11:00 -0700 (PDT) From: David Takemoto-Weerts To: wwi Subject: AVIATION HISTORY SEMINAR ANNOUNCED Message-ID: <199605030511.WAA25974@franc.ucdavis.edu> Apologies if this is old news: >X-POP3-Rcpt: szweerts@peseta >Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 23:14:58 -0400 >Reply-To: Aeronautics & Aerospace History >Sender: Aeronautics & Aerospace History >From: Carl Bobrow >Subject: AVIATION HISTORY SEMINAR ANNOUNCED >To: Multiple recipients of list AEROSP-L >Content-Length: 3768 > > AVIATION HISTORY SEMINAR ANNOUNCED > >The First War in the Air will be the focus of a weekend meeting of aviation >historians in Washington, D.C., June 20-23, 1996. More than a hundred >delegates are expected, with some attending from Australia, New Zealand and >Canada, and from many of the fifty American states. > >The Fifth Biennial Seminar of the League of World War I Aviation Historians >will feature major presentations by internationally known specialists such as >England's Alex Revell and Peter M. Grosz of Princeton, NJ, as well as staff >members of the National Air and Space Museum, Don Lopez and Tom D. Crouch. > Prof. John Morrow of the University of Georgia will speak; also Carl J. >Bobrow an authority on early Russian aviation. > >A wide spectrum of topics and activities have been planned: "No. 56 Squadron, >the Best of the Royal Air Force'(Revell); "The Development of Long-Range >Strategic Bombing,"(Bobrow); "The Air and Space Museum's World War I >Collection"(Lopez); "The Good, the Bad, and the Beautiful"-a review of some >extremes in World War I aircraft design (Grosz); "Blaming Wilbur and Orville: >the Wright Patent Suits and the Progress of American Aviation Prior to >1917"(Crouch); "The First War in the Air:Myth and Reality"(Morrow). Research >on air combat on the Romanian Front will be offered by Prof. Peter A. Fedders >of St. Louis University and Prof. Ronald Schaffer of California State >University will present his paper "Rendezvous with Death: American Flyers >Confront Mortality in the Great War." A guided tour of the National Air & >Space Museum's Restoration Facility at Silver Hill has been arranged which >will include transportation to and from the facility. > >The Seminar represents a number of "firsts" for the League. It is the first >time that an international Seminar has been planned by a regional Chapter - >in this case, the Atlantic Coast Chapter of the League. Another "first" was >the issuing of a Call for Papers, soliciting on-going research in the field >of World War I aviation. Those chosen from many submissions include Prof. >Fedders and Prof. Schaffer as well as two historians from "down under" - >Judy Robinson, RN, of Auckland, New Zealand, and Colin A. Owers, Boorowa, >Australia. Each will speak of aeronautical preparations for war in the two >countries. Yet another "first" is the mounting of a model aircraft contest >and exhibition. Directed by author-artist-Sikorsky engineer Alan Durkota of >Stratford, CT, the contest is expected to attract the expert work of modelers >young and old alike as well as model clubs across the nation. Durkota has >created special awards and medals for the event, and is particularly >qualified to judge the quality of work on show since his own models, as well >as those of his colleague, Tom Darcy of Ellington, CT, are in the permanent >collection of the National Air and Space Museum. > >The League of World War I Aviation Historians is a non-profit organization >based in Cincinnati, Ohio, with members world-wide >including Australia, Canada, England, France, Germany, Italy, Poland, South >Africa, Sweden and Wales. The League, established in 1986 as the immediate >successor to The Cross and Cockade Society,(USA), publishes a handsome >professional journal quarterly and sponsors educational and cultural programs >committed to the accumulation, preservation and publication of the history >and traditions relating to aerial activity of World War I. > >To register contact: >The League of World War I Aviation Historians >P.O. Box 2475 >Rockford, IL 61132-0475 > >This late note, we've been getting queries about costs for attending >presentations only, without meals - or seeing the model show alone a >segmented per-feature cost schedule is available at the above address. