WWI Digest 106 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Off topic question by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 2) Re: Off topic question by "Randy J. Ray" 3) Re: Roland pictures needed by SCLexicat@aol.com 4) Re: Roland pictures needed by "Tomas E. Tirado K" 5) FS: 1/48 SOPWITH PUP OR DHC-1 CHIPMUNK by Jean-Marc@coral.bucknell.edu (by way of BOEKE@bucknell.edu (Joseph R. Boeke)) 6) Re: Re[2]: First Model by gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer ) 7) Re: Re[2]: First Model by lothar@ncw.net (mark) 8) Re: Re[4]: First Model by "S.M. Head" 9) FYI by Mick Fauchon 10) re: FYI by Syclone@itl.net (Brian Bushe) 11) re: FYI by hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) 12) Re: Re[2]: First Model by "Matt Bittner" 13) Re: Re[2]: First Model by "Matt Bittner" 14) Re[2]: Roland pictures needed by stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu 15) Fwd: RIchthofen's Reds by MShan15048@aol.com 16) Fwd: FI/Dr I Color Schemes by MShan15048@aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 13:51:56 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: Re: Off topic question Message-ID: >Do any of our Colorado contingent know a Mike Dunlop? The reason why >I'm asking is because he's selling kits for a Russian company called >VVS Models, and one of these kits is of a Polikarpov I-5. TIA! > > >Matt > Matt, Don't know him. Do you have an address ?? Charles Boulder CO hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 13:42:30 -0600 From: "Randy J. Ray" To: wwi Subject: Re: Off topic question Message-ID: > > Do any of our Colorado contingent know a Mike Dunlop? The reason why > I'm asking is because he's selling kits for a Russian company called > VVS Models, and one of these kits is of a Polikarpov I-5. TIA! > If this is a fellow in Estes Park, CO, then I have heard of him. He was selling copied versions of brass sets from a Russian firm, that had copied On The Mark Models. The owner of OTMM called him, and he no longer markets said product. I would be cautious that the company he is moving product for is not pirating said product from another company. Randy -- ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS Phone: (303)595-2869 Denver, CO rjray@uswest.com I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 15:57:30 -0400 From: SCLexicat@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Re: Roland pictures needed Message-ID: <960423155729_197278970@emout15.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 23/04/96 15:26:44, Matt writes: >Heller Roland C.III. It still boggles the mind. I suspect it must be a re-release of the old Airfix kit which I built in my early years - as I recall it was a cut above other Airfix WWI releases in the Scale of Matt. Simon Craven England ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 21:11:44 -0700 From: "Tomas E. Tirado K" To: wwi Subject: Re: Roland pictures needed Message-ID: <199604240411.VAA09524@adinet.com.uy> At 11:19 23/04/96 -0400, you wrote: >On 23 Apr 96 at 10:59, stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu typed diligantly: > >> I need some data --- interiors, front-n-back --- of the >> Roland CIII. I picked up a Heller (!) in 1/72 (Matt! I can >> do it really!) and just had to buy it. Anyway, I posted to >> rec.models.scale over the weekend and someone responded with >> Windsock thingies.... Anyone aware of other references? >> Cheaper ones too? Anybody want to photocopy theirs and mail >> me (make it worth your while somehow). > >Roland *C.III*? From *Heller*? Gads, that's the first I heard of >the type, and the first I've heard that *Heller* did a WW1 job. >Boggles the mind. No, sorry, no info in my database. Maybe you'll >get lucky and someone else will have something. > >Heller Roland C.III. It still boggles the mind. > >And 1/72nd too! 'Sbout time! ;-) > >Or is the Roland C.III an after war job? > > >Matt >meba@cso.com > Probably this Heller Roland is an old airfix kit. Today, they packed airfix and heller kits under both labels,... but I think airfix kit was a CII?? Tom -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Tomas E. Tirado K - Eng.,45,5 childs, 1/700 Ship modeler, 1/72 WWI, tomasetk@adinet.com.uy WWII Luftwaffe, USNavy WWII to present IPMS-Uruguay active member TT-hobbies owner (only one year in business, but growing everyday) Phone/Fax Nr.