WWI Digest 2164 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Swastikas by "Matthew Bittner" 2) ALPS printers and ot request by THOMAS SOLINSKI 3) Re: MoS AI revelation by KarrArt@aol.com 4) Re: MoS AI revelation by "Matthew Bittner" 5) RE: coming attractions by "John Glaser" 6) Re: Alamo Squadron Fiesta XIX by KarrArt@aol.com 7) OT in El Paso??? by "John Glaser" 8) Schwarzlose by "Matthew Bittner" 9) Re: Schwarzlose by "Bob Pearson" 10) Re: Schwarzlose by Ernest Thomas 11) RE: Schwarzlose by Shane Weier 12) RE: Schwarzlose by Shane Weier 13) A pox on both yer hexes!, was: Unique A-H Camo? by skarver@banet.net 14) Mirror, mirror..., was: Re: Roundel... by skarver@banet.net 15) Re: Schwarzlose by Suvoroff@aol.com 16) Re: Schwarzlose by "Bob Pearson" 17) Re: A pox on both yer hexes!, was: Unique A-H Camo? by "Bob Pearson" 18) Re: Here is Squadron's 800 number by "DAVID BURKE" 19) Re: A pox on both yer hexes!, was: Unique A-H Camo? by "Bob Pearson" 20) RE: Alamo Squadron Fiesta XIX by "dfernet0" 21) Oops, sorry, was: Re: A pox on both yer hexes! by skarver@banet.net 22) Rigging ideas. by Robert Horton ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:49:30 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Swastikas Message-ID: <200002272052.MAA07348@magpie.a001.sprintmail.com> I'm finally entering the C&C(US) issues I have into my database, and I came across a couple of oddities the list was talking about in the recent past. The first are pictures of aircraft bearing the swastika. SSW's, Dr.I, SPAD's, Pfalz D.III, *Voisin*, Breguet, Albatros'. All pretty cool. The second is a piece on Max Holtzem, with a photo of him getting into his Pfalz D.III. Both of these in C&C(US) 12/2. Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:06:42 -0600 From: THOMAS SOLINSKI To: WW-I List Subject: ALPS printers and ot request Message-ID: <38B991E2.AA569FF6@home.com> Hi listers A while back there was a thread on buying an ALPS printer for someone. Who were we going to by this for and how did your experiments turn out? And,,,sorry way ot. Does anyone have a 1/72 Bell X-2 kit you would be willing to part with? Please contact me off list TIA Tom S ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:23:55 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: MoS AI revelation Message-ID: <31.1c5416a.25eaefeb@aol.com> In a message dated 2/27/00 11:23:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, tbittners@sprintmail.com writes: << The majority of the cockpit of the Nie.28 is light gray because the cockpit - up to just behind the seat - is metal! >> Hmmm......almost every source I've seen describes this as wood or some type of organic composition board. RK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:50:59 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Re: MoS AI revelation Message-ID: <200002272153.NAA06910@raven.a001.sprintmail.com> On Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:29:07 -0500 (EST), KarrArt@aol.com wrote: > Hmmm......almost every source I've seen describes this as wood or some type > of organic composition board. Cripes! There I go again. First the Nieuport 17 front panels, and now this. Gads...the brain...... Well, it was still painted light gray. ;-) Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:42:26 -0600 From: "John Glaser" To: Subject: RE: coming attractions Message-ID: <000101bf8173$edd6e950$8d00000a@johnghome> Won't my little family be happy when I bring home *MORE* books! -JG (Running out of room for those he has - OT & computer related) -----Original Message----- From: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu [mailto:wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu]On Behalf Of Carlos Valdes Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 1:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: coming attractions Take a look here at a coule of upcoming book covers. Carlos http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1855329603.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1855329611.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:38:11 EST From: KarrArt@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Alamo Squadron Fiesta XIX Message-ID: In a message dated 2/27/00 6:59:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, tbittners@sprintmail.com writes: << > Ok, to answer off-line questions, my placings today..... > > "Origins to 1938" First Pegasus Etrich Taube (ala Dennis) > "Vacforms" Second VLE Fokker Spinne Congratulations! It's really cool to see a list member place in a contest. Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm >> Way to go Richard! RK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:25:39 -0600 From: "John Glaser" To: "WW1 Mail List $E-mail$" Subject: OT in El Paso??? Message-ID: <000201bf818a$baa48f80$8d00000a@johnghome> Anything OT to do in El Paso TX? I'm heading there next weekend with the family & imagine I'll get my fill of historic missions & homes fairly quickly. I know that the HUGE Ft Bliss is there. Wonder if they have a museum? Can any of the mid or west Texas contingent help? TIA. - JG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:16:22 -0600 From: "Matthew Bittner" To: "wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu" Subject: Schwarzlose Message-ID: <200002280319.TAA25541@magpie.a001.sprintmail.com> E and I were wondering. Which A-H aircraft used the Schwarzlose? H-B StarStrutter "baby coffin", but what about the rest? Matt Bittner http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:36:00 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Schwarzlose Message-ID: <200002280338.TAA07748@mail.rapidnet.net> AFAIK All of them. ... there are shots in the hardcover die Albatros Oeffag book showing them Bob ---------- >From: "Matthew Bittner" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Schwarzlose >Date: Sun, 27 Feb, 2000, 7:24 PM > > E and I were wondering. Which A-H aircraft used the Schwarzlose? > H-B StarStrutter "baby coffin", but what about the rest? > > > Matt Bittner > http://www.geocities.com/~ipmsfortcrook > http://pease1.sr.unh.edu/misc/ww1fr.