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 13:54:44 +22300819 (MESZ) From: Martin Lawder To: wwi Subject: bye, I'm off the list. Message-ID: <9605031154.AA17539@sulu.fb12.tu-berlin.de> Hi, thanks for the informative time here on the list, I've read more than I've posted, but this is my last day at work, and I'll be unsubscribed until I get a new job or internet at home. Cheers Martin Lawder Paul-Krause-Strasse 6 14129 Berlin GERMANY tel +49 30 803 1965 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 06:46:03 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Rider request Message-ID: <199605030650.GAA15177@cso.com> On 2 May 96 at 22:10, Mary-Ann/Michael typed diligantly: > Until Blue Rider gets it done, a fair number can be found in the Glencoe > Spad book that was redone as a supplement to the Spad kit. Yea, but it's in *that* scale...;-) Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 07:59:15 -0400 From: MShan15048@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Rider request Message-ID: <960503075914_105737125@emout10.mail.aol.com> You mean the FRENCH actually flew SPADS????!!!! (tongue firmly in cheek). Yes, extend the lists of markings available. The French Spads would be a good release in ANY scale. Also, I would be interested in markings that extend the choices for any type (I'd love to see a few releases of Sopwith Triplanes in non-No. 10 Squadron, more of the crazy Sopwith Pup designs that got used in the training squadrons, etc.) Speaking of Sopwiths, how about conversion parts to do the navalized Pups and Camel 2F1's? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 07:11:13 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: bye, I'm off the list. Message-ID: <199605030715.HAA15432@cso.com> On 3 May 96 at 7:54, Martin Lawder typed diligantly: > Hi, > thanks for the informative time here on the list, > I've read more than I've posted, but this is my last > day at work, and I'll be unsubscribed until I get a > new job or internet at home. > Cheers Sorry to hear it. Hope you come back soon!! Auf Wiedersehen! Matt meba@cso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 08:30:41 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Rider request Message-ID: <199605031230.IAA12287@pease1.sr.unh.edu> > Until Blue Rider gets it done, a fair number can be found in the Glencoe > Spad book that was redone as a supplement to the Spad kit. Only useful for 1/48 modelers. Myself I'd love to see the same sheet in 1/72. -Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist. University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 07:33:21 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Rider request Message-ID: <199605030737.HAA15662@cso.com> On 2 May 96 at 10:55, Richard Humberstone typed diligantly: > Sounds like a good suugestion. Doing all the emblems could also > fit into our new venture (48pp A5 books with a decal sheet). I > would appreciate any help in assembling the information and would > be pleased if someone on the list could possibly come up with some > copyy. (I keep running out of time to write, draw plans, produce > decals etc......As for modelling itself - I last built a kit in > 1988!!) I'm glad to hear you're interested. I'll provide some general info, just for the list's information. Then I'll compile all the references I have, and email them to you. I also plan on calling Greg Van Wyngarden (hopefully this weekend) to see what type of assistance he can lend. For the general references: Cross & Cockade (the original US series) started with what was termed "Colors & Markings" and "Plumage". When C&C went defunct, Over the Front continued both of these. Most of the articles have been written by Greg Van Wyngarden and Jon Guttman. Some articles include: "Colors & Markings of Spa.81", "Plumage: Spa.159", etc. Windsock has been carrying a series by Jon Guttman called "Foreign Legion of the Air". Granted, most of these articles pertain to specific individuals - most of them American - but these individuals did fly in French squadrons, and the squadron emblem is represented. Examples include "Foreign Legion pt. 23 - Storks", "Foreign Legion pt. 30 - American Greyhounds", etc. Although there might be other references - I turn to the list here for help - these series of articles - IMNSHO - are the most beneficial. And as I said, I'll call Greg VW and ask him where I (we) can go with this. As was already mentioned, there is also the Glencoe sheet for reference. However, from what I understand, not all squadron's are represented. Wouldn't it be great if we can turn this venture into a list thingie? Have various (all?) people on the list contribute to an end product people obviously want? I'm willing to be the central point of contact, if that's needed. And I'll start work on the articles *I know of* (which means I own, and have entered into my publication database) and get that to Richard. Matt -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Matthew Bittner O- 1/72nd WW1 Modeler, ecto subscriber meba@cso.com PowerBuilder developer; Omaha, Nebraska Loreena McKennitt; Jewel; suddenly, tammy!; jehova waitresses Disclaimer: opinions expressed by me are mine, mine, mine! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 08:57:13 -0400 (EDT) From: aew (Allan Wright) To: wwi Subject: Problems with leaky Fawcett Message-ID: <199605031257.IAA12566@pease1.sr.unh.edu> Hi all - if anyone knows Guy Fawcett please let him know that I had to remove him from the list because his mail was all bouncing back to me. Thanks, Al =============================================================================== Allan Wright Jr. | Rodents of unusual size? I don't think they exist. University of New Hampshire+--------------------------------------------------- Research Computing Center | WWI Modeling mailing list: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Internet: aew@unh.edu | WWI Modeling WWW Page: http://pease1.sr.unh.edu =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 96 08:14:55 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: Blue Rider request/earthquake in Seattle Message-ID: <9604038311.AA831136563@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> Until Blue Rider gets it done, a fair number can be found in the Glencoe Spad book that was redone as a supplement to the Spad kit. True enough; unfortunately Matt is a 1/72 kind of guy. So the industry has to accomodate him --snigger-- and his eccentric needs. Meanwhile, the important non-models stuff; while the Seattle Sonics were tearing the Sacramento Kings to pieces yesterday, we had a little earthquake. It was just strong enough to flip out my cats and move books on the bookshelf a little so that you can see how much I DON't dust. Luckily I wasn't airbrushing at the time! Also models just sat there without a problem. I wonder if it would be a good idea to make some "chocks" from that tacky junk that they sell to put up posters in dorms. Do any of you take earthquake precautions for your precious models? See you all later ---- Stephen Tontoni (HAPPY FRIDAY!!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 10:26:40 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: Blue Rider request/earthquake in Seattle Message-ID: <199605031031.KAA18324@cso.com> On 3 May 96 at 11:14, stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu typed diligantly: > True enough; unfortunately Matt is a 1/72 kind of guy. So > the industry has to accomodate him --snigger-- and his > eccentric needs. What I'm hoping is that with the release of the sheet, Steve H. will do a "belligerent" aircraft! (Huge ) Matt ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:03:29 -0700 From: modlctzn@pacificrim.net (Mike Franklin) To: wwi Subject: Re: Blue Rider request Message-ID: <199605031803.LAA23099@olympic.pacificrim.net> >On 2 May 96 at 22:10, Mary-Ann/Michael typed diligantly: > >> Until Blue Rider gets it done, a fair number can be found in the Glencoe >> Spad book that was redone as a supplement to the Spad kit. Matt replied: >Yea, but it's in *that* scale...;-) I reply: So what's your point? Later, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:03:32 -0700 From: modlctzn@pacificrim.net (Mike Franklin) To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: Kit Recommendations/Reviews Message-ID: <199605031803.LAA23105@olympic.pacificrim.net> Bill Shatzer Wrote > > Alas, you are correct - the old 'wetware' computer slipped > a cog there. Teach me to post without checking! > > Cheers, I write: Just to prove I too am prone to mistrakes, I was in error about the first release of the Blackburn Shark. It was Frog released both versions, the first in the Penguin Range, the second as a regular Frog kit. There was NO Skybirds kit of the Shark. Humble pie for me, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 May 96 12:56:30 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: Blue Rider request Message-ID: <9604038311.AA831153483@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> >On 2 May 96 at 22:10, Mary-Ann/Michael typed diligantly: > >> Until Blue Rider gets it done, a fair number can be found in the Glencoe >> Spad book that was redone as a supplement to the Spad kit. Matt replied: >Yea, but it's in *that* scale...;-) I reply: So what's your point? Basically his point is in a scale that no one without bifocals can even see!! I think that there is an ethereal quality to that scale; "right here there's do-hickey or that thinga-ma-bob, but you can't see it because its sooooo small." One has to respect that kind of dedication to detail. ----Stephen (tongue wearing a hole in my cheek) Tontoni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 96 17:20:11 EDT From: cv3@conted.swann.gatech.edu (Carlos Valdes) To: wwi Subject: Thanks, Shane Message-ID: <199605032120.RAA11435@conted.swann.gatech.edu> Shane, I got the colors article today--many thanks. If anyone else in the States is interested in it, let me know. Carlos ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 15:22:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Erik Pilawskii To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: F.1 102/17 (was: FI/Dr I Color Schemes) Message-ID: > Well, (he said, climbing out on a complete speculative limb), the > preliminary musings go something like this: > > F.1 103/17 had a 'light', streaky rear fuselage aft of the cross > (pp 12 & 13, Squadron "In Action") > > F.1 102/17 had a 'dark' solid rear fuselage aft of the cross > (pp 8 & 14, Squadron "In Action") > > But, when we look at the 'three ground handlers' photo supposedly > of F.1 103/17, we see the F.1 103/17 'face' on the cowling BUT > with what appears to be a DARK rear fuselage aft of