(598) 38 58403 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: 20 Apr 1996 16:55:21 -0700 From: Jean-Marc@coral.bucknell.edu (by way of BOEKE@bucknell.edu (Joseph R. Boeke)) To: wwi Subject: FS: 1/48 SOPWITH PUP OR DHC-1 CHIPMUNK Message-ID: <4lbth9$nm5@doc.zippo.com> HI!!!!!!!! I have the AEROCLUB 1/48 kits for sale ,if you are interrested let me know. price are as follow: SOPWITH PUP.............................................$15.(US)+$4(US)POSTAGE DHC.1 CHIPMUNK (INJECTED MDL)......$15.(US)+$4(US)POSTAGE YOU CAN REACH ME AT...jmarcp@zercom.net happy modeling............jmarc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 19:36:40 -0700 From: gspring@ix.netcom.com (Greg Springer ) To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: First Model Message-ID: <199604240236.TAA17368@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >On 23 Apr 96 at 10:34, Greg Springer typed diligantly: > >> The answer is 'A Christmas Story' starring Peter Billingsley, Darin >> McGavin and Melinda Dillon. Take from several short stories in a >> collection by Jean Shepherd entitled 'In God We Trust-All Others Pay >> Cash'. Where's my kewpie doll? > >Now tell that Mad Norseman what the best city is - as portrayed in >the movie. > Well the books were set in Hammond (called 'Hohman') Indiana in the 1930's. The movie was shot in Cleveland. Cleveland???!!! Oh come now! Cheers! Greg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 21:30:58 -0700 From: lothar@ncw.net (mark) To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: First Model Message-ID: <199604240430.VAA05187@bing.ncw.net> > >No no no. "Red Rider BB Gun" and "You'll Shoot Your Eye Out" should >have given it away. Next! > > >Matt Ok, I'll bite..."A Christmas Story". No idea where it was filmed, but should I guess by your statement that it was Omaha? P.S. - Just what the heck <> Jehovahs Waitresses anyway, Matt? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 00:58:28 -0400 From: "S.M. Head" To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[4]: First Model Message-ID: <9604240005.aa27904@mail.iapc.net> Stephen Tontoni waxed eloquently: > I don't recall my first model. I do remember that a couple > of them went down hard when my brother got a BB gun. >.... We did the same to my model of the Bismark, but that was > outside. I wonder what my Dad thought about us destroying > these things that he bought and we put so much time into > building... Hey now wait a minute! It was ME who dealt the Bismark the death blow in the "Battle of Municiple Ditch K1" To my knowledge she still lies there, filled with copper and crayfish! ;) Scott "One-Eyed" Head Statement- "The internet is like an unending tree of sprue, linking one component to the next..." -- Newsgroup post Reply: "That's stretching it." -- Shot Cadet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:57:13 +1000 (EST) From: Mick Fauchon To: WW1Av Subject: FYI Message-ID: Hi, guys, Don't try to contact us Aussies to-morrow: it's *Anzac Day*.....so we'll all be having a holiday [i.e. the 25th]. See ya all later, Mick. -- -- Mick Fauchon | Internet: ulmjf@dewey.newcastle.edu.au Reference Section, Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 215861 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M M M Tasmanian Devil: "#@%!&^*%%...!#@!&**%^@@#$#-+*+*&##@...!!" M M M M Yosemite Sam : "Cut out that Army talk!..Yer in the Navy now!" M M M MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 09:45:36 +0100 From: Syclone@itl.net (Brian Bushe) To: wwi Subject: re: FYI Message-ID: <9604240845.AA06259@hades> Hi, guys, Don't try to contact us Aussies to-morrow: it's *Anzac Day*.....so we'll all be having a holiday [i.e. the 25th]. See ya all later, Mick. any other countries have wwi inspired public holidays? brian bushe syclone@itl.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 04:10:50 -0700 From: hartc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Charles Hart) To: wwi Subject: re: FYI Message-ID: > Hi, guys, > > Don't try to contact us Aussies to-morrow: it's *Anzac >Day*.....so we'll all be having a holiday [i.e. the 25th]. > > See ya all later, > > Mick. > > > any other countries have wwi inspired public holidays? > > brian bushe > > syclone@itl.net In the US November 11 is observed as what is now called Veteran's Day, though it is sometimes still referred to as Armistice Day. Charles hartc@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 06:38:04 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: First Model Message-ID: <199604240642.GAA17868@cso.com> On 23 Apr 96 at 22:36, Greg Springer typed diligantly: > Well the books were set in Hammond (called 'Hohman') Indiana in the > 1930's. The movie was shot in Cleveland. Cleveland???!!! Oh come > now! That's right. Cleveland! If nothing else, because that's where I'm from. But hey, it's the only town I know of that went from a burning river, to a total and complete make over to be a shining part on Lake Erie. The North Coast. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 06:38:04 -0500 From: "Matt Bittner" To: wwi Subject: Re: Re[2]: First Model Message-ID: <199604240642.GAA17860@cso.com> On 24 Apr 96 at 0:29, mark typed diligantly: > Ok, I'll bite..."A Christmas Story". No idea where it was filmed, but > should I guess by your statement that it was Omaha? > > P.S. - Just what the heck <> Jehovahs Waitresses anyway, Matt? Not Omaha, but Cleveland. And the jehova waitresses is a band that has close friends in it. Not only a great band, but the best band name I know of! Hmm...let's see if I can tie this into WW1...Well, I think I can tie it into plastics...The Region 4 regional is being held in Toledo, only an hour+ drive from Cleveland...There! Did I do it? ;-) Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 07:28:11 PST From: stonto@seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu To: wwi Subject: Re[2]: Roland pictures needed Message-ID: <9603248303.AA830356289@SCCCGATE.seaccc.sccd.ctc.edu> Apologies to all: I looked at the box last night and it was indeed a Roland C-II not a III. I'm pretty new to this WWI stuff and that Roland is a new type to me so II looked as good as III. This does look a bit better than most Airfix releases, but I can see the family resemblence. I would assume that you are all right; it is a Heller re-release of the Airfix kit with new instructions etc etc. Sorry to get any of you too excited without reason. ----Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:53:34 -0400 From: MShan15048@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Fwd: RIchthofen's Reds Message-ID: <960424125334_520990231@emout15.mail.aol.com> --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: RIchthofen's Reds Date: 96-04-23 18:46:37 EDT From: MShan15048 To: AEW@unh.edu Again, jumping boldly into the fray that angels fear, a few comments on the constant theme. To ask about "Richtoffen's Triplane" begs the question, which one? Richtoffen documented combats in five triplanes (counting the FI 102/17 pre-production model). In a Scale Aircraft Modelling (vol.15, 4, pp. 164-5, January, 1993) Ian Huntley describes general application of red to MvR's planes. I've also added other references to come to this list. FI 102/17 Factory finish, white or metal cowling, white rectangles under all crosses, white rudder. Dr. I 152/17 Red from immediately behind cockpit on top decking, from where white rectangle would have started on sides of fuselage, under-fuselage from same point as sides, full tail, including rudder, cowling, wheel hubs (Outside only?), top of uppermost wing, all wing struts, maybe landing gear struts. The rest of the plane in factory finish. Eventually, the entire plane was painted red, except for a white rudder, and given straight-sided balkencruz, but this appears to be after his major use of the plane (a personal backup mount?) Plane was preserved in Berlin Zeughaus Museum in this condition until destroyed in WWII. Dr. I 477/17 Red nose, rear fuselage, wheel hubs, tail, and upper surface of wing. Not well photographed. Dr. I 127/17 As for 152/17 except-- Photographs tend to show this plane in an intermediate state. Rudder was painted red, but wing and fuselage cross backgrounds left white. Fuselage red appeared to be from leading edge of white rectangles on top-decking of this plane. One picture suggests that the underside of the fuselage was not initially painted, nor the tail underside. This is somewhat at odds with MvR's statements to his mother that he wanted the ground troops to see his plane protecting them. Dr. I 425/17 Red overall, with a white rudder. Crosses were changed from curved-sided to Balkencruz straight-sided within the last few days of MvR's life. Proportions of crosses on the stocky side, never the long, narrow proportions of those seen on A. von Raben's Dr. I or most DVII's. Cowling and wheel hubs were red, not white as sometimes shown. MvR is also known to have flown Dr. I 525/17 from Jasta 6 on a tour of the whole Jdge. I. This plane was well photographed, and shows the black/white lengthwise tail stripes of the Jasta. The cowl is dark, maybe black, and the plane is otherwise very standard. This plane may have later been crashed by Hpt. W. Reinhard in one of the upper wing failure accidents that always plagued the