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jan 1980 22:12:19 -0600 From: Ernest Thomas To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Schwarzlose Message-ID: <12D6CA22.3DD025FD@bellsouth.net> Bob Pearson wrote: > AFAIK All of them. ... there are shots in the hardcover die Albatros Oeffag > book showing them Were they all enclosed in those peculiar looking housings?(sorry, as a parent, I just hate the term "baby coffins"). E. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:18:52 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Schwarzlose Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1D72@mimhexch.mim.com.au> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ernest Thomas [mailto:ethomas6@bellsouth.net] > Sent: Monday, 28 February 2000 14:19 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Schwarzlose > > > > > Bob Pearson wrote: > > > AFAIK All of them. ... there are shots in the hardcover die > Albatros Oeffag > > book showing them > > Were they all enclosed in those peculiar looking > housings?(sorry, as a parent, > I just hate the term "baby coffins"). > E. > > ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:21:17 +1000 From: Shane Weier To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'" Subject: RE: Schwarzlose Message-ID: <65C968E11318D311B0BD0060B06865CDBD1D73@mimhexch.mim.com.au> E > Were they all enclosed in those peculiar looking > housings? No, on the OEF Albatrosse they were installed either under on on the fuselage decking just like the German LMG08. I think that the separate housing was designed pending a suitable synchroniation mechanism. Of course, I don't have St 'arry's book here, so I may be wrong ! Shane ************************************************************** The information contained in this E-Mail is confidential and is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you receive this E-Mail in error, any use, distribution or copying of this E-Mail is not permitted. You are requested to forward unwanted E-Mail and address any problems to the MIM Holdings Limited Help Desk. E-Mail: helpdesk@mim.com.au or phone: Australia 07 3833 8042. ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:35:38 -0500 From: skarver@banet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: A pox on both yer hexes!, was: Unique A-H Camo? Message-ID: <38B9ED0A.EB1ADA07@banet.net> So another mystery is solved--almost. Small painted repeating irregular (speaking purely geometrically) hexagons as opposed to the large painted regular hexagons of regular A-H geometric camo or the 4- or 5-color printed fabric irregular polygons of regular Imperial German camo--aka "the much loved lozenge" of Peter Leonard--that do not quite meet the characterization of "unique" as originally hypothesized by Shane Weier since Bob Pearson notes that he "did two [profiles] in similar patterns .. both of Flik 60" and therefore best called "experimental" or even better, "curious," as Shane did later. Question remaining for Bob: what sources for the other two aircraft? To which must be added: what source for the colors used? Thanks to all who responded, Stef ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 23:27:12 -0500 From: skarver@banet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Mirror, mirror..., was: Re: Roundel... Message-ID: <38B9F91F.AAFB1B98@banet.net> "Mirror, mirror on the wall, whose the toughest cop of all?" or to paraphrase the wisdom of Pogo, "We done met da color po-lice, and he be us'n." It seems to this observer, that the problem--for modelers and reconstructors--is not the absence of technological dream machines such as Michael Kendix's "Light gun," which despite Shane Weier's fastidious, over-parametrized poo-pooing could provide useful sprectrographic waveform measurements, but the lack of original sample maaterial against which to measure with any yardstick, whether the hyperbole of the light gun or the Mark 1 eyeball. In purely practical terms, however, the most generally available and sufficiently invariant measuring tool for modelers is model paint, and color references should be pegged to specific colors, with variations therefrom provided as specific mixtures, not the vague "a little bluer than," "a little darker than," etc. (The referencing of FS colors--which were never intended to provide a system of color description anyway--in similar constructions is truly amusing.) Regards, Stef ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 00:46:12 EST From: Suvoroff@aol.com To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Schwarzlose Message-ID: Early Aircraft Armaments shows a lot of different installations for the "Smokeless". All sorts of variants on flexible mounts, the Overwing Box Mount (as we will call it for Ernest the Squeamish) and firing synchronized past the engine. Indeed, from reading his chapter on AH rifle-calibre weapons, it appears that the K.u.K.'s hardly used anything else in any quantity. Yours, James D. Gray ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 21:52:53 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: Schwarzlose Message-ID: <200002280610.WAA12336@mail.rapidnet.net> Only on the HB D/C.I, and a few other types .. the Lloyd C.V comes to mind Bob ---------- >From: Ernest Thomas >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: Schwarzlose >Date: Sun, 27 Feb, 2000, 8:19 PM > > > > Bob Pearson wrote: > >> AFAIK All of them. ... there are shots in the hardcover die Albatros Oeffag >> book showing them > > Were they all enclosed in those peculiar looking housings?