the cross. > > So, we have a puzzle. The possibilities seem three: > > 1) The dark rear fuselage in the 'three ground handlers' photo (there's > gotta be a better way to ID photos!) is an optical illusion - it > isn't really there, or, > > 2) Voss's F.1 103/17 had it's rear fuselage -repainted- sometime between > the "In Action" pp 12 & 13 photos and the 'three ground handlers' photo, > or, > > 3) This photo is NOT of F.1 103/17 but rather MvR's F.1 102/17 > and F.1 102/17 had a 'face' painted on its cowl too! Good thinking, Bill. But, I'd like to offer a fourth possibility: 4) Photos attributed to 102/17 and 103/17 have become highly confused and intermingled. Perhaps, it was common for Herr Voss to fly both machines, or even 102/17 after some point. Ok, before you all have a fit, let me explain. The propensity for Jasta pilots to fly numerous machines during WWI is well known; this must have been especially true for the 3 F.Is, seeing how they were shipped up to the front for service evaluations. I imagine most of the pilots would have jockyed to fly one of them. Furthermore, since 102 and 103 remained together (most of the time, anyway), it seems all-the-more likely that they would have been viewed in a more 'interchangeable' manner. It does seem from what I've seen that the 'personalization' of 102 and 103 took some time to appear, during which time, of course, the "ownership" of either a/c might have been very nebulous. Furthermore, it would be extremely easy in any written record, caption, or other note to replace a '2' with a '3' (or vice versa); making, of course, any record of the two even more suspect. To me, it seems completely out of character for v.Richthofen to have carried or allowed this kind of 'impish' face on "his" Triplane. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that he was logging most of his flights in Albatros fighters at this time-- experimental F.I, or not. OTOH, Manfred was very insistent about having his a/c display his trademark-- namely, red. That even a shared, experimental machine was so marked is hardly surprising. Indeed, had he flown either of the two for any period, it is likely that both could have had parts painted in this color. So, where does this leave us? I see three possible sub-theories: 4a) References between 102 and 103/17 are so confused that a re-appraisal is in order to determine just who was flying what and when. Just because Voss was *killed* in 103 does not necessarily mean that this was the only machine he ever flew, nor even the most common one. Indeed, the Germans, themselves, might have unintentionally rationalized the paper trail (such as it is) after the fact to show this condition. (an additional caveat: photos can be misleading, and just because pilot 'A' is standing near/in front of machine 'X', this may in fact mean nothing as regards ownership). 4b) v.Richthofen might have, indeed, flown 102/17 *initially* (thus acquiring red markings), and then have 'traded' it or passed it off, whereupon Voss might have laid claim to the thing and marked it with his own motif. In this case, he might also have marked 103/17 with the same face design, causing both machines to wear it at one point. [an interesting bit of looking-up might be in order here to see what happened to 102 after Voss' death, and if it was re-marked or described further] 4c) Or, most likely in my mind, there may really have been no 'ownership' at all of either a/c until a later date. Thus, we'd have had Richthofen, Voss, et al., flying both machines relatively interchangeably, and 'personalization' of them would have come only after a time. Indeed, I can see where Voss might have "selected" 103/17 as his personal mount *first* (given that he was far more enthusiastic about the type than Richthofen, seemed to fly it more often, and was its leading exponent), quickly thereafter modifying it to taste-- leaving Richthofen to 'claim' 102/17 in the event. Pictures showing Voss in 102/17, then, should be expected (as would Richthofen in a 'plain' 103), either with or without personalized markings (but perhaps not with the face design). Well, my usual lira's worth, anyway.... Doubters, hack away! Cheers, Erik :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "I have not yet, Sir, had the pleasure of your introduction-- and I suspect that I shall not have, still, after we have met...." A.T.Magnuson, M.P. .............................................................................. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 18:28:27 -0400 From: MShan15048@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: Blue Rider request/earthquake in Seattle Message-ID: <960503182826_527692236@emout15.mail.aol.com> Precautions against Earthquakes? Yeah, I live in Texas, which has been described as the most geologically dead area of the country. (and a lot of other things seem to occur in this state at a geological pace, too!) ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 116 *********************