triplane. MvR certainly would have flown any plane he chose, and may have flown several others on combat missions where he did not file a claim. Where the white backgrounds were painted out, on 152/17 and 127/17, a narrow (5cm) white border was left around the cross. Officially, the rudders were to remain white, but the instructions did not state it clearly, and they were painted to the narrow surround on 152/17, 127/17, and, presumably, 477/17. The lower wing crosses may not have had their backgrounds painted out until the red extended to those areas, if ever. The painting out of the white with red left a tonal difference between it and the areas painted over the camouflage, most visible in direct light as a lighter area. The color of the red is controversial. Most descriptions state a "Bright Vermillion". However, MvR's chief mechanic had a pass to go find stocks of red paint. Pure Cadmium Red pigments were at a premium in blockade-starved Germany, but MvR's fame, wealth, and overall status may have given him better supplies. Probably the red varied in quality and color depending on scavenging. When the Nazi's reconstructed the Luftwaffe, their "RIchthofen Red" markings were a bright fire red, slightly on the pinkish side with a very small amount of orange, matched pretty well by Humbol #60 Matt Scarlet with a spot of white (roughly in the range 10p red : 1p white to 15p red :1p white, depending on scale effect and fading and taste.) or by a mix of 3p Testors Model Masters Italian Red to 1p TMM Guards Red for a gloss finish. Ian Huntley suggests that reds on many other planes may have been in the barn-red, rust-red, purple-red, and crimson ranges based on less dear pigments. Good luck, and happy modeling. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:54:08 -0400 From: MShan15048@aol.com To: wwi Subject: Fwd: FI/Dr I Color Schemes Message-ID: <960424125407_198011388@emout10.mail.aol.com> --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: RE: FI/Dr I Color Schemes Date: 96-04-23 14:16:00 EDT From: MShan15048 To: AEW@unh.edu If a new voice might pop into the discussion. I have only found three photos that clearly show the fuselage of FI 103/17, two on the occasion of Crown Prince Carl's August 1917 visit to Jasta 10. In all three photos, the fuselage of the plane looks washed out or lighter in tone than the nose area and visible portions of the wings. Two photos, one clearly showing the FI 103/17 serial, both show a darker streaked band immediately behind the white fuselage cross surround, then a much more faintly streaked fuselage aft of that. In addition, the cross background is rather streaky forward of the actual cross in the photo with the serial clearly showing. Those are the facts. Interpretation is the whole thing from there. Could Voss have been starting to personalize "his" plane? None of the photos show a difference in tone between the cowling and the streaking on the forward fuselage, yet this after fuselage lightness in tone and much reduced streakiness is very obvious in the photos. Another possibility, based on Anthony Fokker's known tendency toward frugality, is that the fuselage of this plane, destined for a top ace who would be allowed to mark it to his whim, was not given a very thorough finish. Voss was a very engineering minded and gifted pilot, a predecessor to the modern test pilot. There is some photo evidence that he had visited and helped the Fokker staff with the preproduction testing, and may have actually flown FI 103/17 at the factory. It is known that he changed the engine to a 110Hp LeRhone from a British-morked Nieuport, what other things he did would most likely have been to improve performance, rather than external. My suggestion is that the finish was not particularly important, that the planes were rushed to the airfield for Voss and MvR (Who, remember, was on limited duty at the time) and so the plane was not as carefully painted as it might have been. The fading or light original application, possibly modified by the beginnings of a repaint as Voss took over "His" personal aircraft, could have led to a greyish-blue rear fuselage that looked lighter from combat distance than close inspection. In other words, the plane was blue-grey with an olive streaking, but the unevenness of the streaking made the plane look more blue (reflecting evening sun's rays, even silvery) to McCudden, but causing a rather jaded inspector of the crash to call it overall streaky olive camouflage. ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 106 *********************