(sorry, as a parent, > I just hate the term "baby coffins"). > E. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:08:26 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: A pox on both yer hexes!, was: Unique A-H Camo? Message-ID: <200002280611.WAA12347@mail.rapidnet.net> The others are sourced from C&C(GB)19/4 .. the colours came from Dr Martin O'Connors series on A-H colours [C&C(GB)17 to C&C(INT) 20 or so]. Colours I used were the same five as in the 'normal' regular hex, in both dark and light patterns. . . with each segment having three colours (the third colour was common to both) - same colours as my profile MIZZI on the rear cover of OTF 12/1. I do say that the oblong pattern is speculative on my profiles. . be kind .. I did them 9 years ago. .. Bob ---------- > Question remaining for Bob: what sources for the other two aircraft? To which > must be added: what source for the colors used? > > Thanks to all who responded, > Stef > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 00:13:13 -0600 From: "DAVID BURKE" To: Subject: Re: Here is Squadron's 800 number Message-ID: <005301bf81b2$e9139640$cb81aec7@dora9sprynet.com> And blaming them for cottage >industries as mis-named as "Hi-Tech" for the failure of amateurs to stick to >their production schedules is a bit "off" as you on the other side of the >pond put it. T'would be acceptable, except that it also includes announcements for products by major manufacturers too! I underline my position with the following quote from Abraham Lincoln: "The hen is the wisest of all the animals, for she never cackles until after she has laid". DB Satisfied Squadron customer except for the mis-advertising and toll calls. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:29:18 -0800 From: "Bob Pearson" To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Re: A pox on both yer hexes!, was: Unique A-H Camo? Message-ID: <200002280631.WAA13056@mail.rapidnet.net> My oblong hex Aviatik D.I profiles were from photos in C&C(GB) 19/4, and the Schiemer die Albatros book. Colours are based on Dr O'Connor's series in C&C(GB/INT). They are similar to the Aviatik D.I I profiled on the rear cover of OTF 12/1 .. just in oblongs instead of 'regular' hex. There are five colours in two patterns of three colours .. with the fifth colour being common to both. Both are also marked as speculative. Bob > Question remaining for Bob: what sources for the other two aircraft? To which > must be added: what source for the colors used? > > Thanks to all who responded, > Stef > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:34:25 -0300 From: "dfernet0" To: Subject: RE: Alamo Squadron Fiesta XIX Message-ID: <012501bf81df$c3fb9c40$4640a8c0@ssp.salud.rosario.gov.ar> Great perfomance, Richard! Keep your excellent work and winning prizes! D. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:34:25 -0500 From: skarver@banet.net To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu, Bob Pearson Subject: Oops, sorry, was: Re: A pox on both yer hexes! Message-ID: <38BA6B51.E55F5FBB@banet.net> Bob Pearson kindly replied withe: > The others are sourced from C&C(GB)19/4 .. the colours came from Dr Martin > O'Connors series on A-H colours [C&C(GB)17 to C&C(INT) 20 or so]. Colours I > used were the same five as in the 'normal' regular hex, in both dark and > light patterns. . . with each segment having three colours (the third colour > was common to both) - same colours as my profile MIZZI on the rear cover of > OTF 12/1. I do say that the oblong pattern is speculative on my profiles. . > and added > be kind .. I did them 9 years ago. .. Oops, or should that be double-oops? My overly clever allusion to Mercutio's dying imprecation seems to have hit a target it was never aimed at (now that I think about it, something of Mercutio's problem to begin with.) .. Apologies, sir, if it seemed the reference was to your two profiles. Never. Sheesh, hoisted by my own pox-ard! Thanks for the info, Stef ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:43:51 -0600 From: Robert Horton To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu Subject: Rigging ideas. Message-ID: <38BAA5C7.66C58366@netexpress.net> To respond to some remarks a couple of weeks ago re; rigging two wingy thingys. I have used stainless steel wire on a couple of them with fairly good results...but the source of the material may be of help...at any hobby shop pick up a spool of model airplane U-Control wire...it usually comes at about 35 to 24 foot lengths...two strands to a pkg. This must be the seven strand twisted or woven type. My notes say that I had gotten two thicknesses, .012" and .008". You unwind and cut off about 2 to 3 feet off one end. Using a No.11 blade you pick at the end until you should have 7 small frayed wires. You will need to grasp one end of the wire cable in one hand and one of the strand in the other and finger roll the strand off. As you do this one by one you finally end up with one very straight center wire that is the useable piece. Again according to my notes the .012" cable will yield a center piece that is .004" and the .008 cable will yield a .002" wire ( approx.) The only down side of this procedure is that you play hell with a pair of diagonal cutters when you cut this stuff to interwing rigging length, but any use of ss wire is going to be tough on tools. If this is an old war weary hint I apologise for taking up space...RLH ------------------------------ End of WWI Digest 2164 **********************